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Did physics create the universe?

I assume that non-creationists would say that physics created the universe. But laws of physics can only manifest themselves in the presence of matter, correct? If the universe is not eternal, then how could the laws of physics manifest themselves in the presence of nothing?

  • May 10 2014: Thanks Mike,

    I think that obviously when we're talking about how the universe began, there is an element of faith that is present. Whether we believe in God, or no God, faith is present. If i look walk with an atheist on a beach, and we come across what looks like an "L" drawn in the sand, we all might say "probably just the wind". But if we're on the beach and we one one Shakespeare's poems written out, no one would say "oh it's just the wind". We don't do that with a simple example such as this, yet millions of people do this exact thing when it comes to the Human body, or DNA, or nature. So the question becomes, why do people treat these situations differently? Could the Bible tell us why? Yes, it does.

    The scripture also tells us things about science that we later finally realized. But, again, people look away from that, and the scripture tells us why.
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    May 9 2014: Hi Mike,
    The laws of physics were created along with everything else; from nothing.
    Big Bang is speculation, hypothesis at best. Science is given a bad name by those who claim it as fact. There is no possible way for it to be verified. However, if you dare to point this out, you will be called anti-science, & told to stop using your electric toothbrush. It must be embarrassing for the scientists & engineers who come up with the real scientific advances. Not to mention the fame these people achieve with their ideas. Some of the ideas may have merit, so keep the research going. However, to announce things as fact & vilify folks for not swallowing the tale smacks more of the inquisition than sincere science.

    :-)
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    May 8 2014: Physics has become so confused and confusing...
    Big Bang Theory?.. What banged?
    Virtual Particles? .. where did they come from?
    Quantum bla bla? Would you just tell me you don't know? =D

    There are many views to this, but no one has succeeded in fully explaining the topic.
    Come to think of it.. we have not understood even the millionth of our tiny planet, but we are so interested in more complicated stuff...
    Why? THAT IS HOW WE WERE CREATED.
    Why not STUDY the oldest account of creation? YES STUDY-not read.
    That of and from the Creator, GOD =D
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      May 10 2014: Well, and where did your God come from? You see, this argument goes both ways ... ;o)
  • May 14 2014: I would suggest that physics and matter grow together, it's concrescence.
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    May 10 2014: Is Physics capable of creating?

    "The dictionary definition of physics is “the study of matter, energy, and the interaction between them”, but what that really means is that physics is about asking fundamental questions and trying to answer them by observing and experimenting.

    Physicists ask really big questions like:
    •How did the universe begin?
    •How will the universe change in the future?
    •How does the Sun keep on shining?
    •What are the basic building blocks of matter?

    If you think these questions are fascinating, then you’ll like physics."

    http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=18
  • May 10 2014: Amen!
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    May 10 2014: Mike,
    Good name.
    A newspaper editor paraphrased Sam Clemmons and said there are three kinds of liars: liars, damn liars and scientists. Now, I don't think that all scientists are liars, but some maybe full of themselves.
    Now, most of what I have read deems the universe to be eternal. People speak of the known universe as 14B years old and some number with a lot of zeros across in distance, because that's about all we can see or think we see.
    Now I believe, like some, that there is more space out there then what we know about. Some have postulated that there may be universes in universes.... like peels in an onion? Another thought that there was an earlier universe that collapsed and then exploded into this one. The big bang? My favorite is a bunch of universes all connected together like a lot of little bubbles make one big bubble. Not to be out done.... I say the universe goes on forever and what ever happened 14B years ago that came to be us... is our little corner. And somewhere else is another cluster of galaxies like our known universes and people there are exploring their known universe. There could be a number of locally known universes as there are stars in our known universe.
    However, you believe that all this was created by a Supreme Being... God. Others say that there is no God. I am a coward. I sit on a fence. If all was created by God, it explains much and makes understanding easy. If there is no God, then the explanation becomes difficult mathematical proofs. I take a different approach. I say that at this time it makes no difference. We have no definitive understanding on how our "universe" came to be, we have found that all we thought we knew about stuff gets flushed at the sub atomic level. We still haven't figured how a couple of carbon based molecules came together to reproduce themselves into giant redwoods or beautiful women. We got a long way to go before we deal with who or what began it.
    Just saying.
  • May 10 2014: HI Carlos,

    My question was was directed at those who believe that the universe is not eternal, therefore, that necessarily means that those people believe at one point, there was "nothing". My question then arose from that thought. If the universe is not eternal, and God didn't create it, then did physics? I believe God did create it.
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      May 11 2014: Mike,
      Existence is all there is, no one has a pound of "nothing" to study it. I mean we must agree ( I'd hope) that things do exist, what you are saying is(you say some people believe) that one point there was a state of non-existence that existed??? ( figure that one out) so I suggest that existence is a necessary state and thus it doesn't need a creator or a "consciousness " or a "beginning" et al. If we can not have a state of non-existence and existence is a necessary state then what is the use of a creator be it "Physics" or God(s)???

      The other "thing" is falling in the literary device of Personification (likeTime and tide "waits" for none.), in which you give "Physics" human attributes (the capability to create as an entity of its own volition like God(s)).

      I do respect the choice that you and many of our friends have made to have faith in God in whichever way you conceive that experience to be. Just know that at least in the case of Christianity there are over 30,000 variants and all claim to be undisputed "true" path, not to mention our muslim, hindu and Buddhist friends just to name some world religions that will disagree not only with your interpretation but within themselves. Either they are all wrong or at least one is right, and if so how does anyone determines that?

      So does Science "knows absolutely" how all came to be??? -No. What Science does has is a bunch of black crows that will disappear as soon as we spot a white one, but the black ones are working-so far- Not knowing is OK- is part of the "mystery" of being alive and we traverse time we will find more answers and then more questions, The "mystery" will not stop even if we had the theory of "everything" first thing in the morning with coffee and croissants. There will always be room for another nagging question, and mankind will take it on again and again...
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    May 10 2014: Mike,
    You have a lot of loaded concepts, First Physics did not "created" the universe. Our understanding just points to the best reasonable models based in our current capabilities. Also you assume that a philosophical "nothingness" exist or existed and that is a dead end.
    So in short -No.
  • May 9 2014: I thought the theory is there cannot every be nothing. That is the theory of Higgs boson. I thought that this had proved that there is always at least one thing, and never as the constant "nothing." I also don't think we are capable of understanding nothing because there has to be a relationship constant between what was in existence and what evolves into non existence. So we are reticent of our past although it doesn't exist. We understand a future although it doesn't exist. We live in the present and it exists only as we recognize that it is present. The laws of physics manifest themselves in the presence of the now not the presence of nothing.
  • May 9 2014: HI Peter,

    Thanks. So in your opinion, what would you say caused everything to come into being?
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      May 10 2014: Hi Mike.
      Hebrews 1:1-2 NIV
      [1] In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, [2] but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
      Jesus Christ made the universe, according to the bible. The more I study these 66 books, the more I believe them to be of supernatural origin, God if you like.

      :-)
  • May 8 2014: It seems that the current laws of Physics did NOT exist at the time of the Big Bang. For example, the current theory states that a period of hyperinflation occurred where the universe grew faster than the speed of light. The 'constants' we see now did not appear until a bit of time has passed as well. It appears that these constants could have been different, but that if they were then Life could not have arisen (that is, Life As We Know It anyway.) Its actually a decent argument for God, as the Universe seems to have exactly the right rules for Life to exist. Let's leave that for another discussion.

    There are still many mysteries about 'how' the Universe came to be. So far we have noticed consistencies which we have labeled 'the Laws of Physics.' They tend to work very well under normal conditions, but the Big Bang was decidely not-normal. What came before, if anything, is not talked about because we don't have the ability to observe pre-time events. Perhaps someday we will, at which point the data can be discussed.

    Just because we don't fully understand the 'Truth' of the physical world does not mean that there isn't one. So from that perspective, one could argue that the Laws of Physics created our world. Then you encounter odd phenonema such as Virtual Particles, Quantum Entanglement and Dark Energy which SEEM to break those laws. The challenge is to either explain their odd behaviour using current theories or to create entirely new theories which explain them. That's where we are now.
  • May 8 2014: Mike

    Why did there have to be 'nothing' and is there any evidence to support the claim of 'nothing'? I would venture to say that physics did not create the universe or existence (that which may have been before or which may come after our universe).
    Physics is a Man invented word and a Man reasoned mathematical process by which we can understand our perception of the universe. All things are by our definition, by our capacity to reason and all things change all the time. There are no constants. This would include the universe and any ideal of theistic belief. I.would also think that the universe is not eternal or infinite. There is no reasonable cause or evidence to believe that anything is infinite.
    Reasonable evidence indicates that the Big bang happened. That we are born, live and will die on an infinitesimally small speck of rock hurtling through space at over 2 million miles per hour coming from nowhere and going to nowhere and all that is perceived by us is defined by us. Life does not come with an operating manual. We make it up as we go.
    As we continue to live and evolve our knowledge base grows, as once we knew, as a truth, the earth was the center of the universe, we now know, as a truth, it is not.
    The answers to the universe, to existence reside in our capacity to accumulate knowledge and to ask the question, what does that mean? It is a process of reason. Answers will never be found in a denial of our capacity to reason, only ignorance and all that it brings.,
    • May 8 2014: HI Charles,

      I appreciate your response...but didn't you just claim the knowledge you say doesn't exist? If there are no constants, including truth, then you'll have to respond to me tomorrow as well, because what you believe to be true in your response to me today, will become irrelevant tomorrow. How can our knowledge base grow if there are no constants, including knowledge?
      • May 8 2014: Mike

        I don't believe I said, knowledge does not exist. Knowledge. like all things, is an evolving process, which is why you go to school. You can not learn everything in one day or in one life time or many life times.
        What I believe to be true today may not be necessarily false tomorrow, but it may be. I must insist on an open mind if I am to grow intellectually, if Man is to grow.
        If there was a constant, lets say a god, once you 'know' this as a truth, as you may claim, then any further study or understanding becomes irrelevant or as most theists claim blasphemy. If this happens, as is documented in the history of theistic belief, humanity stagnates. For Christianity it was called The Dark Ages.
        If you like I can respond tomorrow to give you an update on my evolution. It is interesting that my knowledge has evolved since I first wrote this morning. It would seem that we, Man, are now able to rewrite DNA, essentially redefining life. http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/scientists-rewrite-code-of-life-with-alien-dna-114050800874_1.html
        If and when our knowledge base stops growing, we will either not exist or we will be god.
    • May 8 2014: Charles,

      Also, if there was always "something" in the universe, then that would mean it was eternal. But since you believe it isn't eternal, then necessarily, at one point there was "nothing". With that being said, what caused the big bang, which you believe, reasonably happened. What was the trigger, if there was "nothing" prior to it?
      • May 8 2014: Mike
        I don't know what caused the Bang Bang, nor does Hawking, but if we keep asking the questions we will know, until the next question. A quandary, yes?
  • May 7 2014: Hello Bryan - thanks. I don't believe the universe is eternal either, but it doesn't seem that virtual particles resolves the issue - virtual particles exist only temporarily as they are exchanged between ordinary particles, and all particles have a finite lifetime, as they are created and eventually destroyed by some processes.

    So did physics create the process that created the virtual particles? The question still remains.
  • May 7 2014: 1: The universe is not eternal, according to current physical models.
    2: Look up "virtual particle".