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How can science explain magic? كيف يمكن للعلم تفسير السحر؟
we all watched movies related to magic or sometimes black magic like harry potter
but i've been thinking if magic is something abnormal what is the scientific explanation for the magic?
AbdelRahman Siddig
very important lecture by Hamid Adam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avyJhq_dU5Y&feature=related
I wish some one can translated into English for the benefit of other
Ahmed B. El-Garrai
Abdul-Rahman El-Ammari
in my opinion magic here can be divided into tow sections :
1- explained and thats is like electro magnetism and radiation
2- un-explained yet and thats what the scientists should work on because living in a world with ungoverned phenomenas always been messy and unsafe .. .. uncertainty principle of Heisenberg showed us that we cannot determine the velocity and the position of an electron at the best results so i think this principle work everywhere
so still the question remains its not if science can or cannot i believe it can but how?
Michael M 30+
This is a good discussion.
AbdelRahman Siddig
then we can easily tell if science can explain it or not and why
if you refering to the magic mentioned in Quran which seprate a man from his wife
this sort of magic is a deal between a man and jinny
and scinec does not believe in jinny that why it can not explain it
S.R. Ahmadi 20+
1-making illusion in view (sense) of people using errors of human senses.
so science can explain this magic by knowing human errors and the process of magic and its relation to human errors.
2- using some powers of Jinns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn
they are creatures like humans leaving around earth and they are not material and we can not see them. they can go in future or past in time and have no limit in place. they can go quick to other place and do somethings for you. or other abilities. they have family and society like humans. I do not think science can detect them using material instruments and tools. some people doing predicting/prognostication/soothsaying/communicating dead people/... use help of Jinns.
for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9ance
but most of people doing such works are cheaters and only get money and tell some lie that will be right in any condition.
but some of them really have such abilities.
Tim blackburn 30+
Kristofer Björnson 10+
Abdul-Rahman El-Ammari
Tim blackburn 30+
Kristofer Björnson 10+
Levitation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etSivpBHUmE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IROur6dahU8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfE_Y-XE69g
Beneath the skin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRSw5THu0o4&feature=fvwrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ooUWxOItw
Regarding the psychological effects in for example hypnosis. A quite intersting show where a regular person was turned into a fake faith healer and that shines some light on how large amount of people can be fooled into believeing that they are witnessing true miracles can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYjgeayfYPI
It is also intersting to watch Keith Barry here on TED who not claims to be doing any true magic, but I am still unable to explain how he does what he do:
http://www.ted.com/talks/keith_barry_does_brain_magic.html
Abdul-Rahman El-Ammari
what i meant by magic is not tricks not illusions but what i meant is the breaking of the physical laws sometimes this includes rituals
i heard that elves are living in a world with different physical laws what make us unable to feel them
Kristofer Björnson 10+
I don't mean to say that there are things that exists that we don't understand, or not have seen yet. In the 18th century noone would have proposed that electromagnetic waves existed, even less that there was something such as black holes. It didn't mean that they didn't exist, just that they were to strange for people to make up in their mind at the time. With time eveidences for their existens did come and we do now believe in their existence.
With elves I think it is the other way around. They are easy for us to imagine and people like to believe in them, and people get reinforced in believing in their existence because other people also believe in them and talk about them. But in reality I am quite sure noone has actually seen one. And because we now have explored the earths surface to such an extent that we would have expected to find one if they existed, some people keep inventing new reasons that we don't see them because we so dearly want them to exist that we rather come up with strange explanations for why we don't see them than let go of our belief in them.
Does my view on it make sense?
Salim Solaiman 50+
Michael M 30+
Abdul-Rahman El-Ammari
i thought i was the only one who think this way am not sure of this but i saw in a documentary movie that the strings theory has 5 versions and all of them are mathematically right but only one version of them can be applied in our world the question was : '' if we are living in this world who is living in the other 4 worlds?''
in the matter fact i still don't realize how along all these centuries nothing was revealed about this issue and still the physics we know is standing still toward these activities such as the board game ''The Ouija Board''
AbdelRahman Siddig
Kristofer Björnson 10+
Michael M 30+
Kristofer
You have asked if I can detail some of my experiences. I can. I will give you two different examples of what I mean. One is very tied to Latin culture; the other is a specific story from W. Africa.
Magic here is not what an illusionist does, nor is it “breaking natural laws.” Magic is the manipulation of this real world through supernatural means. I believe there is such a thing as a magical world. There are worldview elements, shared by most non-western cultures, which reflect this magical element. One thing that is terribly difficult for westerners to understand is that this is not superstition, or ignorance, it is a daily way of life. It is “practiced” by all economic and educational strata. It is a way of life that says there is a reality that can be bent through the use or manipulation of these supernatural powers. It is found not just in “primitive” cultures (a term I detest), but in developed countries all around the world.
I lived for almost 20 years in Mexico. It is a wonderful country. In Mexico, whether it is The Virgin of Guadalupe, a local saint, traditional indigenous practices or even evangelical Pentecostalism, people believe that through ritual, beliefs, and devotion, they can change how the world works because of their commitment. Healings of physical ailments take place, people are saved from imminent catastrophe, people are delivered from harm. These are not simple “campesinos” that practice these things the practices cut across all economic lines. It is a magical world because they believe they are changing reality.
Michael M 30+
The literary world has a name for a certain genre of writing that has been called “magical realism.” It is typified by authors like Laura Esquivel, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, and Isabel Allende. These authors, that some North Americans call “fantastical” writers, are actually describing how this magical worldview looks and acts, and feels. They describe this magical world that seems even ridiculous to some, in wonderful stories. I would recommend any of their books.
The next example is a very personal one. I was in West Africa, in Benin, one of the homes of what is called voodoo in the West. I will relate the story and you can judge its power and veracity yourself. I was working on a study of some of the evangelical churches in the country. A pastor related a story of how he had gone to a new village, was living there, but was facing great opposition from the leaders of the indigenous voodoo practices. A recent convert ran to his home one day in tears, one of her puppies out of a litter had died. She saw this as a curse that had come on her home. This was a very serious matter. All animals belonging to a family are considered very dear. To curse the home and make one of the animals die was seen as a very violent act. The pastor prayed and the puppy was healed. It was not dead. It was seen as a sign by the villagers, that the pastor and his beliefs had more power than the person who threw the curse.
I know that some reading the last paragraph will say, well that’s nice, but obviously the puppy wasn’t dead, why would a puppy have such impact, it is just a dog; they only thought it was dead. You can rationalize all you care to about this story. I have heard all of it before. I personally believe the story took place as described.
Michael M 30+
Abdul’s original question had to do with science “explaining” magic. It is impossible to do. The West, when it adopted rationalism eliminated completely the possibility of a magical world. If it cannot be explained by reason, then it does not exist. I totally disagree with that worldview. In the end that is the problem, there are two distinct worldviews colliding with one another. The best analogy I have found is this: One is speaking a language of rationalism; the other is speaking a language of magic. They cannot understand each other.
I am sorry this response is so long, but I could not fit it into just one space. I would be happy to dialogue about anything I say in this answer.
Kristofer Björnson 10+
I don't think the main oposition to "magical phenomena" from a scientific point of view so much is about the irrationality of them as it is about the inability to provide examples of their existense. I think every true scientist would be more than willing to investigate any magical phenomena, because in a sense that is what sciense is about.
In physics for example, the phenomenas of electromagnetism, gravity, or quantum mechanics are all at the moment things that not can be explained by rationality. And the search for a "vis viva" (living force of matter) in the 17th and 18th century eventualy lead to the concept of energy. All of these concepts started out being very magical but through repeated exposure to them people eventualy were able to find out that all these phenomenas very very lawbound, and to discover very exact and simple descriptions of these laws.
Electromagnetism and gravity is extreamly predictable from the theory (even though system complexities can make even these concepts very unpredicatable as approximations has to be applied to solve real world problems). But even though it is very well understood which laws these phenomenas obey, it is not rationaly clear why they do so. For quantum mechanics things are even more "magical" as it not seem to obey any deterministic laws at all, but rather just statistical ones.
So I would say that science is more than willing to consider "magical phenomenas". I think the main problem with many of the claimed magical phenomenas is that they allways are described in second or third hand and it is impossible to tell if the phenomena actually did occur, if someone just believed it occured, or if the story even just was made up. And most of the time it seems much more likely that it is the later two, or a combination thereof that is the proper explanation.
Kristofer Björnson 10+
This video that I posted in another thread was very intersting to me because it agrees so well with the suspissions I hade throught the time when I had many friends that were quite into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYjgeayfYPI
Michael M 30+
Vineet Tripathi
As for magic in Harry Potter, I am sure J. K. Rowling author of Harry Potter sure must have answer for them. ;)
Salim Solaiman 50+
Science definitely will not close the book by saying it to be MAGIC.
Ahmed B. El-Garrai
But you don't call that magic, did i am right?