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Responding to biased impressions of Muslims in western and other countries

People think that Pakistan is a country where you cannot get outside of your house. People think that that Muslims don't allow their citizen to get education. Islam allows you to get education not only allows you but urges to us to get education.

If you have any questions related this topic you can freely ask me and i will make you to believe that you have wrong impression of us.

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    Mar 26 2014: Dear Salar,
    I am a bit confused about your question. In the title you talk about Muslims and in explanation you talk about Pakistan. Do you mean to say Pakistan is the only country where Muslims live? If I am not wrong Indonesia is the country where largest population of Muslims live.
    Moreover Muslims and Islam are not interchangeable entities. The first is a people and the later is their religion.
    Are you talking about Mulims ( a people), Pakistan (a country) or the Islam (a religion) ?
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    Mar 26 2014: Salar Ehsan,
    The first question that comes to mind, since you say that education is allowed and encouraged in Pakistan, has already been asked in comments on this thread. Are girls and women allowed and encouraged to pursue education as much as boys/men? Do women have all of the same rights as granted to men in Pakistan?

    Can you comment?

    http://www.unesco.org/education/efa/know_sharing/grassroots_stories/pakistan_2.shtml
    • Mar 26 2014: Can you answer same question for USA and support your claim by US civil right branch of Justice department? Colleen, that will be cool.

      If you can't then probably you are not as educated as you may think.
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        Mar 26 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        What question are you referring to? The education of girls/women? I think I can confidently say that girls/women in the USA have more opportunities regarding rights and education. That's all you need to do is look at statistics, and one doesn't have to be extremely educated to do that:>)
        • Mar 26 2014: Colleen;

          "Allowed and encouraged" and then same rights to men and women.

          If you have more then feeling like study or adjudication by Justice department, please enlighten us. If you have just feeling that it is the case, you are welcome to your feelings butt not the facts.
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        Mar 27 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        I have NOT written anything about "feeling", in this comment thread. I posted one link regarding education in Pakistan, and I suggested that one can find LOTS of statistics (facts) regarding education and women's rights in Pakistan.

        salar ehsan, the author of this conversation, wrote..."If you have any questions related this topic you can freely ask me and i will make you to believe that you have wrong impression of us."

        I asked about girls/women's education and rights in Pakistan, and I respectfully await a response from salar ehsan. It has already been brought to your attention RAJ PATEL, that you are simply offering accusations, which are not addressing the topic question.

        In addition to statistics, which can be easily accessed from reliable sources, I have Pakistani friends, some of whom I met here at TED, who are very willing and able to discuss challenges in Pakistan.

        If you are trying to "make" us believe that we have the wrong impression, you are not addressing the issues in a very beneficial way.
        • Mar 27 2014: Colleen:

          I appreciate your involvement and having Pakistani friends. That is good.

          The information that might be of interest to you, that I posted somewhere else in this conversation. Pakistan has about 80 girls for every 100 boys. That is not bad. In sparsely populated part of Pakistan girls enrollment can be way down.In Punjab and Sindhi it can be high. Cities have higher ratio of women than men.

          Thank you
          RAJ
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        Mar 27 2014: In USA universities, diversity is a high priority goal, not only because American businesses desire diversity but because diversity improves the education experience for the students.
        And I must add that women tend to out preform men in universities, there is no doubt that men and women are different but that does mean they are not equal.
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        Mar 27 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        I noticed your comment in which you state..."Pakistan has about 80 girls per 100 boys in the schools".

        That does not seem consistent with information that is available.....statistics.....facts.

        Women's education in Pakistan
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        "Education plays a pivotal role in developing human capital in any society. Education has become a universal human right all around the globe. Article thirty seven of the Constitution of Pakistan stipulates that education is a fundamental right of every citizen,[1] but still gender discrepancies exist in the educational sector. According to the 2011 Human Development Report of the United Nations Development Program, approximately twice as many males as females receive a secondary education in Pakistan, and public expenditures on education amount to only 2.7% of the GDP of the country.[2]"
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          Mar 27 2014: Plus, let's not forget Malala.
        • Mar 27 2014: Pakistan is one of the worst country about education. Male or female not enough attention is paid. But thing shave changed lot in last few years.

          Relatively very few men and women are educated even to literary level.

          My figures comes from UNESCO , Global Education initiative or fund and some other related sources. They are giving 20 % difference at large. But % of education age getting educated is very small.

          Wicki is editable by any one so I generally like to go to UN related organization. But I go to wicki more often then to UN for general guide.

          My problem is not with you. We are talking about ideas and not personal issue.

          Best wishes
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        Mar 27 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        Perhaps you will notice that the link I provided is from UNESCO - education for all - a report by Aamir Latif of Pakistan. You say that is where YOUR figures come from, but the figures you offer do not seem to be consistent with the link I provided. Here it is again, in case you missed it...I asked salar ehsan, the author of this conversation, to comment on it in my first comment in this conversation.

        http://www.unesco.org/education/efa/know_sharing/grassroots_stories/pakistan_2.shtml

        You seem to have changed your story now to reflect that "Pakistan is one of the worst country about education"...."Relatively very few men and women are educated even to literary level."

        At first you said "Pakistan has about 80 girls for every 100 boys. That is not bad".
        • Mar 27 2014: We are getting into semantics. That has no end.
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        Mar 27 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        The meaning of semantics is...
        "Linguistics...The study or science of meaning in language....The study of relationships between signs and symbols and what they represent. Also called semasiology....The meaning or the interpretation of a word, sentence, or other language form..."

        You clearly stated... "Pakistan has about 80 girls for every 100 boys. That is not bad".

        This is not about semantics, it is about providing misleading information.
      • Mar 27 2014: 14th Amendment to the US Constitution:

        "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

        Later laws banned gender discrimination in employment, education, housing and a wide variety of other areas.

        We even now require that universities spend equal amounts of money on men's and women's sports scholarships, even though men's sports generate far more revenue.


        In the United States, more women attend college than men. More women graduate college than men.

        http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2011/gender-gap-in-education.aspx


        As for the specifics of your question, by branch? The Department of Education's mission:
        http://www2.ed.gov/about/what-we-do.html
        "The mission of the Department of Education is to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access."

        Equal Access being the relevant part to this to[pic. Digging:

        http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/know.html

        "OCR enforces several Federal civil rights laws that prohibit discrimination in programs or activities that receive Federal funds from the Department of Education. These laws prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, color, and national origin, sex, disability, and on the basis of age. "


        Gender (sex) being the one appropriate to the question being asked.
      • Mar 27 2014: Could you answer the question put to you directly and honestly in addition to deflecting and criticizing? I'd say that, if you are an example of Pakistan, Pakistan is full of dishonest people.
        • Mar 28 2014: You are entitle to your opinion and I am mine. This place afford us an opportunity to exchange. That include for you to say other dishonest. I shy away from that practice.
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        Apr 1 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        With all due respect, you are not offering an "exchange" with ideas about the topic as presented.
  • Mar 27 2014: Salar

    Obviously you feel that Muslims, as a whole or Muslims in Pakistan or Pakistan is misunderstood; which exactly are you referring to?
    Your English is much better than my Pakistani, but your last sentence may speak to poor English or to a demand that we have a wrong impression and you will make us understand, whether we want to or not?
    Over the years I have met several immigrants to the US from Pakistan who in no uncertain terms would never return to Pakistan. All shunned the orthodoxy of the Islamic faith, perhaps due to the influence of a free society or just the putting away of childish things. I am not sure and it was not my business.
    Is it true that female genital mutilation is taking place in Pakistan or just in other Islamic countries, Can you explain the rational behind such a barbaric act?
    I am also concerned with "honor killings" of young women for whatever reason, perhaps they were raped
    or did not show the proper reverence or perhaps, were not adequately subservient. Please explain 'honor killings" and how the murder of a defenseless women or girl can be considered honorable?
    Wasn't there a little girl shot in the head about a year ago by a Muslim who felt that she should not be attending school? Perhaps, she was shot by a drug induced maniac who had lost all value for human life.
    Women in Saudi Arabia, a Muslim country, prohibits women from driving because it is deemed a health risk, as it may damage her ovaries and pelvis. Is this also the case in Pakistan or just Saudi Arabia. Such thoughtfulness is overwhelming.
    These are some understandings of Islam, whether in Pakistan or elsewhere. Can you address these please without attacking the questioner or the West. For you to do so simply means that you have no reasonable defense and the understandings will stand as understood.
    You seem to have a team effort going here, but since you posed the challenge salar to understand, I would like to hear from you.
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    Mar 26 2014: There is that saying about how "one bad apple" could contaminate a cart of apples.
    It is unfortunate that Muslims and Islam would be subjected to suspicion because of certain acts of extremists.
    I could relate to this because as a Nigerian, you are first suspected, and luckily you could be proved and heard. ( A few shady Nigerians has given the nation a bad name).

    It is the responsibility of every citizen to dissociate himself/herself from murderous acts and to expose anyone who tries to propagate extremist views.
  • Mar 28 2014: Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
    Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
    Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
    Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
    Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
    Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
    • Apr 1 2014: Still You will have Jeff Dehmer of Milwaukee, Gacy of Chicago, Bundy, Boston strangler . Oklahima Bomber and 30000 a year we kill with outselves in USA and two million we put in prisons. One Million rapists and one million child molesters.

      At one tiime we knowingly we let some country kill six million people whose origin was middle east and they were historically speaking were brothers to people you mention,That countrys people look like the country in question.
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        Apr 1 2014: What is your point RAJ PATEL? Are you saying it is common, normal, expected behavior everywhere and it's ok? You mention cities in the USA....are you saying the USA is the same as Pakistan?

        When you say..."knowingly we let some country kill six million people whose origin was middle east..."....who are the "we" you refer to? You say you are "in USA from India". It doesn't really matter where you are from, or where you now live, if you can address the topic, and that is not happening.

        The topic is..."Responding to biased impressions of Muslims in western and other countries".
        Continuing to focus on and accuse other countries of random events is not addressing the topic.

        salar ehsan, the author of this conversation, states..." If you have any questions related this topic you can freely ask me and i will make you to believe that you have wrong impression of us."
        It sure would be nice to have some of our questions addressed, rather than accusations thrown out randomly!
        • Apr 8 2014: Well when one talks about Women in Islam,they have rights to education and everything there is in terms of rights that you find in a country like USA.
          Pakistan on the other hand due to their lack of education in terms of their own religion and science is so less that they bring up children the way the society or culture likes it to be hence women do not get their rights.Their rights are suppressed merely by their parents who bring them up.In Islam all Muslims men and women have the right to pursue education as much as they want weather it be religious education or worldly.
          The point to make here is Pakistan family actions in terms of giving rights to women has no relation to what Islam teaches.
          We as human beings have to seek knowledge and that I mean understanding what the different religions talk about and not accepting what a friend has to say or the media has to say.The first word of the Quran say 'Read'
          Islam is the religion of the truth,the religion that has not lost its authenticity till this day and has to be understood by opening the book'the Quran' in order to understand what it says.
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    Mar 26 2014: NOT all the Muslims are terrorists, but only few of them. However, almost all the terrorists ARE Muslims.

    The problem is that in too many cases, the Muslim extremists who are usually a minority in their society, they usually prevail upon the moderate majority and they run the business of the nation. The world sees too often that the (moderate) masses in the Muslim world get too easily influenced by the extreme Islamists' propaganda, or the moderate Muslim public remaining just indifferent to the extremists' propaganda The world sees too rarely the moderate Muslim majority toppling down or at least opposing firmly the extremist Islamists' propaganda and their criminal acts, and kicking their ass.
    • Mar 26 2014: Yubal:

      So Israeli treatment and humiliation by Jews of Palestinians is not terrorism. Graffiti and grave robbing of Jews episodes are not anti Semitic and terrorism. Black men tied to pick up truck with rope and dragged until death is not terrorism and Oklahoma bombing was just a protest. Cannibal of Milwaukee, Gacy of Chicago or green river killer in the west are not terrorism. Gay men tortured till death in Montana was just civil disagreement. In Iraq thousands of men humiliated in front of their wives and all the things went of in prison was just a young men's misguided play.

      I know what you get. Crusade due to our fear of others is not terrorism even though it may kill ten of thousands in Vietnam. It was done by our organized military. But if you want to fight from oppression and do not have army and system by which to sound your grievance for adjudication, you are terrorist. The violation of rights in Afghanistan and Iraq and Pakistan are collateral damages but those who are killed from the sky without adjudication are just exercise in preventive warfare.

      To be leader of a great nation and to be a great nation we need to apply our own principles to others as we apply them to ourselves. We cannot exempt being an exceptional nation and people. Hitler did that and west did that in 300 years of colonial history. Those day are gone. World is getting flatter. If we cannot have what it takes in moral terms to be a great leader, may be we are a wrong great leader
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        Mar 27 2014: You are repeating the same mistake over & over again in this debate. It’s not that all what you say is wrong. You might be giving true facts. But you are repeatedly refraining from dealing with the main topic of this conversation and what you do instead is finding escape paths by throwing accusations all over on all sorts of other parties. One another escape path you adopt is the path of slogans. I have read all your posts until now in this debate and I find you using too many superficial slogans which sound very nice – but that’s precisely the problem with slogans. They just sound nice, but beyond that they are just hollow piece of information unless you go into details and start making the appropriate deep analysis.

        Suppose somebody will open a debate on TED asking whether USA committed crimes in Vietnam War. In this case, it’s clear that hordes of Americans will participate in such debate and admit that indeed USA had committed some crimes in the Vietnam War. They won’t seek excuses by dumping allegations on all sorts of other parties as you are doing hereby. It will be the same in TED debate if suppose someone would ask about possible Israel’s crimes in Judah & Samaria. You will see Israelis taking part and discussing this issue boldly without throwing allegations globally all over. Many of them would admit Israel’s responsibility.

        The world doesn’t see the same bold approach by the Muslim world towards its own crimes or misdeeds. Generally speaking, the Muslim world, like you, starts scattering all sorts of allegations onto all directions without taking responsibility on its own blatant injustice within its own societies. This is a clear evidence for possessing basic insecurity and for being incapable of confronting its own misconduct. And this is precisely what the world sees and this is precisely what the world judges the Muslim world by.
        • Mar 27 2014: Yubal
          Are you the author of this post? Who is Salar that he/she cannot answer?
          The post states that wrong impressions/bias of Islam/Pakistan will be addressed. What I have seen is that you have not done this. You do not seem to have any interest in correcting any wrongful bias or are unable to, thus leaving the impression that all assertions and bias are justified and true. If I am wrong please correct me.
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          Mar 27 2014: Charles, I do not know Salar, but I do know many people who actually do not check their personal email daily. He probably does not yet realize his thread is approved, unfortunately.
      • Mar 28 2014: Yowling "tu quoque" is NOT A VALID DEFENSE. That Israelis might or might not ALSO be terrorists DOES NOT MEAN MUSLIMS CANNOT BE TERRORISTS! IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS NOT EVIL FOR MUSLIMS TO BE TERRORISTS! Terrorism is always evil, including when Muslims do it.
        • Mar 28 2014: Terrorism is a matter of definition for one. Secondly each human being has capacity to be good or bad.History of different class, race,color, religion, culture has proven good people exist in each and bad people exist in each.

          Thank you for your indulgence
  • Mar 26 2014: Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
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      Mar 26 2014: Bingo !!!
    • Mar 26 2014: Bryan:

      We are recreated and refined Neo-Germans of second world war. We feel innate superiority (Sen. McCain) best expressed in terms of American exceptional. Good fortune with vast open unused land and lots of natural resources and slave labor. Huge exploitation of people and remoteness of our land for any enemy to attack successfully given us sense of superiority. Any one who disagree with us, even Europeans are castigated, called names and their sense and sensibility is questioned. In the beginning we stole patents from Europe like Chinese are stealing now.

      World population is getting weary of us. Our judgment and policies are often uninformed, our action impulsive and uninformed. However in the nature of human society once you get very very rich, you continue to be rich for long long time and often for ever because it is impossible for others to catch up. However we have cost to pay for our ignorance. Our lack of understanding other cultures and their history took us to wars with China, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan that not only hurt them but we payed dear prices . Something happened. Our bed rock foundation of prospering middle class stagnated. Second thing happened is newly liberated , educated and intelligent former colonial people came out technologically and work ethics our match. We need to have new paradigm to live ourselves in this smart world. It will require our understanding of their culture, their society and how they survived under exploitation with bare back and still remained intelligent with vibrant culture.

      Unless we change, we will be at odd with rest of the world.Our name calling and castigating them as a second class culture will lead us to nowhere. All countries need to be our friend. We cannot have white culture in fortress and a rich plantation on the hill, looking down on rest of the people. Tomorrows world need to be appreciated and embraced. To do otherwise will peril our way of life by our own doing. Al Queda cannot.
      • Mar 26 2014: Stop being a pro-Al Qaeda propagandist. If governments of these "Muslim" countries wiped out the terrorist groups that have appropriated Islam for criminal purposes, image would change greatly.
        • Mar 26 2014: Bryan:

          Appreciate your thought.

          Four trillion and 13 years later, we are still willing to crack our head in the rock

          . Question is what should we do to help our people be fed, housed and employed as we used to be able to do. If we do that people will listen to us more and respect us more.
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        Mar 27 2014: Mr. Patel,

        Do this experiment when you visit a house or a room for the first time: If your favorite color is white, you will see a lot of whites. If your favorite color is red, you will see a lot of reds. If your favorite color is yellow, you will see a lot of yellows. If you are color-blind, you will see colors that your eyes and brain allow you to see. You will see what you want to see.

        You don't have to prove to me, or to anyone in this forum, that you are a person of sharp intellect and a sharp tounge. I read your contributions to TED.

        Just like most Americans, most of us have ancestors or relatives who immigrated to America - some many many years ago, some just recently. There is one common denominator why most people immigrate to America - they want to start fresh and have a "better life." Some find what they're looking for, some even exceeded their expectations, and some are disappointed. Some are even extremely disappointed and angry.

        "Racially I am American of Indian heritage. Pakistan's foudner if from my home state in India that shares border with it. My state has felt gfeater blunt of some Paksitnai extremists.." It seems to me and more likely, to most of the contributors to TED that you are one extremely disappointed and angry American Indian. Which is more beneficial, kindness or anger?

        The world is an exciting and beautiful place to live. The world is a miserable place to live. The world is full of good people. The world is full of evil people. The worl is full of decent, kind, and generous people. The world is full of sons of bitches. Take your pick, my friend, and you are right.

        To me, there are basically two categories of people - there are those who see the world as generally beautiful and exciting place to live, where people are generally decent, kind, respectful, and generous. And for some the world is generally evil, prejudice, ...

        I have a choice, you have a choice, and everyone has a choice.
        • Mar 27 2014: Rodrigo{
          I appreciate your comment and your point of view;

          I am not disappointed in my personal life and not angry for my good life and good fortune. I did not come here because I did not like life at other place.But once I did, I am at home and participate not as an immigrant but as a citizen and part of society. I do not act like some immigrant who are submissively thankful.

          I will to continue as a citizen to speak my mind. I have been told throughout my life in USA that my contribution is enlightening.

          I do understand USA and Pakistan both and I have studied them well. I know what works for us abroad. President Kennedy, Humphrey defined them well. I know when we are able to solve our problems and people employed, worlds lesser successful, poor , unemployed, discriminates look at us with hope and faith. But when our guns are bigger and pointing all over other people while not taking care of our citizens here, they feel loss of sense. As Ukraine feels it is violated by Russia, Pakistani feel USA is violating them every day. We are better.

          One has to be very careful to characterize people. There is a difference between angry and passionate and knowledgeable. But if that is your style and it works for you, hey who I am to advise,

          By the way I have a adopted Latino son.
    • Apr 8 2014: Well when one talks about Women in Islam,they have rights to education and everything there is in terms of rights that you find in a country like USA.
      Pakistan on the other hand due to their lack of education in terms of their own religion and science is so less that they bring up children the way the society or culture likes it to be hence women do not get their rights.Their rights are suppressed merely by their parents who bring them up.In Islam all Muslims men and women have the right to pursue education as much as they want weather it be religious education or worldly.
      The point to make here is Pakistan family actions in terms of giving rights to women has no relation to what Islam teaches.
      We as human beings have to seek knowledge and that I mean understanding what the different religions talk about and not accepting what a friend has to say or the media has to say.The first word of the Quran say 'Read'
      Islam is the religion of the truth,the religion that has not lost its authenticity till this day and has to be understood by opening the book'the Quran' in order to understand what it says.
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    Apr 1 2014: Whose responsibility is it to instill correct impressions?

    As a white man American the general impression is that I’m racist and my ancestors were slave owners. (nether one is true*) So is it my responsibility to correct the false impression, or does those with the false impression hold the responsibility?

    I think it falls to me to correct the impression so;
    *FYI: my American ancestors came to America between 1633 & 1820, and not one of them ever owned a slave. And many fought with the other 2,500,000 white men in the Federal forces/Union army and not one in the 750,000 confederate forces.
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      Apr 1 2014: Hi Don,
      You are right... impressions.
      My father's father and family came to America around 1912. and they did not own slaves. In fact they were slaves... not slaves as usually described, technically they were indentured. The Spanish Royal who held them abandoned his property several years before and they continued working it until they were sure he wouldn't return and they got out of town My other grandfather was a sulfur miner and was offered a job in America working in the Pennsylvania coal mines.... he work the mines and lived in mine housing and shopped at the mine store. When added to his boat ticket the bills he had could never be paid off mining coal.... a new word for indentured servitude.

      So as a fellow rich, white, racist who controls the government and want to keep the poor and down trodden in their place, all women bare foot and pregnant, dirty up the environment and curse out those who warn us of global warming while going to creationist meetings...welcome
    • Apr 8 2014: Well when one talks about Women in Islam,they have rights to education and everything there is in terms of rights that you find in a country like USA.
      Pakistan on the other hand due to their lack of education in terms of their own religion and science is so less that they bring up children the way the society or culture likes it to be hence women do not get their rights.Their rights are suppressed merely by their parents who bring them up.In Islam all Muslims men and women have the right to pursue education as much as they want weather it be religious education or worldly.
      The point to make here is Pakistan family actions in terms of giving rights to women has no relation to what Islam teaches.
      We as human beings have to seek knowledge and that I mean understanding what the different religions talk about and not accepting what a friend has to say or the media has to say.The first word of the Quran say 'Read'
      Islam is the religion of the truth,the religion that has not lost its authenticity till this day and has to be understood by opening the book'the Quran' in order to understand what it says.
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    Apr 1 2014: Impressions.... biased impressions...
    I am a westerner, so what are my impressions? I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia for a year. The Saudis live in a monarchy and as I under stand, their king is responsible for their religious shrines. I have visited the Vatican, where the Pope as head of state is responsible for their religious shrines. So let's compare my impressions from both sources.
    I don't know of any Christian Churches or Jewish Temples is Arabia. I didn't see any Mosques or Jewish Temples in the Vatican.
    Some women I saw in Arabia were covered head to toe. Some women I saw in the Vatican were dressed similarly.
    I can list a number of similarities between these two countries but this is a question of bias and impressions.
    My personal experience in both countries is that I found the citizens where charming, polite peoples who treated me well

    So, why are westerns and others so biased of Muslims? It's the press.
    Yes, TV nightly news and The New York Times.

    I am not talking about extremists who commit suicide killing other people in buses... it is pretty well acknowledged that those terrorists are using the Islamic beliefs to foster their own agenda that has nothing to do with Allah's teachings....

    So, what is happening to sour westerners about Muslims....
    Two beautiful girls were murdered by their Muslim father because they dated western boys.... That headline has appeared too many times.
    Thousands of Muslims girls are genitally mutilated so that they will not find pleasure in the reproductive act.

    A Muslim school girl was critically shot when she spoke out about girls attending school for higher education.

    Then there were the Islamic government photos of great works of antiquity being destroyed because they didn't meet Islamic views.

    Again, this could be a long list.

    So, one could say that like the suicidal terrorists, these are acts of man and not about Islam. Having read the Koran, this maybe true, it's about Muslims not Islam.
    • Apr 8 2014: Well when one talks about Women in Islam,they have rights to education and everything there is in terms of rights that you find in a country like USA.
      Pakistan on the other hand due to their lack of education in terms of their own religion and science is so less that they bring up children the way the society or culture likes it to be hence women do not get their rights.Their rights are suppressed merely by their parents who bring them up.In Islam all Muslims men and women have the right to pursue education as much as they want weather it be religious education or worldly.
      The point to make here is Pakistan family actions in terms of giving rights to women has no relation to what Islam teaches.
      We as human beings have to seek knowledge and that I mean understanding what the different religions talk about and not accepting what a friend has to say or the media has to say.The first word of the Quran say 'Read'
      Islam is the religion of the truth,the religion that has not lost its authenticity till this day and has to be understood by opening the book'the Quran' in order to understand what it says.
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        Apr 8 2014: Syed,
        I am not addressing the truth of Islam or the teachings of the Quran or the cultural nuances of the nation of Pakistan. I was addressing why there is a perception of bias in the west about Muslims
        This western "bias" is not about religion. It is about people who use a noble religion as a shield to do bad things, to use cultural inferences in the religion to do bad things.
        If Islam is being blamed by the west for perceived cultural atrocities, then maybe the leading Imams can publically condemn these practices and call for the end of these practices as they are seen in the west.
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    Apr 1 2014: Since I have not received any answer from Salar, let me put my question to the house for open discussion.
    Muslims are followers of Islam. What does it have to do with countries? If there is one non-muslim living in Pakistan, what he has to do with Islam as far as his rights, values and protection as a citizen are concerned? If world has a biased impression of Muslims, why a citizen of a specific country takes it upon himself to set right the bias?
    I believe world does not have a biased impression about Muslims or Islam in general. It may have some impression about certain part of the world (Talibanized) because a lot of terrorism emanates from this part of the world. Even if I focus on some mistreatment on the people of this area by the West, it is of economic and political nature. Why religion is mixed with this?
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      Apr 1 2014: It depends on how you view religions; I view them as a reflection of the culture and thus the country’s culture. It is not the only factor, but it is often a big factor.
      So a country’s culture can you give you a general impression about its people as a whole, but not individuals from/of a country. (Every individual should my judge on their own actions)
      Generally speaking TEDsters are deep thinkers, but not even TEDster is a deep thinker.

      With followers of Islam there are so many sub-groups and diversity; generalizations and impressions require a level of caution when forming them.
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    Apr 1 2014: Perhaps this is a place to revisit this talk from TEDIndia, so few people have watched it.
    Also, have a look at the comments there.

    "One of a dozen Pakistanis who came to TEDIndia despite security hassles entering the country, TED Fellow Asher Hasan shows photos of ordinary Pakistanis that drive home a profound message for citizens of all nations: look beyond disputes, and see the humanity we share."

    http://www.ted.com/talks/asher_hasan_s_message_of_peace_from_pakistan
  • Mar 31 2014: Salar

    I am an American and you don't need to "make" me believe anything, you couldn't anyway. I do not think negatively about the people of Pakistan, in fact I like all people no matter where they come from. Your government however is deceitful and manipulative as is ours. Your government is corrupt as is ours. I truly do love the people of both of our countries, it's the governments I dislike. Don't assume things about our people and think that we all have the wrong impression, most of us do not.

    James
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    Mar 30 2014: It is a place that we do not understand.


    "We went to Pakistan to invesitage why suicide bombings, IED use, and the Taliban are all growing at alarming rates.

    In a recent trip to Pakistan to report on the recent spike in the region's violence and bloodshed, Suroosh Alvi heard over and over the same sentiment from people on the ground: America's war on terror is falling flat on its face. The military conflict in neighboring Afghanistan, repeatedly cited by locals, sends a constant flood of guns, refugees, militants, and heroin flowing into Pakistan. Heroin is now actually cheaper than hashish in cities like Lahore, and the Kalashnikov culture, the foundation of which was laid 30 years ago when the CIA financed the mujahideen, is all-consuming. According to the Pakistanis he spoke to, it's all taken a devastating toll on the country and is creating the next generation of militants."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVeN1S2c0Xo
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    Mar 27 2014: Hi Salar
    Sharia law sends shivers down the spine of anyone used to the laws & practices of the "west". Any comment ?
    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_law#Laws_and_practices_under_Sharia
    THEFT :-
    One punishment is imprisonment. Another is amputating (cutting off) the hands or feet.
    ADULTERY :-
    and if a married man or woman commit adultery the punishment should be 100 lashes and then stoning to death.
    APOSTASY :- (Converting to another religion)
    In most interpretations of Sharia, the punishment for apostasy is death.
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      Mar 27 2014: Peter, Sharia Law is not universally applied in Muslim countries (by that I mean countries where muslims are vast majority as population). In many countries it applies as personal statute of a Muslim.
      See this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Use_of_Sharia_by_country.svg
      There is also something such as Cannon law.
      Most religious canonical texts are horrific to modern values. Sharia, Fiqh and Halakha are the most unpalatable.
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    Mar 26 2014: Can’t help but notice you said “people” and I have to ask if you include girls and women in that, for many Muslims behave as if girls and women are property and not humans with the same god given rights as men.

    As to Pakistan I think Wikipedia says it well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Pakistan , basically overall Pakistan is better than most, but still is not as good as others, Yet! (All signs points to that it is still improving, so in years to come maybe Pakistan could be a shining example)
    And that is overall, within the country (like most countries) there are multiple cultures with each one being unique there should be no single impression for them all.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t have the impression that Pakistan has the class system issue that India has. And that is that one example of a positive impression that I have, so don’t think it is all negative.
    • Mar 26 2014: Don:
      Apart from semantic women are grossly mistreated in Israel and certainly in USA so are the colored and gays. Women once married are almost a property in Orthodox Jews and to get a divorce is like passage through hell. In 2008 election we show the barrier women face here and their numbers in legislature , business, religion are not reassuring.May be ask Mica Brzezinski in Morning Joe.

      India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Bangladesh at least had woman head of state and we cannot get them to be VP. With more than million rape a year with 90 % men getting away with it is not to brag about women's right. Certainly it is out right depressing to see them treated as a second class in the military with men being openly contemptuous of responsibility after raping them.

      Indian cast system is in decline at a faster rate than equality for the blacks, Hispanics and poor. We are rich men's paradise like India and Pakistan. Women suffer everywhere and future is at best hazy. Bible certainly says that women are property and 90 % suppose to go to church
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        Mar 26 2014: Thanks for the prescriptive.
        My knowledge of this area is limited, but value learning more.
      • Mar 28 2014: "Apart from semantic women are grossly mistreated in Israel and certainly in USA "

        Please explain to me how women are mistreated in the USA.
  • Mar 26 2014: Are girls urged to get as much education as boys?
    Are women urged to get as much education as men?
    • Mar 26 2014: Are you talking about Pakistan or USA? Ask Mica Brzezinski of Morning Joe on NBC. Did USA ever had a woman head of State? How many women are raped in USA and in US military every year and how many men are raped?
      • Mar 28 2014: Pakistan. YOU said the thread was about Pakistan. YOU ARE SO DISHONEST THAT YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER A DIRECT QUESTION IN A DIRECT MANNER.

        Obviously, Pakistanis must be extremely dishonest and untrustworthy people, if you are an example of a Pakistani.
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    Mar 26 2014: I doubt that Westerners think people in Pakistan cannot leave their houses. I, for one, have never heard this claim.

    In terms of education, could you comment on whether Islam or your country urges the education of girls in academic subjects in parallel with the education of boys? Does the policy in this area differ depending on where young people live?
    • Mar 28 2014: Since the original querant has refused to answer direct questions in a direct manner, I'm not at all surprised that the rest of his statements are full of lies .
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        Mar 28 2014: The original querant is named Salar and has not yet been part of this conversation.
  • Apr 13 2014: I agree with Raj - The news media, including Fox, does a poor job presenting international news. Maybe the Wall Street Journal and the Christian Science Monitor do a better job than most.

    On a different note, to try to bridge the knowledge gap, my church asked 3 local Imams to take the pulpit and present their views of islam. One was very interesting and it led to a interesting discussion. The other 2 basically said we should be beaten to death, especially the women.

    I think sometimes people are their worst enemy.
  • Apr 10 2014: Ehsan:

    This is my last posting on this issue.

    It is almost impossible for Pakistan to change American mind. Terrorism and Islam are carved in their mind. Ask Germans visiting or living in NYC. They will hear about holocaust. Even Israel PM complained about liberals in USA. He said it is like hitting head in the rock. He just not able to do it. Nations and communities often get locked in a image that cannot be easily gotten rid off. Ask Mormons. They still have image problem after more than a century.

    Why? American media is one. Very little coverage of foreign countries except for few. In the story of The Great Gatsby there is a character of Daisy. Daisy is locked into what givers her pleasure and what she wants. She comes and leaves peoples lives, devastates them and walks away like nothing happened, She is passionate when involved but when she leaves like she never knew one. American care less for Pakistan. They cared much less about Ukraine and never offered help if any kind while they have been in turmoil for years. Suddenly Russia is our target and we love Ukraine. Greece, Italy, Spain, Ireland did not get any money from us during their current recession.

    Pakistan has to manage its own affairs, Fix relation with India, Afghanistan, Russia and countries in that part of the world. Iran can be more help due to proximity and ease with which gas can be obtained. China if they import stutf from Pakistan at least for West China.

    The education, economy and India are the key. India is export market and is a good place to get International confidence for investment in Pakistan. If India do trade with you there is a level at which world will think they can do too. You should ask help for education from other countries. You should also send lots of students to foreign countries with guaranteed return. Education is the Allah's Allah. Knowledge sets one free.

    Best wises
  • Apr 8 2014: Your point is correct 100%.I was giving my view of things on the topic in question not replying to what you said actually.Your view I completely agree the Imams should clear the misconceptions there are and condemn the wrong acts that jeopardize Islam as a religion
  • Apr 5 2014: This report is attributable to British Council to Maryam Rab dated March 16th

    What effect these reforms have had for women after 2010

    Women occupy 78 out of the 342 seats in Pakistan’s National Assembly. To an extent, we can attribute this progress to better access to education for women: In 2011, more than 42 per cent of Pakistan’s 2.6 million high school students were girls. In 1993, in Pakistani universities, women constituted about 22 per cent of the 68,000 students. In 2012, that figure rose to 47 per cent of Pakistan’s 1.1 million university students. The statistics for 2010-11 show that there are some universities where the number of girls exceeds that of boys. At the University of Karachi, for example, 14,785 female students are enrolled, compared to 12,419 male students.

    Employment rates also reflect this improvement. Pakistan’s largest lender, Habib Bank, hires 50% female MBA graduates. Another big organisation, Engro Chemicals, has 100 women in management positions. Thanks to this demographic change in its senior workforce, the company last year introduced flexible working hours, a daycare centre, and a support group where female employees can discuss challenges they encounter.

    However, the gender divide in academia remains worrying. There are 22,231 male faculty members compared to 10,109 female faculty members in Pakistan’s 139 universities. Unfortunately, if we take out the entry level positions, there remain 1,841 women (18 per cent), whereas 30 per cent of male faculty members are assistant professors, associate professors and professors.
    • Apr 8 2014: Well when one talks about Women in Islam,they have rights to education and everything there is in terms of rights that you find in a country like USA.
      Pakistan on the other hand due to their lack of education in terms of their own religion and science is so less that they bring up children the way the society or culture likes it to be hence women do not get their rights.Their rights are suppressed merely by their parents who bring them up.In Islam all Muslims men and women have the right to pursue education as much as they want weather it be religious education or worldly.
      The point to make here is Pakistan family actions in terms of giving rights to women has no relation to what Islam teaches.
      We as human beings have to seek knowledge and that I mean understanding what the different religions talk about and not accepting what a friend has to say or the media has to say.The first word of the Quran say 'Read'
      Islam is the religion of the truth,the religion that has not lost its authenticity till this day and has to be understood by opening the book'the Quran' in order to understand what it says.
      • Apr 9 2014: Syed:
        My posting that you indicated was part of British Council report. It just gives status report and not judgment. For variety of reasons Pakistan has not keep up pace with India. That is a worry. As far analysis of it, I have not dealt with it.

        Your point of family responsibility is well taken. Female education is a lagging indicator and has been so with all the cultures. We have found cities are much ahead in education and country side behind. Karachi has more female than men in many colleges.

        I am not a religious person. All religions have multiple interpretations by different people. Its influence depends on where what interpretation is accepted. During dictators Span and Portugal had more conservative interpretation of catholic followers. While USA, Canada and western Europe were relatively liberal. Same is true in India city vs villages.

        I understand what you are saying and you presented point well.
  • Apr 3 2014: Any discussion of this sort requires a truthful and honest back and forth.
    For instance, let me quote Mr. Bryan Baloney below and some of his emotional retorts.
    Of course I will have to paraphrase his comments. Hope you don't mind.
    Wipe out the CIA, the FBI, the NSA. Wipe out the rape of other countries resources by Amerika.
    Wipe out the fall into deep poverty wherever Amerika has gone to "spread Demon-ocracy" and
    destroyed every burgeoning democracy in its path.
    Wipe out the polluting of other countries in their rape of resources.
    Wipe out the lies they have been telling the world for years about who they are and what they do,
    all while spying on everyone including their friends.
    Wipe out their looking the other way while human rights are violated every day, if it serves their needs and
    their media lies.
    Wipe out the finger pointing at others while people look away and they do their criminal acts of murder,
    using regular people, at regular jobs, to kill others thousands of miles away using drones and pay them a good
    wage to not go crazy from the denial of the real truth of what they are really doing. Wipe out having ignorant,
    well-trained and well-brainwashed "team players" also called soldiers, tell people from poverty areas that it's okay to
    kill people they tell them to. Wipe out poor people from Amerika being trained to kill poor people in other countries.
    Wipe out going into other people's neighborhoods (countries) and pushing them around again and again, and when they finally push back say, "look what they just did to us?" So attack them, kill them and call them terrorists, godless people and tell everyone within ear shot, hell, within shot, we're the good guys.

    Wipe all that out and it will fix a lot of the misperceptions of who Amerikans really are.
  • Apr 2 2014: I am going to have several postings on this issue. I am US citizen and was born in India. My loyalty is to USA. I am going to exercise my free speech right and am free to criticize USA. I am fond of Pakistan and it hurts me that We have three countries in South Asia where there should have been only one. British divide and rule has created what we have.
    My postings will be graphic. They are view from my heart. So many players have different views and they may not agree with me. But I take it upon me to state my views.
    The founder of Pakistan was from my Home State in India. Jinah, the founder and Gandhi and Sardar Patel were other great leaders from mf things go right in coming election other great one from my Home state may be Prime Minister. Currently And for lat ten years he has been refused visa by USA.
    The India, US, UK, Israel and gulf states are all involved in Pakistan’s through history. Pakistan lost its parents right after birth. The responsibility to rule an new nation felt on inexperience leader with no vision. It asked USA for help and USA willingly obliged and had given to Pakistan billions of dollars. For that money America received de facto permanent right. It was a bargain between Prostitute and John. There were deal sand fights over deals and contentiousness over who gave what for what. America got access to Karachi Port and proximity to Russia and China. That will help USA if war is to breakout. Pakistan gave US everything that made Russia’s exist from Afghanistan. It lead to 9/11 attack and our long wars in that part of the world. US gave money and weapons and bought into Pakistani Army. USA helped Pakistan with Nuclear projects resulting nukes for Pakistan. USA tried to stop nukes but it was too late.
    US also helped with civilian projects with smaller amount. But half heartedness, corruption, military dominance etc reduced its benefits to substantial extent. This is very contentious issue in Pakistan as well as USA. Both sides have some truth
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    Apr 2 2014: Why do these biased impressions exist? What do Americans know about Muslims? Where are Americans getting their information on Muslims? Who are the informants of the goings on of Muslims? What kind of interactions have Americans had with Muslims? Where can Americans go to get better informed about Muslim culture?

    What kind of impression do Muslims in other countries have of Americans? What do Muslims in other countries know about Americans? Where are Muslims in other countries getting their information on Americans? Who are the informants getting the information of Americans out to Muslims in other countries? What kind of interactions have Muslims had with Americans? Where can Muslims in other countries go to get better informed about American culture?

    We all have impressions of different people and cultures. Bias opinions and perceptions often times come from a source or multiple sources. It becomes very difficult to change the minds of people who have adopted or developed the bias. Something usually has to happen, something learned, an experience gained that is contradictory to the way they currently think. Until there is evidence to the contrary it would require blind faith to believe an opposing view of currently held convictions.
  • Mar 31 2014: Even in western countries many girls are encouraged to leave education early and are not encouraged with their education, because their parents and the wider religious community force the principles of married life and being a home maker as a greater priority. I know this because I have observed it with my own religious (mainly Sihk and Muslim) class mates. Often religious girls are discouraged from the school social scene such as school camp and discos.

    This is not the same for all of them, many become very educated and are encouraged, but the way Muslim and Sikh girls are treated in this country is just a sampler of the way I imagin they are treated in Pakistan, India, Indonesia, malasia etc... And it goes deeper than the laws, its about family culture as well.

    When men and women start to beleive women are mans equal, only then will change happen. And I suggest women not to wait on the man becoming more moral regards this issue. Woman like always will need to do it for themselves.
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      Apr 1 2014: Good points Mint Thinny,
      Traditionally, women in all parts of our world have taken the lead in encouraging equality for ourselves. It would be WONDERFUL if entire societies encouraged equality for EVERYONE:>)
  • Mar 30 2014: I don't know if the west is biased or prejudice if referring to the the third world stench of Islam. The obsessive compulsiveness by the Islamic intelligentsia for all things western is myopic. Disrespecting every religion including your own is an Islamic virtue but a viral cancer and the brain disease that persons in the west must engage. Zombie like adherence in all things Islamic means to hate humanity first then yourself. And is why Islam allows you to get an education. My only question is why do you care what impression the west has of Islam when it obviously doesn't matter to any person practicing the faith.? I look forward to your reply.
  • Mar 28 2014: Salar,

    Could we do you think people have that impression of Pakistan?
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    Mar 28 2014: Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq’s Green Zone by Rajiv Chandrasekaran
    The Ayatollah Begs to Differ: The Paradox of Modern Iran by Hooman Majd
    Understanding Iraq by William Polk
    Few books I recommend.
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    Mar 28 2014: Fritzie wrote: The original querant is named Salar and has not yet been part of this conversation. Mr. Patel, are you and Salar Eshan the same person or at least friends?

    There are still many valid questions that you have to answer.

    "If you have any questions related this topic you can freely ask me and i will make you to believe that you have wrong impression of us." Salar Eshan ... or maybe Raj Patel? This is your chance to correct whatever "wrong impressions."


    "I have never experienced another human being. I have experienced my impressions of them." Robert Anton Wilson

    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/robertanto361650.html#I48jceXYsDoRZ4Pb.99

    "A thousand words will not leave so deep an impression as one deed." Henrik Ibsen

    "It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it." Benjamin Franklin

    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/b/benjaminfr385547.html#5RvPvfILIJx3SHA5.99
    • Apr 1 2014: Francisco:

      Me and Ehsan are not same and are not from same coutnry, I am in USA from India. I do not know what coutnry Ehsan is. I have never talked or seen him.

      I will have series of posting before this ends that will explain Why Pakistna is where it is and what if the answer to Ehsan;s questiont
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        Apr 1 2014: While you did not answer many of the questions on this forum directly, I recognize and appreciate your effort.

        PS
        We are living in an imperfect world. You and I and our families live in America. Whatever happens here, good or bad, affects us all. I will share with you one of my favorite Irish blessings:

        God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
        Courage to change the things I can,
        And wisdom to know the differrence.
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        Apr 1 2014: RAJ PATEL,
        You say you will answer " Ehsan;s questiont ".

        salar ehsan has not asked any questions. S/he has presented an "idea" and said that s/he will answer questions related to this topic....
        "If you have any questions related this topic you can freely ask me and i will make you to believe that you have wrong impression of us."
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      Apr 1 2014: I have had the same feeling Francisco, that RAJ PATEL and salar ehsan are one and the same.
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        Apr 1 2014: I've been watching Charlie Rose Show for almost 20 years. I have become familiar with the patterns of behavior and mannerisms of various cultures during conversations and interviews.

        Below is just one of the many comments of Mr. Patel. It's not easy to gauge in written form his feelings or emotions. Is it out of concern as an American citizen or resident? Or, is it intense dislike or even hatred to certain groups of people in the this country and other parts of the world?

        "Apart from semantic women are grossly mistreated in Israel and certainly in USA so are the colored and gays. Women once married are almost a property in Orthodox Jews and to get a divorce is like passage through hell. In 2008 election we show the barrier women face here and their numbers in legislature , business, religion are not reassuring.May be ask Mica Brzezinski in Morning Joe.

        India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Bangladesh at least had woman head of state and we cannot get them to be VP. With more than million rape a year with 90 % men getting away with it is not to brag about women's right. Certainly it is out right depressing to see them treated as a second class in the military with men being openly contemptuous of responsibility after raping them.

        Indian cast system is in decline at a faster rate than equality for the blacks, Hispanics and poor. We are rich men's paradise like India and Pakistan. Women suffer everywhere and future is at best hazy. Bible certainly says that women are property and 90 % suppose to go to church..."

        I'm wondering ...

        Best of luck, Colleen.
        • Apr 8 2014: Well when one talks about Women in Islam,they have rights to education and everything there is in terms of rights that you find in a country like USA.
          Pakistan on the other hand due to their lack of education in terms of their own religion and science is so less that they bring up children the way the society or culture likes it to be hence women do not get their rights.Their rights are suppressed merely by their parents who bring them up.In Islam all Muslims men and women have the right to pursue education as much as they want weather it be religious education or worldly.
          The point to make here is Pakistan family actions in terms of giving rights to women has no relation to what Islam teaches.
          We as human beings have to seek knowledge and that I mean understanding what the different religions talk about and not accepting what a friend has to say or the media has to say.The first word of the Quran say 'Read'
          Islam is the religion of the truth,the religion that has not lost its authenticity till this day and has to be understood by opening the book'the Quran' in order to understand what it says.
      • Apr 9 2014: i and patel are not friend i dont know him
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    Mar 28 2014: Greetings, Salar. I'd like to know what sort of education I'd be getting as a white female, if living in Pakistan, and lets say, able to speak Urdu. Please be honest and as informative as you can. Lets compare with what I can get in Europe and the USA. Many Thanks :)

    P.S. My personal experience about Muslim culture and psychology is very limited, but some years ago I have personally known the ambassador in Europe from Pakistan. He was highly educated, but in England.
    • Apr 2 2014: Vera:

      You may like to consider couple of factors:
      (1) Pakistan has very little resources compared to Europe/

      (2) Pakistan was exploited for more than two hundred years by Europeans. Until independence person has to go to Europe to get legal education and argue a case in the courts. Many industries were prohibited and Engineering education was like a trickle.

      In USA until land grant Universities were created women' education was limited. There were no founding women who were part of the team that wrote constitution and women were able to vote much much later.

      In USA we are still struggling for women's equality. Europe has full gay rights while in USA it is patchy. Would you ask similar question about USA.

      I wish people create a question study the perspective. Conservatism of all religions are problematic. Europe had many women head of states and USA none. Is it due to American influence of fundamental christian community? Some our brightest do believe blacks should not have ssme rights as whites?
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        Apr 2 2014: Thank you, Raj.
        I'm trying to learn from different sources.
        Many of your answers are correct. No answer from Salar.
    • Apr 3 2014: vera nova i just read the whole conversation. suppose if you are in pakistan you want to get education your religion urges you to get education but when you go outside of your house some extremist who dont allow you to get education they forbade you to get education. and from there gesture they seems like islamic person but they are not. they are not obeying the islam. now i am coming to your point first of all it depends in which area do you live in pakistan. where i live women are gettting education freely and the number of female students in universities near me are more then male students so it means you can get education but as patel has told you about resources we have too much resources but we are not using in the best way so it depend on the area. i am in Lahore.
  • Mar 27 2014: As with many aspect of society and culture, it tends to be the extremes that outsiders see.

    That said, I had a friend from Saudi Arabia that told me how women are forbidden by law from operating machinery or being alone with a man who is not their husband. So, buildings with elevators have to employ a married couple to operate the elevators. Women are not allowed to press the buttons of the elevator, so a man mush be there, and his wife must also be there so that the elevator operator is not riding alone with a female passenger.

    While that sort of discrimination pales in comparison to the extremists that shoot a girl for attending school or refusing to wear a burka, it is still outrageous, out of date, Medieval mindset to most Westerners.
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    Mar 27 2014: Mr. Patel or Mr. Eshan:

    1) Does the USA need Pakistan and India more than Pakistan and India need the USA? Are there more USA citizens immigrating to Pakistan and India? Why?

    2) Do Pakistan and India need the USA more than the USA need Pakistan and India? Are there more Pakistanis and Indians immigrating to the USA? Why?

    3) Do the rest of the world immigrate to Pakistan and India more than the USA? Why?

    4) Do the rest of the world immigrate to the USA more than Pakistan and India? Why?

    5) Do Christians immigrate more to non-Christian countries? Why?

    6) Do non-Christians immigrate more to Christian countries? Why?

    7) Do the rest of the world have a better impression of Pakistan and India than the USA? Why?

    8) Do the rest of the world have a better impression of the USA than India and Pakistan/ Why?

    9) Would you rather live in Pakistan or India than in the USA? Why?

    10) Would you rather live in the USA than in Pakistan and India? Why?

    Do you think you gained friends when you said this to Colleen?
    "Can you answer same question for USA and support your claim by US civil right branch of Justice department? Colleen, that will be cool.

    If you can't then probably you are not as educated as you may think."
    • Mar 31 2014: Mr/ Moreno"

      You must have immigrated here and must not be content in the country left. I had a personal reasons to leave India. I was choosing between Germany and USA, My Father was doing business with Germany and was interested in collaborating with one company in USA. Then I went to University here to study in related field, During that time I developed difference with my family about my marriage and finally I left my family.

      If I had gone to India, financially I would have been better off since I would have establish group of companies. But I left all that over right person to marry. USA was at right time and right place in my fortune.The I am to found our same family problems happen here to. MY close white friend wanted to preferred black girl but parent were no where there. Finally I told them to meet half way and he married to Mexican girl. I had a privilege to walk her down the aisle in marriage. They are happily married and have two children.

      As I told you since then I have adopted American born Ecuadorean (part) American born son and he is living with me.

      Not every one is looking for dollar as their God and their everything. India and America are strong partner and stronger in business. My extended family members (nieces and nephews) have married to Chinese, Christian, Jew, Muslim,Catholics and one this January adopted black boy. My family spread out in US, Italy, Australia, Singapore, Canada, USA and UK. We are spread out all over India. Our perspective is more International and solely each one's own little family. It has worked well for us.

      Many Pakistani has immigrated all over the world. Some time on their own to make money Some time they were invited as worker, advisers , as business people. World has got bigger.

      Many Americans are living in India and to have immigrated there from USA and Europe. The travel to India is big time and yes Indians have done well here. Recently Microsoft appointed Indian man as CEO.
  • Mar 27 2014: Pakistan has about 80 girls per 100 boys in the schools. In higher education there may be more girls as thye are everywhre now a days. Apparently cities are more cosmopolitan and more women will go to school. This will apply to middle and upper income level too. At lower income level and in the smaller communities, particularly mountain area in most of the west Pakistan there will be more conservatism.

    Considering coutnry's economic level and political situation the ratio is decnet. In some coiuntries women outnumber men in higher education. In USA for blacks and hispanics it is similar situation. But it is fast changing at least among blacks. Among hispanics immigration fear and practices of having children at earlier age hinders ratio to a extent.
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    Mar 27 2014: If you use addition they'll be somebody saying your just angry & don't know your times table. People see what they want to see. LL Cool J quotes

    People are blind to reality and only see what they want to see. Unknown quotes

    Try to become the kind of person that people are anxious to see you as, and after you leave, they will have a lot of thinking to do. Unknown

    The earliest traces of the enlightening part of the proverb date back to the Cherokee tribe of Native Americans, who said “Don’t judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes”. Nelle Harper Lee, an American authoress, was seemingly inspired by the saying of the Amerindians in her book “To Kill a Mockingbird”, where she wrote, “You never really know a man until you understand things from his point of view, until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.” Lee, Harper. To Kill a Mockingbird. J.B. Lippincott & Co., 1960

    http://www.searchquotes.com/quotation/Try_to_become_the_kind_of_person_that_people_are_anxious_to_see_you_as%2C_and_after_you_leave%2C_they_wi/620504/

    http://www.planetofsuccess.com/blog/2011/developing-empathy-walk-a-mile-in-someone%E2%80%99s-shoes/
  • Mar 26 2014: In Chicago we had about 500 murders last year. That is lot for a city of three million. If you are thinking visiting chicago you will think about it. However facts can be misleading. 80 % of the murders are in few precincts. In any country and Pakistan it is same. I have tried to figure this out. If you take our political violence that is mostly due to Afghan war, Pakistan momicide rate will be high compared to Eruope but not compared to USA.

    Pakistan is poor and politically not at par, but people are cultured, educated and life is colorful and vibrant. Their music and entertainment will stand with any country in the world. They are sophisticated, intelligent and first class people. I have great deal of respect for people. Religious extemism is confined to small par of population like in USA. In USA it is confined to primarily black neioghborhoods. There is symmetry, If you sibstract political violence and shock at poverty, I think there are no better smarter, educated people in the world.

    Most Pakistanis kids if to start life in America I bet they will be in top class and when grown up there is 95 % probability that they will be in top 10 % of American population. They have been dealt bad hand.

    Racially I am American of Indian heritage. Pakistan's foudner if from my home state in India that shares border with it. My state has felt gfeater blunt of some Paksitnai extremists.
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      Mar 27 2014: What you say is true, but you are mixing up things. You are talking about prejudice and stereotyping which Pakistan is subject to by the West. But in this, Pakistan is not alone. Also India is subject to prejudice and stereotyping and there are others countries as well going through this including Israel. And all this goes also in the opposite direction when the West is also subject to stereotyping by Indians and other Asian people.

      If you take the murder rates, as you are doing, then Mexico I guess is far worse than both USA and Pakistan. But because you are mixing up different things, you miss the correct picture. See how:

      Even though Mexico has such high murder rates, Mexico is not considered commonly a global threat and it’s simply because Mexico or Mexico’s criminal organization involved in these murders, do not try to export their criminal acts globally as an ideology. Indeed they try to export drugs but it’s just for making money and not for ruling the other nations or the world by spreading their ideology//religion. We never see or hear any Mexican suicide bomber exploding him//herself in the name of drugs business.

      Now let’s return again to stereotyping. As Indians and Pakistanis are very similar by their culture, look, race, because of having a common origin and a lasting common living for millenniums, they both are subject to many common stereotyping in the West.

      But now see this: With all these common features and stereotyping, ONLY Pakistan is perceived as a global threat and NOT India. The world is not afraid of India having nuclear weapon but the same world is anxious by Pakistan having the very same nuclear weapon like India. This anxiety is not so much due to Pakistan’s government itself, but due to Pakistan’s relatively abundant religious extremists and terrorists groups and the government’s unwillingness to fight determinedly these groups.
      • Mar 27 2014: YUBAL:

        I thank you. Your point of view is popular in USA. We are good at such a fine distinction.

        In popular opinion Muslims countries will remain second class.

        I will make one simple observation. We have killed more Pakistani including women and children then their killing Americans or westerners. We kill with high tech weapons that most Pakistani consider deliberate murder. In our world killing by drones for our opponent is justifiable self defense. While their killing for constantly insults and humiliation they are subjected to is criminal.

        I agree 9/11 was a criminal act. I can also agree killing by drones where as many as 10 ordinary people die for one crooks. I do not think we allow this in USA to capture a worst criminal. We insist on due process. Most people killed in Pakistan by us just belong to a group that want to protect their values and way of life in their own domicile. They did not come here to kill.

        What I am suggesting the initiator of this talk that they have to stand up for fairness, due process and justice same values that we have. They have to stand up for self respect and fight back humiliation. Crime rate in Pakistan is very similar to USA in most major cities. Chicago will qualify to be one of their city for crime rate purposes. In Chicago where I live, my neighborhood had one homicide in last 20 years. While some other areas in the city has week end special all the time.

        For Pakistan they have North West Frontier Provinces that even British over 200 years of History could not control. It is true today. When effort is made to control them, violence looks worst than it is.

        best wishes
        • Mar 28 2014: Wipe out Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and other such terrorist organizations. That will fix a lot of the misperceptions.
  • Mar 26 2014: I understand you completely but there must be a better way to promote this in western media. not to say Aljezeera doesn't work in that category but i think it maybe would help if there was a show on a Muslim family living in a western country might actually work too. that way more people can be touched and possibly enlightened.
    • Mar 27 2014: KERA:

      i am not shy about answering for others who may not for a reason.

      Last year there was a Internatinal survey about other coutnries liek of dilike of USA. Excluding politicains and rich, among masses only two countries had maority opinion that was positive of USA. They thought we are arrognat, war monger, put down other people , other socities etc. French /freedom fries is a good example. Invasion of Iraq on faulty intelligence and we were in bed with Sadam for years, including its was with Iran where hudnreds of thousands of kids wre killed. No apologu from here. The carnage was homage to Israeli lobby.

      Pakistan is poor . We know from American poor that they have extra ordinary paradigm to operate with and often things are not good. Violence, not taking care of chikdren, making babies at younger age, etc is substantially more for the poor in USA comapred to well off classes or income and power level.

      You are to the point on Muslim family. You will be surprised to know on the average they have hgher income, there kids do better than American kids to very large extent. No matter how hard we try, we get failing grade in raising our children. The cannibal of Milwaukee's had such wonderful parents and still they are, it is gut ranching that they have to endure their son's legacy. Patricide or infanticide happends and news media informs us. Same thing Muslim do have their problem kids. However ust like Jeffry, that is exception. Most Muslim countries, if you visist, people are very civilized, polite, caring and welcoming that is surprising to western visitors.

      We got along well with Muslims before WW2. Then rise of Israel and rise of religion fundamentalism in all maor religions have led us to a place where religion do what they are best. You can have a religion without God but not without Devil. People do not practice religion. Even they speak in his name they do the bidding of Devil. This is true of fundamentalist Chirstians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus et al.