Adriana Camarena

Eternal Student,

This conversation is closed.

Can we say anything we want anywhere we want?

The freedom of expression is very overated nowadays. I find very often that anyone says what they wants without stopping one second to think if is a fresh and real thing to say or it is only some old and chewed opinion.

We have a lot of gadgets now to say and express feelings, opinions or just to put words on... Are we using them wisely?

Places like TED let us talk about many things supported by a great amount of amazing talks and people. So you tell me, are we using wisely our words?

Closing Statement from Adriana Camarena

I realize that the words are very powerful, that they can cut, hurt, change, travel.... We travel through words too.
Kindness and wisdom, intelligence and precision, sound and silence. This question did not have only one answer, the point was to make us think and question ourselves about what we say, when and where. We're very free to say whatever we want... but we're very free to be silent wherever and whenever we want too.
And we don't know the real power of our words, we can change things, we can make a difference, but I also learned that I have to let my words go far.

Thank you.

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    May 24 2011: maybe we should separate the concepts of "freedom of self expression" and the actual "act of self expression". i don't think that you can have too much freedom of self expression. but, as you mentioned, maybe we have a little too much self expression lately. maybe a better balance between times of learning and times of talking?
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        May 24 2011: well, i would not agree to limit that right. but sometimes i feel some people could use more critical attitude toward themselves. or more doubt? more curiosity?
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          May 25 2011: I think you pointed it correctly, we have to be more critical about what we say. Or at least ask to ourselves why are we asking or saying something, what is exactly what we want to say, etc... Sometimes happen that te language that we most speak is the same we know the less...
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    May 25 2011: I try to be responsible (as I am not wise) in using my words always, but even TED is no exception in respect to freedom of speech that I experienced recently with removal of my couple of post which no one can rate to be abusive , attacking , discriminating or valgur in any way , I can challenge. Those were removed just for being "logical" labelling it Off Topic which was actually in response to orginal thread itself & response to discussion owner.

    Please check this link where it happened (I can't paste what I wrote in removed post as proof to be judged by you, as TED sent those to cemetary).

    As I failed to paste the link here I giving the name of thread "Is Koran Sciencetifically Miracle"?

    Feeling simply insulted and chocked
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      May 25 2011: I had one removed, too. I don't feel 'insulted and shocked', just misunderstood : ) I hope your feelings will evaporate sooner than later since it's really not worth you feeling bady.
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        May 26 2011: I have had comments removed too. The first time it happened i was wounded. Once when I did not understand why mine and many others had been removed I contacted the Admin to explain what we were doing and how it would enrich TED and GUESS what?? They put the threads back.

        So, i have found them reasonable and most of the time when mine have been removed I have understood their reasoning. Once I even had to email back and say "mea culpa".
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          May 28 2011: Signora Debra...qualche volta si puo lasciare cossi...ma la dignita,quando e superiore e nobile non rimane in silenzio.
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        May 29 2011: Signore Di Salapuruta Mordeforte,Grazie! Spero che scelgo sempre la nobiltà e il silenzio al momento giusto

        Sono felice che lei si sono uniti alla nostra conversazione. Non parlo italiano, ma sono grato per i traduttori online che ci aiutano a comunicare.
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          May 29 2011: Cara Signora quando vogliamo dire la verita, la nostra parola nasce nel Spirito Eterno.
          La nobilità e lo stesso che la giustizia, la belleza e la bontà. Il nostro cuore splende sotto la luce dalla Grazia.
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        May 30 2011: Mi ricordi di un uomo che ha usato a frequentare questo luogo. Sapeva che Dio troppo. Il suo nome era Jaime. Lo conosci?
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      May 27 2011: Yeah, I know how you feel Salim. I think Pabitra had his whole conversation blown away. Haven't seen him since. And I miss his voice.
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        May 27 2011: me too..I miss him very much and I miss his exchnages with Richard.
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          May 27 2011: We could also add Jaime Lubin to that list.
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        May 28 2011: Hi Tim
        Thanks for your empathy.
        Is that ? Why Pabitra's full conversation was blown away ? Then I am lucky compared to him.
        Feeling sad really for Jaime. Debra is luckiest I guess, me didn't get any response first, than got an lame excuse after creating hell lot of noise along with Richard.
  • May 27 2011: Persian poet Saadi said:

    "each saying has a place and each point has a time"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saadi_%28poet%29

    also in past some Persian people always had a small stone in their mouth. when they wanted to speak that stone reminded them to think enough before speak. if speak without think the stone fall out.
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      May 27 2011: how beuatiful and how wise.. thnak you Mr. Ahmadi.

      My practice is the same..allow sience to enter before speaking..allow silence within the speaking.

      again

      many thanks
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    May 25 2011: As people we have the right to 'let it all hang out' as the 1960's phrase says but we have to realize that others might not enjoy that as much as we might like to believe that they would. The Hunter S. Thompson sort of Gonzo journalism encouraged many people to feel that it was a useful exercise to expose oneself anytime anywhere.

    I like the old admonition to ask oneself: is it kind? is it true? is it necessary? I have to admit that I am not always as scrupulous with the latter part of the admonition.
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      May 25 2011: "Old admonition to ask oneself: is it kind? is it true? is it necessary?" I love that, Debra. I'm going to try to memorize it and pass it on.
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        May 26 2011: Hey Lynn,
        Maybe we should also ask ourselves "Does it look like I am wearing a Speedo" in this comment?
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          May 27 2011: Oh Ed..you made me laugh right out loud.. thank you

          Byron Katie has an excellent anti-meme process:
          The Work of Byron Katie
          1. Is it true? (If the answer is “No,” move to #3.)
          2. Can you absolutely know that it’s true?
          3. How do you react, what happens, when you believethat thought?
          4. Who would you be without the thought?Turn the thought around.Find genuine examples for the turnaround.Can you find other turnarounds?Give genuine examples for each turnaround
          .© 2009 Byron Katie, Inc.

          And here is a link to Dr Hawkins ..And then What..excellent !!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi91tScxRQY
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      May 26 2011: that's a good rule, Debra.... ours in contemplative life is does add anything of value?
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        May 26 2011: That is a great one too Lindsay.
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        May 27 2011: Yes, maybe. I was thinking of those middle aged men who prance out unconcerned and you wonder- doesn't anyone love him enough to tell him?
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          May 27 2011: yes well it's in ou rlexicon now and the wikipedia meaning is given as

          "to make a complete fool of ones self"
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          May 27 2011: Hi Ed and Lindsay and even Dr. H!
          Is that so?
          We all grow as we are able. I see it more like a bar graph. A person can be a giant in one area and quite under developed in another. For example one person might be deeply intuned to and aware of their pain body, one might be a ball of light, but another might choose to speak in language that the group understood and never ridicule another even in that special language. One might have come to love others enough to speak with them and reason while another might choose to dismiss people based on their superior knowledge. I am not so sure that people gain a one time enlightenment but rather choose every day to be better, kinder, more hospitable and to allow everyone the freedom to evaluate for themself and to live their life on their own terms.
          Not all things are Apropos for all people.
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          May 27 2011: love that..thnak you ed..a blessing to have you present two days in a row

          how lovely
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          May 27 2011: @ Deb..Is that so?

          Beautiful Debra..beautiful!!!

          In any gathering of respectful exchange and earnest search for the truth no one person contains the whole

          ..each person contains and brings a special part of the whole that makes the peices fit for everyone else.

          If everyone turned up with the same gifts we'd never get anywhere.

          You are sooooo right.:))))

          That's why I am here at Ted

          I never leave any conversation or even any exchange on a thread that I am not more whole..more complete.I learn and grwo so much more here where we struggle with our differences than i do in closed community where every one agrees on everything.
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        May 27 2011: I did not know that speedo = "to make a complete fool of ones self" .

        Are you pulling my leg?
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          May 27 2011: no that's what you said ( by virtue of your description)..or at least that's what I thought you said
          .any way you invented

          ..I got it

          Ed Got it

          so now it's official

          to be caught wearing a speedo=to make a complete fool of one's self

          no?
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    May 31 2011: Adriana..and all who have particpated , as this conversation draws to a close I just want to say thanks..we have covered some really important ground here that will serve us well here at Ted Conversations but in our lives..in all of our speaking.
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    May 29 2011: I just realize that the things we say have a powerful effect, always, but the place where we say them absorbes or trasmits that effect. Sometimes a very good idea can make no effect in a particular context, sometimes the same idea can provoque a lot of different reactions... What do you think?
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      May 29 2011: Perhaps that is why most people only sing in the shower, Adriana. They know that somethings should be done in private.
      I really am hearing your admonition that our words have power and may travel far when expressed in a place like this. Is that what you are thinking?
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        May 30 2011: Dear Debra, yes, I think that words have enormous power expressed in a place like this, heared (or readed) by the right person at the right time. Sometimes we wander a lot to find someone who understands... but the real challenge is to understand and hear ourselves, from the inside.

        The path is always inside of us, but is always helpful to find that the things we say have power because they're real. I often feel that I have a lot of things to say, and to share... but no always I found the right person to do it so... the criticism comes, the doubt, the discredit or just the ignoring.
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          May 31 2011: Adriana your words are powerful. How do we find that proper balance between trust and mistrust, expession and inhibition, when to talk and when to stay silent?

          The kind of response is another thing. All people have their own motivations for coming to a site like this one. Some people focus only on what they can get while others focus only on what they can give not realizing that the very act of participation changes us. Those who criticize, hurt or ignore others are short sited and poor citizens of the domain.

          "The path is inside of us" is not always apparent to those who are confused or broken.
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          May 31 2011: The Ted Conversations are a complete transcript of what transpires here every day..of how our words affect others..how our words and our intent contributes to or detracts from each conversation.

          And unlike real life, here, we actually have plenty of time to reall do a self evaluation before we speak .. Am I speaking here from a trigger response? Is what I want to say a good point of entry for other sto the conversation? Am I venting or trying to build this conversation? Nothing else gives us that opportunity.

          So every day we have a chnace to see and evaluate for ourselves..what inyention we are spekaing from and to see what effect that has on others.

          And here we can actually go back and remove what isn't up to sniff in furthering the conversation productively..we can modify how we said we said so that our words are more productive and useful for the whole community involved in or potetally attrcated to the conversation..we can correct our own record .

          Those are all amazing tools for self evelauation..self discovery.
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          May 31 2011: Oh Lindsay, I could not agree more. I find it to be a powerful mirror. In the end, our own words reflected back to us change us the most.
          One thing though, is that I do not think it is a good thing to be blown with the wind and with every new opinion. It is important for us to adjust to powerful new information with discernment. If we held opinions for solid reasons we need to take the time to see how that information fits into the whole rather than just say "yes, you're right" and then with the next bit "yes, you're right." I think there is a way to acknowledge the veracity of a statement without entirely jumping from ship to ship. People drown that way.
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          May 31 2011: I can't speak for other people's practices, Debra, but when I say simply "I agree" I acaually have read an d thought a lot about what the other person said and felt it should stand on its own without any elaboration or dissection or extension.

          When I say, I agree, I mean I agree

          and I also mean to move that comment once again to the front of the line in what will people will see and think about if they are entering the conversation for the first time.

          And of course it follows my rule for all speaking.."say nothing if it does nott add anything of value to the overall conversation.

          sometimes to say more when something has been beautifully said is
          well

          getting caught in your speedo


          XXOO
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          May 31 2011: Hahhhha!
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    May 28 2011: Noi vediamo interesting il vostro impegno.(A nice colorful way) Ma dobbiamo segnalare che la volontà che voi volete ricuperare per esprimere (say anything) un vostro pensiero qui e là, non è la stessa volontà per ascoltarci. Cioè non basta parlare ma essere udito. (To whom you speak?)
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      May 28 2011: And what do we need to be heard?
      (Che cosa manca per essere udito?)
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        May 28 2011: Conoscere qui ascolta, (who hear) e parlare con la stessa lingua (and talk with the same linguagio.)
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          May 31 2011: Yes, Conte, we should aspire to speak with the same language and to speak on topics we are informed about.
          Each of us, though, even when we speak only one language and speak with people in that language - have our own meanings for words are often used as indistinct symbols. That is why you are so right to encourage us to listen. I would add that we should listen with our hearts!
  • May 26 2011: If you're mute yes.
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    May 25 2011: Adriana: Personally, what I enjoy most about TED conversations is dialog - back and forth interaction which reveals multiple viewpoints.

    It is often a difficult balance between provoking a response and being insulting. But I think you will find, here at least, that as long as people are willing to keep up the dialog, the differences get amicably resolved.

    I'd hate to see people restraining their input out of fear of one person taking offense.
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      May 26 2011: I love the same back and forth very much and having benefited from Tim's input I can say that he really does work to provoke a response that is good for the dialogue and the whole.

      I disagree in part about the last sentence. While I do not think we should restrain the quality of the input and its fully meaning I think that we should all work hard to phrase it in such a way that we minimize the likeihood of offending. Takes a little more time and thought but it is almost always more productive.
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    May 25 2011: Hello Adriana and thank you so much for framing this conversation and inviting us to it

    Facebook,email, tweeting and blogging has fostered a culture of ego centered communication in which the art of conversation has been lost and in which facts and thought are not always the point or highly regarded.

    As I know you doAdriana, and have stated in your framing of this question, I consider Ted and in particular Ted conversations a very important social experiment. There is no other place like it. It is a community of colloquy..or at least maybe evolving to that as we wean each other off the clipped, spontaneous,and often thoughtless habit of tweeting,blogging and facebook.Here we are a community by agreeing to the rules that bind us as a community to which we must specifically agree in order to comment here. Those rules are enforced and honored by admin ( often with quite a bit of rancor and protest) and by us..individuals in community

    Yes,asmany other commentors have said here already, here as elsewhere in countries which uphold free speech gaurantee free speech, we can literally say anything we want. Here at Ted you can even include as your "ted Idea Worth spreading" a very hateful and offensive statement completely contrary tothe purpose of Ted without censorhsip"

    .But we are are always rresponsble forthe conesquences of our speech. For its affects on others..for whether our words further understanding or deepend a divide,for whether it builds bridges or prevents bridges from being built,for whether we offer encouragement

    .Those choices affect not only our effect on others bu twho we are and how we feel about ourselves

    .I have notice a 100% correlation between people who are happy an d truly at peace in the wolrld,people who are beloved and revered in the wolrd and the habit of speaking in mindfu lcompassion,mindfulpreseence, civily,quietly, from inner strength..
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    May 24 2011: I don't think we are free to say anything we want in any place we want.Freedom of speech has borders. If your idea is a contribution to the health of society, then of course we should be able to express that idea. However if I am in a crowded theater and I yell "FIRE" and that causes people to stomp other people trying to get out, then I should not be able to do that. Also If I am telling lies or or denigrating others, then no. Free speech is for non-violently stating our position.
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    May 24 2011: For me, 'wiisely using words' is using words sparingly and being prepared for the consequences.
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      May 27 2011: a good rule..and i can see that consistently in yor engagement here at Ted...and I respect and value that.

      Over time..we get to know one another through "the voice"..the content, the point of view, the manner of speaking, the attitude ..within a conversation we avoid engagements that will not be productive and we seek out and try to build conversation where we think the invetsment will lead somewhere useful for the whole community.

      I always scan the thumbnails to see who among those I most respectin this community has recently commented and will drop in via their remarks to a conversation I might not have chosen from the "Recently Added List"..certain people here at Ted just by their presence..just by who they are and the consistent voice they bring can build a worthywhile inquiry out of almost nay question. I know that I will be elevated by engaging where that person is speaking.

      Having a practice..a "rule" we apply to all our speaking is what gives that definitive "voice".that can lead to learning and expansion. How and idea is packaged has everything to do with how it is received and what it can achieve.

      Thank you Lynn for the consistent civility and value of your voice..