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Would world become better if there were no Ego??? How to overcome "ego" ???
Often I observe how EGO doesn’t allow people to do a social good …
And often think that world might become better if people were less Egocentric.
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
And… I also experienced this great feeling of Ubuntu here, because same great people helped me with facilitation and with the idea of making something out of the wisdom we collected her… in the middle of our conversation “I” become “we” and hope “we”’ll continue working on passing to the next stage of our conversation ….:)
Ubuntu forever and inner balance and harmony to all of us :)
Colleen Steen 200+
Aftab Ahmad
In the same way, take this analogy on human beings. They are also composed of two main things, Animal + Soul = Human being. Human beings are not merely the animals, neither they are souls So the human beings have the qualities of both. So both the power should remain in their own limits. If one element gets more stronger that our ego will destroy the world. Hence balancing the two elements would bring positive results in the world. It will don wonders
Ed Schulte 30+
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Colleen Steen 200+
And "know thyself", which helps us find the balance that works best for us as individuals, and for the whole of humankind:>)
Debra Smith 100+
Well done!
Melissa Csikszentmihályi 50+
"Selfishness and altruism are things that I can present you with an image of a symbolic tree, where the root of the tree sucks everything but everything from the soil, that feeds him, in order to share this in his canopy."
http://dotsub.com/view/c67935cf-081b-42d4-b9a8-86b00fa170aa
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Frank Consoli
However, on the topic of doing social good, perhaps ego contributes to social good, or at the least, the funding of good works to be done by others.
Go to the society page of the Sunday paper and look at all the money raised for worthy social causes. People will write big checks to be included in that group. What can be a bigger ego pump than to be acknowledged as a philanthropist, community leader, and overall good and caring citizen.
Cody Stephenson
Steve Graeff
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
just semantics
:>)
vikram reddy
thats a good Question from you ........the world would become much more beter where dere would be no problem of thinking about god also if there were no ego.....
every thing in the life would change the...if there s no ego in mans heart nd brain
nd u asked how to overcome the ego
just feeling the person as our family member such as like father or mother or sister or brother etc........were u can overcome the ego
i feel like that so i said.........
Ed Schulte 30+
ANE Chapter 2 “The Current State of Humanity”
But we cannot really honor things if we use them as a means to self-enhancement, that is to say, if we try to find ourselves through them. This is exactly what the ego does. Ego-identification with things creates attachment to things, obsession with things, which in turn creates our consumer society and economic structures where the only measure of progress is always more. The unchecked striving for more, for endless growth, is a dysfunction and a disease. It is the same dysfunction the cancerous cell manifests, whose only goal is to multiply itself, unaware that it is bringing about its own destruction by destroying the organism of which it is a part. Some economists are so attached to the notion of growth that they can’t let go of that word, so they refer to recession as a time of “negative growth.”
…………
“Whatever the ego seeks and gets attached to are substitutes for the Being that it cannot feel. You can value and care for things, but whenever you get attached to them, you will know it’s the ego. And you are never really attached to a thing but to a thought that has ‘I,’ ‘me,’ or ‘mine’ in it. Whenever you completely accept a loss, you go beyond ego, and who you are, the I Am which is consciousness itself, emerges.”
……………..
Is it wrong then to be proud of one’s possessions or to feel resentful toward people to have more than you? Not at all. That sense of pride, of needing to stand out, the apparent enhancement of one’s self through “more than” and diminishment through “less than” is neither right nor wrong – it is the ego. The ego isn’t wrong; it’s just unconscious. When you observe the ego in yourself, you are beginning to go beyond it. Don’t take the ego too seriously.
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Thanks a lot!!!,
Ed Schulte 30+
yes there are a few but none so available ( as in free of the wed network) and yet so clear and NOT leading one further in and Strengthening the Ego.
By that I am referring to the set Help and New Age Spiritual "Industry" loaded with recommendation of how to "kill the ego" etc etc which is nothing but another Trick Ego uses to survive.
What I post was simply notes used as part of an ongoing sharing group formed around Tolles works we continue it along with the ET-TV and other parallels such as HHtDL 's "how to be compassionate" ( tother recommendation ) the purpose is to "disentangle" as ET says ( see full quote below) which can only be do by, as others have said here "know thy self" .....which if one is to be complete about it "know thy self from within thy Greater Self" Capital "S"elf being that which you always were, always will be, and ego itself ? a shell-with no energy feeding it
"When you don’t cover up the world with words and labels, a sense of the miraculous returns to your life that was lost a long time ago when humanity, instead of using thought, became possessed by thought. A depth returns to your life. Things regain their newness, their freshness. And the greatest miracle is the experiencing of your essential self as prior to any words, thoughts, mental labels, and images. For this to happen, you need to disentangle your sense of I, of Beingness, from all the things it has become mixed up with, that is to say, identified with. That disentanglement is what this book is about." ...The ego isn't wrong; it's just unconscious. When you observe the ego in yourself, you are beginning to go beyond it. Don't take the ego too seriously. When you detect egoic behavior in yourself, smile. At times you may even laugh. How could humanity have been taken in by this for so long? Above all, know that the ego isn't personal. It isn't who you are. If you consider the ego to be your personal problem, that's just more ego
Ed Schulte 30+
I pointed to HHtDL's 'How to be compassionate" . Of course he too address Ego but he does also go a great depth into ...Ego wants vs True Self and its desire(s) ...Because he does this first, like the Christian Mystic Daskalos (I suspect there are Researcher of Truth Circles in your area) he can uses the 'word' Ego in TWO completely different contexts ...
so one has to have a solid understanding of the True nature and Structure of Consciousness tucked away before discussing Ego or it will quickly become an Egoic exercise :-(
Here is an example quote. from 'How to be Compassionate'
A STRONG WILL
It is important to aspire to bring about the well-being of others, and to develop that desire so that it becomes stronger and stronger. This is not attachment because it is not mixed with afflictive emotions. This strong aspiration arises from detachment.
A strong ego is needed for this work, without your becoming egotistical. You need a strong will to achieve good. I t is helpful to make a wish to develop a strong self in order to be able to help all beings, for a weak self could never bring your virtuous intentions to fruition. This kind of desire is reasonable and does not involve attachment. It is the one to adopt in your practice.
Unreasonable desire is to be diminished and discarded because of its narrowness.
Ed Schulte 30+
One of the most basic mind structures through which the ego comes into existence is identification. The word “identification” is derived from the Latin word idem, meaning “same” and facere, which means “to make.” So when I identify with something, I “make it the same.” The same as what? The same as I. I endow it with a sense of self, and so it becomes part of my “identity.” One of the most basic levels of identification is with things: My toy later becomes my car, my house, my clothes, and so on. I try to find myself in things but never quite make it and end up losing myself in them. That is the fate of the ego.
………………..
What kind of things you identify with will vary from person to person according to age, gender, income, social class, fashion, the surrounding culture, and so on. What you identify with is all to do with content; whereas, the unconscious compulsion to identify is structural. It is one of the most basic ways in which the egoic mind operates.
Paradoxically, what keeps the so-called consumer society going is the fact that trying to find yourself through things doesn’t work: The ego satisfaction is short-lived and so you keep looking for more, keep buying, keep consuming.
…………….
Ed Schulte 30+
for this thread ....that contents demonstrate the scope of Ego so before it closes I wish to post a few clips from Eckhart Tolle' s bright overview of EGO in his "A New Earth"
ANE Chapter 2 “The Current State of Humanity”
…….
The word “I” embodies the greatest error and the deepest truth, depending on how it is used. In conventional usage, it is not only one of the most frequently used words in the language (together with the related words: “me,” “my,” “mine,” and “myself”) but also one of the most misleading. In normal everyday usage, “I” embodies the primordial error, a misperception of who you are, an illusory sense of identity. This is the ego. This illusory sense of self is what Albert Einstein, who had deep insights not only in to the reality of space and time but also into human nature, referred to as “an optical illusion of consciousness.” That illusory self then becomes the basis for all further interpretations, or rather misinterpretations of reality, all thought processes, interactions, and relationships. Your reality becomes a reflection of the original illusion…………..
This mental construct is what you normally refer to when you say “I.” To be more precise: Most of the time it is not you who speaks when you say or think “I” but some aspect of that mental construct, the egoic self. Once you awaken, you still use the word “I,” but it will come from a much deeper place within yourself.
…………….. The egoic mind is completely conditioned by the past. Its conditioning is twofold: It consists of content and structure.
………………….
The reason why such acute suffering occurs is concealed in the word “my,” and it is structural. The unconscious compulsion to enhance one’s identity through association with an object is built into the very structure of the egoic mind.
Jake Broadhurst 50+
Philipp Wettmann
I think we wandt a better world, because we are egoistic.
We do not wish others to suffer, because it makes us suffer too. We wandt others to feel joy, because it makes us happy too.
I am not shure how we would judge a world to be better or worse if we had no ego or why we would act in it.
Cornelia Coricovac
Colleen Steen 200+
As another person insightfully says..."know thyself".
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
.....
Cornelia Coricovac: You cannot chose not to have an ego because this means not having the opportunity to behave like an “angel”, without an ego you can’t show love, compassion, care, etc. So the world would be a better place if we have a positive ego, if we grow and develop our positive ego, if we manage wiser our negative ego. How to overcome negative ego ? Embrace, study, understand, accept and love yourself deeply....
Ed Schulte 30+
it comes down to the differentiation between "need" and "Desire" ( which is why I added the Tolle content)
self ( with a little "s") needs ..survives on reflected love
Self's (with a Capital "S") "desires" only that which it is ...it IS Love ....therefore has no external / reflected needs....it thrives on Unconditional ( Non-reflected) Love ...always thrives on and rise to higher states of Consciousness through Love.
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
vikas gupta
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
inthegarden beyondthecave
What am "I"?
I am "spirit." By this I mean I have cares and concerns. I can suffer. I can enjoy.
If no one existed who had cares and concerns, If no one existed to suffer or experience enjoyment, nothing would matter. The only reason anything matters is that "spirit" matters. In other words, the only reason anything matters is that beings who have cares and concerns matter. Thus spirit hasintrinsic, original, unconditional value. All other value derives from their cares and concerns.
When a spirit like us has a purpose, that purpose becomes valuable. Everything that serves that purpose acquires some positive value as a means. Everything that obstructs the purpose takes on negative value as an obstacle.
The point is that every moment of spirit has intrinsic, non-derivative, unconditional value. that is true whether that moment of spirit resides within the boundaries of yourself, or within the boundaries of myself.
But what is that boundary that divides spirit into different selves? It is ignorance! We are separated from each other by the fact that we do not experience each other's cares and concerns as directly and concretely as we experience our own. Thus, it is by way of a defect in knowledge that my self exists as a separate thing from your self. When our love for spirit is mixed with our ignorance of spirit beyond ourselves, the consequence is that we are moved much more strongly to serve the spirit we know than the spirit we do not know. In this way, ignorance twists us away from the true aim of love of spirit which would be to serve spirit.
My untwisted self is this spirit I am that loves and serves spirit. My twisted self is the spirit I am that loves and prefers to serve the only the spirit that is singled out by my ignorance.
The problem is not the EGO, but rather, the ignorance that imprisons it. The proper treatment is not devaluation of my spirit, but an aspiriation for empathy.
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Cole Barnshaw
How can you say that a lack of ego will result in less care.
A person without ego would think completely logically, if something is not fair the one who has less ego will likely be the one to refuse to accept the situation until it is fair.
One who says "why should I care" is in fact thinking with not less ego but more ego.
Ego can best be described as a smudging of reality, or a filter that alters how we perceive reality.
Without this filter we see the cold hard truth and this can enable us to accomplish more.
Ego can come in negative or positive connotation, but without ego all together you have total balance.
Think about how balanced uni cellular organisms are.
Uni cellular organism aren't worried about anything.
They don;t have ego, they are the result of pure logic. Instinct is logic.
Our instinct is far more superior to that of a uni cellular organism, but it is the same concept
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
..I only want to say to you Cole & Beyond the Cave that you are spekaing to each other from distant points on a circle where you could meet up..but I am not sure the last few day s of this wonderful discussion will accomplish that
..I am a contemplative and immersed , I think, in many of the same wisdom traditions from which my friend speaks. The challenge to us..me & my friend..is to speak in a manner that is accessible and comrpehensible and useful in a more universal way.
There is much wisom in what my friend has said.I understand perfectly what you are saying, Cole, .I think..for right now..this will not get resolved..but I ask you to hold what beyond the cave has said and your comments somewhere where later you can look at them again. The same for my friend., Beyond the Cave.
gWhat is the point of wisdom which cannot serve all immediately in perfect clarity? If wisdom is offered and even one person doesn;t understand..the gift needs honing or maybe we ourselves are not quite there yet??
Cole..keep these questions.
In time they will be answered.
inthegarden beyondthecave
You said:
"One who says "why should I care" is in fact thinking with not less ego but more ego. Ego can best be described as a smudging of reality, or a filter that alters how we perceive reality. Without this filter we see the cold hard truth and this can enable us to accomplish more. "
I quite agree with Lindsay that your questions are insightful and to the point.
It seems to me that your difference with me is partly semantic. I mentioned two selves: the self twisted by ignorance, and the self that is not twisted by ignorance. What you are talking about as the EGO as a filter is what I called the twisted self. What you call the absence of EGO is what I call the untwisted self. I do not think that we can completely become an untwisted self or, in your words, completely eliminate the filter of the EGO. We do not have enough neurons to see the world from every other persons (or spirits) perspective and one simply cannot fully love that which one does not know since one's love has no real target to shoot at. What we can aspire to do is to remove bits and pieces of our ignorance by actively attempting to e empathetic. In your way of speaking, we can aspire towards being less blinded by our EGO.
The main reason I choose to speak differently than you have ( to use "twisted self" and "untwisted self") is that the contrast between EGO and no EGO leaves confusion about what getting rid of the EGO is. I think it is overcoming ignorance. There would still be a "self" there if we could completely get rid of ignorance. Its boundary would just be all incompassing (like we imagine God's self to be). One would be a self that knows completely all phenomena.
You ask me to explain my assumption that ignorance is not caused by the EGO. We are born infinitely ignorant, or if we have some inate or instinctual "knowledge", it is not far reaching. An infant has a lot to learn to catch up with the rest of us. So the EGO is not responsible for our original condition.
inthegarden beyondthecave
One more thing I could not fit in the last post:
I quite agree that EGO (the twisted self) generates more ignorance. Ignorance begets ignorance. It leads us down the wrong path(s).
It is my suggestion that the right path is empathy and the second and third person perspectives that empathy generates. It is only with those perspectives that we are able to generate and maintain the methods of investigation that characterize the academic disciplines: the natural and social sciences, interpretation of texts, history, etc.
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Cole Barnshaw
They must be consisted of matter, if they contain emotion.
My point being we will never see through another human being's perspective.
Perspective is an illusion, it causes humans to perceive reality for what it is in perspective to our aspirations.
Everyone has different aspiration, therefore perspective is unique in every individual.
Without this "spirit" you described, without ego, then we will truly be able to unite as one and share the same perspective.
inthegarden beyondthecave
I appreciate your questions.
I have very strong scientific leanings. I do not believe that we can overcome the laws of nature. I use the word "spirit" rather than "consciousness" or "mind" because I think it conveys something more than either of those words. When we speak of a person's "spirit", we are speaking of something more than intellect or mind or consciousness. We are speaking of something that includes those things, but also includes emotions and desires. That is my only purpose in using the word "spirit".
My primary interest has always been in Philosophy, and within Philosophy, my primary interest is Ethics. In my reflections upon Ethics, I have come to believe that this category of beings I call "spirits" is the most important category.
I do not believe that spirits float out of their bodies. I am deeply commited to believing in the power and value of the natural sciences.
What I do believe is that there are two different languages we use to talk about ourselves. One is the language in which we describe ourselves as physical bodies. The other language is one in which we describe ourselves as beings with thoughts and emotions. Whereas the talk about bodies always takes place from a third person perspective, the first, second, and third person perspectives are all very important to our talk about thoughts and emotions. It is within this second kind of language that values appear. Ethics simply disappears as a subject matter if we refuse to listen to the first and second person perspectives.
I do not claim that any of us could acheive perfect understanding of any other person. We are human. We only have so many neurons to work with. The ignorance I speak of is not something that can be completely overcome, at least not in this life in this body. If it happens that there is an after life (or after lives) in modified bodies or in radically different kinds of realities, we must wait to see what the situation is then.
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
I am so enjoying thi sexchnage between the two of you..and just so moved that you arewilling to work with each other in thi way..
This is what Ted Converstions is all bout
You both have my deepest respect
Sherri Hammond
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Bob Van Oosterhout: Thinking about the "self" is a distraction from taking "real" action. I believe our most effective action occurs when we let go of the sense of self and become totally engrossed in what we are engaged in. Thinking about self is always in the past or future. When we are fully present in the moment, we don't think of self.
Lindsay Newland Bowker: In some circles ego is called "the small self" or the "false self"..it is all our broken and ineffectual operating systems collected over a life time and it is the biggest barrier to self actualization..to realization of our full potential it is what keeps us from aliening mind, heart and will.
11. A frame based on “us” is larger and more flexible. We have access to more information and a broader understanding of our surroundings. “Us” frames allows us to see our connectedness and interdependency. They provide space for exploration and reflection. Problems become easier to solve because we are able to more fully understand where they came from and how they can be addressed to bring about lasting solutions.
12. Self-judgment fades into the background. Being free from the effort of promoting and protecting a self-image allows us to make mistakes and learn from them. It becomes easier to ask forgiveness and to forgive. We recognize limitations, resources, and opportunities. We can learn to choose our frames. We can choose compassion instead of defensiveness, hope instead of fear, personal responsibility instead of blame, “us” instead of “me.” I believe this works better for us and for me.
Cole Barnshaw
Earth?
Absolutely. No ego = completely logical state of mind,
-This would eliminate roughly all emotional attachment to religion. +1 for no ego. (still some who would logically believe in god, but essentially without ego theism would become obsolete.)
-This would eliminate the argument that we do not need to do anything about global climate change. Humans would probably see that it is in fact occurring, but even if they were not sure they would see that it is better safe than sorry. (consequences of no action in the case that it happens > consequences of action in the case that it does not happen)
Humans?
Well you can expect to see little if not zero humans who are theistic purely out of faith and emotional attachment.
According to almost all religions, faith > logic.
Logic says otherwise.
Probably a completely balanced society.
Little to no personal motivation.
Less happiness, but also less depression/sadness.
Neutrality.
Aasems Jacob 500+
Paul van Zoggel
The ego will drive civilizations AGAIN, though now on a planetary level rather than a national or religious level. Though how can we ring alarms if EGO goes to far again?
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Here are a few great quotes about this .... that I separated from our decision on EGO…
Mick Hickey: Ego, in the absolute, I don't believe is an issue. A sense of self and focusing on that I feel does not contain a negative consequence. The focus on superiority or, conversely, the inferiority of others, is where the danger lies for the world. By seeing others a "lesser" in some way provides the basics for prejudice, exclusion and violence.
B.V.Oosterhout: Ego is viewing ourselves larger or more important than we are. This implies that we recognize our personal needs, potential and gifts without overemphasizing their value. Viewing us as more important than others leads to creation of a frame where wellbeing of others isn't seen. Think of any human conflict/action that has lead to widespread pain/suffering. Ego likely had an important role.
clay blasdel
Paul van Zoggel
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Gad Baruch Hinkis
James Walker 30+
I wonder if I might throw in what might be a way of addressing, if not answering, your subsidiary question, "Often I observe how EGO doesn’t allow people to do a social good, and I think that world might become better if people were less Egocentric."
Ok, how about if we created a value system that encouraged people to do Social Good, but such a system that appealed to their egos. We all like fame, sex, money and power... so why fight it, let's embrace it. Let's accept we're ego-centric, self-driven folks, but harness that to do good.
Just like Money has being a fantastic Reward for innovation in the Post industrial Revolution West, let's think of something that can appeal to the ego as a new currency?
(Btw, I don't like the words Social [implies an acceptance of the concept of Society being thrust on you] or Good [implies that someone/some people arbitrate what is Good or Bad] but I get this gist of what you mean).
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
You suggest to created a value system that encouraged people to do Social Good, a system that appealed to their egos... well, To me, ego is not something very positive, I realize that we all have one, but I believe we need to learn to balance it , I would rather put an effort of developed a value system that encouraged people to do Social Good and feed their compassion....Anyway I also believe that EGO can generate a lot of energy which can become a source of great deals in our life....It seems to me that you are talking about this, we just need to learn to balance and manage our energy ... and also if we could invest it in something "good" that might have add a step toward becoming a "better world" :)
Thanks for commenting, did you have a chance to look at sum up section below and UBUNTU related part ??? What do you think???
Gad Baruch Hinkis
http://www.ted.com/conversations/3208/what_is_the_most_basic_law_of.html
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
The problem is that ego-centric thinking limits our vision. It creates a frame of self-interest. The interests of others are outside the frame and don’t become part of our reality. Ego creates a filter that only perceives what makes “me” feel good, it ignores information on the potential long term effects of my actions. “Helping people” becomes an abstraction that prevents me from understanding and connecting with them. Using an ego-centered frame and filter to limit our perception (and therefore definition) of reality makes it possible for us to harm others and destroy the environment in the quest for our own comfort and convenience.
Ego creates a blindness that allows us to harm others without realizing it. It creates a separateness that cuts us off from our essential nature. It feeds a distortion, that if I only do more for me, I will be safe and esteemed. Focusing on personal safety and esteem feeds fear and leads to suspicion, exclusion, prejudice and persecution. Ego leads to the desire to control. Conflicts over who is in control are the basis for most war and violence.
When ego separates me from others, I feel empty. I need motivation to be productive. I produce things that make me feel good for a little while but they do not connect me with others. I feel empty again. I need more motivation. Ego becomes an addiction that dries up the capacity for empathy and compassion.
Our nature is to connect with others. Ego limits and obstructs that. Developing potential requires openness, risk, and most often, suffering. Ego focuses on safety and security at the expense of others. It keeps us from seeing the security in being connected with others while developing our natural abilities.
Ego is bad for our world because it keeps us from becoming ourselves.
Colleen Steen 200+
I agree that ego CAN have all the ramifications you mention. I also believe in your statement: "We are able to see that every person has potential (just as we do). We can focus on things that make it possible (or at least don't obstruck) the ability for each person in our world to develop their potential".
When we are mindfull and aware of how ego-centric thinking limits us, we can make the choice to focus our attention in a more productive way. It feels like you have given ego a life of its own that will rule us in your comment above. We make choices:>)
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Thanks for mentioning about "MINDFULNESS" … There is a great website that I love to read… about mindfulness , mediation, AI and so on… I think this is a right place to share it with you all :)
http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/mindfulnessmeditation/ (by Stephanie West Allen )
Stephanie Allen
http://westallen.typepad.com/brains_on_purpose/2011/05/wishing-some-of-your-clients-were-a-bit-more-hypo-egoic.html
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Mindfulness can be a trap that centers focus on ourselves. It has become a technique and people have copyrighted training materials on how to do it.
I tried to overcome ego by being mindful of it back in the 70's when I was in my 20's and came out of that decade being just as self-centered but with an illusion of self-development. We don't get rid of something by focusing on it. The very act of focusing on something brings our attention to the place in our brain where that concept is located (try to not think about something...) Probably the most ego-centric thought is to believe one has overcome the ego.
Ego permeates modern culture and does, in many respects, rule us. The key is to develop an "us" mentality that replaces the "me" centered ego. This is an ongoing challenge rarely supported by modern culture.
Colleen Steen 200+
Anything can be a trap Bob, if we allow it to be. I'm suggesting being mindful in the moment, which is inclusive of everyone and everything around us. As I said in a previous comment, I don't think it's wise to try to "overcome" ego. I think it is more beneficial to recognize how we use it in ourselves. You are right...we don't get rid of something by focusing on it, which is why I suggested focusing on more productive behaviors while being aware of our ego. Again, I believe anything can only "rule us" if we allow it. My experience with mindfulness in the moment embraces the feeling of "us", and that is a choice I make. I think this challenge is becoming more supported by modern culture, because more of us are recognizing the connectivity of "us":>)
Paul van Zoggel
Where is the gas-station to fuel, take a deep breath and go for the selfless, compassionate society we all want to live in? Why does this system nail us down from highschool, we need EGO to survive?
Jump in the deep and suffer? Have hope it will all work out? It's easy to say afterwarts, when you have income from the good thing you do, but before? The 70's/80's have been good for the common good, there was (financial) space to experiment, though today?
You can't even visit your grandparents to collect food for the week from their garden. You can't even have a one person income for a home, so the partner can focus on children and/or a common good...
Build a house in the mountains is the only option?
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Ego creates a blindness that allows us to harm others without realizing it. It creates a separateness that cuts us off from our essential nature. It feeds a distortion, that if I only do more for me, I will be safe and esteemed. Focusing on personal safety and esteem feeds fear and leads to suspicion, exclusion, prejudice and persecution. Ego leads to the desire to control. Conflicts over who is in control are the basis for most war and violence. "
"
Gad Baruch Hinkis
tare it up, its not to long.
http://123.writeboard.com/9adf0xy32t76bpch/login
Password: the simple answer
cant wait to see it form into something out of my control!!!!
Paul van Zoggel
For me it boils down to this simplicity;
there are 5 everlasting material elements having relations/bindings : earth, fire, wind, water, aether
there are 5 everlasting immaterial elements having relations/bindings: thought, rhythm, me, we, tribe
Me = personal choice
We = global story
Tribe = contrast
Rhythm = patterns
Aether=thought
Than we have the individual and the planet/nature
These are 11 continents
Next to that we have 9 oceans/senses
See, Hear, Opt, Taste, Smell, Touch, Sense Time (Personal Aura), Sense Place (Place Aura), Sense Relations (Common Aura)
These are the so called '20' of the matrix, or icosahedron, The20... Is a book in progress by Kijp dy Ebi. I talked to this man, and he told me these 20. I am planning to help him to write a manifest and book about them.
Further I personally think there are 5 types of collaborations and communications: hyperactive-interactive-active-passive-static. Though most usual used are the middle 3 you refer to as facilitators, instigators and supporters.
Regards,
Paul
Gad Baruch Hinkis
i am not so much interested in defining the elements but rather how they form structures of interaction..
and to find the most basic law that is common to all elements/sets/groups in existence.
would you help me by testing my ideas and i will test yours???
Gad Baruch Hinkis
The Lights
http://123.writeboard.com/o72r6vphjdc4mnzu/login
Password: the lights
please feel free to click the edit page botton and edit/change/remove/add text to your liking!
we want to experiment with colaborative thought design over digital interfaces.. any edit you make will creat a new version.. and ppl can compare easily between versions and vote on the ones they like!!
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Dear participants, please follow the link posted by Gab to see our fits fairytale, a draft version of it, but with a great potential and really great positive energy….
Gab, Thanks for putting this together for all of us :)))
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
We can discuss this topic endlessly … but if we want to do something with the great content we builder here, it’s time for Fairytales….
I support all other initiations… and Ideas we posted here and will be happy if any of them will get done, but to be realistic I am starting with something small… something I believe will be useful for my son and other kids … now… today…in this reality…
I choose fairytale … we have already contacted number of people from our conversation who agreed to help us with fairytale… and we hope a few great mind changing stories/ fairytale/metaphors will come out of these great space …
Paul van Zoggel
For pragmatic personal change as an adult, bob mentioned meditation, here is a good news item for the ones in doubt/superstition; http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/05/10/trend-doctors-prescribing-yoga-meditation/
For kids, yes, let's go for fairytales, I am in. Anybody else? Bob and Gad already showed interest in putting some time in it also!
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Paul van Zoggel
Kristine Sargsyan 500+
Michael M 30+
Gad Baruch Hinkis
http://worldshift2012.org/
he has some credentials and looks like a good resource..
Paul van Zoggel
Gad Baruch Hinkis
he is exploring it all on his own with his 10 fingers and presenting it to the world... ego.. europe
i have been working with ppl all along, most of the time not playing anything, but just influencing the vibe and conectivity, putting ideas together or pushing in directions... whenever i make some music for my own plesure it comes out meaningless, allways!!! unless i am aiming at someone as comunication it is just nonsence,,
Paul van Zoggel
You need to read War of Art from Stephen Pressfield, you will realize this is not the ego you think it is.
PS watch your words a bit in giving opinions on other people.
PS2 : the role of music is to set thought and collective thought free. It is not for nothing people with Parkinson disease are able to function when they hear (poly) rhythmic music.
Gad Baruch Hinkis
look at punk.. blues..
i would love to sit down with you in a classical symphony and show you how when you listen with your animal instinct, you hear this repeating complexety of pathos and power.. of coars this is not the only thing there, and yes i am uncarfull due to my exited and unstructured nature... that is also why i use generalizations, and take for granted that i am never right... merely pointing in a general diraction of intrest :)
Gad Baruch Hinkis
"people with Parkinson disease are able to function when they hear (poly) rhythmic music."
WHAT WHAT WHAT???? awesome!!!! will look out for that
Paul van Zoggel