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musk undernotes

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What is Truth?

Burdened perhaps by a history of social, religious and class intolerance, we – as a society, appear to have lost our way on the certainty of the values of things. Long-held beliefs about God, Country, Society, Tribe, Truth or Falsehood are now regarded as either relative or treated with circumspection. Even love is perceived by many as some grand delusion or fuzzy hog-wash? Is it? In an apparent bid for political correctness or perhaps for fear of bigotry and insensibility, we appear to be over-compensating for our mistakes of the past? Are we throwing away the baby with the bathwater?
Can every idea and inferences of their truths simply be sublimed in relativism? If everything is relative, then what constitutes is the fate of truth? As a premise for exploring this further, let us agree - that beyond relativism and individualism, there are fundamental values we must hold true in order to relate with each other, and live together as a collective in tribes, societies, states, countries and the World. If we shy away from our values, what do we have to correct our mistakes? For example, can’t we safely agree - that racism - in any form, is basically and fundamentally ignorant, if not outright inanity. We also can surmise that a person driving against the traffic on a one-way street is in fact doing something unintelligent. I could go on, and on. Altogether, we can conclude that the only safe extension of the truth still lies within the limits of the context in which it is considered. We can live with the fact that within the context of addition in base 10, one plus one being two - is, and will always be true.

P/s: Please resist subliming this discourse into sheer sophistry and semantics.

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    Apr 28 2014: John 8:31-32 NIV
    [31] To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. [32] Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

    :-)
    • Apr 29 2014: sad
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        Apr 29 2014: This man has transformed the lives of millions, nothing sad about that.

        :-)
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        May 1 2014: Why sad, Mr. Patel?
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      Apr 30 2014: Peter,

      I hope Christ was not just talking to the Jews that believed in him. To hold a teaching one must value the teaching. To be a disciple is to be disciplined in what is being taught. There are many teachings and teachers not all of them teach the way to Truth. With that I greatly respect your posts. Regards
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        Apr 30 2014: Hi Larry.
        I guess that on this occasion he was indeed speaking to believing Jews. However the offer is universal.
        1) Read what he has to say.
        2) Evaluate the information for yourself.
        3) Make a decision based on what you find.
        Nothing is more important than the prospect of eternal life, so I reckon a bit of investigation is worth anyone's time. I agree there are lots of Gurus out there; not so many rose from the dead. It is also worth remembering that counterfeiting is pretty pointless unless there exists a genuine article somewhere.

        :-)
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      May 1 2014: Hi Peter,

      What is the truth that Jesus is talking about here? (I'm guessing it is the truth of what we are).

      And what does it mean to KNOW that truth? (I'm guessing via personal experience).

      If my two assumptions above are right, do you reckon Jesus was in effect saying: 'know thyself fully and you will be freed from your incarnation(s) on planet earth-school?'
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        May 1 2014: Hi Joshua,
        Good question. I have no issues with your conclusions.
        The truth according to Jesus is that we are children of the Creator of the Universe. He loves us, and will look after our best interests. By this measure many of us are believing a lie. Living with exactly the wrong worldview.
        How do you know? You just do, we are surrounded by his handiwork, we are his handiwork. World history is unfolding as prophecied. He answers prayer, he directs our paths, he provides our needs. You just know. It's more a matter of knowing Him, rather than knowing thyself. Our destiny is to be like Him.

        :-)
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          May 2 2014: Hi Peter,

          I understand your viewpoint, from my church days a long time ago.

          You say "It's more a matter of knowing Him, rather than knowing thyself. Our destiny is to be like Him." In relation to this I would suggest the statement "I am as God created me".
          IE: are we not already like Him and always have been? It is a "destiny" that is already realised. Except that we just don't fully consciously realise that it is so. If we truly know ourselves, then we know God because we are created of the same "stuff", - in His likeness. So self-knowledge is the route to God-knowledge.

          It seems we are asleep, dreaming a nightmare of separation from God and we need to wake up to the truth that we always were, and still are, nurtured in the arms of God as His children and when we do wake up we will find it has always been so.
          And the nightmare of experiencing life AS IF we were separated will fade away and be forgotten, because this experience is/was enacted in the physical world of time & space, all of which will pass away because they are not eternal.
          When we start living from the higher laws of ultimate truth, this physical world and existence will gradually fade from view because it's purpose as a mirror-teacher will no longer be needed.

          The reason for raising all this is to try and understand if there is room in Christianity to accept that we have made an childish error which needs correction, rather than "done a sin" which needs punishment: ie: whether we are fundamentally innocent, or guilty.

          (Hope you can get your head around my "theology")
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          May 4 2014: Peter and Josh,

          A childish error, the tiny mad idea of "I wonder what it would be like to separate from God", well now I have come to know.

          Our destiny is to be like Him. "I am as God created me" and so the journey of mystery begins. I see the striking similarities of the ties that bind us to the Truth.

          You are both revered and I would like to leave a gift of relevance for my interruption.

          http://allen-watson.com/page135/page106/files/Song%20of%20Prayer.pdf
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        May 3 2014: Hi Joshua,
        My source for knowing God is the bible. This too is the source for your correct assertion that we are "made in his image". The bible is also clear that, judged by his perfect standards, we are inherently evil. My take is that we have attributes in common with god, but we are miles away from being anything like him. Our destiny is far from realised presently.
        The bible also shows us that god came to earth as Jesus Christ. He became just like us, but without the evil component. His death cancelled our evil deeds & earned our immortality. When he resurrected he had a superhuman body, which we will one day have also, assuming we put our trust in him.
        I would agree that we make childish errors, we are children after all. I would agree that god has us in the palm of his hand. We do however have a responsibility to acknowledge god, & accept his forgiveness. Very much like we discipline our own children, they can only move on if they are sorry. If they grow up & lead a life of crime, then we, as parents cannot save them from the consequences.
        I think I am mainline Christian. My authority is the bible. You seem to think that maybe we are not so bad after all. Where is your source for that?
        The bible pulls no punches; if we sin, we die. If we are sorry & ask dad for help, we move on. Quite intuitive really.

        :-)
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          May 4 2014: Hi Peter,

          Thank you for replying.

          I am not sure how to square that we are "made in his image" with simultaneously being "inherently evil"; it is non-logical. Hence my statement "I am (& remain) as God created me", therefore being eternally innocent and not either evil or guilty.

          That is not to say of course that the gift of Free Will has not been used in error. If you inform a child not to put their hand in the fire or it will get burnt (ie: it has consequences) but the child using its free will does so anyway, what does a loving parent do?
          Do they condemn the child as evil, or in any way inherently different from what they were before they put their hand in the fire? Personally I don't think so. Any loving parent immediately rushes to their aid and comforts them in their distress, takes measures to heal the wound and reassures them all is well. The child has made an error to be corrected, not a sin to be punished.

          I think it is the same with us and God. God as unconditional love does not see the error (forgiveness) but at the same time all free-willed actions have consequences. The consequences of having doubted that perfection is perfect, having thought that we could set up a better kingdom than God set up, are that we then experience ourselves as having committed some terrible crime against God - with resultant fear, guilt & shame etc.
          However, none of this has changed our status in the realm of God's love. We remain forever his innocent children as He created us; He remains forever our loving Father in whose arms we rest - but we are asleep, dreaming a nightmare that we have succeeded in separating ourselves from God. But it is impossible to be separated in truth from God because we are One, as like Him, created in His image.
          This is my sticking point with mainline christianity.

          My source is the Bible, "A Course in Miracles", the Nag Hammadi Scriptures (especially the Gospel of Thomas), and several decades reflection on these matters.

          With interest
          Josh
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        May 5 2014: Hi Josh
        Therein lies the problem, we have different bibles. The question then becomes, " Which one is correct ". This is probably beyond our scope here.

        :-)
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          May 5 2014: Hi Peter,
          Thanks for your reply.
          My immediate thought is that maybe it is possible for God to speak through more than one Holy Book (variously interpreted) - but I agree with you, it is probably beyond our scope.
          I wait with much anticipation for the day when all will be revealed to get everyone on the same page of whatever is the one-and-only Truth.
          Best regards,
          Josh

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