- Todd Bowden
- Hanover, PA
- United States
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Is atheism a religion?
There has been a lot of debate over whether atheism can be classified as a religion, or whether it is excluded from being a religion.
What do you think?
Mathieu Guerin
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
and
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices
It's curious to me that the former is the complete antithesis of atheism, whereas the latter holds more resemblance to atheism. From a semantic analysis, we can simply deduce that a new word may be required to define atheism in the scope of other belief systems. How exciting!
Although to be politically active as an atheist sort of means that you are following it religiously... You are willing to preach it. I don't think that atheism can really be classified as a religion in that it lacks much of what institutionalized religions have such as;
An institution
A set of rituals/traditions
Historical character
Official scripture
Professions (unless you consider all scientists to be atheists, knowing that many would be appalled)
Commandments
Moreover, I don't think that humanity is mature enough for atheism yet. You cannot make someone yield to you if they choose not to. That is a major pillar that the "free-world" is constructed upon. To violate human rights would be a great failure for atheists. Better to keep at it and let time do it's work. More like a monk than a preacher, so to speak.
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
Comment deleted
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
all fathers should be respected.
I mean following religious beliefs of fathers with no research.
"All forms of theism make claims that are unfalsifiable."
claim is not important. proof is important.
I agree you. but please do not forget death and until the afterlife is not disproved please consider at least possibility of Hell and God and do not speak certain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
About beliefs Fathers are perhaps true or perhaps false.
Each human individually should seek truth regardless of beliefs of others like father.
Also mothers. Take it easy. Usually mothers follow father. Father has more power in family.
"Actually, you make all sorts of claims where the only "proof" comes from the Koran."
No, I use rational and scientific proofs also. But I consider koran 100% truth. I have done a long research on Koran and you do not know my background research about Koran. But I can challenge you In Koran. I claim Koran has not human source and is from God. Can you disprove it?
"There is absolutely no objective evidence that any humans in the past had longer life spans than we have today."
yes. but it is not also disproved or impossible by science. Do you think long life is impossible when before science?
"factors that limit biological longevity now also applied 5000 and 10000 years ago. "
Agree. But there is always exceptions. You can see exceptions also in animals and nature. Nature is amazing and has many exceptions.
Also if we assume God created human then easily can give long life to any human wants.
Important note is that science has not proved long life is impossible.
"The Koran does not do this in any meaningful way. It makes predictions about existence after death, but there is absolutely no way to test these predictions. Such claims are absolutely useless."
Disagree. Have you read Koran? If no what you say? Its like I write a critical review about Matrix movie before I watch it.
Koran has any thing. From medicine to food and agriculture, chemistry and all fields.
Peter Law 30+
"There is absolutely no objective evidence that any humans in the past had longer life spans than we have today."
Depends where you look .
http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/the-truth-about-ancient-man-dr-jack-cuozzo/vQJeP51PQxLcOI3pZJwUsw
:-)
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Peter Law 30+
1Hr. to notice the post, watch a 1hr. video, and reach an objective conclusion on the evidence. You have my admiration.
:-)
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Peter Law 30+
I hear what you say, but is it not the same for the materialist ? Everything must be explained in material terms; there is no room for anything spiritual or non-material. So IF a spiritual dimension does exist, then the materialist is not going to find it. Surely then it is wiser to keep an open mind on the possibilities.
For the record; I was 35 when I first encountered the bible. Until then my pursuit of knowledge had been material via evolution, panspermia etc. I set out to prove the bible wrong to 'educate' my newly baptised wife. The bible is just too intricate to have been written without 'outside' help. So in many ways my trust is grounded in material facts. It seems to be an observable fact that neanderthal youth's skulls have the same configuration as pre-birth children of today. This could be interpreted as an elongated life cycle in humans of the time. There is also a lot of stuff about giant creatures which may well be big because they lived for longer, but I guess if it didn't fit the evolution hypothesis you wouldn't be interested.
:-)
Matthieu Miossec 100+
How is it possible for you to have not encountered the Bible in 35 years, is the part of Scotland you live in that remote? All sounds made up to me.
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
"If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him."
who can be sure he will judge you on your merits?
God judge based his own rules. and has min req. terms for entering Judgement. many go direct to hell.
prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said:
the first thing the servant is asked is prayer. if accepted the other is accepted and if rejected all other is rejected.
also God said:
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:80
and Hell needs fuel:
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:24
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/66:6
problem is it should be full:
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/32:13
the God described in Atheist's Wager is only a deity. not true God.
if any believe in such God will have such reply at judgement day:
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/16:27
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/41:47
please do not make your beliefs based on some joke. is there any proof that If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him? this God is made by human and is not real God. such God not exist.
if you want to assume God at least assume God in Koran.
"The universe is 13.75 billion years old. "
God has 12000 universes.
"If there actually is a single God capable of creating the entire universe, why would it go about setting up these conditions and then decide to make humans comply with capricious laws recorded in books thousands of years ago "
the last updated (Koran) is 14000 years ago.
because God was alone and wanted to be known. (God is not human nor material)
"that are completely unverifiable through any objective means? "
what?! proof about Koran? [again claims with no evidence.]
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
what you mean? (my language). all human always had message of God. why few?
before Adam and Eve other humans existed.
what is withdraw?
message of God is available in Koran.
"Why create Hell?"
all the creation is to God be known. with no evil Good will not be known.
God created good attributes and human and free will and Satan to "God be known"
God is extreme good and this is way of God to be known. God created goods same as his attributes to be known by his attributes.
"Why would such an incredibly powerful being be such a jerk?"
to be known.
"But take some time and study primitive cultures and you will see they all had various superstitions like these. "
agree. they are deities.
"The Hebrew Bible and the Koran are based on the myths of primitive people. I'm certain of it."
agree about today deviated and changed Bible. not not about Koran. even one word of Koran is not changed.
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:79
God promised protects Koran:
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:79
none of great Arab poems could make a poem like Koran and no one could prove an error in Koran during 1400 years and never will can in future.
please do not compare Koran with today Bible and Torah.
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
"They use Confiration Bias to reject objective evidence that contradicts their world view,"
who rejected objective evidence?
and what objective evidence? you call hypothesis evidence? evolution is a theory and includes some hypothesis. all the hypothesis are true?
"then I will accuse him of being irrational and immoral."
why God is irrational. God clearly said his laws in Koran.
"and then taking pleasure in punishing his creation"
why you think God takes pleasure in punishing his creation? who said this?
"And you bow down and worship this abomination? Are you that fearful?
"
yes. when I could not die. I do not fear.
"I do not have fear that I will be judged after death by such a god"
are you sure no judgement day exist? proof?
"There is no need to have fear about fairy tales".
risk. its like insurance.
"and they have no power over me."
yes. but death and God have.
"You believe it is the only perfectly transcribed message from God/Allah. "
all holy books of God are truth. but today only the original version of Koran is available.
"Before that we can be very sure that there was no written language attributed to God."
perhaps. I do not know. so what? it can be oral by prophet.
"then the messages people had before 2700 years ago would still be available today,"
many things destroy during history.
we have our own message. (Koran)
important is God always sends his message to humans in any way. book or oral or in sleep dream or other way.
"There are no such objective messages."
yes. not available today. but not mean not exist in past.
"are completely dependent on the existence of these holy texts."
agree. today we have these for start. but more is available if you really want.
"It is completely illogical to believe that "humans always had message of God". "
why?
God send 124000 messenger.
"Try to imagine what you would think about the world if the Koran did not exist."
useless. but Koran exist.
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
today Torah yes. but Koran no.
how you can prove your claim about Koran?
have you read Koran?
" Without them your entire world view about God collapses."
yes.
without your brain you will collapse.
you can not neglect existence of Koran.
Mathieu Guerin
I have seen time and time again, on the internet as well as magazines like National Geographic, articles concerning evolution. Moreover there are innumerable journals on evolution available through universities around the world in many languages.
I regret to inform you that, by observing very old skeletons (Ardi and Lucy), archeologists and biologists have come together to show that there is a distinct pattern that changes over time in the anatomy of these animals. They slowly become Homo Sapiens like us. Also, comparative DNA analysis of chimpanzees and humans show that we share nearly 95% of our genetic make up. An abundance of evidence has been collected solidifying the theory of evolution. If you do your own research you will connect with this information on evolution because it is now accessible to everyone on the planet who has a computer.
The reason why we use the word "theory" is not because we don't have any proof. It's because we understand that no one is correct, but some can be more correct than others. We are just being polite. To claim that we would be "correct" and that everyone else is "incorrect" would be fascism... like the Nazi's. Think of it like chess; there are no correct moves, every move is wrong. The way you win is you pick the least wrong move!
You are very correct, however in saying that we should not neglect the existence of the Koran. Nor should we neglect the existence of The Torah, The Holy Bible, or any sacred scripture ever made because they are invariably important parts of what it means to be a human even today. Atheists are so quick to dismiss religion as fallacy, which disturbs me.
Religion is not about truth, it's about living your life according to a code that human ancestors put together that should guide us into coexisting, because you want to be happy, not correct.
MOST IMPORTANT;
You said;
"When I could not die. I do not fear."
I say;
I fear and I will die. Because I am a human being. It's okay.
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
please it is a hypothesis that is part of evolution theory.
"comparative DNA analysis of chimpanzees and humans show that we share nearly 95% of our genetic make up."
Even if 100% similar , still they have not WISDOM. Is wisdom found in DNA?
http://www.ted.com/conversations/2353/what_is_wisdom_and_can_wisdom.html
"An abundance of evidence has been collected solidifying the theory of evolution."
that theory is composed of some hypothesis. About natural selection agree. But about transform of one specie to another specie can you show only one evidence? For example during past 300 years of research of evolution did a dog transform to a wolf or such example?
"If you do your own research you will connect with this information on evolution"
I have done and do.
"The reason why we use the word "theory" "
What is difference of theory and hypothesis?
How many hypothesis is inside evolution theory? All are accepted by scientific community at the same level or certainty?
Also that theory has no idea about how life started. Only how evolved.
"Religion is not about truth, "
At least about Islam I disagree.
"it's about living your life according to a code that human ancestors put together that should guide us into coexisting, because you want to be happy, not correct. "
Please do not conclude about religion quick.
True religion is from God. But decimated and human made or human changed religions are such you said.
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/2:79
Matthieu Miossec 100+
James Walker 30+
Or at least, Atheism does not have the common characteristics of a Religion, just for example....
- A prophet (s)
- Commandments passed down from God via said prophet
- Sacred texts
- Denial of the individual in favour of the commonwealth
- Pre-determinism
- Services, rituals etc
- A place of worship or defined format of worship
Etc
+Edited, Matt ;)
Salim Solaiman 50+
If the answer is yes then other elements of religion can be compared.
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Thadeus Frei
Matthieu Miossec 100+
James Hart
Matthieu Miossec 100+
James Hart
Rory File
Matthieu Miossec 100+
You can't really say "saving people" is beneficial unless they are truly saved (which they're not).
Jim Moonan 30+
Atheism is not a religion. It's oxymoronic to even think it is. Religions are institutions.
James Hart
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Yes, our goal is to get everyone depressed like we are (/sarcasm).
anthony bruni 30+
Matthieu Miossec 100+
James Hart
anthony bruni 30+
Yes there are quotes that are outdated in the bible. Leviticus 19:27 tells what haircut a man should have. Funny that most people ignore this rule but will harp on Lev 20:13 when it comes to promoting homophobia. As for the new testament there are a few vague phrases that one could use to back up homophobia, but they could be taken in other ways. As for other religious traditions many strains of Hinduism is fine with homosexuality.
What I 'm saying is its a bit more complicated than you are making it out to be. Religions grow out of specific cultures and take on their world view. Any philosophy that that is numerous centuries old will have some dead branches that need pruning. A thousand years from now I hope some of our laws are seen as barbaric and immature (hopefully sooner). That doesn't justify saying our culture was a failure, but a work in progress.
Atheist are for the most part progressive minded people, who give healthy amounts to charity, volunteer their time, and keep healthy ethical boundaries. I just think its a stretch to say its a causation of atheism. We are more connected through technology which seems to be the real catalyst for humanism, and whatever belief/non believes we have / don't have are outgrowths of that.
Derek Payne
Rory File
Abhiram Lohit 10+
Proof of your existence is proof of knowledge of SOME existence. You are certain that SOMETHING exists. This is gnosticism. That SOMETHING might not be the Holy Trinity, or Allah or Yahweh or Vishnu. This is atheism. That SOMETHING might be only YOU!! ;)
Abhiram Lohit 10+
To answer this question, I would have to first say that the word "religion" which is derived as "re+ligare" meaning to "reconnect" or "stay connected" is vague in its scope. It primarily implies an adherence to a set of social and personal rituals. Now, historically one or the other deity has been the inspiration for maintaining these social and personal rituals. Belief and practice have been historically conjoined to one another. Besides, adherence to a historical religion has other expectations associated with it. Among them are good citizenry, humanitarianism, charity, etc.
However, that need not be the case. For example, in Yoga there are a set of social and personal disciplinarian rituals but there is no inspiring deity. A Yogi or a person adhering to Yogic rituals might choose to be a good citizen or humanitarian because he feels good about it or he hopes reciprocation from others.
Atheism refers to a belief that a deity is not the inspiration for living in a certain manner. Atheists might have their own "First Cause" to explain the origin of the universe, etc. That "First Cause" is their deity.
Just as Yoga is not a belief system but a practice system, atheism is not a practice system, but a belief system. Historically, these two have been combined, because apparently for most people that ever lived on this planet, the two went together. And that was called religion.
So, inasmuch as religion is a belief system, atheism is a religion. Inasmuch as religion is a practice system, atheism is not a religion.
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Chris Aldon 20+
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Chris Aldon 20+
Matthieu Miossec 100+
Chris Aldon 20+
Not believing is not a belief in the negative. Example :"I have an apple" I don't believe you - Versus "I have an apple" No you don't
However people define atheist differently (I'm not big on titles). Some say atheism is not a lack of belief but instead a belief that there is not a god.
If atheism is defined as belief in no god then I'd say it is a religion
According to this chart http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0075.pdf
Atheism and no religion are two separate entities
Derek Payne