Ted Barnes

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Obama's birth certificate

Personally I think this whole topic is absolutely ridiculous, but recent polls have shown 1 in 4 Americans doubt the President's origins of birth.

3 questions to guide this topic

1 - Why is it important that the American president be born in America?

2 - Today, the president released his official birth certificate to the public. Why do you think Donald Trump, the Tea Party, and others doubted his place of birth to begin with?

3 - Does racism factor into this attack on the president?

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    Apr 28 2011: This whole discourse is simply the most recent manifestation of the most frustrating sort of "identity" politics. Voters should judge Politicians by nothing but the decisions they make. Sadly we are far, far away from this being a reality.
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      Apr 28 2011: This whole discussion IMO is silly and at first it was hard for me to accept this is the issue on the forefront of people's minds right now. The whole world is sliding off the edge of the cliff and this is what we are caring about?!?! But then I remembered President Clinton's last couple years in office and then it was like ooooh yeah Americans ARE that shallow.
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        Apr 28 2011: Americans watch too much television (4 hours per day, on average). They could be spending these 4 hours per day thinking about what THEY can do to solve real problems in their country. Instead, they sit on their duffs in front of the idiot box and shrink their world to the size of a pea.
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          Apr 28 2011: I agree with that but I have to say when I voted for Obama I truly expected him to be the president that would interrupt these lazy asses while they were watching their Dancing With the Stars to bring them important updates and keep them informed but the only time I have seen him really do that is to present his birth certificate!
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          Apr 28 2011: As a citizen of Florida I would think it is more complex to than that. Considering Florida is one of the poorest states in test and I.Q. I would assume education would create more thinking opportunities

          Consider politicians are now attacking education as a whole. Wisconsin is prime example, it is now to the point where unions are battling a corporation directly. We need these kids better suited to achieve what our forefathers killed men for, they spilledblood for nothing, the Civil war was a waste of a lesson in history class.

          Now I stated for three sources of knowledge from above. Education is crap, we have readers but no thinkers, a fraction of them are on TED right now. That enjoy in-depth conversations and thinking. TED is that. My generation lacks it because all the entertainment is lacking character, allusions, imagery, and all the other good type of entertainment through art/literature.

          English class is structure, grammar, vocabulary (some what), and literature analysis (the most critical kids are thinking arguably). Where is the creativity? Literature is the language of non-verbal expression. If that is structured academically only. We loose the ability to express thought.

          When never having a crazy thought that wasn't drug induced, T.V is sweet. Which is why so many questions are asked on these conversations in which how to get that step of are created here. People want to think about the good stuff, and it usually pertains to people thinking + getting alone + competing to be the best in the process = a happy life. (This is entirely opinionated)

          Cannot have thinkers if we do not teach thinkers, parents

          Today liberal art colleges are where these young people take the big questions on especially around me. But these kids aren't learning to be economics (rarely), they are not law majors (somewhat), but they art majors. Writers and thinkers. (opinion)

          "We are shallow" is a cop out, blame anyone 30 +, they made major decisions, not kids
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          Apr 28 2011: I'm attempting to not shift or place blame on anybody though. The reality is our education system is simply outdated, boring, and above all ineffective. The reason I said Americans are shallow was in the context of what we consider to be priority. I was directly referring to Mister Clinton's sexual misconduct being on the forefront of the American mind for years. This to me is a genuine correlation to Obama's birthplace being on the forefront of the news currently, even though this will pass over much more quickly. It is still the same kind of nonsense the media pushes at us and we just eat it up. Although to be fair, as our occupation in the Middle East trudges on, I think a lot of Americans are gradually waking up to much bigger problems. I think the financial collapse here in America has also opened a lot of eyes to the deep seeded problems that have been building since the Reagan administration. People like Alan Greenspan and these supporters of complete deregulation of financial institutions (including Obama's entire financial staff who's been the same old white, white-haired greedy Wall Street hounds since Reagan) have dismantled America's economy. And that affects the entire world. I think the American media is a corrupt tool of corrupt and greedy corporations and financial institutions. I think it all plays into this system of imperialism and some sort of twisted Orwellian nightmare that we are headed towards, and I think it is up to us to change the direction. That's why you see them trying to lock down the internet because they see a gradual awakening among the citizens and that scares them. So the more they bombard us with useless shit like "Obama may not even be an American according to Trump!", the more they delay the obvious backlash that is surfacing from my generation and coming over the horizon.
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          Apr 28 2011: Ted and TED,

          To be fair to ANYONE in the white house trying to do good on an extreme level. Is in dangerous business, just because you don't hear happy stories of what he is doing does not mean he is doing bad. The news made him a celebrity. "First African American President" his face was around so much for such little things. I recall "fat lip", basketball references multiply times, new dog, daughter/wife this, but never his actual duties, actions, or ideas being publicized. Check into lobbyism to find out why, follow the money.

          A president should be a face with his ideas being dictated publicly as it has been throughout history. Today, not... I challenge anyone to looking up (search engine) Obama term stats and look at the increases, articles, claims, and concerns. A president today is not a law decider, a bill maker, and/or a full decision maker, he is to govern. But a president is not everything in which this government is supposed to be, the people are the ones who are suppose to press the issue, make the issue and see through on the issue. Not fair to judge any president, judge the system, the governs, the laws, the politicians, the lobby(s), the senators, and/or whatever is involved that I am missing.

          JFK r.i.p

          Edited: second message.

          Absolutely.
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          Apr 28 2011: Well I do study the Obama administration's policies and I have to say his campaign of change that I got behind so far has been a lot of rhetoric. I'm not saying he hasn't done some good things, but some key critical things regarding lobbyists, Wall Street control, ObamaSpace, and ObamaCare I think could use some real work. I do agree that it is up to people to press the issues as you put it, but our government run by the major financial institutions and giant corporations have made it very hard for its citizens to even get a fair say in policy anymore. Surely you have to see that. Even when Americans do speak out anymore, they don't get the treatment that they should as American citizens. Take Halliburton and Encana for instance and their natural gas drilling here in the states. They use this evil "fracking" method that pollutes everything it touches and contaminates water in over 15 (Edited from 20 after I doublechecked.) states with almost no safety regulations installed, with large numbers of Americans being injured and killed by it, and trying to get something done about it but can't because of that corporations overwhelming lobbying power in congress. It is getting to a point where even the protest has died or has been rendered pointless. A president nowadays isn't even to govern anymore, he's to read off the card handed to him and follow directions. It may sound cliche, but he's a puppet. The real people we need to be going against are the few elite people that run a shadow government, get behind closed doors, and really shape the policies that are governing the world. If a ventriloquist is on stage making his doll say "your mom is a whore and you're a piece of shit" is your quarrel with the doll or the master?
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          Apr 28 2011: WE NEED TO PRESS THOSE ISSUES stated in Ted's response at the beginning."lobbyists, Wall Street control, ObamaSpace, and ObamaCare "

          Reread "Ted and TED" address.

          JFK got killed a few days after he wanted to change the money. FACT.

          Think that is an accident? I will probably be 'randomly' terminated due to this statement, if its deleted in the future I am not with this planet anymore.

          (I maybe a skeptical, but how much does free speech really get you in the country besides prison and having your name tied to disgusting acts.)

          http://m.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2011/04/wikileaks-the-uses-of-guantanamo.html

          I personally am here fighting for the homeland, earth. But if that means making people aware on the problems on a forum site about the "strongest" Nation in the world, then by God as my witness I will do such justice, even if it is minor.

          It's good to vent Ted.
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          Apr 28 2011: Haha and as you can tell I'm not scared to speak out either, so if you see all the Ted posts disappear from TED you'll know they finally got me! I openly post everywhere I can my dissidence about the corruption we face in America. I research and analyze everything I can and the scary part is the evidence is everywhere right in front of our obese, double cheeseburger McChicken munching zombie faces and the majority of us don't care to educate ourselves. It's more important to surf apps on our IPhones and catch Dancing with the Stars. It's more important to watch cats jumping in the air on YouTube and the latest Lil Wayne videos. It's more important to text meaningless shit to people and Twitter about Twilight. We have become complacent willingly. It is sucking the life out of me trying to reach out to people that simply don't want to listen, don't want to think, and don't want to understand the dire shit that's happening here (present TED company excluded of course!). What the hell does it take to get these idiots motivated to get out and do something? How do we reach out to a society that turns a blind eye to what their own country does around the world? And that is the problem with Obama presenting his birth certificate.

          It IS good to vent Nicholas.
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          Apr 28 2011: Make people in public matters STFU because they know you are absolutely right and can argue very little about it. OR Make complex arguments simple with complex logical value that anyone can understand who isn't a politician....

          In public, internet-public, blog, youtube, website, webpage, social networks (facebook), application on iphone, vlog, protest forums, alternative poetry contest (http://www.beatdom.com), TED event (even if tiny and local college), posting this thread anywhere because can read it with out being a member, short cartoon movies about politics (plenty out there), and/or just asking a professor in an art/English class to allow you make a speech for practice.

          Add to the list, need websites from the list, and/or sources.

          I got them.
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          Apr 28 2011: I was just trying to vent there.
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          Apr 28 2011: Who says I was done venting? lol

          At this moment I am taking some of my own advice please do the same!
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    Apr 28 2011: 1. Because, besides the Constitution, it would be assumed that a nation born baby would grow up conscious of the problems, situations, systems, and people of the nation. Actually one of the best policies in my opinion, makes sense.

    2. The Tea-Baggers are new wave Republican party, of course they are going to try and discredit their opponents that's like a huge part of the campaigns in this country when thinking left or right. They are for corporate America, the following is pure opinion: Obama actually is trying to fight against it, I feel he just doesn't know how or doesn't want to die because of it. Originally it was Republicans creating the rumors of his origin, the Tea-party is no new act, just a new name (which will probably get votes in this nation).

    3. Even if it does it would never be admitted, ever. However is race considered into the voting in America? Yes, but not totally but a huge percentage.

    The fact one in four Americans doubt the Presidents birth. Shows how crappy either A. our education is B. our media C. our entertainment have become for the public. From three of our major sources of information we are not giving proper information (well-rounded, unbiased, and/or from all points of view) about current events. In fact referencing the documentary "This film is not yet rate" about 95 percent of American entertainment is owned by 6 major corporations. (Disney owns about a sixth of our entertainment). Indeed we must rely on our family members/communities in which we place ourselves into or are born into to be where we gain information. However those who are internet-literate and capable of finding less bias information tend to be in small circles (opinion). Seriously comedy central has better news, but it is nothing but pauses for laughs and brief commentary, forcing the viewer to do more research (more opinion).

    Until we have "civil rights" "constitution analysis" and/or "political philosophy" for classes in high schools, we're just asking to keep being a dumb nation. Christianity is over 60 percent, the majority of them vote bible, and bible brought us to war, twice.
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      Apr 28 2011: I can't argue with any of that except for one point....the Christian population is much higher than 60 percent.
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        Apr 28 2011: I under shot it to be nice, and to give Christians a break. What is it?
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      Apr 28 2011: I don't think it is fair to blame a religion for any of America's wars. Which two are you talking about?
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        Apr 28 2011: Iraq, Afghanistan ...

        And yes, I do. In fact a good amount (pretty much all) of those who voted for war after 9/11 were voted in by Bible, mostly Republicans.

        SO you are half right, those who didn't advice our founding fathers warning are to blame, those people usually are Bible people. Thinking God will let them into heaven with a "I'm sorry" and "here's a hundred bill for the church, it's Christmas" If they are playing stupid or really just that fundamentalist is a much better question.
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          Sky F

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          Apr 28 2011: I'd guess it was a confounding variable, and that being Christian and that supporting war both share a common cause.

          I don't think religion causes war.

          I think being susceptible to persuasive people through lack of critical thinking caused both the convincing of war and the belief in religion.

          I believe this because I believe you can be religious and not support war... but it's a lot less probable for you to be Christian, support these wars, and have an autonomous mind.

          Watch out for those hidden variables in causal relationships, they'll get ya.
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          Apr 28 2011: Woah woah, religion has historically caused war so that's overstepping it a little bit. I'm not convinced our wars currently are solely based on religion, I think they are motivated by a lot of different elements with religion only being a fraction of that.
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          Sky F

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          Apr 28 2011: Ted, did you even read what I said? Correlation not causation brodude.
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          Apr 28 2011: I did read what you said. I'm just not buying it.

          "I think being susceptible to persuasive people through lack of critical thinking caused both the convincing of war and the belief in religion." This follow the herd idea is not a new one.

          "I believe this because I believe you can be religious and not support war... but it's a lot less probable for you to be Christian, support these wars, and have an autonomous mind." I think the words being Christian and having an autonomous mind contradict themselves somewhat and definitely a lot less common. Especially if we revert back to your previous statement about people lacking critical thinking being easily persuaded into war and religion almost completely proves that. Christians and other religious people love the comfort of the herd.

          So yes, if you want to nitpick it, then humans are really the ultimate cause of war, but a lot wars have been inspired by religious beliefs and fanaticism. A lot of innocent and not so innocent people have perished because of the ideals of superiority religion has helped instill. So maybe religion didn't directly cause wars, that doesn't mean it wasn't the main reason for engaging in them and that doesn't mean we can let it off the hook.
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          Sky F

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          Apr 29 2011: Yawn. Ya don't get it.

          Religion is an identity to be exploited, hence why it plays a role in gaining support for a war.

          The root of the problem to all of this, the common cause, I'm proposing is lack of critical thinking. That is to say that the relationship between religion and war-support is only seemingly a causal one, but that it is actually more reasonable to believe it is only a correlation relationship.

          I say this because the difference between religious people who support the war and religious people who don't tends to be the ability to think slightly more autonomously. This suggests that it isn't religion that is the cause, but only a correlation.

          I'm not being nitpicky I'm suggesting the root of the problem, because that is where the true solution lies, and as such, the place where focus should be.
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          Apr 29 2011: That makes sense. Religion is the tool to control the masses but not the direct cause of it.
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        Apr 28 2011: No religion didn't directly cause war in America's case, but those who ran and used Bible as the campaign in anyway have a better shot winning than those who do not. So, the overlapping majority who voted yes to Iraq were Republicans and majorly voted in by Bible.

        So, again no religion cannot directly be linked, but... this article may interest you Sky and Ted.

        http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-08/us/atheist.soldier_1_tours-discrimination-bible?_s=PM:US

        War and religion go hand and hand pretty nicely for the U.S military. Which military being 1/4? 1/5? of percent population of our nation. there is really not a lot of critical thinking go around at all in social circles.

        **We need adults in this conversation thought. They are the people who need something to talk about besides weather not just saying that is the case here at TED, but just another generalized speculation of my local state of New Jersey (perhaps there are trends), which is the most densely populate state of a melting pot. Indeed I would hope that I can get a feel for America by being in such a diverse place.
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          Apr 28 2011: Not quite sure what you mean in your last paragraph. I'm an adult and I'm in the debate, and if you mean older adults than me (mid 20s), I'm not so sure we should be wasting our time. ! We need to get my generation and the new generation involved in these discussions so we can shape a better tomorrow.
        • Apr 28 2011: Religion had nothing to do with these wars. Iraq was primarily due to oil, secondarily due to the president feeling he needed to respond to 9/11, and lastly, due to our imperialistic ambitions. Afghanistan was purely to eliminate the imminent terror threat, not because they are Muslim.
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          Apr 28 2011: I'm not sure the president feeling like he needed to respond to 9/11 had much to do with the invasion of Iraq at all. I think like your first point stated, it was mainly for oil and corporate short-term profit. IMO, I think this "imminent terror threat" is a load of bullshit too. The same reasons applied in Afghanistan and the fact that it is a strategic stronghold in the region. I think this terror alert nonsense is just that...nonsense. You can't go to war with an idea...or an ism. Medgar Evars said it best "You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea." Now, you CAN go to war for resources and profit, and that's exactly what we did using terrorism as the fear tool to get us in the door. But honestly guys, if this is where the discussion is heading, I have a new topic up called "The role of America in the Middle East" that might be a more valid forum for it.
        • Apr 28 2011: The main reason Bush invaded Afghanistan was Al Qaeda, though, of course other motives where involved. Sadly, we have long overstayed our welcome there. And I admit "imminent terror threat" was the wrong choice of words. Our troops completed the mission a while ago, yet we are still there because of those ulterior motives you suggested.

          Alright, I'll quit furthering this tangent we got on.
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          Apr 28 2011: I understand it is hard to talk about the president in any form or fashion without thinking about our ongoing occupation in the Middle East. There's a lot of evidence suggesting "Al-Queda" is nothing more originally than a CIA creation that was later adopted by actual groups. You know you see on the news all the time "Al-Queda" did this or that but mainly that has just become a blanket term for terrorists because they had to give a face to the evil. At any rate, I believe even though we made a mistake ever invading the Middle East without further investigation into 9/11, and DEFINITELY made a mistake turning our weapons to Iraq, that doesn't change the fact we are there and we as a nation have to deal with the repercussions of our actions and face up to the reprehensible acts we have committed. I'm no military strategist so I'm not sure what the best course of action is now, but one thing is certain, this occupation of the Middle East and the war and turmoil we have caused has generated a ripple effect throughout that entire region and is going to get worse before it gets better.
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        Apr 28 2011: Absolutely, but older generations got to fix their "lack of carrying" 70's and 80's up a bit in my opinion.

        Staring at T.V's and reading newspapers saying/thinking/creating thoughts of "I hope this turns out alright" "God bless our Troops" "America is still the greatest nation" "Trickle down economics"

        It wasn't fair because they did not have internet/technology like we do now. But now they do, take a 20 minute course from a relative (a child preferred they have most patients) and know how to use browser and even word, perhaps connect with old friends on facebook I don't know why not.

        Anyways technology is the biggest idea on TED and we need to use it for more than toys, music, and entertainment. These are tools. Computer majors my heart goes out to you, having to learn so much useless stuff to get a degree for it. Most of it is learned as the job is done anyways. Why internships are so rare and valuable. Start mini-businesses and network (Just some experience talking).

        Edited: Austin I absolutely agree, no question.

        However those who made the decisions are in there by popularity and academic thinking (competition) put them there.
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    Apr 28 2011: 1. It is Constitutional Law, get a seance and ask the founding fathers if you want a definite answer, anything else is speculation.

    2. Maybe they didn't, they just wanted the easy attention.

    3. I'd like to think not, though I've got a feeling it does.
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      Apr 28 2011: I know it is constitutional law haha. What I meant was why do you think it is important the president actually be born in the country?

      I would like to think they just wanted attention but honestly I am not so sure about that.

      Me too.
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        Apr 28 2011: Ted..............Ah I have finally found a soulmate as regards our government and the problems it faces and the lies that issue from them. I too voted for BO because I thought we would really see change. Well, we did but not the kind I expected !
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          Apr 28 2011: see and i don't even notice much change from the last administration and that is what is frustrating to me. The few changes that have been made have been token at best.