This conversation is closed.

Will the Affordable Care Act,, government controlled healthcare, follow in the foot steps of the debacle of the VA?

As the US Federal Government now controls healthcare in the US can we anticipate similar treatment to that received by veterans from the government controlled Veterans Administration healthcare system?

Closing Statement from Charles Hunsinger

Very little was accomplished. Those you see government as an omnipotent benefactor insist that healthcare is simply another benefit supported by taxation and a Right. Those who see government confined by the US Constitution understand that government has no role in healthcare and for government to take such a role is to operate in an unconstitutional manner.
Government is, by its very nature, a bureaucratic functionalism voided of specific objectives that are required to provide the incentive necessary to achieve a desired result. That a union mind set of accepted mediocrity also permeates government run healthcare contributing greatly to the ineffectiveness, lowered operating standards of a government run agency.
Healthcare, education, employment and housing are not Rights contained within the US Constitution. To assert that such things are a Right is to promote a concept of government that would be more inline with Marxist Socialism.

  • Jun 10 2014: Charles, I've enjoyed our conversations.
    Healthcare by Insurance reimbursement is folly. History has shown that it always has been folly.

    Any nation should, as a Taxed-Payer benefit, provide full administration of payments
    for Healthcare Services, as well as any other services for which taxes have been collected.

    That the US Government does not do so, shows Congressional feeble-mindedness and
    Presidential stupidity.

    But, you already know that. Right?

    Enjoy the TED hiatus...
  • Jun 7 2014: Wait til the IRS starts collecting those Penalty Dollars.
    We cannot call them Taxes, the Supreme Court has ruled.

    We had, 30 million uninsured, and most haven't become insured yet.
    The government budget office has revised it's figures to about 15% Penalized.
    "Penal", sounds like prison to me. Regardless of the number, Penalty Hurts.
    Penalty is what Enforcement Agencies use as their Goal Posts. The IRS is an
    Enforcement Agency. The Supreme Court is their rubber stamp.

    30 million Americans, times 15% equals 4.5 Million Americans who get to pay,
    an average Penalty of say $1,000* for each year they remain uninsured.

    4.5 million Americans, times $1,000* equals $4.5 Billion Dollars.

    Of course those uninsured Americans are the ones who yesterday,
    and today have lived a more free life than most of us who dig for the
    Big Bucks with a job and a paycheck, and an eye on the future.

    But, what happens when you lose your job?
    Or you lose your job and your home, or get sick, or have a mental illness,
    or have to bail from your marriage, or all of the above, and a heck of a lot
    of other things, like child support, probation or parole. Are the other money
    collector's, district attorney's, mafia, etc., going to let you off the hook,
    so you can pay for Obamacare. You can bet your sweet bippy, they aren't...

    Is it our "right" to Penalize? To make those Americans pay because we want
    to use an Insurance Corporation to pay for our Healthcare?

    Why doesn't the government just use our taxes? Think about that. Think !!!

    *Question the Penalty amount if you want. But figure it out. Over the years
    Premiums will increase sky-wards. Unpaid Penalties will have interest
    tacked on, and on, and on.

    The government, federal, state, and city, uses all those unpaid billings to collateralize
    and support their corruption aka: borrowing to pay for their wars and anything else.
    • Jun 8 2014: HI Frank

      This is called socialism. It is further defined as stupid greedy people who think that they can get something for nothing and a government who is eager to profit from that greed and stupidity.

      You may be interested in know, if not already aware, that the federal government will profit at least $130 billion, according to the CBO, in the next ten years from student loans. What this has turned out to be is, essentially, a system of indentured servitude to the government.

      I would not worry to much about funding to many more wars, as the current President, who in my estimation is guilty of treason is de-moralizing, emasculating and basically gutting our military, bankrupting the country and succeeding in turning Americans against Americans. I could be wrong and hopefully I am,but there are people out there who want to destroy this country and we are aiding and abetting their efforts.

      I don't think much else matters here. It is simply how many shovels of dirt one throws on the corpse.
      • Jun 8 2014: Charles, some things you may not be aware of --

        1. Sequestration is done with, and put on hold. Most likely never to be heard
        from again.

        2. The Navy has just let an enormous contract for 25 additional nuke subs to
        their New England ship builder. While in the Media they claimed to be downsizing.
        Smoke and mirrors. They are getting ready for another war soon. Ramping up
        the hardware.

        3. The student thing. Parents and Teachers are equally to blame for encouraging
        their children to go deep into debt to the US government for: "An education lacking
        in any guarantee of quality, and no guarantee of a career or a job".

        Corporate Colleges and Corporate Universities are funded by US government
        student loans, professional solicitations for private endowments, US government
        grants for research and development, including continuing patent incomes, and
        professionally marketed sporting events that pay nothing to participating students,
        except of course, under-the-table.

        4. Think about this --
        Had our education system been better. How could we have lost our way?
        How could Harvard's graduates have become so evil and robbed our Treasury
        from the inside, like they did in 2007-2008-2009-2010-2011-2012-2013-2014, with
        no end in sight. How could our Bank Regulators and SEC and Justice Department
        been so inept to not prosecute nor convict even one individual for the $11 Trillion Dollar
        Bank Robbery that we have all suffered from, coupled with the loss of 10 Million Jobs.

        Each and every Election we hear the excuses. Why do we listen. We know them
        to be lies. 238 years of a Federal government in-place, working hard, with millions of
        federal employees, and the brightest of leaders, should have sorted out the problems
        and solved them long ago.

        Something smells like do do...
        • Jun 10 2014: Frank

          I was aware of the sub contracts, but did not realize it was that big. This however, does not replace the ability to put boots on the ground, which is mandatory in an conflict. We were able to take Iraq with no real problems due to the technology, but it was not sustainable, as we could not, politically or in terms of man power put the troops on the ground to hold it. As a combat vet the last thing I want to see is more war and these young kids being killed or maimed. That said, there must be a recognition that holding hands and singing around the camp fire with love in our hearts does not dissuade those who would destroy this country,
          I, however, believe that the biggest threat to the Constitution and for me that is America, is not from foreign powers, but from our own government. Many of the things that you point to seem to be in contradiction to one another or at least run in different directions. For example to fault the government for being to big and incompetent and then not big enough to care for college athletes, which is not the government business.
          Government is incompetent and essentially corrupt. When that is combined with the greed and quest for power by the federal unions a true monster has been born. Government is a self-serving and grotesque creature with an insatiable appetite for power and money and is populated by the same species of life that runs those vile corporations that you so despise.
          The formula for running this country is simple and it is all written down on one large single sheet of paper.
          I see that I am running out of space and, as I remembered this morning, TED is shutting down today. Hopefully we will be able to continue in the near future. Email is if you wish to continue this conversation. Wish you well.
    • Jun 9 2014: Frank

      You make some good points and I will try to respond or at least give a different perspective.
      Education----Our educational system was rated among the best in the world until the advent of the teachers unions in the early 60's. This was with the merger of the NEA, AFT and the AFL-CIO in conjunction with with the International Teachers Union and with that unions took up a global cause rooted in the UN Charter. In the 70's it was decided both politically and with union blessing that the focus of education should be transferred from a manufacturing perspective to a service oriented system with less emphasis on math, sciences and reading. Standards were reduced to accommodate minorities and lower income children and to promote an atmosphere of inclusiveness and diversity. Perhaps, the most glaring difference between us now and the achieving countries is that in these systems there is an expectation of performance from the student and teachers are held to higher levels of standards and ability and not union protected. CC is just the newest addition in the globalized mindset, as No Child left Behind and Race to the Top are predecessors. We can look back to the early 1900's to a fellow by the name of John Dewey, who is, essentially, the father of our "progressive" education system defined as "social reconstructionist" approaches. Dewey taught that it was not enough to teach a child, but that it was imperative to engineer that a Hegelian (Marxist) standard, which in conjunction now with the unions is in full swing.
      I will try to respond later to the rest.
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    Jun 1 2014: No, the best analogy of the ACA is Medicare/Medicaid....Government controlled health insurance. These insurances apply to less then 20% of the population and the funding was not well thought out as has been described and could be broke in a number of years.... the ACA is more like this then the VA. The VA is government provided medical care.... Hospitals, clinics, medical centers that are to provide treatments and services, not insurance payments.
    In either case.... it is the story of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.... who could not say that Veterans deserve healthcare from battle consequences.... are we to deprive poor old people from restive care as they come to the end of their days.... Where these good intentions fail is that huge federal bureaucracies are created to administer these programs and bureaucracies become cancerous as they grow bigger and soon cut out the life of the programs that they were created to support.
    I give you the Transportation Security Agency... it was to be a few inspectors checking passengers boarding planes helping the airlines do inspections.... It is now over 100,000 strong and we find them checking fans entering sports stadiums....
    I read where there are over 4 million federal employees for the Federal Government, that was a lot but OK, then I learned there are another 4 million contract employees working for the Federal Government. It seems that labor costs are up to 80% of the disposable federal budget.... no wonder there are so many potholes on the interstate highways...
    • Jun 1 2014: Mike
      The intent of the ACA was to establish a foundation for the federalization of Health care in this country. Within a year all employer based health care will disappear. Insurance companies are, now, effectively controlled by the gov. in terms of what is offered, cost of premiums, contracted hospitals and doctors. They will become another arm of gov or fade away leaving the gov. in a single payer position.
      I would doubt that there were any good intentions here, only rhetoric. The intention was and is socialized medicine and that, as is witnessed in its application, is a failure. Make no mistakes in understanding what this government has become. There is no provision in the Constitution for gov. controlled healthcare, for the gov. to do so brings it outside the confines of its responsibility and authority. The same applies in education, housing and some other Secretarial positions.
      So many people blame the Obama Admin when, in fact, we could not be in this position as a country if it were not a bi-partisan coalition to bring us here and the Constitution was intact.
      You are so very right in your observation of the TSA, which like all law enforcement agencies now, to include the arming of the EPA and other bureaucracies, come under the control of Homeland Security.Is this what a police state looks like?
      For our new socialized healthcare system; we will have a three tiered system, one for the masses, one for the wealthy and one for government agencies. For the masses, we will inherit the VA.
      I guess TED Conversations appears to be closing down or at least minimizing this type of dialogue. I have enjoyed our agreements and disagreements. You, as some others, have caused me to think and to take a position on what America stands for--always a good thing.