David Flowers

CEO, True Cures Research Foundation, Inc

This conversation is closed.

How can commercial/mainstream science improve or offer human immunity without destroying the world economy?

To me it seems like healthcare is the glue that holds the world economy together which is likely why we never see any new preventions or cures. What can society do to pave the way for real health improvements though our existing immune capacities? We already have immune systems that are capable of offering full immunity free of charge so I ask how can society survive if we decided to use it instead of relying on ineffective western pharmaceutical medicine and or ineffective natural medicine?

  • Mar 23 2014: From my point of view, let's say David that you do know a way of re-empowering our immune systems to work effectively in healing ourselves without the need for any fancy drugs, herbs, etc (makes sense to me!). To pave the way for real health improvements society could:

    a) refrain from shooting down ideas before fully investigating and trying them out for ourselves. No one can possibly claim to know what is and what is not possible. History has shown us time and time again that what was once thought impossible can become possible. Limiting beliefs are a real stumbling block if we allow them to be- if we believe things are possible/not possible, we live and act accordingly. I think we've all be programmed to believe the things we do and we should constantly question them especially if they hold us back from what we want to achieve

    b) change starts with ourselves. We could do more to expose the shortcomings and moneymaking priorities behind mainstream accepted western pharmaceutical medicine and natural medicine. People have a choice, what will it take for people to start making new ones? If people no longer have to pay vast sums for healthcare throughout the course of their lives, that alone would surely be a huge motivator to investigate cheaper, more effective healing modalities.

    c) finding a top-down solution by getting the government and big pharma on side could be problematic. Imagine how you'd feel if you devoted x number of years of your life studying and practising pharmaceutical science only to find that it's all now obsolete. I think fear of becoming obsolete themselves could at best create reluctance to accept new solutions and at worst drive these people to want to discredit or even silence these ideas with extreme bias in a fight to maintain the status quo. But what about a down-up approach? I think It could work if enough people stop subscribing to all the western medical propaganda and start making new choices. So this leads back to points a and b.
  • thumb
    Mar 19 2014: it cannot in the current model of doing business.

    if your aim is to make money then that is your aim.

    if your aim is to help humanity, you will die a (happy) pauper or else you will be assassinated
  • Gail G3

    • +1
    Mar 30 2014: It is so sad that what you ask is an impossibility. Something as simple and free as meditation has the potential of preventing, treating, or curing almost all known physical and mental illnesses.

    In the USA, we have AFA/Obama Care. It requires us to purchase insurance from private for-profit institutions, where CEOs may make hundreds of millions of dollars a year, thus driving prices upwards. As research has shown that of those aged 65 and over (the most expensive), health care costs decrease by 85% for those who meditate regularly. (Similarly atypical responses in all other age groups appear) In spite of known decline in the cost of medical care and pharmaceuticals, have you heard a single political suggesting that we all begin meditating? No. why not? Because if we valued wellness as much as our government values illness, our economy would fail.

    The same can be said for war. Even the NIH agreed with the evidence provided by Maharishi University with respect to group meditation and decrease in violence during war or decrease in violence in trouble inner city neighborhood, and could not disagree with the conclusions offered in a study, do we ever hear a politician say that we should get together and meditate peace into a troubled area in the world? No. If we did manifest peace, the economy would fail.
  • Mar 19 2014: I didnt get what you are saying

    That pharmaceutical economy is good or bad?

    I dont know

    That pharmaceutical comphanys are bad?

    This one might be true

    That remedy are bad?

    This one i disagree, penicilin was a breakthrough that have saved and still saves lots of lives

    What is "existing immune capacities" that you refer of, is it human body immune system?
  • thumb
    Mar 19 2014: It's a nice idea, but I don't think its going to catch on by the mere fact that its not profitable. No profit means no backers to advocate your idea. A lot of ideas are like that, like fossil fuels are one of the most inefficient sources of energy we have and with our current technology, its not that hard to convert out of fossil fuel dependency. But then again, not much cash in there, or at least, much less than the currently titanic Oil giants. Education is the number one answer to help the economy i another idea. But many corrupt individuals even suppress education so that the gulf between the rich (them) and the poor (everyone else) stays the same. Greed is a "insert word" to progress I say.
  • thumb
    Mar 30 2014: Gail G3, yes meditation had the potential but not anymore. Meditation itself can only offer temporary peace of mind but meditation taught by a person totally immune to disease could inadvertently lead to immunity, mind you it has nothing to do with the meditation.

    As for health care, it's incorrect to call it "Obama Care" because we do not know if Obama had anything at all to do with it. A more logical explanation is it was a government agenda, every bit as much republican and democrat but our government knows they have to divide all the nasty agendas between the two parties otherwise people would cease to vote for the ONE party that has to do all the government dirty work. If people stop voting the government looses control of the people and they cannot have that.

    Regardless, no one has to pay for insurance if they do not need it, that's the beauty of AFA. Only people incapable of being healthy will require it. Anyone who can be healthy and immune to disease can skip AFA.

    They don't make that publically known because the last thing they want to see is people wanting to be healthy so they no longer need insurance.

    Again, regards to your last paragraph, meditation can offer temporary peace of mind which is why it is done a lot. 20 years ago it could have offered actual healing but peace of mind is all one can get from it today. Actual healing has been surgically removed from all natural or alternative forms of medicines or modalities. It was easy to do because no one knew the truth behind natural or alternative medicine modalities.

    I'm here to bring the truth back. If you want meditation to heal I can lead the way.
    • thumb
      Mar 31 2014: I've recently read about that experiement with a group of elderly people.

      They were immersed in the same environment they had in their teens. They listen to the music of that time and danced, had the same clothing/fashion and consumed the same sort of food they had in their teens.

      Interesting - their cells were tested Before that experiment and two months After. When the tests were compared they showed that almost 90% of elderly participants' cells became about 10 years younger after that experiment of living in their "teens" ...

      How much our very psychology controls our physical strength or weakness? Based on my own personal experience I trust 100%. Some individuals survive impossible physical conditions because of the strength of their minds. (However, I'm alive today also because of help of the powerful herbal treatment and that blessed diet. NO MEDICATIONS - this bewildered my doctors)
  • thumb
    Mar 28 2014: David, you have worked hard across many posts to communicate your position that people can learn to use their immune systems to be completely immune to disease.

    If you were able to convince people of this, which is naturally difficult without offering the evidence you have for taking this position, what would your next step be or what would you say theirs should be? ["Evidence" is not identical to credentials. Evidence is showing, not just telling, what you can do or proving you can do it]

    You have suggested to Esteban he would need to come see you in Idaho, but I am thinking you probably didn't come to TED conversations in the hope that readers here would accept your claim that you have a method you can only demonstrate in person and that on that basis they would book tickets to come see you in Idaho.

    Or is that what you were aiming for as next steps for those you want to help?
    • thumb
      Mar 28 2014: The only evidence of immunity is immunity. The only evidence of a cure is the cure itself. With that being said, isn't it ironic that people believe their is commercial medical evidence flowing like water? In the world of medicine and health care there is very little evidence but look at the respect it gets.

      I think Ted could be a very useful tool for introducing the idea and concept of human immunity. If it is not presented, it isn't an option. Censorship sees to it that immunity is not mentioned or proposed as a possibility on any health or science forum. Those forums have a different agenda. With that being said Ted could be responsible for making immunity common place.

      There are ungodly amounts of forums and blogs discussing this or that natural cure or this or that new drug treatment and none of them have any evidence either but the discussion goes on and on.

      Esteban and I are starting to get to the meat of the matter. There are not enough characters allowed for me to outline the process in one or two comments I prefer to add as I see the proceeding comments sinking in.

      I do need help with what explanation there is. I need to know when I loose people. I need to know what is more difficult for people to grasp. I need to know what is easy to grasp. Ultimately I would like to show Ted what immunity is about and for. No one knows immunity is possible, Ted can change that.

      On a side note, what is with Fransisco bombing the same post over and over. If he thinks I am out of line demanding donations for people to enter a section that gives out personal details of my trainees then he is mistaken. I do not feed people to the wolves as much as he would like to tear into them and myself. A 50 cent donation ensures we know who the person is wanting to contact trainees. I found that attacks are highly unlikely when a real person's reputation is on the line not just an anonymous handle.
      • thumb
        Mar 28 2014: I appreciate that you have not been linking your own site that requires payment. The way monitoring of our forum here works is that when you see someone linking a for pay site or "bombing the same post over and over," you need to flag it as spam or inappropriate.

        I am not a site moderator and do not personally remove comments. There are anonymous people who are moderators and review the posts that are flagged to decide whether the post is, indeed, out of order. Sometimes it takes a day or more for moderators to get through the flags.

        I was not criticizing you for not being able to display evidence, as you made it clear that you cannot show evidence here. I was asking only for your specific goals here, as I like to help people move in the direction of their goals if I can "unstick" things.

        I don't think anything you have said is at all hard to follow. Many people already believe that medical institutions do things like over-prescribe medications, and pretty much everyone on the forum has probably heard of multi-drug-resistant TB and so forth. Most people also are skeptical of natural medicines. So what you share in these areas are not new or unfamiliar ideas, I think, to readers here.

        I think, actually, that people know that we have immune systems that fight nasty germs for us. Almost everyone here, though, probably is grateful for vaccinations for polio, small pox, and so forth.

        You have not presented any material that is difficult to understand, in my opinion. That is different, though, from believing your claim that you can make people immune to all disease. If someone else came on the site and made that claim, I think you too would be skeptical. So you should understand other people's skepticism in relation to that specific claim.
        • thumb
          Mar 28 2014: The funny reality of it is, it is OK to point out the utter ineffectiveness of western medicine even for diseases like polio because as I pointed out to Rodrigo polio is alive and well, just with a different name. Again its ok to bash western medicine but ONLY as long as you support alternative medicine.

          It's OK to bash Alternative medicine medicine as long as you support western medicine.

          It is socially and economically unacceptable to expose them both as complete utter failures which they are. If people do not recognize the means the powers that be use to get failure to be accepted we cannot have any real mass success. I think you will agree that the notion of exposing both western and natural medicine as fraudulent failure is a very original idea. It might seem like just bashing away but to introduce real immunity to people they must perceive a need for it and anyone who supports western or natural medicine will not see a need for immunity. People who support either medicine do so because in their minds they are convinced that the one they support is effective and they have no evidence all to substantiate that conclusion, just a real low bar.

          I understand people's skepticism, even though you mentioned people know they have an immune system and that what I share might fall under their knowledge base but really it doesn't. Sure people remember they have an immune system because junior high told them. But that is it. That is why people are skeptical about my claim.

          Nothing in today educational system comes even close to broaching the possible effectiveness of the human immune system. It is and will always be completely ignored so that people will always remain skeptical of the idea that they could be immune to disease with surprising consistency.

          I'm well aware of the PR suicide of attacking both natural and western medicine but you can't have immunity unless you make way for it. "THEY" created western and natural to be the only choices.
        • thumb
          Mar 28 2014: I don't feel like you are criticizing me. I respect skepticism and you can see I have planted more seeds for skepticism than most. I pointed out that all medicine is a failure. I add two exceptions, trauma medicine and livestock medicine are both extremely effective and successful because that is were the money is.

          People cannot be immune to disease until they are skeptical enough to investigate the possibility because if they are not skeptical they will continue to support the never ending failure of medicine.
        • Mar 30 2014: David Flowers

           "..as I pointed out to Rodrigo polio is alive and well.." Didn't. You tried but failed.
  • thumb
    Mar 28 2014: Hello david. You are a specialist. What do you think about ablution can help our immunity system to more effective.? Really thanks to you I've learned many things from you. And thanks to TED makes that happened.
    • thumb
      Mar 28 2014: I would have to say that Ablution is more of a spiritual routine and an aid to immunity. Some scientist would argue that it is good to be somewhat dirty but what do scientist know? They can't cure or prevent disease so I take it all with grain of salt. I'm sure the act of Ablution can bring some peace of mind which can help reboot the immune system but a relaxing bath, shower or power nap can do the same thing. I'm glad you are finding my information useful. Cheers
  • thumb
    Mar 27 2014: There are many things we don't care about it but when we lose it we trying so hard to retrieve it. The earth made from equal push and pull function to keeping the balance of it.
    • thumb
      Mar 27 2014: I guess the thing with immunity is modern man has never had it to loose. Medicine is very old and started sabotaging us very early in our species. We have always ignored the capabilities of the human immune system in favor of medicine and now to discuss human immunity one will be considered a "quack".

      I don't know if the earth push or pull has anything to do with what is required to be immune or what we can do to make the population more suitable for allowing man to be immune as nature intends?

      This is a tough topic and a one of the kind topic I assure you. Welcome Bilal.
      • thumb
        Mar 28 2014: Immunity like our brain learning to correcting the error, that is right what you said and we need to having enough knowledge about it.

        Tell me something if I proofed to you what are you doing the used to action, it's wrong can you change it.
        Who told you the immunity system can be developed by some drugs or something else.

        The immunity system can't developed or even change by evolution but it can be developed only to acting person who knows his or her act is wrong or right.
        • thumb
          Mar 28 2014: I got confused on that comment Bilal, probably a language barrier.

          Our brain already knows how to correct any error, it simply needs to be reminded and that is only because we stopped using the brain to correct errors and started learning to live with suffering by using drugs to deaden the pain.

          If the body has a failure that is allowing for disease/pathogens to remain unchecked, yes it can be corrected as long as it is done before permanent damage is done. Death is usually eminent when permanent damage is done.

          Drugs will not boost the immune system, short of maybe steroids. Herbs, supplements or foods will not boost immunity either, though many will argue otherwise but none will have proper immunity while they argue. A person either uses their immune system to it's fullest or they don't. Drugs and herbs do not effect it.

          There is no need for evolution to change the immune system, it's already there. People just need to seek wisdom and truth instead of belief and modern commercial modern medical science that is easily proved to be pseudoscience. It's true, western medicine is more pseudoscience than any other form of science. How else could it fail 99.9% of the time? What else could be the reason for that kind of failure?
  • Mar 27 2014: David et all

    wanted to share a related conversation

  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: Fascinating Fritzie, the masses believe we do not need to perspire at the pits so they use antiperspirant and the ying yangs who do not use it, avoid it because they are afraid of the aluminum.

    Did the school you went to suggest their students use antiperspirants?
    • thumb
      Mar 26 2014: I am older than you imagine, I think. When I went to school, it would have been considered very strange for schools or teachers to advise on personal care products.
      • thumb
        Mar 26 2014: Now I understand. Thanks Fritzie. You lived back in the "good ol' days". When I first started working with people and their health the very senior people I worked with that were up in the late 80s or early 90 who still were strong, none of them used antiperspirants. They were never taught to use them. Now as far as I can tell schools teach the kids to use them even demand they use them. I don't judge them because all the kids are drinking energy drinks instead of water and therefore would smell like a dead cat if they allowed their lymphatic system to work as intended.
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: No Esteban, you do not recognize what I think. You can't. There are no facts that you can point out. That's why I have been discussing all of this with you. I'm trying to arm you with facts but first I must dismantle your beliefs.

    The Elder monk takes a tea kettle and begins to fill, and overflow, the younger monk’s tea cup, spilling tea on the table. The younger monk holds out his hand to signal to the elder to stop pouring.

    Younger: “It is full, great Rimpoche”

    Elder: “Like this cup you are full of opinions and speculations. To see the light of wisdom, you must first, empty your cup.”

    Esteban your cup has been overflowed all over our discussion, it's time you empty it. I can't help you otherwise. I don't need "love, hope or faith". I simply need to use what I have.

    I try to show you love but your cup is full of you idea of love. There is only ONE way to serve your fellow man and that is to do something for them. Paint their house, rake their lawn or give their sick child immunity through giving them wisdom. You comment went round and round because that is all you got. You need something tangible. That it the only difference between you and I, I have something tangible to offer and all you can offer is love, faith and belief.

    I'm here for you when your cup is empty.
    • Mar 26 2014: David,

      The optimists and the pessimists both are delusional debaters over a glass with water; neither one recognizing what any realist would assert: the glass is always full; half water half air! (yea I know that some out there will like to debate over the notion of the space being mostly empty --- the glass would be full of mostly emptiness ).

      Your request to empty the cup leads to failure… it sets me up and sends me off into a wild goose chase. 'Sure you get a little peace of mind, a warm fuzzy feeling for a while, …" thinking this or that until I come back…

      Please bear in mind that in response to your statement "This is what I think, you are …." I stated "I recognize that that is what you think".
      I was basically saying "Look that is what you think". Now whether what you/me/others think is going on actually corresponds to what be going on depends on the correspondence of what is thought and what is actually going on. Now if it is true that "There are no facts that you can point out". THEN if follows that "...trying to arm you with facts" be a futile exercise! Rather than seek to dismantle beliefs lets be aware of the beliefs each holds and cultivates. I said previously that to believe or not to believe isn't the question… the question is how to believe. In essence you propose that we should believe in disbelief You claim not to need love hope or faith. You also claim you simply need to use what you have. Without love hope or faith using truth can be quite dehumanizing.

      To see the light of wisdom one perceives it's reflection off the objects. The mountain spring wells up and overflows from the 'ground' and brings forth that which quenches and satisfies the body-mind-spirit. There are many ways one can serve and do stuff for others :-) Yes my comments goes round and round because at the center there be a tangible idea-belief-feelibg-understanding.

      I do enjoy these interactions and hope others find them enriching. BTW to improve one needs to integrate LFHT
      • thumb
        Mar 26 2014: I will try to give you some perspective this way., please carefully read your above comment.

        (Assuming you are reading.)

        Now, lets pretend you are the only person on earth. Just you, and you want to survive as long as you can because you are not miserable being alone and you want to make the best of it. Let's also say there is no modern convince and there are NO snakes talking to you. We won't call you Adam we will call you Joe.

        Your comment above would destroy you and take away all peace of mind. You would be going in circles chasing your own tail. You are a philosopher Joe. You haven't a productive thought running through your head. You cannot learn to change the oil in your car because you are too busy philosophizing.

        Joe/Esteban, your comments take you nowhere except for maybe the vision you have in your mind.

        Joe/Esteban, you will never have full immunity which is alright because that is not what you are here for. You are here to philosophy.

        Your comments have NO opportunity to make an action happen. Sure you sound like a genius, I give you that. However all geniuses struggle with mundane things like changing a tire or gaining immunity to disease. You would look at the flat tire and your mind would tear off in a whirl wind or useless philosophizing.

        Esteban, you are better suited for smoking a pipe and sitting around with other intellectuals talking about how things could be better IF.

        Now, how do we give you real purpose? Here I am not caring at all for talk because I can DO. I don't need to over analyze, I just need the opportunity to do what I can do, being that what I do can't be done by you or anyone else. If I die, what I can do goes with me.

        I don't even need to think, I just need to do. If twenty people lined up outside my door right now, I would send them all home in two weeks immune to all disease. Esteban, they don't line up because they too are all chasing their tails just like you.
        • Mar 26 2014: David,

          Have read and reread my comment… if there is something in particular in that comment you would like me to focus on please do say so.

          Evidently my comment above would not destroy me nor take away my peace of mind… in fact if you look at the part that states "...correspondence of what is thought and what is actually going on"… has quite practical application of appropriately assessing the situation… to that I would add what actually ought to be going on and what better be done to ensure what actually ought to be going on, be going on.

          In the scenario you put forth I would have the ability to learn about changing the oil in my car BUT there wouldn't be a need to learn to change the oil for multiple of reasons. One is that to change the oil of my car I would have to first build the car and everything required to do that! IN the process I would just know everything about the car. Remember that you stated "there is no modern convince and there are NO snakes talking".

          BTW note that my 'comments' can form a vision which may serve to transform the surrounding. Of course I would have to actually do stuff. I wonder if by struggle with mundane things like changing a tire you mean just the physical challenges of doing the task or imply that some 'intellectual geneses' haven't a clue nor the dexterity and skill to do the task. Just get the jack out, but make sure you have a working tire to use… nothing like discovering that the extra tire is flat too at the end of the exercise! Make sure to put on the hand brake and or ensure the car will not move.

          What is it that you can do? Say I was at your door right now… what would you do? I am curious why you state that it takes two weeks? IN my mind you have the opportunity right now while holding you need something else for that opportunity to happen… You are right what each can do and better do can only be done by each one!

          You stated: Now, How do we give you real purpose?
          Thats an interesting notion How to do that?
      • thumb
        Mar 26 2014: My focus is on doing. If you had a flat on the side of the road and you needed help I would stop and help you.

        Fortunately for you you do not have the disease fictionally known as "cancer" or the disease fictionally known as "herpes" because then you would have no choice but to accept my help if you wanted to be cured and immune to further "relapses" or other diseases.

        Talk is great when you are not wanting. I'm always wanting so talk is a waste of my time. I didn't philosophy a way to make people immune again or a way to cure fictional diseases like "cancer" and "herpes" I developed a way.

        Esteban, are you a MexiCAN or a Mexican't? I'm an AmeriCAN but I am an endangered species. The world is filled with CAN'Ts.

        You will continue to philosophy and that's alright just remember our discussion here because when you really need some help, we only need to get our hands dirty. Dirty hands cure and prevent diseases. Philosophy gives our illusion purpose, I get that. It's like rocking in a rocking chair, it's something to do but it won't get you anywhere.
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: http://www.ted.com/conversations/23590/how_do_we_control_the_world_po.html

    That's my new question. I think it is the horse, everything else is the cart. Where are you from Fritzie, the US? I don't think anyone in the world of science or medicine will give the impression that we need to perspire at the pits. I have been banned from science forums for suggesting it was important to perspire at the pits. They said there is no scientific proof that the juice from our pits is waste. That's the beauty of modern commercial science, they only say what they want to say and they let it be interpreted as fact because of their godly credentials.

    It's easy to ban me because everything I know to be true because of the consistent results contradicts all commercial modern science so all they have to do is say "BANNED" for contradicting science. :)

    I'm not against results I'm only against failure being touted as success. That's the industry of healthcare in a nutshell. "We can't cure you, but we can try to make you feel better while you die." That grinds my gear, only more so knowing that two weeks will cure any disease. I'm not a person on deaths bed can be revived, there is point of no return. But a person who is still strong can and should cure any disease. That puts the emphasis on what we would do with people living to 90 years old without spending a dime on medicine. Lets beat that horse on my new question. :)
    • thumb
      Mar 25 2014: I went to secondary school on the West Coast of the US. I doubt anyone actually fails to recognize that perspiration has a role in elimination of wastes. It does not have nearly as big a role in that as some other body functions.
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: Fritzie, I don't get caught up with trivial things like antibacterial soaps, mercury fillings, GMO foods or all the other boogeymans. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff and if antibacterial soaps are on sale, by all means buy it up. Besides it makes a fantastic dog wash, will kill every single flea it comes in contact with. :)

    The advice you summed up is offered on my FB page because it is the ONLY thing one can do to matter of fact aid the body in its immune task. It is not the aluminum in deodorant that makes deodorant and antiperspirants it is the act of stopping perspiration that is harmful and no one can dispute that which is why you will never see a study done on the effects of stopping perspiration.

    It is not convenient for me or for anyone to uproot for one or two weeks to spend that time restoring the immune functions back to factory default settings of our species. So I offer the next best thing, simple advice that will do more than any product, therapy, cleanse or drug. Any money spent on modalities, products, fad foods, therapy or cleanses is a colossal waste of money and precious time.

    The reason I despise all natural medicine is because today is all fails and it is very expensive. Now, with drugs there are some really great drugs that are very helpful so I have slightly less disdain for western drug medicine. I love Ibuprofen. There are drugs that will cure many diseases but THEY won't prescribe them in a manner that will cure disease, they specifically go out of their way to make sure they are not used to cure disease. Drugs are indiscriminate disease curers. It is next to impossible to cure one disease without curing a dozen other diseases. One cure would cripple the industry of drugs. It can't be done. It won't be done.

    I don't think I am getting frustrated at the lack of attention to my health strategies here. I might be but I don't think so. :) I can't put the cart before the horse. Belief frustrates me.
    • thumb
      Mar 25 2014: As I wrote, I think all that advice was good. Interestingly even the matter of its being harmful to stop perspiration is stuff I learned in secondary school in the last century.

      I am glad, actually, that you would not have people say no to all medicines.

      I am glad too you were not getting frustrated. Part of what I do here is to try to help people get some constructive discourse going in their areas of interest so they get value from their participation here.
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: I have been concerned that you may be getting frustrated at the lack of attention to your health strategies for supporting a body's natural immunity, so I went to your page to read the advice you give there, which I will summarize, as I read it. You suggest drinking plenty of water, reducing stress, getting 9 or 10 hours of sleep, stop using deodorant, stop ingesting caffeine in its various forms, limit sugars and carbohydrates, and stop any natural medicines with which one might be involved.

    All this seems like good sense advice.

    I am guessing you also discourage antibacterial soaps.
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: You are well on your way to writing a best seller book Esteban. I just commented addressing placebo while you were writing this, if it is not clear what I mean it is only because I am not saying what you want to hear. Your comments about about what you want to hear which is why you could write a best seller. Lots of best sellers out there but everything falls short of making a difference for the better of the human race.

    You said: "By changing the world economy from scarce resources model to a sustainable abundant model. Move from 'exploiting opportunities' to 'cultivating opportunities'…. and include expanding enriching interchanges of opportunities. Move from 'pay to use' to 'feedback value' coupled with 'feedforward value' and 'guided direct feed of present' value."

    It can't be done. It's not at all about feeding people, its about quality of life. It's about population control. I've started a new question that is still under review. Once it is up we can start to discuss how we can make way for human evolution back to being immune to disease as we are designed.

    Your comments are overly complicated because you are desperate for an idea that is more pleasant than what has to be done.

    When I refer to "everything outside of my comments and information as being wrong" is not all that far fetched. Again, immunity is as easy as driving a car so EVERYTHING in regards to health and healing is 100% wrong outside of trauma and trauma is no different than being a carpenter. You put people together when they are bashed apart.

    Outside of medicine almost everything is wrong because almost everything is opinion, belief and emotion.

    We will never ever come up with a better working plan if we insist on trying to BELIEVE one up. What can we do that will matter of fact make things better? NO ONE WANTS TO CONSIDER THE ANSWER, they want to conjure up pleasant ideas and beliefs that cannot come to fruition.
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: Placebo is taking advantage of BELIEF
    Immunity is taking advantage of WISDOM

    Placebo isn't consistent enough to even appreciate, it is relying on ignorance.
    Immunity is PERFECTLY consistent meaning works every time and relies on WISDOM.

    Placebo is orchestrated by belief hence the lack of any kind of useful consistency. Almost non-existent today because beliefs have been manipulated so much that no one can BELIEVE UP a respectable placebo to save themselves.

    Immunity is orchestrated by learning how to factually communicate with your own body. This goes over people's heads because they get to thinking woo woo, hamana hamana BS theoretical mumbo jumbo instead of the an actual example of such a task. YOU CANNOT DRIVE A CAR without sending the right communication from brain to body. Being immune to disease is as simply as driving a car.

    The only thing that makes immunity seem far fetched and hard to comprehend is BELIEF, OPINION and EMOTION. If you can drive a car or write your name you can easily be immune to all disease if you choose to dismiss all the garbage that is preventing you from being YOU.
    • Mar 25 2014: of course the key being in actually letting go of the garbage that is preventing one from being one...
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: This is what I think, you are desperately trying to put your BELIEFS to work. It will fail every time. Emotionally it will feel right and feel good but emotion is just an emotion.

    Emotion will not pound a nail in or turn a nut. It won't heal the sick and it won't bring about wisdom. Opinion is the only thing worse than belief. I stay away from it all but it is all you have. That's all anyone will give you.

    I'm the only person who preaches the value of dismissing belief, opinion, hearsay and emotion. If they were productive you would be productively immune. You would be on a plane right now to Idaho USA.

    I'm sorry to draw the line in the dirt but it truly is for your own good. I cannot save the world but I can save you. To do so means saving you from yourself. Contrary to what you BELIEVE you do not need opinion, emotion or belief. You don't. Its all you have right now which is why you are fighting to justify it.

    When an 8 year old child is dying of disease they do not need opinion, emotion or belief unless they are being left to die. They need to be cured and only fact/wisdom can cure them. Because there is no FACT or WISDOM in our society today, certainly not enough to carry on a conversation there is no cures or immunity to speak of.

    You need your belief, emotion and opinion to carry on your conversation but it won't pound in a nail and it won't cure a dying 8 year old. It is not only a waste of my time, it is a waste of your time.

    Belief, emotion and opinion are your enemy. Those 7 words are the simplest 7 words of wisdom. As soon as you accept it your comments will become refined and defined to equally simple. No more complications, no more convolution to justify desperation. You use your time wisely so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor. Belief, opinion and emotions do not produce fruit, only more belief, opinion and emotion. That's all I have to say about that.
    • Mar 25 2014: David,
      I recognize that that is what you think. It could be interesting to jointly explore why you choose to think it, though it may be even better to focus and explore on what individuals better do to activate immunological processes to cure/prevent diseases and cultivate health. In other words what should one do to facilitate the recovery and cure of themselves and others.

      Please consider that rather than 'fighting to justify' I am merely pointing out some facts. From where I stand and based on your statement you seem set on a course of denial and set on dismissing belief, opinion, hearsay, emotion and a couple of other things. Personally I consider that the only one who can actually save individuals is God. I do recognize that God often employs individuals. Getting into that may get us a bit off topic from the core issue here. I can carry on with a conversation that suspends certain beliefs emotions and options … or that consider these as this or that. Thing is that I consider it's better to include them than to deny them. For example some promote the notion of self-denial or espouse the ideal of egoless existence. I say individuals better learn to educate their egos to coexists with them. Some say we should seek to attain nothingness rather than seek to attain perfect understanding of everything.

      Why is an 8 year old child dying of disease ? for that matter why is it that everyone alive in creation is presently under a death grip ? or the fact of entropic degradation? Maybe we better focus to the simplest of concept related to wisdom … love hope faith truth… of course love states it all if one understand it...
  • thumb
    Mar 25 2014: Esteban, there are hundreds of EFT type modalities and zynergy guru BELIEF and EMOTION driven hamana hamana band wagons out there. They all have ONE goal, make people feel better about the current situation we live in while preparing us to be able to stand more crap.

    They are not about "picking a better solution", they are about making the mess tolerable. They are part of the problem. Real truth makes all the hamana hamana guru spiritual mumbo jumbo and of course medicine obsolete.

    EFT and everything like it, all the self help books and books based on EGO and "The Secret" are crippling the potential "go-getters".

    You can learn all you want from EFT and all the other examples you can list but they will not change a thing, that is why they are so popular. They tell people what people want to hear and NOTHING changes.

    They put a person on the look out for change but at the same time it makes a person incapable of change. Sure you get a little peace of mind, a warm fuzzy feeling for a while, that's the popular part but in the end it is all about making one feel better in this destructive time.

    You CANNOT have strong BELIEFS and wisdom at the same time. You and I have a different opinion of what WISDOM is. That's another obstacle between us. If you have wisdom you have immunity to disease. It's that simple. I know it sounds arrogant being that you know I profess to have full immunity but it is true nonetheless.

    It should be indisputable common sense. Wisdom leads to immunity. Immunity makes EFT and BELIEF obsolete.

    We don't have to spend our days promoting love, charity, peace if you choose wisdom because love, charity and peace will occur naturally when we are being human for the first time.

    Emotions as well as belief is our enemy. They are what make us easily manipulated. Everything you believe is your undoing and the undoing of man in general. You disagree because you believe you are right. Immunity proves a person right.
    • Mar 25 2014: David,

      Emotion, belief, thought can be manipulated to become our enemy or our friend! I prefer to have them as helpful beneficiary friends. BTW I find that EFT in essence is about actually recognizing what be, recognizing the possibilities and consciously choosing to picking the better way. Yea I know many highjack the band wagons ought there to sell feel good movements rather than get on the right track. I agree that "Real truth makes all the hamana hamana guru spiritual mumbo jumbo and of course 'medicine' obsolete".

      I also recognize that many of the self help books and books based on EGO and "The Secret" are rather crippling… unless one knows how to properly interpret them… of course those who do know how to properly interpret them… have no need of them :-)

      Maybe "You CANNOT have strong BELIEFS and wisdom at the same time"…
      and maybe some CAN have strong BELIEFS and wisdom at the same time!

      This time can be constructive or destructive depending on what individuals choose to cultivate.

      Lets clarify each ones opinion of what WISDOM implies.
      Bluntly put I consider wisdom as knowing, understanding and doing what ought to be done as it ought to be done when it ought to be done (the act of doing includes both the act of doing something and doing nothing. similarly the knowing and understanding includes the tacit, the explicit and the intuitive ways).

      BTW our differences of opinion can be obstacles between us or be bridges between us. I agree Wisdom leads to immunity, so does truth, love, understanding, belief and a bunch of other things… Yea it should be indisputable common sense… though presently Common Sense isn't Common Knowledge.

      Maybe we disagree because I choose and seek agreements :-) based both individual beliefs and individual truths and individual feelings and a bit more including shared notions where as you choose something else. Why does each seek and cultivate to choose what they choose?
  • Mar 25 2014: David,

    If you can edit the time allotted to this conversation do so it expires in about one day…
  • thumb
    Mar 24 2014: Allan, thanks for the comment. Points A and B are good points.

    Personal change is the key. It will not change the world but it will change an individual's world. One realization that recently came to me is that individuals have real control over ONE thing and one thing only, their immune system and no one knows it. I can't change politics no vote can. I can't control the weather. I can't make my business grow and prosper because there are too many elements out of my control but I do have complete control over my immune system. Obtaining immunity is not glamorous. It's matter of fact.

    We just hit a stumbling block on http://www.ted.com/conversations/23164/what_necessity_desire_or_drea.html

    I was almost convinced that there was a place for "belief" and then a comment was made about EFT.

    Today people "BELIEVE" that natural medicine is going to make a breakthrough. They do not realize that Natural Medicine was at it's peak about 30 years ago. Most are too young to be a witness to effective natural medicine. Back when natural medicine was effective it was NOT popular. Most did not even know it existed. As soon as it started becoming popular and people were being cured of so called "incurable" diseases the medical industry stepped in and created the "natural medicine" we pay for today.

    Billions of dollars are spent on today's natural medicine and it is even more fraudulent than western drug medicine. EFT being the most fraudulent of all.

    The TRUTH about immunity cannot compete with the glamor of EFT. EFT relies on 100% pseudoscience as does the entire field or pharmaceutical medicine.

    I know it sounds arrogant but my information on health and healing is the only true information available to man today. Your A and B points are critical. If I cannot get people to support real science, real healing and real truth then I can only help myself. If people choose EFT instead of truth, I will end up taking the truth to my grave.
    • Mar 25 2014: David,

      Observe your bias towards how the example reaffirmed what you believe about the situation rather than enable you to better understand the situation… There is a place for 'belief' as well as wisdom and understanding and truth and love and hope and expectations and a bunch of other stuff… as I told you in another example I used the EFT example because I like how it recognized what be going on, the possibilities and takes charge of picking a better solution… again I invite you to speck openly and directly about the truth… most likely few here will accept the truth of the matter for the truth of the matter. Though some who are ready and willing may listen and learn.
  • thumb
    Mar 20 2014: Raymond, some of what you said has merit but you must concede that the data you shared comes for an INDUSTRY not a science. There is NO data published outside of my own work that can help anyone truly understand the potential of the human immune system. You spoke of us potentially evolving to have better immunity because because that is INDUSTRY propaganda. In reality humans are devolving and medicine/the industry is causing it.

    Society holds it's hands out for technology and INDUSTRY breakthrough that will never happen and that is the reason we become more and more fragile. We are putting our eggs in a basket proven to fail.

    If the industry of medicine put ONE penny of every dollar they have to spend on researching human immunity you would have immunity right now. Yes stress, lack of sleep, fear, poor water, too little water will always effect immunity but that doesn't mean immunity cannot be corrected as soon as the pressure is over.

    You guys are assuming I am just speaking theoretically but I am not. I am speaking from years and years of research and work.

    You are right, everyone needs to be taught the truth but the truth cannot be taught until people can accept being wrong and so mislead. PRIDE is more deadly than fear and pathogens.

    Sure we can see what we refer to as bacteria attacking cells but what you cannot see is priceless. There is NO science researching what you cannot see. There is NO interest in what you cannot see.

    If people on Ted cannot fathom the possibilities then who can?

    Let me be the first to say that PLACEBO is almost non-existent today. Temporary relief is all one can hope for and the INDUSTRY of medicine saw to that. 30 years ago placebo was extremely effective at curing diseases that medicine could not and that was a serious threat to the INDUSTRY. It was easy for the INDUSTRY of medicine to work around EFFECTIVE placebo. They simply educated it out of existence short from temp relief.
    • Mar 25 2014: David,

      the truth can be taught even when people cannot accept being wrong and so mislead… eventually them people recognize the truth and then have to choose it to accept what be or reject it… of course focusing on accepting what be may distract from focusing on doing what ought to be done as it ought to be done when it ought to be done.

      Just noticed something that may be quite relevant. The belief in the 'medicine' to cure activates the immunological processes to cure. The placebo was designed to eliminate the effects of 'beliefs in the medicine to cure' as a way to determine how effective the medicine truly was. Thing is that this effect of belief in the medicine was kind of completely discounted out, the baby was thrown out to clean the water rather than kept and cared for appropriately. In other domains similar 'scientific' discounting took place; for example- The shaman rain dance- Even you in this conversation have cultivated such disempowering notion with your claim: "I can't control the weather". Just as one can control the immunological processes to cure if one knows how, one can control other process if one knows how. Maybe a better description on what actually takes place involves 'influences' rather than 'controls'. This disempowerment of beliefs influences extends to many domains and notions. When someone believes that their beliefs have no effect on what happens... guess what kind of effect their beliefs are gone have on what happens? Many have been seduced into eating from the fruit of knowledge of good and evil and exist within a delusional deception of requiring to know what isn't rather than just recognizing what be. The truth enables one to see what be and do a bunch of stuff. I trust you truly understand what I am pointing at.

      Beware of invoking the notion of 'placebo' for the definition of that word be: a substance that has no therapeutic effect, used as a control in testing new drugs. a measure designed merely to calm or please someone.
      • thumb
        Mar 25 2014: Esteban, you cannot understand the "notion of 'placebo'" because you can only rely on Google for your information. Me I once used placebo to cure incurable diseases back when natural medicine practitioners commonly used placebos to cure incurable diseases. You are not in a place to discuss placebo yet until you have first hand experience with it. I have 20+ years in researching and developing placebo and the EFFECT without using placebo. I know all about double and triple blind studies for drug testing where you cannot know about them at all. You can Google but that info is a BELIEF they want you to know, it has little to do with what there is to really know.

        You may be too young to know what PLACEBO use to be. What it is today is not what it was before. Words and belief make up your current understanding of it. If you cannot be immune to disease you have no real understanding.

        Esteban, you are looking for a truth. You clearly want to be taught but you have a romantic notion as to what the lesson should or will be. Everything you believe in now is wrong, if it were right you would have immunity to disease already. You cannot have belief and wisdom too. You cannot teach yourself to be immune to disease under your current system of belief. I can do the work for you and get you to the point of being immune but you will not be able to control your immune system without another.

        This is tough love Esteban. It's matter of fact love. Everything you have access to outside of my comments and my information is part of the problem not the solution. IF ANY OF IT WAS TRUE, ANY THING YOU BELIEVED IN WAS TRUE, YOU WOULD HAVE IMMUNITY ALREADY.

        It's just that simple because IMMUNITY is suppose to be natural involuntary work done without your conscious input. It will be again as soon as the world can dismiss all the current data and status-quo because it is all belief. Get immunity then decide what is and what isn't.
        • Mar 25 2014: David,

          Evidently from your claims you do not recognize that I do rely on another for everything. I agree with what you said "you will not be able to control your immune system without another". In fact it may well be that without 'the other' individuals existence's wouldn't even be a possible possibility let alone a reality. Of course once an additional individual exists with the ability to choose and create options and realities things can get really interesting...

          Let me ask you what you mean by 'placebo'.

          I hold you realize that it's practically impossible to conduct research without the effects of beliefs influencing what takes place, especially when what individuals believe does influence what takes place!

          BTW the statement "Everything you have access to outside of my comments and my information is part of the problem not the solution" seems to imply a bunch of stuff. For now I will just basically leave it at that. I envision only one possibility for what you said to be valid, and consider that even if that was the case it would still be possible to get to the truth of the matter.

          Maybe the individual lack of immunity to diseases right now stems from what some choose to 'do' (and/or not do) coupled with a couple of other 'matters' that still need to be appropriately 'dealt' with. Maybe part of the agreements to be here and now involve accepting certain limitations and the real challenge involves transcending such limitations while both remaining in a limited space-time and being outside of it.

          You asked: "How can commercial/mainstream science improve or offer human immunity without destroying the world economy"?

          By changing the world economy from scarce resources model to a sustainable abundant model. Move from 'exploiting opportunities' to 'cultivating opportunities'…. and include expanding enriching interchanges of opportunities. Move from 'pay to use' to 'feedback value' coupled with 'feedforward value' and 'guided direct feed of present' value.
  • thumb
    Mar 20 2014: Bryan you are here to fight not to learn. Your proud and angry and justifiably so because you have been mislead to believe in an industry that proves to be a complete utter failure.

    A "diagnoses" is an IDEA better known as an "OPINION" is was a doctor's opinion that you had Anthrax and it is your opinion that the drug cleared it up. If you were for wisdom you would realize that when I use the term "sugar pill" I am speaking of placebo, and when I speak of placebo I am speaking of the 'human immune system'.

    The difference between you and I Bryan is I pursued the logic and real science behind the reason why people get better sometimes through believing in a PLACEBO/sugar pill.

    You just called me "narrow-minded" because your pride is bruised. The only reason you fail to generate your own immune responses at will is because you are the one who is narrow minded. You choose to not use your capacity for higher learning to understand the power of placebo. Placebo in your mind is about BELIEF in my mind it is about control. When you have control over your mind and immune system you no longer require and placebo ceases to exist because it becomes science, real science.

    You have no way of knowing if you had Anthrax, you do not know if Anthrax is biological or chemical, you only know you were suffering and the doctor believed it MIGHT be Anthrax and they prescribed you a drug that you likely believed in and consequently you got better. Was it the drug or was it your own immune system? You will never know. If you don't check your pride you will for ever be reliant on drugs and placebo and you will never know how to use science to truly prevent and cure disease.

    I started this question to see if anyone had an idea how we as a society could implement REAL science, real prevention and real cures into today's economy and everyone says NO it can't be done. You are the reason they say that. You are too proud to look outside your education as such the problem.
  • Mar 20 2014: As I like to tell people: Significance is just a crude estimation of the inverse of sample size. Make a study big enough, and any difference, no matter how tiny, will be as statistically significant as you like. I happen to be a biologist. As for the sugar pill allegedly being the most effective medicine on the market--you're a liar.

    Sugar pills would not have cured my anthrax. Antibiotics cured my anthrax.
    • thumb
      Mar 20 2014: Little harsh their Brian, what your idea of Anthrax is and what it is will likely be two different things. You have been trained to believe what you believe about Anthrax and you do not see the pig picture. Anthrax is a political issue as much as biological. FEAR is the main agenda for the use of Anthrax and once fear is established immunity suffers.

      As a modern biologist you can have no idea of how or why a sugar pill can or did cure incurable diseases. You don't even know they cured disease because you are trained to fail and not to know. It's as simple as that.

      You have not been trained to make great discoveries you were trained to be an asset to the medical industry. If you were a real biologist you would know why sugar pills have cured more diseases than any other product. I'm sure this offends you greatly but the facts are the list of diseases is growing and the list of preventable or curable diseases is shrinking.

      I never said sugar pills cures Anthrax and your ugliness is a result of your own shortcomings. In regards to Anthrax, being that today's science is an utter failure I cannot know if Anthrax is biological or just chemical. Anthrax is what the POWERS THAT BE want it to be, and most of all THEY want it to be a scary threat. If it is truly a biological threat then the human immune system can cure it and if the human immune system can cure it then the sugar pill would be one of the tools that could engage the immune response. I know this doesn't make sense to you, I know it offends you but lets face it, you can't cure or prevent anything when you should be able to cure and prevent everything.

      It's not your fault but if you keep getting ugly with me, then it becomes your fault because you are looking wisdom in the face and refusing it.

      Don't ask me to respect your training or your credentials because unless you can prevent & cure diseases said to be incurable you training and credentials are useless except for economy stimulus.
      • Mar 20 2014: My "idea" of anthrax was an actual diagnosis. I had anthrax. For a while, I worked at a facility that used to house sheep. I got a prescription to clear it up. It wasn't respiratory anthrax, and I am very happy about that.

        I realize that you are nothing but a blowhard. Don't ask me to respect your posturing and bloviation unless you can end all economic injustice. Sugar pills cure nothing. However, the placebo effect can be very powerful because the nervous system is connected to the immune system and endocrine system. People who believe they will get better have a much higher chance of getting better. It's real, it's biological in nature.

        However, you're just another narrow-minded dogmatic cultist, that much is obvious.
      • Mar 20 2014: We can see bacteria in microscope that causes certain disease
        We can put bacteria in people and people get the disease

        How can that be fake? they cant put a video on every microscope

        Our body imunne system dont cure everything

        I agree that fear afects imunne responses

        fear is in some agenda might be true, or might be false
        it is pure speculation

        Even a disease that the body can cure can kill you
        not only because your imunne response is low
        but because it may get you weak, and sometimes you need real medicine to "hold on" until your imunne system can win

        And our body imunnity system is not fit to fight all the disease
        our imunnity system had evolve to what it is today
        and maybe some day our body would be able to fight all disease
        Even so you system need to be "initiated" to fight the disease
        So we are not realy "imunne", nor even everybody is equally "imunne"

        "Anthrax is what the POWERS THAT BE want it to be"

        This part may hold for somethings
        But for some others it would need a "conspiracy" as big as the lie
        If you are going to lie about something hard to proff, is easyer then lie about something obivious

        In cases where you can see bacterias in a microscope, would be a pretty hard lie, and would need a pretty big conspiracy

        I mean this conpiracy dont hold, to sustain it, you need to keep adding assumptions everytime bigger

        You would need to teach everyone wrong, and no one notice
        No one dicovery it is not true
        supress all the "true knowlege"

        The sugar pill can only give the placebo effect
        it can "cure" (at least help)
        but much more people would die if everybody were treated only with placebos

        And dont forget that people with strong imunnity and happy, without fear, can get sick too, and die too
        Its not everything up to our imunny system

        We need real medicine even if the pharmaceutical comphans were bad and dont really cooperate
        • thumb
          Mar 21 2014: Raymond, I put some more thought into your comment. You mentioned "conspiracy" and hard to cover up, but it isn't conspiracy or hard to cover up. It's just WRONG.

          You mentioned, "we can see bacteria". Maybe we can, maybe what freshman in college are looking at is bacteria but maybe it is not. Maybe it is fungus, viral or just some other active particle. You do not know, the professor teaching does not know. You guys only know what you were told and what you were told is BASED almost 100% on speculation and opinion.

          How can speculation and opinion be a conspiracy? I WANT TO KNOW.

          There IS A REASON medicine FAILS almost 100% of the time all the time and are you TOO proud to figure out why? I'm not yelling at you or anyone just emphasizing some key facts.

          The failure is either a result of one or two or both. Either the medical industry is based on a corrupt science meaning not real science at all so that it can be easily manipulated for profit and population control and or two the people responsibility for today's health care are as ignorant and weak minded as they come.

          Those are the only two possible reason's for today's chronic failure in the medical industry. Either they can but wont, or they just plain can't meaning they are either corrupted or just plain stupid.

          Some here said they were diagnosed with Anthrax claiming they had first hand knowledge of Anthrax, WRONG, he has first hand knowledge of what it is like to be told he has Anthrax. For example, it is believed that herpes is caused by a virus. You believe it is Raymond and so does everyone else reading this because you all have been taught to view medical speculation and guesses as FACT just as Bryan has. In reality there is no PROOF and only extremely flimsy evidence that "connects" herpes to any supposed "virus".

          I can explain why I say there is no real evidence that herpes is a virus but that would stop the discussion. I would rather someone try to explain why herpes is a virus.
        • thumb
          Mar 21 2014: I would like to add one more thing, NO ONE questions medicine or science today. I'm the only one who will break it down and expose it all for being WRONG. That's why no one knows they can be immune to disease and that there is no real science in today's commercial science.

          I'm the only one, and I question medicine and commercial science with my own personal integrity that leaves my information indisputable. When I say there is not proof that herpes is a virus there is no proof not even any reasonable evidence for suspicion. That is why the medical industry can manipulate us any way they want. It isn't so much the doctors and scientist but the people teaching them to fail that are guilty and worthy of tar and feathers but that will not happen if people do not start thinking for the first time in their lives.
      • Mar 21 2014: people are question you BECAUSE they ARE thinking

        The same way we question medical discoverys

        And there is not only commercial science

        The science make hipothesys to explain the world and make a model of this hipothesys
        We measure and sense the world and make annotations based on this
        and when something doesnt fit in the model we generate another hipothesys and model
        And every annotations (include the alread existent) must fit the model
        If we cant proof or disproof something because there cant be no annotation about it
        we take as much hipothesys as we can and choose one to be the current "acepted" without discarting anyother

        And every annotation are questioned and reviewed multiple times, even particle aceleration annotaion must be confirmed by others teams in other acelerators

        Now you want we just to throw away all the annotations, hipothesys and models that fits perfectly togheter to just believe in you without any proof

        You yourself had to "see" to believe, so why are you telling us we are wrong and not thinking just because we wanna "see" the proof?

        And the proof that virus does exists is because real medicine can treat people with it, and even was able to eradicate so many grave disease on the past (inclusive viruses ones)

        Medicine is not my field, so i leave the further proof that a viruses exist to someone who does have those data.

        But I thrust medical the same way that i have a speciality, and in my speciality i know what i am doing, and it is impossible to everybody known everything about everything, we have to thrust each other

        I think that if you wanna convince us you will have to show us some proofs also, unless you wanna the non medical here to study the same X years you did to discovery that virus does or does not exists
        • thumb
          Mar 21 2014: Never throw away a working model. HYPOTHESIS that's the best medicine can do.

          You don't want to throw away the current model because it is the ONLY model "THEY" offer you and that MODEL fails 99.9% of the time so in any other industry the MODEL would be thrown away because it does not work. You support a model that is PROVEN to fail, how is that science?

          No there is only commercial science today. There is no private science other than myself because there is no money in private science, if the so called "discoveries" cannot be sold to the highest bidder than there is no interest in producing the "discovery". No one is paying for discoveries that eliminate or threaten today's industry of medicine or health care as the others have pointed out here. Because there is no market for success in health care there is only highly profitable failure.

          HYPOTHESIS, know it, understand it. It is only hypothesized that we have cured viral diseases, for all anyone knows small pox could have been something other than a virus. It may not even have been cured, it could have just been rebranded with several new names for several new billion dollar industries.

          The point to take from this is HYPOTHESIS= FAILURE. You think Hypothesis is the only possible model but Hypothesis always leads to failure. FACT leads to cures and eradication of disease. NO ONE demands FACT, they all settle for the hypothesis model.

          Because people BELIEVE hypothesis is proof and evidence they will never have a clue as to what real proof and real evidence is.

          You clearly cherish hypothesis as does everyone else which is why there will never be improved health until people demand better.

          You cannot understand the information I have to share if you cherish hypothesis instead of results. Hypothesis = FAILURE fact = results. You want PROOF you will have to learn the difference between hypothesis, failure and fact before you can even know what PROOF is. Your loyalty to failure is your undoing.
  • Mar 20 2014: Science does nothing to an economy. By the time it gets to that point, it is entirely out of the hands of scientists. Doesn't stop people from blaming scientists for everything, though.

    Oppenheimer's only "crime" was being too virtuous. He really did believe that nobody would build military hydrogen bombs. He really did believe that the concept would only be used to obtain further knowledge toward something like fusion power. He was appalled when NON-SCIENTISTS were not as moral as he was. To make matters worse, the politicians got a free pass and Oppenheimer got blamed for the bomb, when his only "crime" was to not realize that he was far more virtuous and clean than the rest of the world.
    • thumb
      Mar 20 2014: Bryan it's worse than you think. Our educational system trains scientist and biologist to fail so it is the scientist that are the problem but you are right they are not to blame. They are trained to chase a ghost, a figment of someone's brilliant economic mind.

      By the time a kid graduates from Duke, he or she has a platform already implanted in them about what they are studying and researching and quite frankly that data is probably very close to be 100% false.

      The great minds who discovered penicillin and other REAL useable breakthroughs started from scratch in a sense. They were not trained to fail. Now that all science is commercial there is no science in regards to health and healing. There isn't a modern "study" one that will hold up to my scrutiny in court. There are no medical experts, if there were we would be seeing cures and preventions.

      I dedicated over 20 years studying the human immune system and learning the tricks behind the sugar pill and why the sugar pill has always been the most effective medicine on the market. I know why people have been cured of countless incurable diseases back in the day with nothing more than a sugar pill. It was clearly a waste of time because until Fox or CNN tells consumers it is alright to be healthy using their own immune system, human immunity as nature intended will be socially unacceptable.

      Without private science and a way to incorporate human immunity into today's society there will be no health improvements offered mainstream. With today's educational system, consumers cannot even begin to fathom their own natural ability to be healthy. They all BELIEVE they need to eat a certain food in a certain diet, avoid all the "deadly" GMO and commercial foods and they believe they have to wait for the perfect drug or natural product and nothing could be further from the truth. They simply need wisdom and Duke and U of F do not teach wisdom.
  • thumb
    Mar 19 2014: I guess it all depends on what is socially acceptable, pharmaceuticals seems to be the glue to our economy so in that sense it is glorious. However we can't have our cake and eat it, if we elect to stimulate the economy we have no choice but to disregard the "human immune system" and pretend it does not exist.

    Sure penicilin was a breakthrough LONG LONG ago but had people had the savvy to understand the "human immune system" they could have gotten by without it.

    There is no vested interest in what the "human immune system" can do so know one but a few know what it is capable of. If we do not find a way to afford to be healthy through our immune systems we will continue to become more and more fragile as well as ignorant of our own power to be immune to disease. I think I agree with the other comments, there may be no place for improved health.
  • thumb
    Mar 19 2014: Are there any suggestions as to what changes we can make as a society to make improved health a social goal. It is depressing to see consumers under the illusion that improved health care is a goal of today's medical industry when nothing could be further from the truth. It rubs me the wrong way seeing people trash talking western pharmaceutical medicine only to support an even more fraudulent ineffective medicine such as "natural" medicine. I mean, failure is failure and if a cure, prevention or immunity isn't the result it seems like failure to me.

    Do we have to change our economic structure to do good works or to have a place for good works? Is that it? Is it just capitalism that demands medical failure?

    I recognize real value in trauma medicine as well as Livestock medicine. I understand the role disease plays in population control. With today's current popular belief in regards to health care and disease a good old fashion biological attack will always be a means to control population in population dense areas.