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Are all of our actions motivated by our selfish nature?
Sure, there are the obvious things: making money, self-entertainment, sex, but even things we supposedly do for others are selfish to a degree. We serve others because we want to be good people, so these acts make us feel better. We even help others at our own expense for the same reason-- to be good people. Even our obligations are selfish to an extent. We did chores, for example, because it was in our best interest in the long-term, not just because it was a necessity.
Is it possible to commit a fully selfless action? Are we, by definition, completely selfish beings?
Topics:
human nature selfishness
Salim Solaiman 50+
When this "Feel Good" factor brings good for others, that I want say as a bit selfless action, contrary to it becomes an "Selfish" one.
Thomas Pisarchick 10+
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
I believe it is in our nature to be compassionate and empathic and to connect with others. Selfishness is a distortion that has arisen in the last 10% of human existence. Selfishness brings short-term gain and illusion of success but it does not lead to lasting fulfillment and satisfaction. I have worked with a number of people who are facing death. No one wishes they had been more selfish. None have tried to become more selfish in their last days. There is a natural tendency to focus on relationship and how well we have loved. Selfishness is the opposite of love.
Debra Smith 200+
Thomas Pisarchick 10+
Constantine Render
It wouldn't be correct to speak about altruism of a washing machine, washing someones' dirty socks. Only actions that a performer is aware of can be called altruistic. Altruist does good not for his joy, otherwise it would not be altruism. As the result of such a deed, a performer, instead of satisfaction, can get permanent ban from life(for example when a man pushes a girl out of cars' way and dies)
Altruism has been researched on the basis of great historical material. So, it evolved from herd instinct. One individual doesn't have any chance to survive w/o group. I will omit information about the nature of altruism and give its' definition. Altruism is genetically determined behavior, aimed at providing animal species more opportunities to survive, despite the harm to some individuals. You can find lots of illustrations to it.
And the answer to 2 of your question is: "no"
And to another question is: "yes"
Now guess what questions i mean :)
Ed Schulte 50+
"Could you put others first, and consider yourself next?
Surprisingly. perhaps, you will find that this approach
works even from a selfish viewpoint. Let me explain how
this is possible. You want happiness and do not want
suffering, and if you show other people kindness. love,
and respect, they will respond in kind, increasing your
happiness. If you show other people anger and hatred.
they will show you the same. and you will lose your own
happiness.
So, I say, if you are selfish, be wisely selfish. Ordinary
selfishness focuses only on your own needs. but if you are
wisely selfish. you will treat everyone just as well as you
now treat those close to you. This strategy will produce
more satisfaction for you, and more happiness. So,
even from a selfish viewpoint. you get better results by
respecting others, serving others, and reducing your own
self-centeredness.
Be wisely selfish. Wise people serve others sincerely,
putting the needs of others above their own. The ultimate
result will be that you will get more happiness. The kind of
selfishness that sets off fighting, quarreling, stealing, and
harsh words- forgetting other people's welfare, always
thinking "i, i, i," will result in your own loss. Others
may speak nice words in front of you, but behind your
back they will not speak so nicely. They will make note of
your selfishness and respond in kind. The remedy is to be
sincerely concerned with the well-being of others, and to
act accordingly.
After all, even though currently you may not be
concerned with other people, you are very much concerned
with yourself. no question about it, which means that you
must want to achieve a peaceful mind and a happier daily
life. The best way to do that is by practicing more kindness
and tolerance. if you are calm, even your enemy cannot disturb
you. However, if you are generally irritable, even when
your best friend visits, you cannot become really happy.
This is why I say that you are better off being wisely
selfish
natasha nikulina 50+
Sounds quite attainable in theory, but to"show other people kindness, love and respect" one must have this, and if one does, everything will come with. The question is how to get to this point?
Alan Bishop
A building is on fire. You do not know the people in the building. You hear young and old people crying for help. You have a sense that you can rescue some people. At the same time you are aware that you could be putting your own life at risk. What would you do?
Some people selflessly would go into the fire and start rescuing people. Some people who do this die in the process.
If, as you say, all actions are motivated by a selfish nature how do you account for acts of heroism?
George L
I'm not even one for selfishness, but as I've said before, perhaps we need a re-definition of 'selfish' or a neologism to describe the arguably 'selfish' yet 'selfless' motive.
Krisztián Pintér 200+
so this frame of thinking is not very useful. if we do something to help another being, and then we feel better because of it, it should not be classified as selfishness. it is, by definition, selflessness. and thus the answer to the question is a definite no. we very often act selflessly.
so what you did here, is a tricky play on the definition of the word. you defined it to include everything, and then asked if there is anything outside of it.
lynn eschbach 30+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
so yes, selfishness is in our genes, just like every animals' genes, but much less so.
Ed Schulte 50+
" Along with selfishness, anger
is one of the most serious problems facing the world
today. "
Only human beings can judge and reason; we
understand consequences and think in the long term.
Human beings also can develop infinite love, whereas
animals have only limited forms of affection and love.
However, when humans become angry, all this potential
is lost. No enemy armed with mere weapons can undo
these qualities, but anger can. It is the destroyer.
When
animals act out of lust or hatred, they do so temporarily or
superficially; they are incapable of committing destruction
in ever-increasing strength and variety. However, humans
can think from a great many points of view. Because our
intelligence is so effective, humans can achieve good and
bad on a grand scale.
When we look deeply into such things,
the blueprint
for our actions can be found within the mind. Self defeating
attitudes arise not of their own accord but out of
ignorance. Success, too, is found within ourselves. From
self-discipline, self-awareness, and clear realization of the
defects of anger and the positive effects of kindness, come
happiness and peace.
For instance, at present, you may
be a person who gets easily irritated. However, with clear
understanding and awareness, your irritability first can be
undermined, and then replaced.
If we allow love and compassion to be dominated
by anger, we will sacrifice the best part of our human
intelligence-wisdom, which is our ability to decide
between right and wrong. Along with selfishness, anger
is one of the most serious problems facing the world
today.
Anger plays a large role in current conflicts, such
as those in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa, as well as
those between highly industrialized and economically
undeveloped nations. These conflicts arise from a failure
to understand how much we have in common.
Tim Colgan 50+
Yes.
Does that make us bad?
E G 10+
Tim Colgan 50+
Debra Smith 200+
Tim do you belong to the dark side of total self interest?
I cannot believe that the man who engaged me in dialogue about schemas and led me step by step to see things more clearly was motivated by self interest. I perceive that your intent was to help ME on that occassion even though you couched it in exploring your own thought processes.
Am I misreading?
Tim Colgan 50+
"We serve others because we want to be good people, so these acts make us feel better."
Why is that bad?
E G 10+
"We serve others because we want to be good people, so these acts make us feel better." isn't it selfishness: to want to be good people ?
in my opinion we hardly ever continue to do something which make us feel bad ........... so again selfishness.
Debra Smith 200+
My observation is that you did a good deed. I do not thiink it was to tell yourself or others that you are a good person- do you?
Tim Colgan 50+
Circular reasoning? Or a coherent world-view?
Debra Smith 200+
We previously discussed schema modification and that it causes us some anxiety but in some strongly held schemas there is very little that can assail them. (You have encountered that with religious thought.) One thing we did not address though, was that there are many many schemas and they do combine into a complete world view. You can have circular reasoning in any one domain without using it as a general tool in life.
The concept of goodness is one of that caliber. I cannot imagine many people simply altering their 'goodness' schema to conform- at least seldomly upward (peer pressure usually brings goodness downward, no?) Even then if a person was trying to impress someone like a boss or a date their goodness compromise would be situation specific not permanent.
You are no wuss so I am having fun pushing you a bit- did you have anything whatsoever to gain from being kind to me- a woman you never met and probably will never meet?You know that I am one of the hold outs that believes altruism exists! I do not deny that everyone of us exhibits selfishness at times. I just believe that there are people whose goodness lifts to the level of selflessness.
Remember that plane crash a few years ago where that man stayed in the freezing water to help others out?
Austin R 20+
I would like to know your definition of "selfish", because I was originally under the impression that "selfish" simply meant having regard for one's well-being in a given decision (regardless of how much regard they have for others). But now I'm getting the impression that "selfish" is defined as someone being concerned with the well-being of him or herself more than the well-being of others.
Debra Smith 200+
Here is the dictionary.com definition of the word
self·ish /ˈsɛlfɪʃ/
[sel-fish]
–adjective
1. devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.
Austin R 20+
Debra Smith 200+
There are examples of altruism everywhere- many people just dismiss them, fird them too painful to observe or explain them away.
The most profound examples come from children's behaviours. How do we explain the little girl who stays silent in the face of sexual abuse because the victimizer threatened to do the same to her little sister?
Or the child who directs the attention of an abusive parent onto himself because wants to save his younger siblings?
Or that man who stays in the freezing water to help the other vicitims of an airplane crash out of the water.
Or the man who faces down the invading patrols' guns to preserve his family.
Who can really believe that any of these did this to get some kind of glory, feel good about themselves or promote the continuation of the species. I could never be that cynical.
If they are merely preserving their schemas and world view- I maintain that they have a world view based on UNSELFISHNESS.
natasha nikulina 50+
Could it be what we call " altruism " ?
Tim Colgan 50+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g
Starting at time 0:46 is a description of MRI experiments about empathy (both chimps and humans).
Debra Smith 200+
These are the very facts that make my heart sing and my world view optimistic. I think we are primarily formed for attachment and caring. Something is very wrong when those inate qualities go off the rails.
For me, the ways societies have functioned until now is the good has conformed in the face of small but powerful forces who are malfunctioning human beings. Those who are broken have the powerful coersive force of violence on their side (hence the idea of 'you and whose army?')
natasha nikulina 50+
One cannot cause pain to another without causing pain to oneself.
In John Donne's famous words
"No man is an island ,intire of itself:every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main...
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee"
The measure of our failure to understand this is the measure of our immaturity as species.
Debra Smith 200+
Here is the dictionary.com definition of altruism.
al·tru·ism /ˈæltruˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled
[al-troo-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1. the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others ( opposed to egoism).
2. Animal Behavior . behavior by an animal that may be to its disadvantage but that benefits others of its kind, as a warning cry that reveals the location of the caller to a predator.
I would agree based on the definition above with the idea that we would see ourselves as part of the whole. I am not in alignment with the idea that suffering necessarily brings it about. If you have the opportunity please see the great video Tim posted below from RSA in Britian on the topic of empathy as illuminated by neuroscientists. I think the preponderence of evidence indicates that we are hardwired to belong to and care for one another. The role of suffering is a huge theological issue which, to me, indicates that suffering can tear down the selfish tendencies if we have previously chosen them as ways of interacting. Suffering can make us actually FEEL what another feels is we do not voluntarily choose or do not have the capacity to choose to engage with empathy. Am I making any sense?
natasha nikulina 50+
How can we understand, really understand, the inner sensation that reflects and communicates the state of near-perfect communion with all people and even more, -all creation?
The truthfull answer is that we cannot.
Human consciousness must evolve to the state of no boundary between self and other.
" Thou art that" state.
Then there will be no altruism or sacrifice, actually,no torment of choice, you do what is obviously better for the whole.
I asked you as a specialist in the field, is it possible for human concsiousnees to make that quality shift under the extraordinary circumstances? Maybe there is something in Christian idea?
Debra Smith 200+
So to stop squirming and actually answer your question- I think Christian principles of the self in relation to mankind have 'something' important in them. Personally, I hate to suffer. I have done too much of it. Often I found out what I was made of in such times of physical suffering and usually I found that I was pretty much the same person as I am in these posts under duress. I do also know that sometimes I suffered at the hands of people in ways that made me resolve that I would NEVER do such a thing to another person. (I was the first woman in a nontraditional field and I came to realize that I was not fully human to the people who tormented me- I was some other category in their mind that permitted cruelty -even among people who would have treated their own wives and daughters far differently). Thus suffering at the hands of people taught me much about selfishness and to have a wider and wider inclusiveness in my world view.
Having children shaped me even more. I am obviously an optimist to have 5 kids. If I had not believed that the world was very beautiful I would never have deliberately chosen to share the world with them and them with the world. But it was in the epiphany of their preciousness that I realized that everyone must be precious - that echoes the idea of one lost sheep and their relationship to God.
I am not sure what ultimately brought me to believe that doing what is best for the whole is the only way forward but I know that it is.
natasha nikulina 50+
There are no answers, only choices.
Tim Colgan 50+
But I think what we are really debating is whether our actions are guided by self-interest. We can discuss a few exceptional cases, but generally, the answer is yes.
Debra Smith 200+
Tim Colgan 50+
OK, so here is where I think we differ in our interpretation.
I think we typically elevate our own interest over others.
Although I don't subscribe to the libertarian ideology as a basis for constructing a government (or deconstructing a government?) I do think their interpretation of human nature is pretty accurate.
In general, we are so biased by our self-interest that we tend to minimize the effect of our actions on others. This, perhaps, is an inherent liability to being an independent sentient being.
Debra Smith 200+
I know that I am focusing on microcosms while you bring me evidence of macrocosms but I believe that the microcosms inform the ways the macrocosms can develop.
Tim Colgan 50+
Recognize that we are fundamentally self-interested, but also have the capacity for empathy. So structure our social systems around the dominant motivator (self-interest) and draw on empathy where possible.
Of course, you could attempt to stress the Golden Rule and try to structure a society around that as a foundation. But I think the Middle Ages showed how useful that approach is.
Debra Smith 200+
Your suggested approach is the one I feel that we have to take. There is NO endorsement for imposing one right way in me because no one could have forced me to think a way that I did not choose for myself (perhaps you noticed : ))
There are too many ways of thinking and too many people to ever be the 'thought police' to -so the pragmatic way is to hold up the ideal, call out to others and listen to the inspiring voices while going about our individual business in the best way we see fit. Those who climb to the highest ground become beacons and our Extreme athletes of spirit who we can be inspired by.
George L
Furthermore, the ability to empathise makes us not purely selfish. As Daniel has said, the goal isn't to get good feelings in many empathetic acts and empathy creates 'community'. Perhaps a tighter definition of 'selfish' needs to be introduced?
E G 10+
I think is possible to commit a fully selfless action but not by our nature.
Daniel Beringer
Austin R 20+
Good point. I can see how our satisfaction that results from such actions could be thought of rather as a bonus.