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The EU and USA are not representing the general publics opinion by employing sanctions on Russia

The EU and USA have both employed sanctions on Russia, however this does not represent public opinion with many people believing Crimea, with or without the support of the internal Russian military had a right to vote democratically for their independance.

the EU and USA are behaving hypocritically and not in the interest of the people they are supposedly meant to represent.

Additionally, there seems to be no evidence that Russia pose a further threat to Ukraine.

  • Apr 4 2014: The USA IS representing general American public opinion. Stop spewing Putinist propaganda.
    • Apr 4 2014: Perhaps most Americans just beleive what they are told, without questioning any of it. For which your point may be true. But this really shines a light on the lack of american wisdom.
      If you can forget about the place you were born and see yourself as independent from any country would you still hold the same opinion?

      I beleive many Americans will rise each morning singing the national anthem, but there are many more far too wise to hold the immoral ideologies of the US government.

      This is not about one country fighting the other, this is about the manipulation of populations and world control
      • Apr 4 2014: Perhaps Russians believe what they are told, without questioning it. Spewing Putinist (fascist) propaganda serves nobody but the fascists.
        • Apr 4 2014: That's why everyone has got to think for themselves. Better 7 billion alternate opinions than a few shared opinions that give power to a select few that created the situation in the first place.

          The US and my own country, the UK are so far from civilised when it comes to foreign policy we are in no position to dictate how another westernised country behaves. Especially, when time and time again our countries have demonstrated a lack of concern for humanity, but a dire need to war for the sake of finite resources.

          And no offence, but I think a country that justifies the likes of guantamino bay, FEMA camps and police with a licence to shoot people in the back, is not exactly a country to be proud of.
          The USA could be seen as equally fascist, as similar to Russia anyone who apposes the status quo such as Bradley manning and Julian assange is done for. And politics is pretty much kept within a particular blood line and values hence why the previous presidents and the current one all seem to be spawn of the corrupt.
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    Apr 6 2014: Mint, how would you know what the general public opinion on this topic is ?
    "Additionally, there seems to be no evidence that Russia pose a further threat to Ukraine."
    This might be your opinion, however, having amassed 40K+ Russian troops at the border to Ukraine, I can understand that the Ukrainians feel some threat.
    • Apr 6 2014: I said there is no evidence Russia pose a further threat, which is a true statement, as there behaviour has not surpassed any milestones that could suggest otherwise, unlike the way the US is deploying troops. And the troops that have amassed at the border are not from russia, but from Crimea. This is a step any country would take if they feel their soverienty is at threat or if they feel extremists may try to infiltrate the country. If your going to question Crimea over troops at their own border you surely have to question the number of US troops that are positioned all over the place for reasons of intimidation. We should not be hypocritical about what we choose to acknowledge and what we choose to play a blind eye to. As for the representation of the public, a recent news poll suggests 65% of Americans are apposed to US intervention in the ukraine-russian conflict. Opposition in EU countries is likely to be even greater. On a personal note, no one I speak to seems to understand why the US is getting involved in European affairs and everyone I speak to supports Crimea's right to vote for independence. What has Russia really done wrong? Hiking gas prices (Which I don't agree with) is a political tactic which I am sure many countries would use against a country that's being persuaded to join a terrorist organisation such as NATO.
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        Apr 7 2014: Again, that's what you think. Ukrainians obviously feel differently.
        The troops that are amassed at the border are Russians. Russia doesn't even deny that but justifies them with conducting exercises. So, the question is, where are you getting your rather strange information from. ?
        As to the US being involved you might have heard that the EU and the US are on the same page when it comes to this issue. There are international treaties and laws that countries have to obey by.
        The global community seems to have the view that the annexation of the Crimean was not in accordance with international laws, but then again. So what makes you think that it was ?
        • Apr 7 2014: Every single point I have made is accurate at the point of making.

          What's the point in Russian troops in Crimea if its not for situations like this. Please note the Crimean's are in support of these troops and they do not see the troops as imposters.

          Obviously an aposing country (Ukraine) is going to think differently, but this does not make my points inaccurate.
          In a previous post I stated the involvement of both the EU and US as being politically wrong (in fact this is stated in the introduction to the debate, which I created). My point about the US is that the situation is a European issue not a US one.

          As for international treaties and laws, they do not actually exist any more than what flying pigs exist, they are made up as and when the united nations/NATO countries want to achieve a particular objective. And Russia is an independent country, so these international laws do not apply. What has happened is pretty much a civil dispute were the Crimean people have democraticaly decided on their soverinity.

          If these international laws do exist and are set in stone, please ask yourself how many of these laws has the US broken in the last 30 years or 15 years for that matter and then ask yourself if the US government have any right to involve themselves in other countries afairs.

          Please note, I do not agree with the existence of a military, let alone its use, so I am certainly not agreeing with Russia, but I am simply playing witness to and speaking of the complete hypocracy of the people who have meant to make just decisions not bigoted and solely politically covert decisions.
  • Apr 4 2014: Mint

    I have no defense, nor would I even try to defend Obama or his administration. His rhetoric and actions do not represent the US Constitution or his oath of office. The same can be said for the majority of Congress. For all intent and purpose America has died. This observation speaks to the political globalization of the planet, absent the individual, enter collectivist control. If anything I would would place the Obama Administration as complicit in the Russian take over of the Crimea. The sanctions against Russia are meaningless and pose to threat to Putin or the resurgence of a Soviet style empire.
    Obama will cozy up to anything or anybody that will further the agenda of a diminished America. We have 50% of the population on welfare, 12,000.000 unemployed, 50% of the population no longer pay Federal taxes. Our school system has fallen to a 3rd world status. Although we possess sufficient resources to be independent, Obama refuses
    such independence, maintaining dependence on foreign oil. Drugs, crime and government corruption rule the country.
    The litany goes on and for me it is as watching an eagle fall from the sky.
    In 1994 Great Britain, USA, Russia and the Ukraine signed a treaty called the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. This treaty, involved the then Senator Obama, who convinced the Ukraine to surrender to Russia it's nuclear arsenal for an exchange of the promise of border integrity. So much for integrity.
    Obama is not Hitler. Hitler told the world what his intentions were in Mein Kampf. Obama on the other hand waves an American flag and installs socialism as a new norm, vilifying any who disagree. It is the totalitarian way.
    I would classify Obama as a Chamberland and the world paid a big price for that. And it would appear more to the image of one Benedict Arnold.
    Please document the killing of 500,000 children by NATO.
    Please expound on the virtues of democracy.
    • Apr 4 2014: I agree with much of what you say and to be honest we will never know the full extent of the secret affairs between countries that have disagreements or pretend to have disagreements. And we will never know the full extent of government covert affairs no matter which government we are talking about. All we know for certain is that our governments/the third party organisations of the government are not working for the people.

      The vitues of democracy I think is another Ted conversation altogether and we all know that not one country in this world practice the correct virtues of democracy.

      It is estimated that 500000 children under 5 alone have died in Iraq as a result of UN sanctions. NATO and the UN are always in cooperation with one another and without each other the other would not have as much power or threat of power. This figure does not count the thousands of children deaths as a direct result of NATO dropping bombs on villages, etc....there are many sources that reference this.
      • Apr 4 2014: Mint

        Did some research, thinking and not trusting the government or the media, that I may be unaware of such atrocities. I have found since 2003 incidents or reports of civilian deaths, to include children. This would include the UN and human rights groups. I find nothing to indicate that 500,000 children have been killed, let alone 500,000 under the age of five..
        If you have this info please pass it on.
        That one child should die is a tragedy. I say that, as I have raised four sons and can only imagine the horror of loosing a child.
        I cannot justify anything that is being done in Afghanistan, as that war was designed only to drain the US of money and will, as too, Iraq. The plan has been successful.
        Suffice it to say that democracy, at its best, is an illusion of freedom and will always end in some form of dictatorial rule.
        • Apr 4 2014: My posts get deleted when I supply links, but please do a simple Google search. The half million children under 5 that have died is as a result of un sanctions creating mass malnutrition. Children to NATO and the in are just collateral damage. They don't care a toss who gets in the way of their ambitions. This is why we should be petitioning for our countries to get out of NATO and the in. They are no better than the worst terrorist organisations.
  • Apr 4 2014: Mint

    I would like to think that i am wrong, but Putin will move on the Eastern Ukraine, if not the whole country. Give or take 50,000 troops still mass at the border. He has spiked the cost of natural gas to the Ukraine by 26% in an effort to intimate and is demanding payment of $2.2 billion.
    You might check the history of a guy by the name of Nevelle Chamberland with regards the behavior of Adolph Hitler.
    • Apr 4 2014: I understand the point your making regards the hike in price of gas to the Ukraine, but not only is the EU and NATO trying to recruit the Ukraine as a means of intimidating Russia I personally think Barack Obama is looking more like Hitler than Putin especially since he is quite happy to cosy up to the Saudi Arabians, a completely undemocratic country that still chains up women in basements. The USA have no reason to sanction Russia for anything more than a personal dislike of the country, as they are quite happy to support and trade with countries that are far inferior to Russia ragards their human rights record. There is no political reasoning for the USA's position regards Russia and the EU are equally following hypocritical suit.


      Additionally, NATO is the biggest terrorist organisation this world has and it is used by the USA as a mode of intimidation to make countries comply with the US. Are you really surprised at Russia's reaction to a Ukraine that's considering joining such a rachid organisation. Remember it is not Russia that has killed thousands of innocent children, its the NATO countries.

      I wouldn't be surprised if the US deliberately started something with Russia, so the G8 becomes the G7. No veto to go into the likes of Syria to test their brand new drone toys.


      And as for the Russian military in Crimea, they have always been based in crimea and they are protecting the Crimean border from invasion. Are you telling me the US would not do the same given a similar situation. In fact I think you will find the US is using far worse intimidation methods regards the deployment of their military to borders and surrounding countries. Again hypocracy is the best word. I am surprised that people such as yourself do no not recognise these hypocracies. There is no room for patriotism.

      I don't agree with Russia's position completely, and I know Russia needs to improve, but the US are looking far worse a country at the moment.
  • Apr 8 2014: I think that Crimea does have the right to join Russia if they so desire, however, they should have brought the issue before their own government and asked Ukraine to have a referendum on the issue. The referendum should have been supervised by the UN to ensure that there was no ballot stuffing (do you honestly expect me to believe that over 90% of Crimeans supported joining Russia in the referendum?). Once they joined Russia (if a fair referendum even led to Crimea joining Russia, there's a fair chance it wouldn't have), the Russians should have kept their promises, which they already failed to do in the case of the Tartar people in Crimea.

    Right now, as it stands they annexed Crimea, drove out the Ukrainian government, held an unsupervised referendum that produced questionable (I'd say obviously fraudulent) results, and officially entered Crimea into Russia. That is not the behaviour of someone trying to defend the democratic rights of Crimeans, it is the actions of a warlord named Putin.
    • Apr 8 2014: I think Crimea has the right to join Russia or stay independent with or without the permission of Ukraine. Just like all countries in the UK and all states in the US have the right to separate from their host nation. Especially since Ukraine would not have granted permission for a referendum. Ukraine were trying to make the Russian language within crimea/ukraine illigitimit. Ukraine does not appear to be a reasonable country.

      We will never truly know what referendums are rigged and which are not. The US have even been known to change the outcome of elections through local councilors changing there constituents votes. Who knows whether the Scottish referendum will be rigged one way or the other. I do agree that rigging should not happen, but its a world issue not just a Crimean problem.

      You can call Putin a warlord, but no country has wared more with other countries unnecessarily than the US. So what right do the US have to dictate to a country that is Americas superior regards not dropping bombs on innocent peoples heads. I can't say the word hypocracy more regards this situation.

      It is not Russia that is using NATO as a terror monster against other nations.

      Please just admit that no matter how brutal Russia has been in the past, The US far surpasses it with their own behaviour
      • Apr 8 2014: "Just like all countries in the UK and all states in the US"

        You may not realize this but the last time there was an attempt by US states to secede from the Union it ended in a war, in which the secession was successfully stopped. It is considered treason to secede. Scotland has gone through proper channels to remove themselves from the UK, like Crimea should have.

        I see no evidence of attempt to make the Russian language illegitimate inside Ukraine, the Ukrainians removed a government that was trying to squash all ties with the European Union in favour of moving closer to Russia, that is completely different.

        I also see nothing to suggest that Ukraine would have outright rejected an appeal for independence from Crimea, after all before this crisis Crimea was almost completely autonomous anyways, so why not?

        We may never know what referendums are rigged, yes despite all evidence to the contrary hypothetically there could be widespread electoral fraud in the western world, however there is a difference between "could be rigged" and "obviously rigged". Crimea's referendum falls into the latter category.

        I don't know if you've noticed but during Obama's time in office the US has begun to withdraw from the world, with the only major intervention they've been involved with being the no-fly-zone over Libya during the revolution against a dictator who suppressed the people. The US has certainly gotten involved in wars unnecessarily, and certainly occasionally there are less-than-pure motives involved - however they've never invaded (this is an invasion, you can pretend it is the choice of the people all you want but it was an act of military aggression with the goal of occupying Crimea) for the sole purpose of gaining territory as the Russians did.

        Your "NATO as a terror monster" comment makes no sense so I'll ignore that.

        And I will not admit an untruth, the US is not brutal compared to Russia, the suggestion is laughable - Russia is a dictatorship under Putin.
        • Apr 9 2014: I think your incredibly naive to beleive the majority of US foreign policy is moral or in the interest of the international public. We all are too aware of the covert affairs of the US and other western countries.

          Every group of individuals who occupy a vast area should have a right to vote for their soverinity if they wish to do so. The country they are currently tied to should not interfere with that groups decisions. I did not say taking ownership of soverinity was legal, but I said it was morally acceptable.

          I am from Scotland and I am aware we went through the so called legal/acceptable channels to get a referendum, but these channels are not morally necessary, they are nothing more than a show of politeness from a country that has socially good ties with its neighbours. I am sure we wouldn't be so polite if the union was a reck like ukraine-crimea.

          Why don't you go and ask iraq or Afghan people if they feel western countries invaded their land and then try to make the same statement you made above.

          I am not sure were you get your information from, but Russia has not invaded Crimea or Ukraine, but the US is certainly trying to make the situation worse by making people such as yourself beleive this is what has happened.

          I know the American people are decent like the people of other western nations, but the US government is a political shambles.

          And it is quite obvious that NATO is the biggest terrorist organisation this world has. Don't forget it was the US government that funded, trained and created the Taliban and Alquiada. I am not naive about my own country and would never support actions of my country that we would later condemn in other countries, but this is what is happening.

          Do you really think the US having such close ties with Saudi Arabia makes the US look better than Russia, when Saudi Arabia still whips women in street and shackles them up indefinitely in basements. Oh wait I forgot, the US are practising the same thing- guantamino Bay.