TED Conversations

carolyn mcauley


This conversation is closed.

manmade structures are inferior to nature . We must copy nature to be completely successful

Note that heartbeats are like mountain ranges in self similarity. Natures way to be completely successful is fractals Patterns of classical math are outside of nature and just make manmade structure.Smooth model math underwrites the logic behind all current business models.Nature has been excommunicated as worthless and we are addicted to the world we have created . We cling to an old paradym used to turn against nature. Because of self similarity natures fractals not our math is the only answer to our problems.

  • May 3 2014: Here is a great talk that speaks to your topic.

  • thumb

    R H 30+

    • +1
    May 2 2014: i had to look up 'self similarity'... Being natural beings, we have responded to our environment consistently and in the same manner we have responded to each other. We use nature as a 'resource' instead of recognizing it in symbiotic relationship. We still call fellow humans 'human resources' ! No wonder we have no highly developed appreciation of the living world around us! Yet, we are moving towards that realization, and hopefully sooner rather than later we will begin to understand enmasse that our victory is in our relationship with all of life, and that our tools (i.e.,mathematics) are only our feeble attempts to understand the magnificence that surrounds us.
    • thumb
      May 19 2014: actually you are correct ..but check out fibonacci numbers and look up fractals the art it creates is a picture of how nature designs..it take a shape and repeats it over and over..this is called self same similarity . it builds from energy towards the physical. we build by reducing a resource for energy. In this way see duplication as the only way to ecologically fit in. So our days of worshiping straight lines must step back if our community is to be able to learn that natures is more like us and offers our needs in sustainable ways
      • thumb

        R H 30+

        • 0
        May 22 2014: Yes, I have difficulty finding a straight line in nature. I do have a rudimentary understanding of Fibonacci numbers and sequences, as they are used in finance, and a casual interest in fractal configurations. There was a 'bio-engineering' interest back in the '90's that had some traction, but I haven't seen much since - although a TED presenter gave a demonstration on how she was growing her own material to make clothing. It is inevitable, via much research, that we realize our natural world has more to teach us than to 'give' us, and the sooner we understand the dynamics possible the better. Thanks for your response and the interesting topic.
  • thumb
    May 28 2014: .Yes, we should have tp

    " ...
    9. Know human ultra-high accuracy.
    . . . (a) Any person can differentiate any one from 7 billion people in the world;
    . . . (b) A glance at the eye can recognize the thought;
    . . . (c) All unnatural substances are toxic;
    . . . (d) Human body is an ultra-high accurateeconomic system; .... )
    . . . ... '
    (From my OneDrive, public, article 7 : https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D&resid=D24D89AE8B1E2E0D%21414&app=Word&wdo=1 )
  • thumb
    May 19 2014: yes Bucky is one of my gods ....even his poetry speaks of a man with vision of the problem and then he supp;ies us with his answer...But my current update is to recognize that math taught in school alienates us from nature by suppling only models of man made structures. We then duplicate this overrsimplified model to the world around us and incorrectly assume nature is chaotic and therefor dumb> Help me think of ways the whole population can be to recognize the real math that nature uses/ Then on a other note I am now considering RACISM is in fact us as organisms engaging in the creation of a conceptual fractal...based on self same similarity which to the unenlightened is SKIN>SEX ..BUT to a biologist a fractal driven process would places us as identical to structures . in nature, our collective folly is forcing smooth model math as a way of seeing and now itmust step down if it is to remain moral and ethical.
  • May 19 2014: Hi there. If you've not already read of Buckminster Fuller, you might give some of his quotes a review. Much of his thinking on design is around imitation of nature. Great week to ye.
  • May 18 2014: Carolyn I have read about you a couple of times and bells go off in my head on so many levels, I just love what you are about, opps, different subject. "manmade structures" yes and that includes the entire gamut as I am sure you meant. Every single time we veer off course it can be tracked back to your conclusion. Where did you learn to think like that? Einstein (my favorite counselor) said it this way in his book "The world as I see it":
    "I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."

    By the way is that your bicycle outside your shop? I am wondering, do you and the ladies often sit around discussing Mandelbrot's infinitely self-similar functions and the smooth polynomial functions of spline mathematics or is this just one of your hobbies?
    • thumb
      May 19 2014: thanks for the book ides..i will take a look. Thanks for the spine math info...it s a polynomial? But on a more serious note..my 11 bike is hidden away from thieves...bells and all..so I have a solar panel out front,,,and as of yet am still trying to figure out this existential energy stuff. My one proffessor of biology is capable of math and chemistry systems...the other dont know what they are missing...and my artist friends intuit the whole thing but we havent the skill to describe it convincingly..hence this conversation, I need ideas about self same similarity....books to read..film.muses...thanks for your response My thoughts are initiated clearly from a deep respect and love in relationship to ecology that was primarily felt..then in order to communicate this experience I learned the language of science and math which i also love...but it disappointed me in its demand for attention to non human related forms...so I accidently fell down a rabbit hole into further confirmation the universe had information within which after returning to math and science I remain fixated on building a model of which I see,,intuit,know...but still fail to help others...
      • May 19 2014: "I've always believed in numbers and the equations and logics that lead to reason. But after a lifetime of such pursuits, I ask: 'What truly is logic?' 'Who decides reason?' My quest has taken me through the physical, the metaphysical, the delusional -- and back. And I have made the most important discovery of my career, the most important discovery of my life: It is only in the mysterious equations of love that any logic or reasons can be found."- John Nash [In his Nobel acceptance speech]
  • thumb
    May 13 2014: As parts of nature our focus should be on efficient management of food- and shelter problems.
    All other structures are nice- but not need to have.
    Unless we reshape natural materials (without processing them), we will never create structures of similar qualities as what we can find in nature (zero waste, renewable).
    While we need to downsize our needs for new structures, we should still make best use of already available materials wihout producing more (recycling).
    • thumb
      May 19 2014: thankyou for words of wisdom...my current model for nature being a superior builder,,is I am a vegan and attempt to eat only non processed foods. For one month I am now going with uncooked food and have felt a definite yield of massive insight that is within this food/energy...and I feel I am able to defeat a whole host of lower vibrational desires,thoughts I previously was experiencing ,,This came as a good surprise to me because it was not intentionally created..but now I have to follow through on the experience as surprisingly good
  • May 11 2014: Carolyn these threads are begging me to post something. Nature deteriorates faster than man-made anything. Plastics in the sea never seem to disintegrate as one example. Most if not all nature is on a twenty four hour cycle of destruction. Those pesky pyramids are still occupying the best parcel of land in the desert and its been 4000 years. Nature is also more unforgiving than man and I would guess as our population grows so does our savagery toward each other or more like our natural selves. Smooth modeling or the underwritten logic that as we make our worldview more complex the more simple the uses are to operate it from within, is a constant or perpetual machine. As humans model how the birds and bee's fly the more in awe we are of their simple existence. I read that math theory is worthless until its use is discovered. Our evolution is as you enlist an old paradigm like our natural twin. Do we sometimes want to get rid of her or respect and honor her and vice-verse.
  • May 10 2014: You are talking as if man and nature are seperate. We are nature,

    first we must grow that thinking
    Second, we must care for other living beings as if they are not seperate from us
    • thumb
      May 10 2014: separation is an outdated misconception created by philosophy and later science continued using the language created in antiquity and maintained this outlook ..as is evident in our current language.When systems are completely interdependant we falsely maintain they are seperate like death and life..but if both always occur in sequence , both occur together are they not back and front,up and down and are in fact only one event. I see nature as a superior designer and for my own personal connectivity have to do some math that will allow me to grasp its complexity and do it justice..rather then feel myself an alien on an unintelligent piece of dead rock..which is the excuse for our current exploitive nature of business..the earth is not a thing..but like a tree it gorws intelligent life ..as does an apple tree grow apples
    • May 19 2014: We are an abortion of nature, both the ying and the yang. We are it's finest product and it's worse enemy. Right now the yang is way out of balance and begging for correction. The pendulum has to swing back the other way. IMHO :)
    • thumb
      May 19 2014: good insight about nature being similar to us ,,,if you wish is to explore this thought the heading is called self same similarity and in math it is a fractal..look them up in a photo...this is natures beautiful design idea...repeat,repeat,repeat,repeat...My current idea is that we KNOW nature is us ,,,but our intellectual selfs that build business,houses,buy gas dont know nature except as messy(leaves on our lawn ,dirt on our shoes) so we preform poorly..as if without a language to communicate its expertise we reroute to smooth model thinking...squares,straight lines,reduction....HOW CAN WE SEE NATURE if our minds completely fail to identify our fractal nature with hers...if NO ONE KNOWS WHAT A FRACTAL IS???
  • thumb
    May 10 2014: their are proportional harmonies in nature that re occur almost in all organisms...So while I may have constructed a circle...we never did spirals,Fibonacci numbers are recognized by Da Vinci in his painting of a man in a circle ..this is a math sequence which if we learned it in youth would be a basis for precieving growth patterns...and would allow us to intellectuallyconnect to nature avoiding the narrow perceptions of Darwin...or other scientist who reduce nature to unintelligent "stuff"
  • May 4 2014: "If we could see the miracle of a single flower clearly, our whole life would change"- Buddha
    "Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better"- Einstein
    “Humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature”- Einstein

    "Justice lives in the halls of nature"- Keith W Henline
    • thumb
      May 19 2014: way to speak truth to power...I see poetry is definitely on your sketch pad
      • May 19 2014: I wish I could take credit for it, I cannot. It just comes to me, from whence I know not. My dreams are full both day and night. Messengers appear then disappear and leave me with golden bricks of answers and yet I know not even the question. I am but a founder there is only one creator.
  • thumb
    May 3 2014: so you're against structures looking smooth and nice? But there are entities in nature that are smooth and nice, like rocks are worn smooth by the water. Seeds are sometimes smooth and nice.
    • thumb
      May 8 2014: greg..I dont have a bias against smooth structure(by the way curves are not the average person math skill level) my comment is about our linear math does not allow you to look at anything in nature and see its growth pattern. Plants,animals GROW from single cells into binary into quads...then many more shapes and patterns that are everywhere...snowflakes,pinecones,roses,our own bodies. Being only able to calculate a flat plane so I can buy carpet or do incometax is not the math concepts that would let me comprehend nature....so as you can see nature is a stranger to alot of people...If we modernize math to include fractals,phi ratio and other patterns ..it is a net into which all life falls and you comprhend the systems ...but we have a divisionary math at present that portrays the world in flat planes with little value placed on any patterns except straight lines......you cannot see that which you dont know,,,,and our current global state clearly is manifesting our collective alienation...from our own bodies,,,commerce..and the planet
      • thumb
        May 8 2014: well, you might be right, Carolyn. Although math is not the only way one comprehends nature, so people may comprehend it even though they don't comprehend it mathematically. Although even in our present system we do study circles pretty early in the math curriculum? And circles involve curves? So what understanding of curves do you want that you think we're not getting now?
        • thumb
          May 19 2014: Yes but MATH is how we defenD nature in a court of law against the evil twin empire...right? SO regarding curves and circles as their relatives...in school we did not look at what was present around us that appeared curved and that in fact the design that in nature was not the whole design but a temporary state..or always showed up repeated endlessly(bubbles.grapes) < Really this topic is about trying to think of good ways to expand us towards ecological enlightenment..so making math include its best designs in stead of smooth model math clinging to its self importance is my goal. If you can think of anything to help it would be appretiated
      • thumb
        May 19 2014: well, can't someone use math to help nature, Carolyn? For example, if you take a count of some species of bird, and you find that the number of birds of that species is low, you might try to help that species by giving it some protection? That's very basic math, just counting something.

        I do know that the Maasai of Kenya aren't that crazy about math. For example, no man is supposed to know how many cows he has, if one of the cows from his herd is missing he should miss the cow like he would miss his friend, not because he counted the cows and he was one short. Also, when the Kenyan government tries to take a census count of the Maasai, the Maasai resist being counted. They may chase the census-taker out of their territories. Or they may lie to him.
      • May 19 2014: You are absolutely right, I read that 30% of the people in Russia still believe that the world is flat. Some would say that is a bazar statement but I would bet that a survey here in America would produce at least a 10% rate and we are supposed to be educated. But that is just the tip of the iceberg as our election and then re-election of George W Crazy proves without a scrape of doubt. That is when the enormity of the education deficit here in America dawned on me.
        By the way, I thought I coined "George W Crazy" but a quick Google search just produced 14,900 hits, so maybe not.
  • May 2 2014: "A fractal.. typically displays self-similar patterns."
    • thumb
      May 2 2014: correct...but hearbeats are not similar to mans smooth linear math..but similar to the jagged peaks of coastlines. If we lack in our own minds the ability to identify with these truths will we incorrectly identify with only our man made structure and find nature alien?Was I a being who was made much like on a potters wheel..or was I grown like an apple from a tree..there is a difference.