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why people don't want to be honest?

I just read a news from bbc:Harvard to adopt students honesty pledge.Because I haven't been to abroad.So I don't want myself to judge what is going on with the article I read from internet.

But I do know a lot what is going on in my country:China about cheating.we schools require students to sign"affirmation of integrity" in very important exams.I don't think it is any good idea to keep people with integrity.And more with checking indentity,I don't think it will work any to improve human's integrity.

So I couldn't help asking these questions:where come the cheating?why we want to cheat?is it sth born so? or any we miss for our humanbeing,we do need to pay more attention to?any good idea to keep we humanbeing :when we die,for integrity,we could be as pure as we are born?

Let's come to dig our oringinal integrity out from our deep body?

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    May 14 2014: Hi Edulover:>)
    Perhaps sometimes students in school cheat because there is so much emphasis put on "scores" rather than what is actually learned and assimilated, and I suggest that the "honesty pledge" is to remind students not to cheat?

    I think people are generally honest, and sometimes get caught up in a "scene" where they feel a need to "protect" themselves with dishonestly. I think this happens mostly when folks do not know themselves enough to know for sure what is important to them.

    When we "know" ourselves, the importance of honesty becomes more clear to us as individuals, and lying makes no sense, because there are usually consequences that may not have been carefully thought through. One of the big considerations, may be the consequence to our self. Whether or not anyone knows we lie, we have to live with it our self......wherever we go, there we are with our self.

    In my humble perception, dishonesty would be compromising myself, and that makes no sense to me. We project to the world what we have in our self.....we might as well make it a good "self", and projection of self:>)
    • May 15 2014: Hi Dear Colleen,so glad to have your sharing ideas about the topic here.How can people be aware of dishonesty be compromising myself and projection of self?
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        May 15 2014: Hi again Edulover:>)
        Know thyself.....be mindful....aware of words and actions. I believe dishonesty is a protective mechanism, so one can ask the question.....what am I trying to protect myself from? Why do I want to do that with myself?

        As I wrote in the previous comment...." we project to the world what we have in our self.....".....we have to live with our self, whether or not anyone knows we are dishonest....we know. So we are doing as much damage to our self, as we do to those we are dishonest with. As Carl insightfully reminds us....we are all interconnected. When we are dishonest with others, we are also dishonest with our self.

        I believe we are all connected with energy, we can often intuitively feel when someone is dishonest, so the dishonest behaviors are often empty effort on the part of the person who engages in dishonesty.

        I think/feel that as more people are mindfully aware, there will be less dishonesty, because it serves no useful purpose, other than maybe superficially.
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          May 15 2014: I really like this line of thinking!

          To paraphrase;
          The greater your self-worth, the greater your honesty level will be.
          So to encourage honesty, one most encourage self-worth.

          But! I propose if self-worth becomes arrogance, that you are likely to slip into dishonesty.
          So I have to ponder if in addition to self-worth, if respect for the subject and/or person also plays into how honest you will be. AI: are we more likely to be dishonest with a stranger then a mentor?
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          May 16 2014: "Are we more likely to be dishonest with a stranger than a mentor?"

          This reminds me of a story ...

          There was an aspiring student who went to a certain spiritual master and asked if he could become a pupil. At first the master hesitated to take this person on as a pupil, sensing that he was not yet quite ready. After a short while, the young man again made his request. Finally the master consented. Only then did the pupil admit to the master that he actually had some doubts about himself, saying "I have to tell you, though, that I do not live a good life. I smoke a lot and I often go out and get drunk." "That's okay" said the master. "But it's even worse than that," admitted the pupil, "I also sleep around with many different women, even some who are married." "That's okay" said the master, "just make sure that you do not do any of these things in my presence or with any of my other pupils."

          The pupil thought that should be easy enough, so he agreed to the master's terms. The master gave the pupil a simple practice to begin working with and they parted company.

          A few days later, the pupil returned and the master asked how his practice was going. The pupil reported that he had been doing his practice regularly as he had been instructed. Then he said "And I haven't smoked at all since I became your pupil. The first time I started to, an image of you appeared before me and I couldn't do it. I tried again the next day and again you appeared before me. I threw my cigarettes away. And the same thing happened when I went to the tavern with a friend. I ordered a drink, but when it arrived and I picked it up, once again your image appeared before me and I couldn't take even one sip. And when I looked at the women hanging around the tavern, there was your image again. Now, every time I even think about doing any of these things, there you are before me."

          If one is really a pupil, the presence of the mentor is always felt, even in the presence of strangers.
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Carl,the master isn't too horrible?sounds like a ghost,LoL,just joking.
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        May 15 2014: I agree Don, that honesty and self worth are interconnected......well honestly......I perceive EVERYTHING and EVERYONE as interconnected!

        Definition of arrogance is...
        "a feeling of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims".

        Genuine self worth (knowing oneself and honestly valuing one self) cannot become arrogance.....can it? I suppose it could lead to a manifestation of arrogance, then it would not be genuine self worth? I think/feel it is another opportunity to recognize and practice balance:>)

        Is one likely to be dishonest with a stranger then a mentor?
        It probably depends on the person, the situation, etc.?
  • May 15 2014: Our brain learns things in two ways . One is the intentional learning and other is the Non-Intentional Learning. Whether a person wants to learn something or not but his/her brain is always on the learning mode which is non=intentional learning. And our brain learns easily those things which are being acted upon by the other individuals in the surrounding environment.

    Our brain rejects dry theories.

    When people practicing dishonesty give theoretical lectures on honesty then our brain rejects the theory of honesty.
    • May 15 2014: Hi Dear Sinnest,'When people practice dishonesty give theoretical lectures on honesty then our brain rejects the theory of honest'.It is sort of philosophical thinking about how people perform dishonesty upon honest,y.

      By the way,how people can be aware of when practice dishonesty but give theoretical lectures on honesty?
    • May 16 2014: It's so true !
      • May 16 2014: do you mean they are really aware of dishonesty and honesty clearly?Can I say they are conscious being dishonesty?
  • Jun 6 2014: What I say could be philosophical but true to a high degree in real life. Put in simple terms, when "DESIRE" surpasses what we "DESERVE" then honesty is comprised to attain it. Hence is very critical for any one to understand the level he deserves. To understand this, one must understand his own MIND and INTELLECT to high degree. These 2 are ocean of topic by itself but the answer is when one understand fundamental driver of one's life then "Deservation"is clear, and once this is clear, desire is also limited, and when desire is limited Honesty sets in automatically.
    • Jun 6 2014: Hi Dear M Krisha,good point about:when desire is limited honesty sets in automatically:).But in Chinese Taoist:it doesn't mean limited,but means own all the world when people can really think themselves nothing...it means they got Dao,heart and body could be as free as a wizard.
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      Jun 8 2014: Hello M,

      I really like the nature of your comment. It makes me think. All questions can be refined to what is the Truth about something. The source of why people want or don't what something could most likely be driven by desire or will. Be wary of what you want. My personal journey has been a search for the Truth where it wasn't. The best place to hide the Truth from a human is inside of them, seems to be the last place they look. What would happen should I desire to channel my energy congruent to what is progressively true about me. Will the desire that has not served come to serve? I seemed to be pinned to a willful desire with no way around it other than to understand the nature of my will and surrender to whatever Truth time has given to my current state of Mind. I am not sure that such a powerful thing as will or desire should be limited as much as set free to be unlimited in a way of being useful to the whole and not self serving. What do I deserve, whatever I am willing to give with the understanding whatever I give I am giving to myself. I believe you have nailed the question of why people do or don't do anything. I think Einstein once said "find you're limits and go beyond". I'll follow those words. Regards
      • Jun 8 2014: Hi Larry, Thank you for the comments. Just to add to your thoughts, in my opinion. honesty can also be equated to Ethicality. Because Ethicality is a step ahead of legality, I mean what could be legal can still be un ethical. Then comes the question, how do we know or how to get to know that actions we undertake are ethical ? The obvious answer we have is MPSD method. I call this Mama, Papa, Son, Daughter discussion. If any of the actions we do/undertake can be openly shared or discussed with all these 4 close persons in our life, then the action is ethical. Even if we cannot share with one of them then our action can be termed Un-Ethical. usually unethical actions tend to be dis honest although not always. However all ethical actions will be honest.
  • May 17 2014: The truth is deep down people do want to be honest, the problem is they are surrounded by dishonesty which can be overwhelming at times. When you look in the mirror all that other stuff is gone and you are faced with the only reality that should matter to you, are you honest? Because if you are not true happiness cannot find you. Even if the entire world disagrees with you, if you can look in the mirror and like what you see, you have found true happiness.

    "Nirvana is this moment seen directly. There is no where else than here. The only gate is now. The only doorway is your own body and mind. There’s nowhere to go. There’s nothing else to be. There’s no destination. It’s not something to aim for in the afterlife. It’s simply the quality of this moment."- Buddha

    “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”- Einstein
    He is saying don't judge yourself by what other people do..
    • May 18 2014: Yes,nobody else can judge and see yourself clearier than yourself in this world?But why so many people still not like to do so?
      • May 18 2014: It boils down to exposure and principles. The overwhelming majority of people in the world are exposed to a crowded environment. We know from studies that all mammals become mentally unhealthy when deprived of enough space. This condition has persisted for centuries now as we build bigger cities. Therefore our feedback from others is constantly getting worse and more psychotic. The problem perpetuates it's self. We live in little boxes and sometimes cram several generations into the same little boxes. People used to have acres of land to roam around but now that is only for the rich, the rest of us live in little boxes. It is inevitable that those cramped conditions will turn us into the psychotic and violent creatures our night mares are made of.

        For another thing the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. The human brain loves to exercise, it is capable of doing much more than we give it to do. We only use a very, very small fraction of the brain power we are capable of. However, just in case it is ever called upon to strut it's stuff, it constantly gives it's self exercises to stay in shape. That can be observer when you see someone sort of drift off and seem to be in another world in their mind. They can be standing right in front of you and if no one has their attention their mind sometimes goes on a little field trip. Day dreaming some call it. The point is the mind likes to stay busy doing "something" and if you don't give it something good to do, then it will choose and that's not always good.
  • May 13 2014: In my opinion, Honesty, is a SYMPTOM of a state of awareness. If one is not honest, one exists in a more 'constrained' state of awareness......that is, the one who is 'less honest' exists in a DEEPER SLEEP STATE of delusion. It is possible to wake up.

    The idea that we can 'BE MORE HONEST' points to the prevailing misunderstanding of who we truly are.
    • May 13 2014: Hi Dear Scott,I beg your pardon?'Be more honest not truly who we are?
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        May 14 2014: I suspect that what Scott is trying to say is that we are, in our deepest essence, honest. But we "lose" this honesty when it becomes covered beneath the misunderstanding of who we truly are that comes from the superficial learning we acquire in life. That tends to put us to sleep, in the sense of becoming unaware of our true nature, which includes honesty.

        Therefore, we cannot, in our essential nature, become more honest, instead we can only lose our dishonesty to reveal our natural honesty.
  • May 18 2014: I come to taoism from Neuton's 3rd law of motion. "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Thus all change is composed of the elements of action and the elements of the equal and opposite reaction. Thus all change can be summed to equal nothing. The sum of the universe and myself in it, is nothing. The emptiness of ourselves and all things seems inescapable, yet here we are... Moving from this center of understaning we can view our world with few preconceptions. The acheivement of emptiness is just a good place to start living. The rights I want for myself, I must allow for all others to maintain balance.
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    May 16 2014: Hi Edu

    Precisely, Emptiness is the Tao.
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    R H

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    May 15 2014: They don't want to reveal themselves.
    • May 16 2014: why don't they want to reveal themselves?
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        R H

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        May 16 2014: They don't want others to see they don't 'measure up'. or they don't want to show they don't know. or they dont' want to show they're really not that good. or they don't want to show they don't fit in, or that they don't really believe the BS. they don't want to reveal they're not the best in any particular effort (ie, school, sports, sex, business, politics, technical acumen, etc.) they don't want to reveal that they created a lie - usually their whole lives.
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear R H,For saking of all you mentioned:if people really don't want to show others how weak they are,cheating not the way to deal with,because cheating is always cheating,even others don't know but should ourselves know clearly,right?So if you meant some people do enjoy their cheating life?or they can take cheating as certain to deal with?
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          May 16 2014: Good points R H!

          Do you think the foundation of dishonesty is that one does not want to show "others" their weaknesses? In addition to that idea, perhaps they don't want to recognize perceived weaknesses in themselves?

          I tend to believe that whatever we are projecting into our world, needs to start with a thought, feeling, perception, idea, belief, etc., in our "self". Generally, if a person is honest with "others", that honestly started in him/herself, and when a person is dishonest, s/he is dishonest with him/herself as well. If one is dishonest with others, can s/he honestly be honest with him/herself?

          If one believes that we are all interconnected, as I do, I do not see how we can disconnect by being honest with ourselves and dishonest with others. The practice of dishonestly seems equally dishonest for the person practicing it, as it is for those with whom they are dishonest?
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Colleen,you meant those people who are dishonesty for saking of self,because they aren't aware of we humanbeing is interconnected?
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          May 30 2014: That is kind of the idea Edulover:>)

          I believe honesty begins in our self. So if a person is behaving dishonestly, s/he is dishonest to him/herself. It really has nothing to do with the other person....except....the other person is being deceived as well as the person who is dishonest.....make sense?
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        R H

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        May 16 2014: Dear edulover, I am merely answering your question in general with my opinion as to why people don't want reveal themselves, under the heading of not being honest. I didn't respond to your 'cheating' in school point. I would agree with you that cheating is a form of dishonesty, but I wouldn't say they 'enjoy' cheating any more than they enjoy lying to their parents about their study habits, or to their girlfriends that she's the only one.
        • May 16 2014: Why?why?lying to parents?the dearest people in the world?to their girlfriends?the lover no anymore others love them more?
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        R H

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        May 16 2014: Hi Colleen. I think you would agree that what comes out of us reveals what's inside, but is probably not the whole picture. There may be people that believe the lies they've created and now lie to themselves. There may be others that know who they are and don't, or can't, let it be known - so they lie. There may be others that do not lie as a rule, but perceive themselves in situations where honesty would make it worse - so they lie. Then there are those who lie for their own gain. In these last three examples, the person - in my opinion - is using 'lying' as a tool and know perfectly well who they are. The first example is dishonesty with self. Regarding our 'interconnectedness', many believe that we create our own reality, and 'what goes around comes around'. So in that, we certainly will suffer the consequences of our own deceptions. Always a pleasure to read your responses. Thnx.
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear R H,you said:the person,in your opinion-is using 'lying' as a tool and know perfectly well who they are.Do you meant these people they are totally aware of dishonety,but they have to choose cheating in balance?Are they the same people who are dishonesty but perform in honesty in their mind for being reasonable?
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          May 16 2014: Yes R H, I agree that what we project reveals quite a lot about us inside.

          That is what I was suggesting when I said those who are dishonest with others are probably dishonest with themselves.....they may start believing their own lies, and that provides a reason to continue being dishonest. Thanks to you too R H:>)

          Edulover,
          I think you are saying the same thing (?) with your statement....
          "perform in honesty in their mind for being reasonable"?
          They convince themselves that they are right and reasonable?
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    May 15 2014: This is a debate for philosophers .... I am not one. I can only guess. You mention cheating in education as your main focus. Lets look at that for a second.

    The standard is to grade papers and assign a grade such as A,B,C or maybe a 1,2,3 ... these are added and divided to give a GPA and to assign honors. Everyone wants to be on the far right of the bell curve ... in the top percent ... so cheating occurs ... not by all but certainly by some.

    What if we changed the testing method from selecting answer A, B, C, D .. to a true demostration of the understanding by demostration / performance.

    Change the test from list the ingrediants in a cake ... to collect the items necessary to bake a cake and proceed to baking the cake .. present the completed baked and iced cake to the teacher.

    Given the deminsions show all the steps in finding the area of the sample shown.

    Given a auto complete a tune up explaining to the instructor what you are doing and why.

    You get the idea.

    I like application as a assessment. Lets get rid of multiple guess and stop the opportunity to cheat.

    To do this we should look at the value of a compentant / non-compentant system getting rid of grades.

    Be well. Bob.
    • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Robert,Yes,I am being a teacher,keep thinking how I can do better in my teaching job to guide my students live a happy life.But not,sometimes I found cheating happens around rampant...I observe,and trigger my brain to think why...even for me,in some situation,when I am gonna cheat,i am aware of why...So I wonder how you think of it,I always believe sharing can help me develop fast...

      you hit the point in assessment of schools' exams,why we play A B C D game to select as standard exams?does it really can evaluate students' ability?I doubt...

      I totally agree with you:bake a cake to the teacher example..
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        May 16 2014: Things are changing ... what I would have called a lie, cheating, stealing, etc ... are look upon different by todays kids. We are living in a "you owe me society" ... a "what is in it for me society", a "its all about me society". Big government and lots of freebies for no work.

        What would have gotten politicians run out of town and tared and feathered ... is common practice. A president who took advantage of a young girl and had sex with her in the oval office would have seen him out of office and in jail ... is all okay now. Back then the wife would have divorced him and moved out in shame ... now they stay for political reasons ... not love.

        Cheating is only wrong with this generation if you get caught. Morals and ethics are slipping fast.

        So as a teacher how can you improve and make cheating unnecessary ... Grade them as competent upon completing a task ... use the flipped classroom as much as possible ... assign the work and reading assignments then use the class the next day to discuss the work assignment in groups or whole class ... this gives you time for assessment and if the material was grasped and also to correct any issues that need attention.

        Good luck and hang in there. I wish you well. Bob.
  • May 14 2014: I have known people with an unusual devotion to honesty. They are good people, who pay a price for their honesty, as do the people in their lives. As much as I admire their bravery, I strive to be honest, for my own peace of mind, but often leave my own thoughts unsaid when I see no benefit in expressing them. I see others who are seemingly willing to say almost anything, usually for some benefit to themselves, but often as part of some practiced littany, whose focus and intent has been lost. The mind, I suspect, is less rational than our discussions of it.
    • May 14 2014: Hi Dear Bradley,why some of people when they focus and intent has been lost,but they still can keep integrity ?still can be rational?but why most of people can't be?
      • May 16 2014: From infant to adult, we are learning. When a behavior gives us the desired results, it is reinforced and becomes part of our set of life tools. Thus some adults may still cry to get what they want. This may be dishonest to some extent but we may not be entirely aware that we are using a skill learned so early in life. As teenagers social acceptance becomes critically important, so much so that we hide our opinions until we know the opinion that is socially acceptable. This tendency has evolved because it has survival value. People will commit murder to retain the security of social acceptance, regardless of what they truely believe. When a belief, that is reinforced in our minds, is challenged, the less logical support for it that we have, the more we will resort to anger and denial to defend it. This is not logical but it is rational. It is a failure of integrity, but this is a path through which we often survive. By guarrantying the safety and basic needs of all individuals, they would be freed of most of the fear that binds them. Achieving this level of honesty and freedom is, I believe, the true heart of the "amercian dream". This is, I believe, the essence of our current political struggles.
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Bradley ,I do appreciate you said:we may not be entirely aware that we are using a skill learned so early in life,As teenages social acceptance becames critically important.That's why we should pay much attention to early education.

          By the way:what is 'amercian dream'?
      • May 17 2014: The "Amercian Dream" began with our declaration of independence from Britain, which said. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," The bill of rights includes 10 amendment to our constitution which protect the rights of an individual. With these foundations, America was meant to be a place where, anyone could come, work hard, and build a good life, free from oppression and injustice. Many have succeeded, but for many it remains a dream. The struggle to make this dream real, continues.
        • May 18 2014: Hi Dear Bradley,Thanks for sharing the American Dream here with us,it deserves to spread...

          But I still feel confused:being an individual,we should own those rights:equal,liberty,happiness,justice...It is sort of totally different from China Taoist dream:to get being empty.
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    May 13 2014: "Why people don't want to be honest?"

    For many it is to a degree because they are stuck in a win/lose why of thinking, instead of a win/win mentality. AI: I can only win at school, work, religion and etc. if others lose.

    Personally I always look for the win/win in life, other around me may be cheating, hording information, etc, but that will not change me.
    in fact my win/win style has gotten me a good reputation and people know they can trust me, and hopefully they will/have convert to a win/win style of thinking.

    Also for many cheating and dishonesty is a way around their own limitations;
    It is hard and takes courage to learn how to embrace your limitations and hardships, and many just don’t have that strength.
    • May 13 2014: Hi Dear Don,where come those limitations?how can we avoid them?
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        May 14 2014: * My Spiritual side says Limitations come from an unenlightened perspective, a enlighten perspective would see lessons spiritual growth and/or guidance for your earthly path in life.

        * My Noble side (AKA: my personal values - that closely match the Nine Noble Virtues, even before I heard of them a few years ago. (Courage, Truth, Honour, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Self-Reliance, Industriousness, Perseverance)) says that limitations and hardships are just part of life and should be used to prove/test/use your virtues.

        * My weak side is not worth listening to. ;)
        • May 15 2014: Hi Dear Don,Lol,thank you very much for sharing your noble side of your personal values,I do appreciate them a lot:).

          Here I have a question:how can people be enlightened from unenlightened?Infact there are a lots of ideas in China to guide people to be enlighten,Did you read a very classical Chinese fiction:Pilgrimage to the West?Once I asked my students:why goldmonkey didn't carry Tang monk to the destination?why they had to encounter eighty-one catastrophes to be there?so far I didn't get any answer which can be told:they are enlightened by the book.Even I tried to share my understanding of it with them,but if they can understand,or how much they can understand I really have no idea.So I am confused:what can really guide people to be enlightened?
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        May 15 2014: I have not read the classical Chinese fictions, yet!
        I likely have heard retellings and other versions of the stories.
        I do have to say that you have sparked my interest. :)

        I can not recommend my path to enlightenment, it took me being DX. with MS in 2002, 8+ years of looking inward (helped by a brain-fog that was like horse-blinders for my thoughts), and I believe there was also some major heavenly guidance.
        I have encouraged many to take the path to enlightenment, but!
        Trying to guide people to enlightenment is like trying to herd cats.

        So I would try to help build your student's self-worth and respect for others, and you will give them a strong foundation for finding their path.
        I also found to have a good blend of convergent and divergent thinking to be helpful in my path, plus getting in tune with nature has also helped.
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Don...I am very glad to know I have sparked your interest.LOL..You know it is one of reasons for me to be aware of the job I am doing is very suitable for me.Sometimes some teachers feel strange to ask me:why are you always energetic in your teaching job?for what?you don't want to be a leader,don't have extra money to reward...Infact they don't know I am born to feel happy when I can share sth with others,especially my those young students.So I keep the gratitude to have the job in my life.

          That's amazing:8 years of looking inward,I am intersted in :convergent and divergent thinking,Could recommend some books about it for me?Thank you.
          I think we think alike:getting in tune with nature has also helped.I couldn't help myself giving your five,buddy!
        • May 21 2014: Hi Dear Don,Could you tell me:DX,MS in detail?
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        May 20 2014: I believe the best example of convergent thinking was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s “Sherlock Holmes” books, and recently “Freakonomics”. For me the true strength comes from seeing hidden connections as much as analytical, logical, and deductive thinking.

        As for teaching divergent thinking, I think the first place to start is with this http://wn.com/divergent_thinking video.

        I don’t feel divergent thinking can best be learn though a book, instead I recommend finding and creating some exercises for the students.

        Here is part 1 of 4 video that may provide some inspiration.
        http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=divergent+thinking&FORM=HDRSC3#view=detail&mid=CA7065C5EADA25749F7CCA7065C5EADA25749F7C

        P.S. that was on and off/part-time over years; I still work full time and lived close to a normal life.
        MS limited my experiencing outward life and looking outward, so instead of graving for something out of reach, I view it as being guided to different path. When life gives you lemons, make lemon aid.
        • May 21 2014: Hi Dear Don,Thank you very much for the sharing.I am reading some books about how people learn,about critical thinking...The information you share with me it is what I am looking forward to learning them.Thank you:).

          By the way,Dear Don,what is'MS'?I wish you everything going well.Thank you.
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    May 13 2014: The reason we lie, cheat and steal is that we don't have any real sense that we are all in this together; that we are all intimately and inextricably interconnected and interdependent; that my success depends upon your success, and yours depends upon mine.

    If we were aware of that reality, if we were aware of who we really are, we would want to help each other succeed as much as possible. We would encourage, inspire, assist, guide, support and allow each and every person to become all that they possibly could become in life.

    Without that awareness, we think we are alone in our struggle to survive and get ahead. We think we need to compete with each other. We think we need to try to accumulate as much money and material wealth as possible in order to succeed, lest someone else get it before we do, even if that means beating others down so they cannot succeed because we're afraid that their success means our failure.

    Because we feel inadequate and afraid of each other and of our own failure, we try to do whatever we think we can get away with to make it seem as though we are better than we really are. That means we lie and cheat and steal in order to try to misrepresent who we are. Many people get so accomplished at doing this that they even begin to fool themselves about who they are and how good they are. But there is always a part of them, deep within them, in their hearts, that knows they are not who they are pretending to be. And because we know we are untrustworthy, we don't trust others, either.

    It's all extremely stressful. If we would instead realize who we really are, if we would recognize that we really are all in this together, if we would see that the true success of one ultimately depends upon the success of all, we would behave very differently and life would be much easier and much more joyful for all.

    We all share Life in common. If we would only realize that and share with each other, we could really Live - without lying, cheating and stealing.
    • May 13 2014: Hi Dear Carl,I do appreciate what you sharing with us about your understanding about cheating.Why an't we be aware of sharing we should do?Are we born so?or sharing should be element of abilities we should keep learning for saking of our happy life?
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        May 14 2014: We are born into this world pretty innocent, but our life experiences, especially as influenced by others around us, quickly teaches us that we need to fend for ourselves to survive and to get ahead. And, to some extent, that is somewhat true. We do need to strongly exert our abilities in life, especially when that's what everyone else is doing.

        But we can learn to do things differently if we find some guidance to help us. That is actually the true role of spirituality in our lives, because in spirit we are all in this together. But spirituality tends to get organized into religion with creeds and rituals that bury the essence of the spiritual path towards oneness, and instead create more division and separation, which is unfortunate. A truly humanitarian path in life, even if secular, also helps develop the realization that we are all in this together.

        Striving to be our best and to succeed in competition with others seems to work in the short term, but it ultimately fails. We need to learn that striving to be our best in cooperation with others is the only sustainable approach to life, and the only way to realize true success, not only for one's self but for everyone.

        The challenge is that the whole world we have created for ourselves is currently based mostly on competition. And those with the most power - money - wield the greatest influence over how things are done. The competitive model is very well entrenched.

        There are very few who realize that a cooperative model would be much better for everyone, although it seems that more are coming to realize this. It will take a long time - generations - to begin to significantly change from the competitive model to the cooperative model.

        The competitive model is a fear-based model. The cooperative model is based in Love. It is difficult to convince or entice those who are operating in fear to change because they are afraid they will lose whatever they covet. Fear does not bring happiness, only Love does.
        • May 15 2014: Hi Dear Carl,I do appreciate your ideas here,especially the last paragraph,I couldn't agree with you more.But I have a question:whenever I think of dying,fear comes,just like you said:I am afraid I will lost whatever I covet:love from my family members...
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        May 15 2014: Dear edulover learner, that is quite a switch of topics: from honesty to fear of death. And fear of death is certainly a universally shared fear, although some learn to overcome or let go of this. I don't have any easy answer for you. Well, perhaps it's not so difficult to provide some answers, but it can be extremely difficult to find your own way to become comfortable with the fact that you may die at any moment; that any breath, any heartbeat may be your last. Typically, such considerations are tied in with one's own sense of spirituality and one's own sense of real self. Because I don't know anything about you in this regard, I don't have any personal context to frame a response in.

        All fear, including fear of death, is the result of our attachments. Buddhists, in particular, strive to let go of all attachments, which makes letting go of life relatively easy. Some think of death as part of life - just a really different kind of life. Some traditions view death as the beginning of a new life, or as a shift to a completely different sort of life experience without a body. Others, of course, view death as a complete end to one's life, with absolutely nothing more beyond death.

        It seems, though, that there is a general consensus that one way or another death does bring complete detachment that results in no fear of losing anything, at least for the one who dies. Only those who are left behind, still living in body and still attached to whatever they covet, including the one who has departed - only those loving ones suffer with a deep sense of loss.

        One consideration is that you can only come to feel comfortable with the fact that you may die at any moment, is to realize who you really are and what it means to really live.

        On the other hand, you won't be able to really live as fully and completely as possible until you become comfortable with your death.

        Yes, I realize that does seem to be a conundrum.
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Carl,sometimes I think it hardly able to live fully and completely for our humanbeing,if really there are people can be comfortable with death when they are still alive?
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        May 15 2014: You might find it helpful to view some videos by my friend Bodhi Be who has been working with people regarding life, death and dying. Here is one video:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrJF9gy-r8

        Here is the first of a 5-part series:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-jl5up3xQY
        • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Carl,thank you very much for your kind and warm-hearted sharing.But what a pity,here in China my place,I can't access youtube.com websites.But I still want to thank you for that.
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          May 21 2014: Hello Edulover,

          Since You.tube is not available in your country, I recommend you study the ancient sages of China such as Confucius.

          Chinese philosophers:
          1) Confucius, seen as the Great Master but sometimes ridiculed by Taoists. Mencius, Confucius' follower having idealist inspiration
          2) Xun Zi, another Confucius' follower, closer to realism, teacher of Han Fei and Li Si
          Zhu Xi, founder of Neo-Confucianism
          3) Wang Yangming, most influential proponent of xinxue or "state of mind."
          4) Lao Zi, the chief of Taoist school. Zhuangzi, said to be the author of the Zhuangzi.
          Liezi, said to be the author of the Liezi.
          5) Mozi, the founder of Mohist school.
          6) Shang Yang, Legalist founder and pivotal Qin reformer
          7) Han Fei, one of the most notable theoreticians of Legalism
          8) Li Si, major proponent and practitioner of Legalism
          9) Huineng, The 6th buddhist patriarch of the Chan (Zen) School in China, he established the concept of "no mind".

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_philosophy
  • May 12 2014: I feel your pain. I have actually witnessed stewards of the legal system, jurists held to higher standard of honesty "lie" to judges and make up false statements. This isn't one lawyer. I have witnessed it by multiple lawyers. They believe we can't see what's going on. It's the craziest thing I have ever witnessed. And the judges don't seem to challenge them or find it repulsive. American's give China's government a bad rap for some of their dubious legal processes and we have as much of a corrupt legal system as China proper, probably more so because we have been educated not to lie in court. The higher courts in America are just as rogue. They disregard parliamentary procedure if they want to change the law. It's smoke and mirrors. Always.
    • May 13 2014: Hi Dear Dino,I think it is lucky to experience sth in reality,as long as they exist in this world.I do appreciate what you felt of it to share with us here.

      when we are just kids,we are educated by environments,society around to pursuit sth in our lives?
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    Jun 6 2014: What is become important is the grade and not the importance of learning. I am not really sure if anything will stop cheating. Intergerty is what is important.
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    Jun 5 2014: Overall, I don't think that people want to be dishonest. Rather, I think that people generally prefer to take the path of least resistance or effort. In the case of cheating, there is essentially more to "gain" even at the risk of potentially being caught. Not only that, but there is a "rush" or "thrill" associated with the prospect of potentially being caught.

    Besides these intrinsic factors, there are also numerous extrinsic factors such as time constraints and unrealistic standards/expectations that come into play. This is not to say that we should condone dishonesty, cheating, and other "shortcuts," however, we should start looking at the root causes for why people are making these decisions rather than exclusively placing the blame on them.

    If we want to encourage integrity, then we need to focus on how these extrinsic factors play a role in the decisions that we make. If poor decisions are being made (dishonesty, cheating, etc.), perhaps we can "nudge" people in the right direction by making slight changes to these extrinsic factors. On this topic, Richard Thaler has some great talks on how we can change these extrinsic factors to encourage more positive social behaviors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWUtLSfb9zs
    • Jun 6 2014: Hi Dear Michael...If I cheated others,I think not only how others come to blame me,but also myself,it is really not easy for me to set them free from my mind.I feel it does take a long time for me to come back from cheating.So I feel curious how and what it is...

      And I do know more from lots of friends comments here...
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        Jun 6 2014: From what it sounds like, you are highly empathetic and feel the weight of your choices and actions. Whether your are actively or passively applying it to your life, the ethic of reciprocity or the "golden rule" serves as a great guiding principle. However, you will find out that there are people out there who don't follow such principles. You will also find out that you cannot make everyone happy, as there are people out there who are bitter, cynical, and jaded, and will hold grudges even if you are not the one that wronged them.

        Quite literally, there are individuals who lack the ability to truly empathize and show no remorse for their choices and actions. Certainly they can excel at putting on the act of being empathetic and can play the role when necessary, yet they are putting on such a facade for personal gain and personal gain alone. For these individuals, dishonesty comes natural because there is no consequence other than being caught. Even if they are caught in the act, it doesn't really phase them on an emotional level.

        Surprisingly, one would think that these individuals would be more prevalent in the prison population, but I've found that most of these individuals are found in the management sector. Being from the management sector myself, I've seen this trait exhibited in many of my colleagues. It's not to say that they are "bad" or "evil" insofar as they literally are "hardwired" to think and act this way.
        • Jun 7 2014: Hi Dear Michael,to some extent,you are right:sometimes i really the weight of my choices and actions.For an example:when I was a kid,i was told by my mom:don't get things which you don't work hard to earn them.So if I picked a wallet in the street,if i don't return it to the one who lost it or hand it to policeman,i wouldn't feel happy to own them.But the problem is:sometimes I saw some small money in the street:one yuan or ten yuan,i always feel unease to pick them up:because one idea reminded me:it isn't yours,it doesn't belong to you...but if i was them in the street and ignore them,another words would reminded in my mind:so stupid,seeing money not know to have...whatever it is a bit fighting to deal with ...And I also feel curious about my feeling of that...So I come to ask question why...to keep on knowing myself clearly...
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    Jun 2 2014: You're designed to cheat, whatever system to many of the young is a system that can be if given a chance be circumnavigated. It's not their fault but it's not the majority it's just that certain percentage that draws lines around a time consuming activity to get at the target.
    • Jun 3 2014: Hi Dear Ken..do you mean people are forced to cheat?For what?if you don' t want to,who else can force you to do what you don't like to do?what system?the system wanted us to cheat?
  • Jun 2 2014: Human evolution is only concerned with procreation and survival. Competition is key to both. Wanting nice things is instinctive. Accumulating nice things raises our status. High status individuals are able to attract high status mates. Play is also instinctive. Play gives us a way to compete and raise our status. A U.K. study on the long term effects of having two rabbits in a classroom. Grades improved, attendence improved, and behavioral problems decreased. On the downside, when the animals grew old, got sick, and died, teaching was impossible. Other schools used potted plants and got all the benefits. Why? Because the teachers were using the care of the rabbits and plants as a reward for improved grades, or for improved attitude. The key was to call out the names of those chosen in class. This "social recognition" raised the individuals status. For some people, pledging to an honor code raises their status.
    • Jun 3 2014: Hi dear Doug,what do you mean nice things?don't you think honesty is also very nice thing for us to keep?
      • Jun 10 2014: Hi. Nice things as in material objects. Wanting them is instinctive. Honesty is learned. Kids make a bad choice by lying. The only relationships we value on built on mutual respect and trust. Lies and deception violate both. When you lie you unconsciously stop trusting the person you lied to. Because, if that person discovers the lie, then they are free to lie to you. Explanations won't work with kids whose brains aren't developed enough to feel shame and humilation. Those are the key ingrediants for building a conscience. Kids have poor impusle control. These impulses come from the subconscious (programmed by our genes). Our brain then rewards the behavior with serotonin, such as temper tantrums. Negative reinforcement is then required. They haven't identified the chemical the brain uses for this...
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    May 28 2014: Hi edu,

    If I may try to help, emptiness in nothing. I can't describe it because in doing so assigns something to it. I can tell you where I have searched "in between the thoughts".
    • May 28 2014: Hi Dear larry,I would like to understand emptiness is nothing but something:)
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        May 30 2014: Hi edu,

        "I would like to understand emptiness is nothing but something:"

        Ok but I'll have to change some words, is that alright? Good, thanks! Zero or one, on or off, in or out, honest or dishonest, nothing or something. It seems some things are just one way or the other no buts about it.

        I was dishonest today, not honest but dishonest, not dishonest but honest, just down right dishonest. I told the ninety-ninth programed phone solicitor spewing sales track, that was not looking to sell me something that the me he was looking for would not be back for a couple of weeks. In front of my wife no less and "she asked" why didn't you just tell him your not interested? "I said I did to the other ninety-eight." I'll be more careful next time. Does lying and being dishonest to a recorded robot call count against me?
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    May 26 2014: To beggin with, I would say that your question is very well made ​​( from my point of view) because I also believe that "people do NOT want to be honest" , ie , it is a decision .
    Some years ago, when I was studying abroad , in the USA, I had a friend from Hong Kong that struck me very much the clarity or honesty with which he expressed his ideas. Frankly it felt real, sincere and that was why I liked him.
    But on one occasion , we were a female friend , this friend and I walked into the dinning hall and he dared to tell to our female friend that she should not dinner because compared to how he got 7 months she had gained much weight ...
    Apparently for him was not a big deal to make this assertion , but for her it was a very offensive phrase, she started to cry and ran to her dorm, and for over 5 years they no longer speak . This just because he was honest.
    So now I have another question:
    Is it always good to be honest even if the truth can hurt or offend someone?
    • May 27 2014: Hi Dear Said,For the case you mentioned,If not very good friends,you don't have to be honest in this way.I meant some people are fat,some people are slim,especially for some of girls or little girls,if we are really kind,kind reminding is good but said that directly.To some extent,I took it as not kind,because we are all not perfect,if some people are upset for too much weight,they know clearly,Here,u are telling the truth,but what for?I think it is always valuable for us to reflect ourselves often...Thank you for the sharing of your experience.
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      May 27 2014: Someone I know as a friend and teacher has said "If you tell someone something that is true, but if you do not deliver your message with compassion, it is not Truth." The upper case "T" Truth indicating "highest" truth or "Ultimate Truth."

      The most significant part of the Truth of our presence in this World is that we are all in this together, intimately and inextricably interconnected and interdependent. The most successful and only sustainable way to live is for us to treat each other according to the "Golden Rule" - the Law of Reciprocity: treat others as we wish to be treated.

      Doing that takes not only knowledge and understanding, but also empathy, wisdom and love. Compassion is an expression of love.

      If we "hit" someone with a statement that is true, and we do it with no empathy for their particular situation or for their thoughts and feelings, then our delivery of this bit of truth becomes an attack rather than an offering. If we wisely and compassionately offer someone some insight in a manner that embraces the reality of their situation and condition and is considerate of their thoughts and feelings, such an offering can more easily be accepted and appreciated as a "hug" of loving concern and, as such, is an expression of Truth.
      • May 28 2014: Hi Dear Carl,your understanding of truth...is in high level,I would like to see our education can go in the orientation.
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        Jun 1 2014: Carl,

        Thank you for bringing this front center, I need always be reminded. Reminds me of a quote from Plato 'Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.'

        I am uncertain if Ultimate Truth can ever be obtained by me. It seems to be ascending and going ever higher, all I can do is reach with the understanding there always seems to be more. The good news is, it's something I can have as much of as I want.

        Perhaps the Ultimate Truth is "Life as it Is" leaving in it's wake the question of "What is It." We'll see.

        Best Regards, larry
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      May 28 2014: Is it always good to be honest even if the truth can hurt or offend someone?

      Honesty is like good deeds, you have to be smart about it and keep your goal in mind.
      Your friend lost sight of his likely goal to help her; if he had been smart about it he could have been both honest and helpful.
      You friend need to learn good intention, does not always lead to good results. Being honest with ourselves is often the hardest thing to do.
      I can’t help but think of this TED talk, I feel there is some wisdom in it that would help your friend. http://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen
      To paraphrases: Want to be honest to someone, shut up and listen first. For what you think is the truth, may be based on flawed assumptions.
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        May 28 2014: Thank you Don,
        very helpful advice, the TED tal was very nice.
  • May 25 2014: Plenty of research to show that it is all in the genes..
    • May 25 2014: What?you meant honest genes?Then can we use science technology to change it?
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    May 24 2014: I think dishonesty is a dysfunctional aspiration towards how we would like things to be. It can come about through a powerful personal need to fit in with what is regarded as 'normal' - it could be a peer group, a perceived level of wealth, social norms...

    The need to display wealth, for instance, is incredibly powerful in many people, and it is not uncommon to get into deep, deep debt just to appear as wealthy as the ingrained aspiration dictates. That is dishonesty on so very many levels - and I know that, because I used to do it myself. Living up to it, I can tell you, is a sure-fire recipe for unhappiness.

    My own experience of change came about through a shifting of values. What IS actually of true value to me more than anything else, is an unconditional acceptance of my own identity as an individual, and how much I feel comfortable in my own shoes. (That's sometimes still difficult!) I found that when I was comfortable with myself, there was no longer any need whatsoever to apportion material value to anything other than what I needed for everyday living. Thus, what I attached value to, had moved from the near-impossible to the eminently do-able - from external to internal respectively.

    In other words, if we could achieve a level of acceptance of ourselves with no caveat, there would be no need at all for pretentious displays of material wealth, or the often crippling levels of dishonesty involved in maintaining it.
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    May 23 2014: Sometimes answering a question with a question isn't a satisfying answer, but in this case, it may be. Is it the right question? Why do people not want to be honest? But rather, why do people choose not to be honest. Everyone innately naturally has a desire to be honest but at some point for either their own focus of self preservation of self or ego opt or rather choose not to be. Insecurities and conflicting emotions related to how other perceive them are also a driving factor. A more rather simple escape from the reality is someone claiming that they have lied to protect the one they are lying to. That however changes dramatically with the situation where it occurs. If a child asks how babies are made, it is simple not to tell them the absolute truth of how, so it is protecting their innocence and appropriateness. The table turns when changing the scenario. Remembering that it is always a choice to tell the truth or to lie, but when trying to determine ones intentions, when you think you are being lied to, and try to understand what underlying emotional ego or self preserving reasons they have that might make them chose to lie.
    • May 24 2014: Hi Dear Gabriel,Thank you very much for the sharing.I don't agree with you:if a child asks how babies are made,it is imple not to tell them the absolute truth of how,so it is protecting their innocence and appropriateness.For the Case,I support telling children the truth about it in a way who children can understand but lie or extremely bad to tell ridiculous man-made wrong things about it.If you don't think or you don't have a way to tell Children,choose:umAha...always better than telling wrong things .Honesty is alway the best strategy.
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      May 28 2014: Kids lie long before asking about the birds and bees, when still in diapers kids will make-up stories about who made the mess or ate all the candies.
      Hmms? As talked about before; Kids are genius divergent-thinkers and saying their imaginary friend did it, is just the natural way they think. (So is it a lie, or underdeveloped divergent thinking?)
      How encourage and help develop divergent thinking and discourage lying at the same time, is the million dollar question.
      • May 29 2014: Hi Dear Don,good idea:How encourage and help develop divergent thinking and discourage lying at the same time.
        Oh,Don,I really don't know any about divergent thinking,except the link u sent me,I watched Standford Ecorner course from Tina seelig about'the art of teaching Entrepreneurship and innovation.Thank you again.
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    May 21 2014: Edulover: “Hi Dear Don, Could you tell me:DX,MS in detail?”
    Sorry about that, I normally start off clarifying an acronym when I use them.

    I my case the acronyms are (Dx.) Diagnosed with (MS) “Multiple sclerosis” an autoimmune disease affecting the central nervous system (CNS)—the brain, spinal cord, and optic nerves.
    In short; some of my immune T-cells are attacking my myelin, which is installation the nerves.
    These videos explain it better.
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=multiple+sclerosis&FORM=AWVR#view=detail&mid=2A8AFBBE307E30290B5E2A8AFBBE307E30290B5E
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=multiple+sclerosis&FORM=AWVR#view=detail&mid=361206605784A06D2753361206605784A06D2753
    Personally I have been lucky and blessed with my MS:
    *I was diagnosed in only 12-days, for many it takes years.
    *At my worst I had a drunk walk and was using a cane part-time, and compared to how bad it can get that is nothing to complain about. and that was years ago
    Some symptoms have helped me for example;
    *brain-fog helped me maintain at nearly meditative state of thought.
    *Tingling on the side of my face when I got stressed or angry, was literally like a slap in the face telling me to calm-down and to learn to control my temperament.
    I’m sure some would not believe this; yet I believe my symptoms have been heavenly lessons and embracing them and figuring out what I needed to learn has relieved/hid many of my symptoms.
    I would be lying if I said MS does not affect the quality of my day-to-day life, that just means I need to me more creative in how I live life.

    And I must say thanks again!
    You question lead me to look up “multiple sclerosis in china” and I discovered this page http://www.itmonline.org/arts/msalsmg.htm and at first look; it seems it will be a good and informative read. Life is full of heavenly guidance; we just need to train our thinking to see it.
    You made my day! Thanks!

    So I say to all embrace hardships as Lessons and not punishment or test.
    • May 22 2014: Hi Dear Don,I am very touched by your gut and wisdom to face your disease.I learnt a lot from you.Thank you.I took some time to search Chinese medicine to deal with MS.It seems there are a lot to learn.I always have curiousity to know more about Chinese medicine Herbs.

      You know long time ago,my grandparents generations,when they had disease,just had Chinese medicine Herbs,I can't say it is good or bad.But now because of fast development of medicine,less and less Chinese people hardly know anything about Chinese herbs.My grandparents taught my parents some,but because they are used to seeing doctors,so they hardly remember any they learned before.So even I always have the curiousity to know more about it,But infact nothing I knew about it.

      Thanks for the internet,because of your sharing,I just searched more information about MS in ancient Chinese medicine.Here is one of Chinese medicine I got from internet named:丹溪心法。It is in Chinese.If you need it,just tell me your email,I can send it to you.
      Take care:)
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      May 26 2014: Mr. Don,

      Having read your post I have many questions. We seem to be taught the idea that there are all these dis-eases with no known cures. I must ask is this something Creation gives us or is this of my own making? What you have stated would be the Truth from your current state. Is there is a Higher form of Truth? A dis-ease would be a manifestation of many diverse forms. Is dis-ease an attack of the mind on the body? I think you see the association of anger and stress on the body. As with me I think you see release from those shortcomings as relieving the physical symptoms. Some say it's the genes or inherited but I need to look at my inheritance, not all of it has value. Some of us say it is the internal or the deep down within and I would have to say that has been the path I have found myself. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say other than to cheer you on and consider a dis-ease will only serve to the point where it is no longer needed. I am not suggesting in any way you alter the course of treatment that you're in agreement with. I wish you the best of health, well being and at easeness.

      Regards, larry
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        May 27 2014: There are natural diseases that “currently” have no cures, not as many as in years past. For example chicken pox, diphtheria, and polio are now can be treated or prevented.
        There are some man-made diseases like black-lung from coal-mining, but those are also on the decrease in a lot of the world.

        The spiritual and body are connected, what effects one effect the other.
        If the body has a chemical imbalance in the brain it can cause depression harming your spirit, and stress of the spirit will weaken the immune system and ages the body faster in everyone.
        With MS it is just a lot more instantaneously noticeable, and that helped me learn to control my emotions.
        For me it is my mental strength that helps me fight my disease, along with western treatments, faith, diet, physical activity, and I’m looking into adding eastern treatments.
        Faith, mental strength/shortcomings does not cause or cure such diseases, but they can sure affect you quality of life.

        I have dug deep into my ancestry and DNA and I highly recommend it, for learning about my ancestor has given me insight into myself.
        Plus it is a good mental exercise and has given me some really fascinating stories:
        Personally I have found peasants from Prussia to descendants of royals and Vikings that came to America as early as 1633. And much more!

        You need to have an open and inquisitive mind, for many assumptions are wrong.
        For example with about 500 American/European ancestors many would assume many had to be slave owners, and yet I have found none.
        Many think all Vikings did was pillaged and raided from the long ships, and yet most were farmers, merchants and craftsmen.
        Yes that is right they were great wood workers, who do people think built the thousands of long-ships they used?

        We all have shortcomings and hardships, none of us are from Krypton. We just need take a lesson from Buddha and change our view of the world.
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          Jun 1 2014: Hi Don,

          I hope all is well with you, I come across the quote below as I was in restudy of Plato and thought of our conversation. He was and still is a very bright man.

          "They do certainly give very strange, and newfangled, names to diseases." Plato
          So I guess nothing is new.

          There is a guy named Alan Watts who I study who would seem to be the bridge to the Spiritual East. You may like him, I did. His lectures can be found on the web. Chinese herbal medicine has been around for a longtime, I find the closer I am to what is natural the better off I am. The problem the West has with it is you can't patent nature. I just need to be aware of the snake oil of East and West.

          Regards, larry
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    May 20 2014: According to me - Honest or Dishonest is just a quality , that each human are either grasping form the socity or they will develop by them self when they grow. i can explain it in a easy way , many tribal peoples are still be honest with their tradition and way of living cause they all are habituated in it , but many the business or high class people are breaking the human ethics for their benefits , in that way the society restrict to appreciate the poor people who are honest , and appraising the sophesticated peoples even though they are dishonest.

    formula = dishonest for profit - > ACCEPTABLE.
    honest for ethics -> NOT ACCEPTABLE .

    so honestly i can say that no one can born with this quality if so they are called as GOD .
    • May 20 2014: who is GOD?
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        May 30 2014: We all have goddess in us, but we wantedly restrict to expose ...
        • May 31 2014: Yes,indeed,we all have goddness in us:).It reminded me once I watched a buddha talking about buddhism to people in a hall.an audience asked:How can we learn buddhism in our lives to live a happy life?The buddha smiled and said:That is simple if you can say the sentence to yourself when you meet unbalance in your life:I am just buddhism.could you say it loud and keep it in your heart?Once you do,you surely feel happy whenever.
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        May 31 2014: Impressive edulover, All the religion wanna remind this to their belongings as buddha did, i like to share one more incident , " where in a train travel a man shared a horrible moments which he had, in that he stats that , a boy who heavely injured by road accident was taken to the hospital in his van , and a rare group of his blood needed to aid him. this man aware that one of his friend having that particular blood so immediatly he called and explained about the situation, initially he disagree with that , but aftter saw that boy he gave , all these are happening in that van which is bit away from the hospital. after that the boy's status was slowly came to control , everyone thank the god, that boy came to consious and told his name was patel , suddenly that boy got breathing trouble , peoples got panic except the nurse so the van has been stopped and she tried a lot and restlessly she came out of the van and said the boy died , by hearing this the blood donor cried and he disbelief about god , then the peoples start to convience him , being a sensitive personality he cant control himself, then the nurse told him ' dont get disbelief in god cause i can see goddess in you , by your mercifulness , and feeling the pain of others, all are happening with a reason which we cant see but we can feel when look deep into it. then they reached the hospital where this boy's family is awaiting . they handover the boy and the nurse introduced this blood donor to that family. all the family members thanked him a lot, then this mam felt proud about himself and told to his friend that ' this moments mean a lot to me in his whole life.

        Even though it seems that we are bit out of the topic , but if we deeply look into it , that man dishonest manner has been changed cause of this happening.
        • Jun 1 2014: oh,how vivid the story,thank you very much for the sharing.It reminds me sth more to think about.Here lots of friends offered their own opinions about:why people don't want to be honest'.I am inspired a lot by every comment here.

          So far I am more confident to believe:honesty,integrity...all in our human inner bodies,but just how people be aware of them to exploit them.So keep on learning,the real learning is:to discover the real-self of us.
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        Jun 3 2014: Rightly said Edulover , its about social as well as individual perseptions, which have to get habituted alteast from our generation. moreover , even though we shared many thing in this topic, i just gave my view and a reply. NOT THE ANSWER .i want to follow the morality, and the ethics of life and wanna a be a good example , so that next time instead of sharing an incident i can REALLY ANSWER from myself.
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        Jun 10 2014: "who is GOD? The totality of the Universe less my understanding?
  • May 20 2014: I don't know how much it answers your question about why humans are dishonest, but there are examples of being dishonest in nature. Here one example below.

    "If you believe honesty is the best policy, you would have a hard time convincing the forked-tailed drongo. This tricky African bird is the pathological liar of the animal kingdom."

    http://news.yahoo.com/liar-liar-african-bird-uses-elaborate-ruse-steal-012320898.html
  • May 20 2014:  "If I were to tell you that the next thing I say would be true, but the last thing I said was a lie, would you believe me?
    "The following statement is true: the preceding statement is false!"
     "I always lie"
    This sentence is false.
  • Comment deleted

    • May 20 2014: And are we human born honest or dishonest?
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        May 20 2014: Normally we are trained to be honest during our school days , but when we start to recognise that the society including our blood relations are cheating others of our sake . For example , in some social issues and for health cause we pepole lost out patience and wanna make everything fast and for commom attraction and self appraising aspects we engage ourself to dominate others, this impatience and the head weight for fake image are the reasons to be dishonest
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        May 20 2014: edulover learner

        I like your topic and your question "are we human born honest or dishonest?" I was born neither and both. To be dishonest is half my story and to be honest is the other half. Perhaps now I have the whole story. I have heard say "you can not reach the Truth directly, you must first journey through the false. Perhaps that is how Life gives the means to differentiate and I come to know that my dishonesty is good in the fact that I could not be honest without it. The time will come when I will no longer serve myself, I will become Honest and that's what I will serve.

        Regards, larry.
  • May 18 2014: I agree with Keith most people are and want to be honest. (there are a few people that seem to revel in being dishonest) Those who tend to be honest can be forced to be dishonest by their perception of the situation. The best example I can think of the the 2 day test most Asian students take to see if they will go to college and which college. When I was growing up, some students in Japan every year would commit suicide due to not doing well on the test. Some students say everyone cheats or they feel it is the only way they can get a good grade.
    • May 18 2014: Hi Dear wayne,So for those commit suicide students,I really show my awe-spirite to them
  • May 17 2014: Hi Dear Carl,the master isn't too horrible?sounds like a ghost,LoL,just joking.
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    May 17 2014: It is easy for one to lie and to move on because then what you are doing is allow yourself to slip to a more state where you don't have to take responsibility of doing anything. Its like a cheat code. You can get a free pass and got what you wanted without having the guilt and the ability to take the harder route. Honesty, may not get you out of a particular situation but it does help you learn an important lesson and you can live and know what not to do next time.
    • May 18 2014: Hi Dear Elijah,Why is it easy for one to lie?Is it really easy to move on?Or is it harder to move on?
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        May 18 2014: Edulover It depends on the individual who lied or lies. I think t=it can be both. It can be easy for some to lie because its a natural habit and they don't care about lying. However, some people like me when they lie have to fix it is some shape way or form because people like me get paranoid and it stays and weighs heavily on your mind so we have to stay honest so we don't feel bad later.

        It can be harder for some to move on...I know that it is hard for me to move on when I have moments when I lie. But, what makes me a better person is I come back with the truth and don't lie again. Hopefully this helped clarify!
        • May 19 2014: Thanks for the sharing,Dear Elijah,I don't feel comfortable to lie,I found it takes me so long time to get back from lying,So I like to not lie,even for some white lie,if not necessary,i would like to keep silent.
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    May 16 2014: Why don't people want to be honest... Well I think the best way to respond in this matter would be to tell your own personal reason(s) as of why you wouldn't tell the truth.

    Personally, I believe that we are living in an era in which teens just think that the world is a war zone. Snitches get stitches, is the most #1 reason as of why people don't say anything and defend to protect themselves, others, family, what they worked for, what they're known for etc. Not being honest is easy because its a chicken way out of owning up to your responsibilities. Being honest is hard work and can lead up to several complications in which you just want to find a way out and stay out...even if that means telling a lie.
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    May 16 2014: Johnny Atman says:

    There is Advantage in hiding the truth, advantage due to the Loss or Gain Algorithm.
    When one seeks not an advantage, one has no preference, one is free from the pressure to seek a certain outcome.
    That freedom is the beginning of integrity.
    • May 16 2014: Hi Dear Johnny,There is an awesome idea from Taoist:the destiny of life is being empty.To some extent,does it mean the same:that freedom is the beginning of integrity?
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        May 26 2014: edu,

        What is the emptiness?
        • May 27 2014: Hi Dear larry,I am afraid I can't tell you exactly conception of'the emptiness'Because talking is always easier than doing.And I keep searching what is the emptiness too...So let's just come to discuss,learn from each other... Once we friends talked about it too.Then I asked:if a new born baby means the emptiness?my friend said:yes,relatively,u can say so.But real the emptiness is different from the new born babies' emptiness.Real emptiness means experienced whole life lots of things but still can come back as new as a new born baby...I asked:how?my friend said:I don't know how too...because I am not in the emptiness Now...
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    May 12 2014: maybe people are too oriented towards external signs of success, such as money or prestige, rather than feeling good about themselves inside?
    • May 13 2014: hi dear greg,why do people take money and prestige as signs of success?why are we used to ignoring inside of the world of ours?
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        May 13 2014: well, in most cases money and prestige are rewards for doing good, aren't they, edulover? Most rich people get rich by serving their fellow human beings, would you agree, or people obtain prestige by being of service to their fellow human beings? I really don't know if most are used to ignoring their inner selves. What percentage of kids cheat? I rarely saw it when I was in school. Some might cheat because they come from poor families, they are not used to money and prestige so they want to get it at all costs, even if it means cheating. But some might cheat just because they want to keep up, they don't want to become super-rich or prestigious, they just don't want to fall too far behind.
        • May 14 2014: Hi Dear greg,do you think those poor families kids cheated just because they wanted to be rich or get sth they don't have?but why lots of poor families kids they don't do so?do you think it is from poor family background or sth else?
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        May 14 2014: well, I remember a student who tried to cheat with me. He was my friend in class, but when we took a test he would try to look at my paper and copy my answers. I would cover up my paper. I don't think he was poor or rich, I don't think he was trying to become rich. Maybe he was a bad student, maybe he didn't study enough, but when it came time to take a test he wanted to perform well on the test, maybe he wanted to pass the class so that his parents wouldn't get mad at him, or maybe he wouldn't graduate from high school. But really, edulover, every story is different. Different people have different motives for cheating.
        • May 15 2014: Hi Dear greg,do you think cheating happened on situation but quality of personality?
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        May 15 2014: well, the person who tried to cheat from my test had some nice qualities of personality. But, yes, it is a failure of personality, he knows he shouldn't do it. But it's a little complicated. I heard that American Indians always cheat, they all help each on tests, but they don't consider it cheating because their culture says they should help each other. Well, looking back, maybe I should have talked to that guy, I could have said please don't try to look at my test, maybe we can study together.
        • May 16 2014: Lol,good idea...So it inspiring us:what exams for?to stimulate stduents to learn?or anything else we humanbeing created to block people's learning?
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        May 16 2014: exams are to motivate students to work hard in school so they can have the reward of doing well on the exam? And when you do well on the exam, other rewards come, too, you acquire knowledge and skills that eventually you can turn into money and status?

        I don't understand the last line "or anything else we humanbeing created to block people's learning?" What are you trying to say here?
        • May 17 2014: Hi Dear greg,I meant if sth wrong with our exam,does it really stimulate students to learn more?
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        May 17 2014: I'm sorry, edulover, I don't know what you mean "something wrong with our exam."
        • May 18 2014: Hi Dear greg,I also don't know what is exact wrong with our exams system,I just start to suspect:what is wrong?I will keep on observing:what is wrong...
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        May 19 2014: I don't have any problem with the exam system, edulover. I believe for most students knowing an exam is coming is good motivation to work hard at schoolwork. Why are you having doubts, only because a few people are cheating?

        Possibly you would be interested in Maasai people of Kenya. Maasai people do not have variety of jobs like we have here, only they do one job, they are raising cattle and living from the foods of the cattle. And they have rejected formal education, they do not send their children to school, possibly when all you do is raise cattle and live in simple way you do not need to go to school. It is said that when the Kenyan government tried to make the Masai send their children to school, the Maasai rented children from other tribes and sent them to school disguised as Maasai children.
        • May 20 2014: Hi Dear greg,I do think go to school is just one way of learing only,especially nowaday people can learn from internet anytime anywhere.I would like to see varities of learing access come to our humanbeing,not just focus on going to school.

          That's good to take exam as one way ot motivations to help people learing better.But nowaday in China,exams system is in the urgent way to get reform.Because the exam practice stduents like robot learing machine...

          Yes,that's must be very interenting about Maasai People of Kenya education.Thank you for the sharing.
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        May 20 2014: What exact exams are you talking about, edulover? Is it exams that are only given in one class, in one school, or is it some kind of national exam that is standard across the country?
        • May 21 2014: Yes,I mentioned China national Exam:GaoKao.It is on urgent to get reformed.
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        May 21 2014: where do you get the impression students practice for the exam like robot learning machine? And you don't think this is a good thing, edulover? What do you want them to do differently?
        • May 21 2014: LoL,China,students around me.I would like them to learn in their own way,not just for one exam oreintation.
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        May 22 2014: what would that mean, learn in their own way?

        I wonder how college admissions work? Let us say someone was a very good artist and took a lot of art courses in high school. Perhaps they were not that good at other subjects. If they apply to a university with the intention to study art, and they send the university examples of the excellent art they have done, but they don't do that well on academic tests, would the university admit them? Or maybe if their only major interest is art, they would go to a university of the arts, we have those here in the U.S.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_art_schools. Do you have them as many of them in China, I only see three on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Art_schools_in_China

        But for students in many fields, it might be good to cram in facts? If you're going to study biology, it might be good to learn like a robot and cram in a lot of facts? But are they really learning like a robot, it's true they are cramming in a lot of facts, but maybe they are thinking about the information also as they are cramming it in?
        • May 22 2014: Hi Dear greg,Yes,of course those talents in art who shouldn't need to require them in grades.That's what I meant.Learn in their own way means they need to find their own interests to focus on.

          I don't know cramming in a lot of facts if they think or not,but I do know myself:if I am not interested in what I am learning,no matter how much I memory,how high scores I got from exams,I don't learn any.
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        May 22 2014: well, here in the U.S. we do take a standardized test called the S.A.T., or Scholastic Aptitude Test, that universities use to decide admissions. But I don't have the impression people cram for it, I certainly did not, and I scored extremely high on it, I got 780 out of 800 on math, and 740 out of 800 on English. It's more a measure of how you've worked for 12 years. But you think it's different in China, people cram? I wonder why it would be different in China versus the U.S.?
        • May 23 2014: Hi Dear greg...I am interested in'Scholastic Aptitude'.We mentioned scholastic aptitude too in exams.But it sounds doesn't work for students growing,innovations in China.That's why we are doing very hard education reform in exams.I am sure about exams,there are a lot difference between China and U.S.But I don't know yet exactly what differences are they.
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        May 24 2014: how is education in China organized, here we have grades kindergarten through 12th grade, then on to college. We have primary school, which is kindergarten through sixth grade; middle school, which usually is seventh through ninth grade, or sometimes just seventh and eighth; and high school, which is usually 10th through 12th grade, or occasionally ninth through 12th.
        • May 24 2014: Hi Dear greg,in China we have grades from kindergarten through 15th grade.But kindergarten children from three years to six or seven years old,primary school from six or seven to twelve or thirteen,then go to junior middle school for three years,then high school for three years.Because of fast population in larger and larger,China's Colleges or Universities education resources are limited,So every year entrance colleges or universities exam is the most important exam for Chinese students to get to Universities...it is the most competitive,a few years ago,everyone just got once to take part in the exam,if they failed,no any chance to take the exam anymore...Now China's universities are developing very fast,and the exam is on the way to get reformed to offer everyone chances as many as they want to take part in the exam.So these years,We often have breaking news about some pioneers old people took part in the GaoKao exam,I think it is a very good reform in China education exam...
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        May 24 2014: well then maybe that's why they were cheating in China, because there were a limited number of openings in universities and they wanted to make sure they get in. Now that there are more universities, maybe the cheating will decline?
        • May 25 2014: Hi Dear greg,Yes,Maybe the conflict of competitive situation caused some students cheating in the exams.But I think it isn't the main reason for explain that,it is more than that deeper from background education.

          No,more universities,cheating will not decline if we don't educate kids from kindergardent....and the whole social environment,the oreintation of social value,and personal value of life quality oreinted education...There is a long way to go for China...If Chinese people can keep in honesty in orientation...They will be really awesome...Anyway it is so not easy to correct long history culture to affect people's value...Chinese people is struggling as well as suffering for it Now...
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        May 25 2014: well, when Chinese students cheat on an exam, how exactly do they do it, I mean practically speaking? Do they copy each other's papers during the test? But the teacher can watch and make sure they don't do it, can't she?
        • May 26 2014: Hi,Dear greg,cheating is just cheating,when it happens,it doesn't matter others see it or not,but surely your know clearly.Once I did talk to my students about it:I said if you threw rubbish anywhere,maybe nobody saw you doing that,but that's one who is U do know?my students nodding their heads to agree with me.
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        May 26 2014: well, edulover, you said that by China having enough universities for everybody, it still won't stop cheating. But I'm telling you there is very little cheating here in the U.S. in school. That is partially because we have enough colleges and universities for everybody, don't you think? So if China builds enough colleges and universities, shouldn't it help with the cheating problem?

        Yes, the best case is that people don't cheat because they know it's wrong. But I'm still curious how people cheat, because if you see how they cheat, it might give you some clue as to their motivation, and how you could get them to stop, stop both on a practical level, and also become more honest.
        • May 27 2014: not really,the problem is:people do know what should we do,but we just don't want to do so...It is a bit complicate in China,That's why I said we are suffered a lot by it
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        May 27 2014: well, we have very little school cheating in America. We definitely have crime here. Would you think maybe some of the things that motivate crime would also motivate academic cheating? One thing I have read about criminals is they enjoy the excitement, or risk, or increased adrenaline production, of committing a crime.
        • May 28 2014: Yes,to some extent,they are the same.maybe they do that for different goals.But why they do that?Because they aren't aware of how important to be honest .
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        May 28 2014: I think most criminals and cheaters know how important it is to be honest. And I think they know they will eventually get caught. Maybe they just enjoy being destructive, they have a lot of anger?
        • May 29 2014: Hi,dear greg,I have to say:they learned how important it is,but still i don't think they really know,if people don't connect what they learned to their lives,it doesn't mean they really know what they learnt.
          For an example:there is very good idea from Confucius:practice what we learn in our real lives,isn't it a pleasant thing?In Chinese is(学而时习之,不亦说乎)?But recently I have kept thinking of the words from Confucius,I found our education in China is away far from it .Maybe it is one of reasons to caused people don't want to be honest more.
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        May 29 2014: what do you mean, your education in China is far away from real life?

        Why do you think people shouldn't cheat? I could think that if you cheat to get into a university, you may find that you cannot do the work once you get there. So it will be bad for you, and bad for the university.
        • May 30 2014: Hi Dear greg,I meant education in China is far away from Confucius' idea:they learnt but don't practice,they say these but do that...but not all of them,i think some of people are conscious,they are doing very well in China.
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        May 31 2014: hi, edulover. Well, is it a case where you believe in the Confucian ideals, some of them or all of them? Which ones do you believe in, and why?
        • Jun 1 2014: hi,Dear greg,I must tell you:I start to learn Confucian ideals book:LunYu again.This time I try to learn it myself understanding of it .I have to tell you:not all of Confucian ideals acceptable nowaday in our lives.But most of them are really amazing advance.

          Which ones do you believe in?and why?for the quesition,I think I can't tell in detail here.one reason:now when I read confucian books again,lots of ideas are so amazing,so they need me to keep thinking and learning to understand what really they meant;two,i am afraid it is too much to mention one by one.For an example:Once I offered a topic:how to guide teenagers to make friends?Because I got a plan to teach my students about the topic.I got lots of good ideas from TED friends.they do help me to be ready the topic for my students.But you know I also found a lot good ideas from Confucius about how to make friends.Here some of them in Chinese:
          子曰:有朋自远方来,不亦乐乎。
          曾子曰:吾日三省吾身:为人谋而不忠乎?与朋友交而不信乎?传不习乎?
          子夏曰:与朋友交,言而有信。
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        Jun 2 2014: Well, I'm afraid I don't understand his statements, edulover. Here is how it translates, but can you explain the statements to me?
        Zǐ yuē: Yǒupéng zì yuǎnfāng lái, bù yì lè hū.
        Céng zǐ yuē: Wú rì sān xǐngwú shēn: Wéirén móu ér bù zhōng hū? Yǔ péngyǒu jiāo ér bùxìn hū? Chuán bù xí hū?
        Zi xià yuē: Yǔ péngyǒu jiāo, yán ér yǒu xìn.
        Confucius said: There are friends from afar.
        Confucius once: I three times daily: people seeking peace and infidelity? Almost without pay letter with a friend? Chuan was not a peace?
        Zi Xia said: pay with friends, true to its word.

        Maybe you do need more ethics classes. I just went to an event related to Stanford University, where I graduated, and I learned that beginning this year, Stanford will require every student to take at least one class in ethics.
        • Jun 2 2014: Hi Dear greg,I don't think it is sth to take ethics classes issue.More than that I do think it is family education and as well as the whole social environment,history culture education...

          I just wrote a few sentences which are about friendship from Confucius.Here I try my best to translate them into English one by one:
          子曰:有朋自远方来,不亦乐乎。(Confucius said:A bosom friend from afar to visite me,isn't it the most happy thing ?
          曾子曰:吾日三省吾身:为人谋而不忠乎?与朋友交而不信乎?传不习乎?(Zengzi said:I reflect myself many times a day with these things:if i am loyally working for my boss?be honest to my friends? have I reviewed what teacher taught me?
          子夏曰:与朋友交,言而有信。 (Zixia said:for friends,we should do as what we said)
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        Jun 2 2014: do you have any ideas about how to change the environment within many families? Possibly you could broadcast programs on television about ethics? Or radio. Or you, edulover, could start to talk to your family, your extended family, and friends and neighbors about the topic. Or you could write a book about ethics and promote and publicize it. Or you could write letters to your newspaper. Or make videos and put them on the chinese version of youtube, what is it, youku?

        As it is now, many people have to commit an offense to learn to do better. In the U.S., we have about three million people in jail or prison now, about 1% of our population. We have a 70% recidivism rate, in other words, 70% of the people who go to jail or prison, when they get out, they commit another crime and return to prison. What percent of your population is in jail or prison? What percent re-offend?
        • Jun 3 2014: Hi Dear greg,That's really a good idea for all ways you mentioned to change the environment.But for me,the most practical thing I can do is from the teaching job I am doing:I do pay so much attention to support children growing in healthy:i manage my computer design work on Mom's love,healthy relationship ect theme to guide my students to be aware of the most precious love around us,and the most important relationship for friends...I am trying and doing...that's what I can do..

          Sorry,I don't know exactly crime percentage in China...but the environment around me:crime rate is getting down since people's living condition has been improved nowaday..Ten years ago:we often saw thieves on bus,in the street...But now it hardly happened...Because of one child policy,it is totally be ashamed of having a child to be commited.So I think it is benefited from Chinese traditional family education.
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        Jun 4 2014: well, those are all good things you are doing, edulover. You can also use the ideas I said, use one of them, none of them, all of them. One thing that a person can do is to talk to people when one is waiting for something. For example, if you go shopping and you get tired and you are sitting on a bench resting and someone is sitting next to you, you can start a conversation about these matters if you want, there is no harm in asking a stranger what they think about cheating in China, do you agree?
        • Jun 4 2014: Hi Dear greg,yes,it is good to talk about it ,if convenient it is good to discuss about cheating with a stranger who really likes to talk to u about it.But about cheating,I think sometimes it is really a good thing for us to be aware of myself.It reminds me to reflect myself to ask myself why...
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        Jun 4 2014: why exactly are you so concerned about it, edulover? Do you think it is harmful? What do you think is the harm?
        • Jun 4 2014: Hi Dear greg,it isn't harmful to talk about cheatting with a stranger.But if the stranger doesn't want to talk about it,I think it does harmful.Just like Colleen said:cheating is totally own issue...I totally agree with her.So if others do cheat or not,little I can do.Of course I think it is for adults.But for young people,espeically kids...it is good to talk about honesty to them.it does work,that's why I enjoy my teaching job in middle school.

          Dear greg,are you available to come to the room to talk about it in voice?just login the website:
          http://67.87.139.174:82/index_chat.asp
          input a free nickname,choose'OE FAMILY'
        • Jun 4 2014: no,it isn't harmful,but I think it should depend on what others like to talk about or not.

          oh,i just copy an english chatroom webiste here,but it isn't allowed to upload here.Because I think it is more convenient to talk in voice instead of typing.So sorry for that.
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        Jun 4 2014: no, I meant why are you so concerned about cheating, edulover? Do you think it is harmful? What do you think is the harm?
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        Jun 4 2014: well, i put the plug-in for the chat room and then entered the room, but nothing is happening. I think I have to register?
        • Jun 4 2014: no,you don't have to register,oh,sorry,you need to 'chat room plug-in download' the voice software ,then install it ,relogin again:a free nickname,if you live not China,just choose'oversea'
          Then Click'OE FAMILY' then wait to see...good luck.
        • Jun 4 2014: Hi Dear greg,please have a try,i think it is a piece of case for you.Once I ask Colleen to login the room.She said she didn't know how to operate that.Since I do learn a lot from TED here in Conversations.I often think it is more convenient for us to communicate to each other in Voice.So the room is convenient for us.more discussing more learning.
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        Jun 4 2014: yes, it took me a while, edulover, I was able to get a screen where perhaps I can start chatting, but then it wasn't clear how to actually chat, I could see that there were two users online, I could see what time it is in china, maybe 15 hours ahead. I am sorry, now I need to go to catch my ride. Here is the screen but I don't know if you will be able to see it as it is under my user name: http://67.87.139.174:1111/ No, that will only take someone to the signin screen. But I still wonder what you think is wrong about cheating?
        • Jun 5 2014: good job:).And welcome all friends here to login the room to communicate to each other in voice.Most of visitors there are Chinese,but their english is really good.If you want to know more about China,go to chat with them there in voice and typing either..

          I am free only from 8pm to 10pm(China time) to login the room.my registered nickname there is:Friend.send messages to me when you are there seeing the nickname.if I didn't respose,it means I am away from pc...you also can ask anyone there to tell you how to talk in voice there...Let's learn more from each other.
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        Jun 5 2014: thank you, edulover. Yes, I got to the screen where I have many choices at the bottom, many buttons, but I did not know what button to push where I can type in text, or speak in voice. And I am not on that screen now, I am using a computer at a public library, and I have a limited number of hours here which I must use for some other things. It is possible I will not be able to work on this before the hiatus of TED conversations begins, you do know that starting June 10, TED conversations will cease for a while while they upgrade this part of ted.com. If you like, give me your direct email address here, and the next time I try if I have problems I will email you? My direct email address is milkcowsmasai@yahoo.com.
        • Jun 6 2014: Hi Dear Greg,Yes I notice it.So I hope we so many professional and thoughtful friends here,can login the chatroom to keep on communicate to each other in the room.If you have any problem to access the room or operate typing,speaking there,please email me:joyslove@163.com.It is my pleasure to do any for you there.But my free time is:8pm to 10 pm(China time).Thank you.