- nouria hakem
- Doha
- Qatar
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Why the Western countries do not say anything against the apostasy crime ?
Hello,
In my country, Qatar, not to accept the coran is punished of imprisonment.
That does not disturb the muslims but all those who are apostate are obliged to keep silent itself.
I board make part of my studies in the United States and the difference in education is immense, I prefer the life in the United States.
Islam lowers the woman, it makes people not intelligent, they are closed of spirit. Many beats the women.
The occident should react and push with our best recognition.
Aisha Adeyemo
The Quran, which is the fundamental basis of Islam does not lower women as you believe. A proof of this the story of Aisha - who i like to call the 1st Feminist as she lived, went to wars and fought beside the Prophet. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha)
A link explaining the controversy around her age is here too
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25106
If you do understand the truth you will see that your problem is not Islam but traditions that have been ingrained in Islam. Ultimately, what you need to do is solve your problem yourself as many of us are trying to do. Use the TED talks to spread your idea and the truth in your own way and turn to allies to spread the truth. Im not saying it will be easy but what i am saying is that it is necessary for you to be a driver and part of that change. Read as much as you can and start small. If you run to the west what happens to your mum, sister, aunt, grandmother and other women? What happens then when you get there and someone sees you and treats you unjustly because you are an Arab and still has painful memories of terrible acts he/she recieved driven by misconceptions of Islam? where will you run to then?
Thomas Pisarchick 10+
James Walker 30+
However, I have to offset that versus what right do I/we 9the Western countries) have to comment on the internal matters of another country.
I guess we'd be pretty upset if the Emir told us that the women-folk of London should cover up more?
Perhaps this is really a question on the nature of democracy vs dictatorship? Maybe we have (slightly) more moral authority to interfere in another state when the regime is undemocratic? But seems tough to me, and a little arrogant, for me in the West to tell other countries what to do, even if I find it unattractive.
inthegarden beyondthecave
Unfortunately, we have some significant lack of cultural memory so that there seems to be a swing back toward involving religion in government. The 1960's were probably the high point for religious freedom in the US. We seem to be slowly collapsing toward theocracy, step by step. The rise of the power of fundamentalists in the Repulican Party, together with the rise of power of the Republican Party, are a measure of where we are headed.
When ignorant people are given the legal power to punish divergence from their own views, they use that power against the wise. When wiser people are given that power, they do not use it because they would rather use education, discussion, and the arts to persuade others of what they believe is the truth. Thus, the legal power to punish people based on beliefs is one power that ought not exist since it will only be used by ignorant people for evil purposes.
Ken brown 30+
Tim Colgan 50+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
it also brings up the question, who is the "west"? i personally should do something? what can i do? can you help me? can you recommend something?
governments should do something? what? countries are sovereign. other countries have not much to influence them. embargo, military intervention, assassination of leaders are not good ways, i'm sure we agree.
so i just repeat what i always do: free trade and free cooperation is the best way to go. and i'm doing my best to convince people about that, so they vote accordingly.
Debra Smith 200+
Why not develop reciprocal treaties that allow us to 'trade' citizens like we have prisoner exchanges?
In most countries that accept immigrants there are policies which consider apostacy 'persecution' and afford the person refugee status. The problem is that those processes are slow and relgious persecutors are fast. I wish we could have people who are unhappy in one country placed on a waiting list and whenever there was someone who is convicted with crazy 'crimes' like apostacy or homosexuality or whatever, the two nations would simply trade citizen for citizen. With one person taking over the rights of the other in their new society gaining new citizenship and no right to return. Failing that -they should have to take one of ours that we no longer want (maybe a crooked politcian????)
Odd reasoning perhaps, but I cannot see the flaw in it if people on both sides were willing (except that politician - he no longer gets a vote).
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Debra Smith 200+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Debra Smith 200+
Julie Ann 10+
Some of these fundamental rights are:
Freedom from discrimination on the basis of gender, race or any demographic characteristic. This means that a woman can be educated, drive a car, not be subjected to "virginty test", and similar indignities.
The freedom to practice any religion of choice (or not), as long as it does not infringe on the rights of anyone else
The right to be an independent human being, not someone's property
The right to have access to an education
I am sure there are others but these come to mind on the spur of the moment. It is frustrating to know that such grave injustices are inflicted on people, particularly women and children, every minute of every day, and yet we are powerless to do anything about it. It is interesting that the leaders of these countries themselves engage in whatever western practices catch their fancy, while holding the lash of "righteousness" against their citizenry. Surely, there must be a better way. I think oil is a factor but not the only one. Many oil-poor countries abuse their women and children and the international community is still powerless to do anything. I wish I had a good answer, Nouria.
Debra Smith 200+
Julie Ann 10+
Debra Smith 200+
Your argument is very convincing to me. I, too believe that there needs to be an international court that is supported by all nations with the fundamental concepts of Human Rights. I would nominate Louise Arbour as its first justice.
My suggestion was merely a stop gap measure (and a bit tongue in cheek towards the end.) but I too have never understood why killing people was necessary if you were religious- wasn't an eternity in hell good enough- when they got there by natural means? I have always wondered why countries do not trade citizens - it seemed a sensible solution to me- but you are right when you point out that people should have the right to live with their friends and family- but it is often exactly those people who are most likely to kill them in these circumstances.
Julie Ann 10+
Nouria's argument is that the west should intervene. Sovereignty is an issue but I think the human factor is more important. It is a bit like if my neighbors are abusing their children, I know about it but choose to do nothing with the excuse that it is none of my business and I have no right to interfere. Meanwhile, the children endure untold suffering.
Under international law, there must be a way to accomplish change legally and effectively for the victims Nouria describes. I know this is an issue that many of us are concerned about. Good talking to you again. Cheers
Salim Solaiman 50+
That would be good solution , I mean having an International effective Watchdog that will ensure implementation of laws whenever any sort human rights violation happens.
However specifically in Oil Rich Middle Eastern countries, a whole paradigm shift of the psyche of overall population is needed as the Citizens who are aware that their rights are violated every moment & have intension to protests (definitely they are right), those very Citizens find it to be completely fine to ill treat immigarnt workers. When immigrant workers are more than 50% of the total population in some case they are 70-80% even !!
Number doesn't matter though as a single violation is violation & unacceptable , just want to give an idea how many people are exposed to mentioning those percentages.
Julie Ann 10+
Thomas Pisarchick 10+
http://www.google.com/moderator/#16/e=8649b
This was spawned from the conversation
http://www.ted.com/conversations/3058/finding_common_ground_what_do.html
Debra Smith 200+
Julie Ann 10+
Tim Colgan 50+
Many times people in the occident would like to help with situations such as this. But when they attempt to, they are often accused of meddling in a countries internal affairs. And often they are! The goodwill of some is often exploited by others (for example - missionary/capitalist alliances) for their own agendas.
How would you suggest that people can help with the plight you describe without causing negative repercussions?
nouria hakem
A philosophical and religious opening to reduce the islamist endoctrination would be a counterpart with an equal demand for oil.
Tim Colgan 50+
Obviously, sometime in the future, the world will not be so centered on oil. History shows that energy sources evolve - from wood, to coal, to gas/oil, to... And eventually the Middle East will lose that factor in it's political equation. But it might be a long wait for that to happen.
What else could be done to tip the balance of power?
Christophe Cop 500+
Why?
I think all forms of persecution because of falsehoods are to be forbidden... One should never be punished for being critical or willing to question (false) beliefs!
So let us know where to vote or sign if you need moral support. I hope you can find more local voices... (There must be some hidden organisations trying to change it over there, don't you think?)
Thomas Pisarchick 10+
Salim Solaiman 50+
Greed for Oil resource kept west to be friendly with tyrannical regimes in Middle East, where the basic human rights of it's inhabitants are at stake every moment. Women citizen being biggest sufferer. And immigrant workers are treated simply inhumanly.
Needs overall reform , addressing one or two issue will not solve much & whatever it is, drive should be intrinsic first.