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Do you believe we have true freewill?
I am curious to know if you believe we are more than just chemical and physical reactions in our brains.
What do you believe, and does that belief affect how you live and make decisions?
Edit: I have modified the question to allow for a more broad discussion on the general concept of freewill.
There seems to be a lot of confusion around the definition of the term "freewill". I have gathered some definitions from a few sources below to use:
"The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion"
Source: Google dictionary
"Free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will."
Source: Dictionary.com
Lets try to not get too caught up on the semantics. There has been some interesting discussions so far. I would like to summarize the main points on each side of this topic when I have time.
Helen Hupe 30+
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Andrew Buchmann
"Imagine that a mad scientist has developed a means of controlling the human brain at a distance. What would it be like to watch him send a person to and fro on the wings of her “will”? Would there be even the slightest temptation to impute freedom to her? No. But this mad scientist is nothing more than causal determinism personified. What makes his existence so inimical to our notion of free will is that when we imagine him lurking behind a person’s thoughts and actions—tweaking electrical potentials, manufacturing neurotransmitters, regulating genes, etc.—we cannot help but let our notions of freedom and responsibility travel up the puppet’s strings to the hand that controls them."
-From Sam Harris' "Free Will (And Why You Still Don't Have It)."
Now imagine that the mad scientist forces you to meditate. This is no different than any other act he may make you perform, against your own "volition."
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Andrew Buchmann
Do we have control over our subconscious? Can I make decisions with my subconscious? I don't think we can. What I think we can do is struggle with our perception of consciousnesses.
This is is where I disagree with Dennett as to what consciousness "is." I believe consciousness to be nothing more than an illusion as well, brought about by a sophisticated and complex blob of neural networks. Sam Harris probably shares this same view as well, and thus why it is so easy for him to accept his determinism analogy. Like you said, the feedback loop of stimuli changes our behavior, so why invite free will to the party if he isn't needed?
Thanks again Jim!
Asher Myers
Our free will or ability to choose from available permutations of action/response is severely limited both by our intellectual and analytic skills as well as our ability to perceive said permutations or courses of action. Imagine a situation in which a person, let's call him John, comes across a relatively simple fork in his path. The fork has two visible branches, neither of which have any indication as to their destination or quality. John thinks that he has only two choices(technically all choices are available but they do not pertain to this example. ie: John decides to do the Macarena) if he wishes to proceed: the left fork, or the right. However there is an alternative which he cannot observe: an underground path leading directly to his destination. Does his lack of perception mean that he is fated to choose from only a fraction of the possible paths? Does his hand preference make him lean towards the side of his favored hand(as it do most) thus making him slave to innate bias from birth?
Certainly both factors play a part but let's exclude the perception factor as that is somewhat more abstract. In the case of subconscious bias, either innate or learned, we are subservient. As people, we are automatically prefer our race to other races(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq1PDYB1G1U) no matter what we do to consciously counteract it, we have an unconscious preference. So, to a very real extent, we have a default leaning which may supersede any conscious decision, thus voiding "free will".
Sorry if this comes off as a "wall of text"
Abhiram Lohit 10+
You mean something like this? http://www.ted.com/conversations/3619/what_is_your_belief_regarding.html
:))
adam macauley
Nhan Bui
Chandramouli Pandya
Neil Greco
I believe free will is multifaceted, and a multidimensional concept that can be speculated upon, even defined; however, not to the degree that understanding it would mean controlling it so that all conscious choices would result in the best possible outcomes.
Uncertainty; doubt; wisdom; lack of any real conscious or unscious underpinnings; uncoscious and conscious mechanisms that dictate or at least affect what our choices/decisions/opinions/actions etc. are (what we believe and how we try to align ourselves to those beliefs/guidelines/dictims, etc.), are as reliable and as unpredictable as the moment in time we make them.
Whether or not we have, what's poorly termed "free will" seems to be limited in our ability to engage this topic. I'd advocate for a discussion that also includes, "dumb luck", "true happiness", etc. to round this out.
Have you ever known or worked with someone wth Downs Syndrome? Do they have free will? Is it a limited free will? And if so... Do you think they would dwell on this? I doubt it... But I tell you they are so child-like and in the moment, I envy them the ability to leave things as they are and enjoy them, without undue complications from overthinking the critical nature as to whether or not I choose to support a cause, or what my neighbor thinks of me playing into their relatity.
By it's very name, imperfect as it is, free will calls us to define, redefine and choose or not to choose to really name it al all. I'll call it "fred."
Siuling Ding
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
Siuling Ding
Yes it appears that we have the ability to act without any restriction, but the actions are limited to my, or your, 'self'. i.e. I can raise my hand at anytime but not anyone else's. As technology advances, 'self' will begin to include things other than our biological bodies.
But experiments show that the brain activities behind raising my arm begins even before I decide to carry out the action, so from this perspective the action is, somehow, not a result of my concious thinking.
My views are heavily base on scientific facts and experiments but I'm glad to see opinions with different groundings.
- Ding
alex rodriguez
Tim blackburn 30+
Sajeesh Raghav
Every word is an evolved philosophy which was conditioned by time.
The point is... We need to find new ways to express the experience of living with a free will
Laurens Rademakers 50+
:: a baby is *born* into language, and a particular language, at that (that is: specific neurological stimuli in the brain based on particular sound-patterns). It doesn't choose its own words, it has no free will at all. It is born into culture (a unique set of sensory stimuli). Once this culture is acquired, it can "play" within it. But it will never decide for itself in which language or culture it is born. ::
In short, humans have no real free will. Only some room to "play" within existing systems.
Most of us exaggerate the importance of this "play", which only scratches at the surface of the strong structures which determine our existence.
dingle mcringleberry
Matthieu Miossec 100+
E G 10+
Neil Greco
Anne Thull
I agree that even when we live in a positive environment, we are faced with Cultural pressures that can suppress our "free-will spirit " through "confined" family, religious, educated or social barriers - even if they are very well meaning.
I think 'free will' is an inborn natural sense, and even if suppressed - yet it can be revived.
As we grow up, if we naturally focus on choosing to play, live or work with an interest that makes us happy, we consciously or unconsciously followed our 'free will' and probably went against socially accepted choices in doing so. I think the pivotal moment of recognizing you have 'free will' is when you realize you can make your choices on a consistent basis.... this realization can happen anytime throughout your life, from infancy through old age.
Abhiram Lohit 10+
Sometimes, our logic may be perfect, but we may not find physical proof or evidence for it.
(Sorry, this is a little off-topic, but somewhat related)
Sajeesh Raghav
I think we are more than chemiphysi.
What we believe aren’t we its like our reflected image on a mirror and it’s not real
The image varies according to the light given, the light is consciousness, image also defer according to the state of mind we look with
Imagine that we are surrounded by 7 music systems and it plays 7 deferent songs with deferent rhythm
Can we enjoy music?
Our mind also experiences the same,
searching for various rational questions and answers the same time?
Our mind carries many samsonites and it get on to our mind as we grow, and on every samsonite we get we think we are conditioned and matured
If we ask, How our will evolve or perform or conditioned?
the answer would be that , It is done by emotions that been pushed by our senses
If we like to have a free will, we shouldn’t have any of our six senses
The question about free will also started out of confusions by lot of unprocessed reciprocal responses we are getting from around us
These questions are there in everyone
Everyone are getting deferent responses or time slots to experience from around them and creates their own idea on what they are
Men are the responses, that they get from outside
We are fully an emotional flux.
We never can have a free will
If our will is free then, we can’t have come up to a conclusion after reading all these comments on free will
We are determined to be persuaded, that’s why we read these comments
There is some inner talk in all of us which says I am ready to surrender if you have a good terminology which will lighten up my perception to create a nice picture which I will like and will change towards that idea
So reconfirming: we never can have a free will
If we have a free will we can’t learn because we will be changed by what we learn
Free will is a beautiful concept
May be we will experience of being with a fre will because of some like sort of perceptions we had.
Fatih Incekara
The subject of Free will is not a scientific subject
please, take your time to read this;
Divine Determining and the power of choice are aspects of a belief pertaining to state and conscience which show the final limits of Islam and belief; they are not theoretical and do not pertain to knowledge. That is to say, a believer attributes everything to Almighty God, even his actions and self, till finally the power of choice confronts him, so he cannot evade his obligation and responsibility. It tells him: “You are responsible and under obligation.” Then, so that he does not become proud at his good deeds and his achievements, Divine Determining confronts him, saying: “Know your limits; the one who does them is not you.” Yes, Divine Determining and the power of choice are at the final degrees of belief and Islam; the former has been included among the matters of belief to save the soul from pride, and the latter, to make it admit to its responsibility. Obdurate evil-commanding souls clinging to Divine Determining in order to clear themselves of the responsibility of the evils they have committed, and their becoming proud and conceited on account of the virtues bestowed on them and their relying on the power of choice, are actions totally opposed to the mystery of Divine Determining and wisdom of the power of choice; they are not matters pertaining to knowledge which might give rise to such actions.
The Words. 26st Word. Beduizzaman Said Nursi
brian roberts
I had no choice but to add my comment
You chose to read this ? etc
Mireille Chéry
Furthermore, having freewill does not mean that you have control over your life ! I deeply believe that whatever that we goes through in this life : "good or bad", was plan ahead, to experience a situation that will make our soul and spirit grow stronger etc.
At the end, do good only, respect yourself and others, detached yourself from people that will bring you down or negatif about your ideas, friends, family and specially you.
Be a giver not a retainer ! Peace.
Mireille Chéry
Jordan Miller 20+
Our inner world creates our outer world. Our inner, spiritual life creates our thoughts, which create our actions and words which creates the results we enjoy.
Without freedom of will justice cannot be served - for how can you deserve a punishment or reward if you cannot freely choose between the two? a life without freedom is not be worth living.
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This belief does determine how I live my life. I enjoy more control and more harmony with the universe and more unity with all others because I believe I can choose to.
If you can be persuaded you have no freedom of will, you will automatically give it up.
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Many cite "Empirical evidence" to prove we do or do not have freedom of will. Such an effort is futile to produce true believers.
In a universe of equilibrium and balance (the only kind of universe in which true freedom of will can exist) there is enough evidence to believe either scenario. Therefore people will choose which one resonates with their heart. And their choice will determine (or rather, reflect) just how free they are.
"What people choose to believe, what people choose to be responsive to is the greatest expression of who they are and what they love."
David Evans
Mihir Joshi
Helen Hupe 30+
Ed Schulte 50+
Do you 'believe' we have true 'freewill'?
First "freewill" action I make here is .......Drop the questioning and then and change You to "I" then it it becomes.......
I 'believe' ( and therefore I) have 'freewill'
For consciousness to 'believe' anything, it has to apply 'will' ......the degree of 'free'dom in the believing is dependent on , / relevant to / the Level of Consciousness that is applying its own 'will'
Joshua Petersen
To simplify with a not-perfect but illustrative example: Imagine you have a universe of a chess board where the only laws of nature are those of chess which dictate how each piece can move and the law "one piece shall move every 5 seconds". There are not enough laws of nature and situational events to determine how pieces will move. Although they can in very limited situations (such as an 'in check' position with only one way out), for the most part, for the pieces to move (if they were to do so, which our rules state they must), some degree of free will (aka self determination beyond the rules of the system) must exist, because otherwise, the pieces couldn't move.
We may have more "move rules" in our universe than in the imaginary chess-board universe, but the same situation still applies. There are more possible results than there are rolls to choose from. If you may doubt this, think about this: A chess board has discrete spaces. There are a total of 64 possible positions. If one of us were to just move, being analog, (instead of a square unit, we would use 'center of mass" as our position) there are literally an infinite number of dimensionless points between any other two points which can designate our position. The laws that exist are not enough to determine where we end up, yet move we do.
In my opinion, it would be a more accurate question to ask, "Is there anything that differentiates true free will from just random chance." This is a question I'd like to know the answer to.
Debra Smith 200+
Joshua Petersen
This does show an ironic issue with trying to test freewill, however. Scientific testing focuses on testing the same situation repeatedly, and if you put an individual in a repeating situation, they'll build up an automatic response to it.
Ironically, the situations I see most showing free will are the "mundane" decisions we have a hard time making, like choosing between two flavors of icecream we've never tried before.
To accurately test free will, I suspect we would need a test that checked an individual with multiple novel scenarios (instead of single scenario) and without a timelimit (to avoid instinct responses). The hard part about this is getting something novel enough to force people to decide instead of follow a gut response.
Debra Smith 200+
Joshua Petersen
AbdelRahman Siddig
freewill part include what to believe and how we live
non freewill part include our arrival and departure time to and from life
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
we have free will.
proof:
when you want to decide between two option and ask yourself:
if I do this or not?
this shows you have free will.
if you had no free will you did not ask yourself I do this or not?
Shawki Shawki
Mihir Joshi