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Lucas Avelleda

Athlete, International Shotokan Karate Federation

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The decriminalization of abortion

Are you in favor or against the decriminalization of abortion?
What are your thoughts and arguments?


Let's start the debate!

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    Jun 10 2011: While I can understand the "Is a fetus alive or not" debate, I think there's a whole lot of difference between killing a proto-human, and condemning a children to live in a family that don't want to / can't support him both emotionally and materially, which could have disastrous consequence both on his well-being and on the well-being of the parents. Plus, I think a woman should have the last word on what's going on in her body.

    So yes, I'm in favor of the decriminalization of abortion. Or more accurately, I'm against its criminalization since it's already legal and well-accepted where I live.
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      Jun 10 2011: So it is better to not exist at all than to exist in a dysfunctional family?
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        Jun 11 2011: in my opinion, i believe that its better to not have a abortion but rather put him up for a adoption.

        at the very least the child will live on freely with a family who really wants a baby and able to support it.

        if you think of putting up for adoption as the best choice then there would be no reason to have a abortion
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        Jun 11 2011: I would say yes to your question Chris.

        A life full of depression and chaos is a miserable existence, especially if there are no to few chances of significant change.

        Why I also believe in euthanasia; it is the ultimate choice every human always has, to end their own life.The most extreme choice next to taking anthers life in my opinion. Still when life is grim, your few choices become God.
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          Jun 11 2011: My belief with pregnancy is that it is no longer the woman's body, she is sharing it with the fetus, so it is both of theirs.

          I also think that the chance to live is so rare and so precious that it is always worth the risk.

          and like you I support euthanasia, but that is a whole other topic!
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          Jun 11 2011: Nick................Boy do I know what depression and suicidal thoughts are !!! For some reason (lack of affirmation is one of many) we become irrational and nothing makes sense. In my case, I was so terrified of dying and hell that I continued to live in this state for much too long. But I did see other people who could smile and at intervals some people were kind to me, so I could see a ray of light at the end of the tunnel. I learned that I had been taught to be afraid. So when I was affirmed (it took years for me to trust again) I was free. Is it not really peculiar how things work out sometimes ?

          @ Chris.......Thank you and yes, quite a shift occurs from despair to gratitude.
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        Jun 11 2011: Christopher...Not in my case. I am darn glad someone let me live even if I had to endure abuse.
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          Jun 11 2011: Helen I am so happy to hear you're grateful for life despite how bad it can be at times.
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          Jun 11 2011: Helen,

          With I all I say, is to respect, have you ever felt like you wanted to "die" a few times in life? Times those feelings by a million and some people deal with that daily and still find reason to live, but they have a goal, if you no goals you do not survive!.

          WE must constantly trick ourselves into thinking there is value in life that there is purpose, goals do this! By "trick" I mean we follow what makes us happy in life, physically and mentally. We are controlled by what our body wants as well as our thoughts. By body I mean both brain functions (neurological) and organ/bodily functions (biology).

          To have this ability takes a large consciousness. To have this ability and fight in life is beautiful, perceptively.

          From this I gather; we need to encourage each other to be altruist and selfish at the same time! Oh that sounds silly! But that is how I feel.

          If this was the practice I would agree abortions should be illegal, it just isn't reality to me...
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    Jun 10 2011: What a can of worms you're opening...
    I'm against Abortion unless there is a particular health concern to the mother or the fetus.

    When life begins is a chicken and the egg riddle with people, there is no sure answer that will convince everyone. Pregnancy whether wanted or unwanted is a responsibility both parents should share.

    In the case of rape I am still against abortion, there are times in life when responsibility is forced into our hands, no matter the means the responsibility is still ours to bear.
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      Jun 11 2011: Christopher....................I think we are really on the same page. I personally know a person who is the product of rape and her life has been one of acceptance and she and her husband have lovely children and granchildren. How awful to deprive someone of a chance.!
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        Jun 11 2011: Helen it is good to get a ladies opinion in this talk.

        I used to agree with abortion (hell I know a girl who's had one) then I slowly started to turn the other direction and realize how abortion (in my opinion) is little more than a modern convenience for a process of nature.
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          Jun 11 2011: "how abortion is little more than a modern convenience for a process of nature" - now that's a good point for the debate, Christopher, very interesting point of view, thanks for sharing!
          But why can't we consider it a good convenience for a process of nature? I agree with you that it is a convenience, but in my opinion it is good convenience (if made properly)
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        Jun 11 2011: I was supposed to "not exist", my mom considered an abortion because she was too young. But even though I'm in favor of the decriminalization. If moms consider the situation very, very carefully, with support from their families, friends and doctors, I'm ok with it. And of course, there should be a time limit to do the abortion.
        It's good to see your face around here, Helen, Welcome, haha!
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          Jun 11 2011: Time should matter!! And be the law (and/or rules).
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          Jun 11 2011: Hi Lucas...............Thanks for the welcome. I am so glad that your mom did not go thru with her consideration. Just think, I and the rest of us would have not had the oppotunity to know you. Just as an aside Beethoven and Helen Keller would not have existed had we used our present day evaluations of who should live....Your friend Helen
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          Jun 22 2011: Helen, you could make the same argument against contraception. Also, the argument can be turned on its head. What about all the tyrants we could have saved ourselves from if an abortion had taken place? You cannot argue something as serious as abortion with arguments from hindsight.

          Notwithstanding the popularity of the Great Bethoven fallacy, the actual story behind it is an outright lie. Bethoven was the second oldest in his family and there is no evidence that either parents had syphillis. As for Helen Keller, she wasn't even born deaf and blind, she contracted an illness at the age of 1 that left her that way.

          The Bethoven example relies on the illnesses of other siblings (in the tale, most siblings have non-genetic conditions so the whole fable is stupid anyway, even if it were true) to determine the deafness of Bethoven. You wouldn't diagnose an unborn child through its siblings, that's not common practice. Again, there isn't even a need for me to say thi because, perusing Nethoven's wikipedia page, I've just discovered that he too lost his hearing later in life due to some illness he contracted.

          Lucas knows that the question of abortion would have affected him personally, yet in spite of that he chose to look at the issue rationally, rather than to succumb to the fallacious 'you've killed Bethoven' non-starter. Surely if anything in our history changed then we would not be born. Should we see the first world war as essentially a good thing because without it we wouldn't be born? I don't think so.
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        Jun 11 2011: Helen, interesting point about the person who was the product of rape and accepted it normally. However, there are inumerous cases in which the mom and/or the child don't have that acceptance, and end up having a series of different problems in their lives. I'm not saying that all raped women should abort, but that the woman should have the option. If she has no familiar or psychological structure and considers that she couldn't raise a child that reminded her of a traumatic experience, just to mention an usual situation, the option had to exist.
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    Jun 11 2011: Lucas, i will tell you that i am still young to really judge if i can take care a baby right now but i am confident that when i become a father i would consider adoption if my spouse agrees with it
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    Jun 22 2011: In favour. But this should be accompanied with a sensible sex education scheme (not abstinence only) so that abortions really do become a last resort. They're not 100% accident prone.

    The amount of abortions that are carried out in countries that allow it remain inconsequential compared to the natural abortions the female body sometimes triggers. Indeed, not every egg fertilization leads to a successful pregnancy.

    Now of course, an arbotion has to be performed under a time-limit, after which a foetus is properly a living thing.
  • Jun 13 2011: This is a very touchy topic indeed, but one that should be discussed openly, with respect, and civility.

    Abortion puts into question the very definition of what it means to be a human.

    I believe a lot of this debate goes back to your point of reference for human value. If you believe that abortion is acceptable, you also must believe that there is a point in which value is given to a developing life, and conversely that there is a point in which that life has no value and is disposable.
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      Jun 11 2011: Thank you for sharing.

      People will have them legal or not is an interesting point, I feel maybe more talk should be dedicated to that.
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    Jun 11 2011: Considering that there is no consensus in the society or in the cientifical community about the beginning of life - regardin when it happens-, I believe that if the woman considers that abortion is the best choice, she should be allowed to do it. Abortion is a quite traumatic experience for any woman, whether it is made in a safe clinic or not. I wouldn't reccomend it, but if the woman chooses to do so, it is not within our right to stop her.
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    Jun 11 2011: For everyone supporting abortion, where do you draw the line?

    1st trimester, second, third?
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    Jun 11 2011: Touche topic!

    I'm in favor. Timothy covers a lot of my points.

    Personal choices that affect/effect only self in general should never be illegal.
    • Jun 13 2011: "Personal choices in general should never be illegal."? Everything that is illegal is a personal choice.
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        Jun 13 2011: Edited***

        But no, not everything illegal is a personal choice.
        • Jun 13 2011: I can't think of anything offhand that is illegal, and is not a choice, at least not in modern culture, but regardless, that is not the important matter here.

          The problem lies with the thinking that abortion does not affect anyone. The people that are the product of rape, and are alive today show that abortion does affect others.
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        Jun 13 2011: It's the law to pay x sales tax on a product. You have no say in this, this is not a personal freedom law.

        All I am saying is abortion is a choice, and personal choices should be free, period.