Poch Peralta

Freelance Writer / Blogger,

This conversation is closed.

Is perception more important than reality?

'Why is managing perception important? Because perception is often more important than reality. And in fact, your reality will not be a happy one if you’re not managing perception.

'So the point is that perception is something you have to constantly mange. Whose perception? Everyone’s—the C-level executives, the employees, the customer’s customer, and most important, your own.

'Therefore, ask yourself, “How do I perceive myself?” Do you perceive yourself as trying to keep up? Trying to protect and defend? Trying to integrate the new?...'
http://bigthink.com/flash-foresight/what-should-todays-executives-and-managers-really-be-managing

Closing Statement from Poch Peralta

Closing Statement
I think the question was effectively answered by both group of thought.
I choose Reality over Perception. Perceptions can change. As Bob said: 'We can manipulate our perceptions.' Reality seen from a sane mind is always true.
Thank you very much to all. You made this convo enlightening and useful.

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    Feb 14 2014: Hello Poch,
    A number of points spring to mind ...

    1). Reality is what ultimately is; our perception of that reality, is, well, just our particular perception of it - which varies hugely from individual to individual;

    2). We can allow our perception to be "corrected" so it gradually becomes more and more in line with that ultimate reality. In the end perception fizzles out, and we dwell in reality, in knowledge, in certainty;

    3). Meanwhile you are right in that it is important to be aware that our perception is merely a (our individual) perception, and this allows us to actively choose to view life's circumstances through differing perceptions (ie: manage our perceptions - classic example is "do I perceive XYZ as a problem or an opportunity?");

    4). From my study of management literature of "organisational culture" in the 1980s, it was suggested (even back then!) that managers had the role of being "purveyors of meaning", of managing others' perceptions which was achieved not just by logical argument, but more powerfully via organisational symbols and rituals;

    5). This shows that we can manipulate perception into being a temporary reality in order to get a particular job done (useful in business; also used by televangelists);

    6). Being fully aware that (my) perception is just a perception is helpful in being compassionate - accepting without judgement both myself and others as we/they currently are - we live in a world of ever-changing perceptions that seems our reality today, but will maybe be different tomorrow;

    7). That is why some grasp at religious dogma because handling ever-changing perceptions is challenging to our identity;

    8). But it is a challenge we cannot escape, so therefore it is better (and we'll be happier) to go with it and step into the flow of life whilst on this dualistic planet;

    9). Knowing that one day we'll see things (reality) as it really is, beyond mere perception.....

    ... all of which means, I think, I agree with you.
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      Feb 14 2014: I doubt if there will be a better feedback than that Joshua. Your organized reply is probably the result of your study of management literature of "organisational culture"?

      'Being fully aware that (my) perception is just a perception is helpful in being compassionate...'
      Recently, I just had an insight on the perception of 'insult':
      The worst insult you can incur to a soldier is to rob his weapon (gun,sword, etc...). Not only the robber renders him defenseless but worse, he proves that he can kill the weapon owner anytime. I have an acquaintance whose gun was robbed. It was discovered later that the robber was his trusted personal assistant. Imagine if the gun owner has the mentality of a soldier. It wouldn't be surprising if he kills the robber. But owner I know doesn't have that mentality. He just ordered his assistant to leave---which seems to be the wise move. If he killed his assistant, he would just had created another problem.

      Now I see the futility of being over-sensitive and always taking offense. We should be aware that insult could just be a perception. Seeing things as insult isn't right most of the time. Or maybe it is always not right?

      'But it is a challenge we cannot escape, so therefore it is better (and we'll be happier) to go with it and step into the flow of life whilst on this dualistic planet...'
      It is a challenge we cannot escape all right but going with its flow would be met with equal opposition. There are gurus who preach that 'going with the flow' is immoral. Although I'm sure you're not promoting immorality.

      I might add more to this later Joshua. Replies that are too long are hard to reply to.
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    Feb 17 2014: I see this article by a scholar in French and Italian literature at Princeton as pertinent to your question: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/in-praise-of-disregard/?hp

    To me it presents an option for how one can form the daily reality within which one functions by what one accepts as input and what one ignores.

    Of course the life we live is shaped by what we notice or receive and what we ignore, but she suggests an intentional, rather than the automatic unintentional, practice.
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      Feb 17 2014: Great reference sir. I'm sure all repliers will find it useful. It reminds me of the importance of knowing what to eliminate---which gets half of our tasks or perceived duties done. And of course we eliminate intentionally.
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      Feb 17 2014: Hello Fritzie, Good boost to perception, focus and discipline.
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      Feb 18 2014: Good article Fritzie, and I wholeheartedly agree!

      We can be very aware of what is happening in, and around us as individuals, and in our world, and what we focus on expands in our perception and reality. As multi-sensory, multi-dimensional, multi faceted, intelligent humans, we have the ability to take in information and sift through it to determine what we want to focus on.

      What we focus on, may be determined by an established perception or world view, and in that case, some folks may not even consider additional information.....that is a choice in each and every moment for all of us.

      It goes back to "know thyself".....know where information is coming from....know why we have certain perceptions of certain realities....know that we can make choices regarding what we focus on, while being mindfully aware of lots of different information:>)
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    Feb 17 2014: I think of 2 forces:
    -Quiet observation
    Quietly observing, just breathing. Forming a perspective, arriving at conclusions for the way things are, and questions of reasons for the way things are.
    -Communicating with others
    Communicating with others about conclusions concerning the way things are, and questions of reasons for the way things are.

    One force may dominate the other. A person's ability to tolerate quiet observation may lead to deeper conclusions and questions of reality. A person's ability to tolerate communicating with others may lead to increased empathy.

    Actions performed to develop tolerance of extremes of these 2 forces may promote individuality and sense of community.
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      Feb 17 2014: It's great that another thinker joined us here Michael.
      I'll say that the 2 forces you mentioned are basically positive---when not done with malice. And without talking about our own perspective with others, we could not be sure if our perspective could become reality.
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        Feb 17 2014: Interesting how you write about perspective becoming reality.
        I not understanding. Are you writing about a business setting?
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          Feb 17 2014: No Michael. Not about business. 'Something becomes reality only when two people agree it exists.' Those two people have perspectives that agree so their perspectives became reality. Get it now?
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          Feb 17 2014: Poch,
          You actually DID provide a business model in your introduction..." C-level executives, the employees, the customer’s customer..."...and in a follow-up comment, you changed that.

          You say...."something becomes reality only when two people agree it exists"..."those two people have perspectives that agree so their perspectives became reality".

          I've never heard that before. Where does that idea/concept come from?
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          Feb 17 2014: Hi poch. I tend to agree with the others.

          shared perception or belief may help avoid disagreement but may not accurately describe the underlying reality.

          I agree it is useful to look for confirmation with others but that does not guarantee the agreed perspective accurately describes reality.

          Different groups can have contradictoryperspectives and they all cannot be true.

          more than two people believe the universe, is 6000 years old. And more than two think it's billions of years old.

          I think the confusion is mixing up the underlying reality with perceptions of reality.
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        Feb 18 2014: Hello Michael quietly observing, just breathing. Are you breathing or being breathed?


        Good answer.
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    Feb 16 2014: For me managing my perception sounds dangerous. Questioning my perception seems safer. Absolute reality does not need my management it simply is. You can see where extreme examples of micro managers of perception appearing real such as Caligula and Hitler can lead to.

    I perceive myself the best I can as I am created by God or Life whatever you what to call it. Nothing to protect or defend only to atone to. Lastly there is nothing new, only what is new to me. Regards
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      Feb 16 2014: Excellent point Larry, which is why I asked the question.....

      "Colleen Steen
      2 days ago:
      Poch,
      It depends on how you are using and understanding the term Manage.
      It can mean "to handle or direct with a degree of skill; to make and keep submissive; to treat with care; to alter by manipulation; to succeed in accomplishing; to direct or carry on business or affairs;
      What is your perception of the word manage?"
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        Feb 17 2014: Hi Colleen, "There is a kingdom I must rule" that is the kingdom of my own mind. Through time and understanding I manage that kingdom with greater skill. The understanding of opposing forces has presented a clear direction of one choice. I simply rule my kingdom by saying "take my will and guide me" that appears to rescue me from self contrived unmanageability and denial. I manage by letting go of fear and control.

        As far as "which is why I asked the question....." I am unaware of what question you had asked. I am guilty of not reading all the posts so any similarities to a question or answer is totally random. Regards
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          Feb 17 2014: I copied my original question to the comment above Larry. I asked Poch what his perception of the word manage is.

          I wholeheartedly agree that letting go of fear and control is often beneficial:>)
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      Feb 16 2014: 'For me managing my perception sounds dangerous. Questioning my perception seems safer...'
      Yubal's reply seems to agree with yours Larry:
      'Because over-managing the perception, without heeding to what is there in your surrounding or universe, and to your commonsense judgment, would be just self-deception.'

      'Lastly there is nothing new, only what is new to me.'
      Did you cite Solomon? I definitely agree with that anyway sir.
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    Feb 16 2014: IMO, there’s ongoing confusion about perception, reality and universe.

    What IS actually there, regardless of any perception, is the universe, or call it nature.

    The reality is the interaction of the universe with consciousness or perception. The interaction creates within the consciousness the experience of the universe which we call reality. We experience the universe within our consciousness as real. There’s no reality without consciousness (perception), or at least sub-consciousness. There’s no reality for the inanimate or the dead.

    It’s also important to notice that the consciousness or perception is always individual and subjective. There’s no objective reality for 2 or more individual consciousnesses, including animals, trees, etc. We turn the subjective reality into the so called ‘Objective Reality’, only by exchanging impressions, views, signs, etc, between 2 or more subjective and completely isolated individual consciousnesses.

    According to all this analysis, your head question, “Is perception more important than reality?, is meaningless. But your next question, “Why is managing perception important?”, is significant. But as always, like with anything else, care should be taken not to exaggerate with “managing perception”. Because over-managing the perception, without heeding to what is there in your surrounding or universe, and to your commonsense judgment, would be just self-deception.
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      Feb 16 2014: 'According to all this analysis, your head question, “Is perception more important than reality?, is meaningless.'
      I first doubted my head question with Amily's reply:
      'The issue is that you don't get to know what reality is. And the reality I know is merely my perception of it.' And I replied: That should be the main basis of our convo here.

      'Because over-managing the perception, without heeding to what is there in your surrounding or universe, and to your commonsense judgment, would be just self-deception.'
      I have an inkling of what you mean Yubal but could you cite examples of how we could over-manage our perceptions for the sake of all readers sir?
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        Feb 16 2014: Other word for over-managing might be manipulating. It’s generally accepted that we should control our own minds in a positive manner. Meaning that we should think positively, be optimistic, not to despair in front of hardships, etc. We gain this positive attitude towards life by managing or directing our perception towards positive outlook onto life.

        But this positive managing would turn into manipulation, if suppose, we extend the positive acceptance of even the bad things happening to us, into also positive description of the bad reality. Meaning, suppose something real bad happened to me because I failed in doing something. The right managing should lead me to check what went wrong and try to do it better by the next time, instead of getting despaired and pessimistic.

        But suppose, managing my perception of the above reality, leads me to say that everything is OK, that I didn't make anything wrong, that I had not failed and there’s nothing to fix. This turns the managing of my perception (positively), into manipulation of my perception, or even manipulation of the (bad) reality itself. But this is nothing else than a self-deception.
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          Feb 16 2014: Right Yubal. And the word 'manipulation' is easier to understand.
          I remembered replying in one of my TED convos that we can lie to ourselves deluding ourselves into believing we are fine when we are not.

          Now you made me wonder if the perception of optimists are more dangerous sir.
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        Feb 17 2014: Hi Poch, this a reply to your comment starting with: "Right Yubal. And the word 'manipulation'......"

        There is some danger in being optimistic if you don't put limits to your optimism. That's precisely like what I said before. If the optimism leads to a false perception of the reality, then optimism is dangerous. This is true also about pessimism.

        That's why I personally prefer to be realistic rather than optimistic or pessimistic. The problem with many people is that they become afraid of the reality and so instead of confronting the reality they run away from it and find haven in over-optimism or over-pessimism. I think this is called escapism in this freak era named post-modernism, new-age, etc.
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          Feb 17 2014: So now I learn that we are both Realists sir. Although I prefer pessimism over optimism.
          I think you're right about Escapism. The tag itself implies negativity at once.
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      Feb 17 2014: Yubal and Poch,
      I suggest that one does not have to put "limits" on optimism, pessimism or realism.

      Optimism: "an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome"

      Pessimism: "an inclination to emphasize adverse aspects , conditions, and possibilities or expect the worst possible outcome"

      Realism: "concern for facts or reality and rejection of the impractical and visionary"

      I agree Yubal, that a challenge arises when people "become afraid of the reality and so instead of confronting the reality they run away from it and find haven in over-optimism or over-pessimism".

      As multi-sensory, multi-dimensional, multi-faceted humans, we can be aware of reality as it is in and around us (both our personal subjective reality, and objective reality), while CHOOSING what we wish to emphasize....what we want to focus on at any given time.

      Balance seems the best possibility in my humble perception, and I do not like to use labels, because we ALL have the ability to perceive realism, optimism and pessimism ALL at the same time. That is why we have a process in the mind/brain by which we can take in information and sift through it. Once we get "stuck" with a label, we probably see everything that is embraced by that label. If the only tool we have is a hammer, we may see everything as a nail:>)

      I agree with you Yubal, that "there’s ongoing confusion about perception, reality and universe", and I believe the confusion arises by trying to separate that which is all interconnected:>)
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        Feb 17 2014: Hi again,

        I agree that balance is the key and the right balance is the best thing one can achieve.

        I am NOT against optimism, pessimism or realism. I am just against the over-optimism, over-pessimism or over-realism. I guess I am against over-doing anything. Over-doing is different for each different thing and there’s no single rule. Perhaps a general rule for knowing when we are over-doing anything might be when we see that too much emphasizing one thing twists or ignores or annihilates other important things or values existing beside and//or simultaneously with that thing we emphasize.

        That’s true, all is interconnected. But there is sometimes need to separate the interconnected, at least temporarily, in order to examine properly a certain matter or issue, like we are doing in this discussion. There’s no doubt that perception, reality and universe are interconnected. But still there are differences between them which we are trying to discern in order to expel the confusion and misunderstanding about them.
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          Feb 17 2014: Hi again Yubal,
          I understand that you are for balance, and not against optimism, pessimism or realism. I also am not in favor of over-doing anything, and am constantly moving toward balance:>)

          I agree that a general rule may be to be aware of too much emphasizing one way or another.....it goes back to "know thyself". If we are mindfully aware on different levels, I believe we "know" when and if we feel balanced and can make adjustments:>)
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    Feb 16 2014: Hi Coleen......Just a thought. Perception is reality for the person perceiving. I don't think that I can correctly perceive another's reality. That depends on the other's abilities and capabilities. What is important is how I handle my perception. ATTITUDE is all I can do about my reality. A great Greek philosopher said and I quote-
    "The only thing that I know, is that I do not know." And I humbly agree with him.
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      Feb 16 2014: Right ma'am. Some people should learn how to stop proving themselves more intelligent than others.
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      Feb 16 2014: Hi Helen....nice to connect with you....it's been awhile!

      I wholeheartedly agree Helen....perception is reality for the person perceiving, and we all may have different perceptions/realities. I humbly agree with the quote as well Helen:>)
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    Feb 15 2014: The issue is that you don't get to know what reality is .and the reality I know is merely my perception of it.then how do you compare?
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      Feb 15 2014: 'The issue is that you don't get to know what reality is .and the reality I know is merely my perception of it.'
      Great point Amily! That should be the main basis of our convo here. And it almost made my question moot! Except of course we still learn things from it.

      'Then how do you compare?'
      I think my former 2 sentences above answers that too.
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      Feb 15 2014: Like your question, Amily. I think it is quintessential ! we do compare our sensations, feelings and whatever images we might observe, smell or hear. . Without this motor of Comparison we would not feel a thing.

      I trust that every mind plays and acts everything it perceives, and while COMPARING is judging everything and everybody based on that internal Mind's ability to act, mimic and imitate others.

      I had this topic on ted related to your questions: We have natural internal abilities to act as a few personalities within our minds. This intuitive acting ability helps us understand others, as well as situations where others are involved.

      The more closely we manage to play other characters in our mind the greater we may understand others.
      I believe that eventually each of us develops one dominating/leading character, therefore, we identify this character as our own Self. The rest of imaginable characters commonly play only "supportive" roles on the stage of one's personal reality.
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        Feb 17 2014: Hi Vera,
        By asking how do you compare I mean how do you know perception is more important than reality if you know what reality is.
        And in my perspective I agree that we shape our sense of reality thru our sensors and internal psyche .I'm not sure the comparison acutually exists among different senses. I would rather think it exists between the "thing"and "everything that is not the thing".(Now im thinking comparison is not a precise term to describe it)

        And yea different external enviroments can trigger different parts of your character or you react differently to various situation.And It's a matter of preference like you said.
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          Feb 17 2014: Hi Amily. Thank you for your comment. I am a researcher working in this still unknown field of epistemology related to our subconsciousness.

          There are internal laws of perceptions that govern the whole nature of our realities - these are revealed in our deep subconsciousness.

          The process of perceiving is a highly creative process. In order to identify colors, shapes, tastes, smells, sounds our mind MUST COMPARE everything that it senses, while it composes its "production" into a playhouse of its reality, thoughts and dreams. There is no way we can just sense one "thing" and then another.... we would not feel any differences

          Our sensations CANNOT compare themselves (as you incorrectly interpreted my words) - it is a Mind that has this ability to Compare sensations and put them in random compositions. Without this process of constant comparison, whether we are awake or asleep, our minds would sense nothing, we will have no memory, and would not exist at all.

          Comparison is a basic part of our process of perceiving. It is a new discovery, but many of us can feel the "motor" of Comparison intuitively.

          Just close your eyes and feel how your mind is browsing from one (always incomplete) image to another, and to another, and tries to come back to what it has imagined just a second ago...going back and forth, back and forth. Our minds are fluctuating constantly creating new compositions of our realities in every moment --"-because Everything is in a state of flux, including the status quo."
          Robert Byrne. Well, but it is Heraclitus who introduced us to this universal FLUX concept.

          I'm wondering if people can at least try to watch their minds behavior Beyond what we see as our superficial stage of "reality". Our minds are deeply subconscious and this is a quite fantastic, but major part of our realities.
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          Feb 17 2014: :)
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        Feb 17 2014: Thanks for your clarification Vera, and now i see i misunderstood you when you said comparing senses and what you meant by that.

        However I think one don't need to compare their senses because sensory information is taken by the receptors in one's sensory organ.e.g, you have taste cells in taste buds on the tongue .and each sensory systems has distinct receptors and nural pathways. And each receptor expirence relative external stimulis and one does't see the smell or taste the sound.and then the sensory receptors produces electronical changes that initiate neural impulses in sensory neurons , which carries the information to central nervous system.

        Here I'm talking about how the sensors take in information or maybe you are talking about process after that?

        "I'm wondering if people can at least try to watch their minds behavior Beyond what we see as our superficial stage of "reality". Our minds are deeply subconscious and this is a quite fantastic, but major part of our realities."

        I agree that subconscious play a big role and like you said it doesn't just end with the sensory processing stage.I think they are whole together :)
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          Feb 17 2014: I think the idea that we function in part by comparison is well accepted among those who study mental processes from a scientific angle. For example, we have specific measurable responses (that can be monitored and measured via, among other things MRI) when we observe by processing any combination of sensory information something different from what we expect. You will find this in the standard neuroscience textbooks. We notice and respond to variation and differences.
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          Feb 17 2014: Sweet Amily, but your taste buds would not be able to sense any difference between sour and salty, sweet and bitter tastes if your mind is unable to compare and feel the DIFFERENCES.

          No single thought can be produced unless you keep comparing the shapes and colors, numbers and words, sizes and textures. This is the fundamental law of nature that makes us Alive.

          When we are very young we learn based on that very motor of comparison - this apple is Bigger than the rest of other apples, my mother wears a red dress and my father - a white tee... etc Without comparing one can Not recognize his/her own mother's face, feel any Pain or Joy - one would not sense any difference.

          All our sense-perceptions initially activated by this natural mental "motor" of Comparison.
          Having physically perfect eyes one sees Nothing without mental subconscious process of comparison.
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          Feb 18 2014: I guess it's useful sometimes to verify what we see with what we hear, feel, smell etc.
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        Feb 17 2014: Vera,
        You write..."I'm wondering if people can at least try to watch their minds behavior Beyond what we see as our superficial stage of "reality"."

        Yes, we can observe the processes of the mind when/if we are open to accept new information and are aware of where the information is coming from.

        For example, we see all kinds of information in the form of people around us, conversations and interactions of all kinds with people, books, movies, etc.etc.etc.. As humans, we are surrounded with information all the time.

        To observe our "self" and various interconnected systems of the body/mind, we can let go of our "superficial stage of "reality"", as you call it, and open the mind and heart to different information. We can temporarily suspend our established thoughts, feelings, perceptions, perspectives, ideas and beliefs in an effort to assimilate new information.
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          Feb 17 2014: Yes, this is the only way to really learn and grow. Thank you, Colleeen.
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        Feb 21 2014: Hi Vera,
        I realise we are talking about different things even though we use the same word as comparison.Won't go into details about how the various taste are sense coded and the whole process.

        Have no problem with what you said about that.Thank you for sharing.
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    Feb 15 2014: Hello dear Poch. My answer:

    NO ONE CAN EXPERIENCE ANY REALITY UNTILL ONE PERCEIVES IT. PERCEIVING IS A CRUCIAL PROCEDURE without which no reality of any kind may be possible for anyone.

    The term "reality" is still very obscure and ultimately confusing for many, usually people think it is a given "space" with events and "things" out there, and ready for us to be reflected or PERCEIVED.

    Realities we experience are not flying somewhere on their own. Naturally, they cannot be reflected.

    Our imaginative concept about the existence of some Universal Reality is a mind-produced symbol of an unperceivable scenario of the playful world "out there".

    Governed by the laws of nature one’s reality is forever PERSONAL.
    There is no life experience that can be exactly the same. We may never see a house, universe, other people or animals in the very same way.

    PERCEIVING IS A VERY COMPLICATED PROCESS and has nothing to do with reflecting anything “out there”. PERCEIVING MEANS DIGESTING OUR INSTANT INSTINCTIVE INTERACTIONS with the world, but uniquely through each of our minds.

    At first our minds instant interactions are absolutely intuitive and obscure, before we turn them into shapes and colors, sounds and scenarious of our realities.

    It is up to our creative minds, governed by nature’s hidden laws, what to make of our primary obscure sensations, what kinds of playhouses of events, sounds and images we might create, observe and experience.

    Well, it’s a very new knowledge that we are still missing — but we might try to enter a colossal field of the unknown to us nature of our perceptions.

    If we still do not understand HOW we perceive, and what makes us perceive in the first place, we would never be able to answer - WHAT sort of reality we may experience.

    Have fun thinking!
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      Feb 15 2014: 'If we still do not understand HOW we perceive, and what makes us perceive in the first place, we would never be able to answer - WHAT sort of reality we may experience.'

      The gist of Amily's reply is almost similar:
      'The issue is that you don't get to know what reality is .and the reality I know is merely my perception of it.'

      'Have fun thinking!'
      See my former reply to you dear :-)
  • Mar 9 2014: Simply using our eyes to build an internal picture of the external environment requires energy. Perception requires energy. A human being's perception of reality is even more exhausting because of the complexity of human relationships and using technology. But manipulating other people's perception of ourselves is so exhausting that most people restrict this to choosing what clothes to wear and what to talk about. But some people still go over the top with it; it is boring at the top of the food chain. Happiness is derived from energy. The best way to manage perception so that you increase your energy is to close your eyes, not to try to get other people to give you their energy.
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      Mar 9 2014: Excellent argument Rodrigo.
      'The best way to manage perception so that you increase your energy is to close your eyes, not to try to get other people to give you their energy.'
      Right. At least meditation will cleanse us from negative energy which exhausts us---and negative energy is what we get when we try to get other people to give us their energy.
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    Feb 18 2014: I would suggest that perception in an individual is their emotional reality and that that has a significant and long-term effect on the practical aspects of outcomes related to that perception's component of life. The fact that so many of us find ourselves "managing" other people's perceptions and interpretations is a significant problem that points back to the managers - people who feel in lessening control of their own lives often project behavior control onto external places as a detail of blame, fear, paranoia or whatever else their personal harm is creating in their own mind.

    Another suggestion: Reality can be described by two major components - structure and detail. We often only recognize detail when dealing with problems. Yet the problems which seem to reappear or seemingly have no answer are actually the ones which usually have the shortest solutions. Those are problems of structure. They can be fixed often within metaphor.

    For instance, our economy tanks periodically and large segments of the population lose their homes. We think of currency as a finite resource. When there are problems we wonder how to change the math on our control mechanisms like the discount rate. Yet the problems persist. Why? The metaphor. Finite resources like gold or copper always go up in value over time. Currency is not finite. It should never be at the mercy of scarcity. Fiat currency is GOOD and the 99% are completely wrong. So is the 1%. At some point someone knew this was true. They may be dead by now. either way, here is the giveaway: inflation. Knowing we treat money as a finite resource, how would you motivate people to invest in businesses if our money was scarce and always going up in value like gold does? You would have to artificially make the value go DOWN. It's reasonable.. Yet it has not only backfired as a means to do so, but increasingly makes the bankers who refuse to reveal the lie look like evildoers. It's the metaphor. Economists should run an economy.
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      Feb 18 2014: I thought at first you were replying to my convo Should we Hate the 1%? because it is about economy. Anyway, I'm amazed how you used Economy as an illustration for this convo.

      'Economists should run an economy.'
      I'm not well-versed about economy Ewan so all I can say is what your point is is that argument is reality for you and not just perception.
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        Feb 18 2014: Sorry, I wasn't trying to throw in activism spam. I was replying to your conversation. The fact that you picked up on the keywords of an economic protest and responded to the perception it was spam kind of makes a point all by itself! I used this economic example because it's something we are all familiar with.

        The point I made clear as mud was this: Even in a national situation that most people are affected by many times in their lives, the ability to get past the perception that the solution to an economic problem will only ever be math is very difficult for people.

        The second issue that is veiled by wrong perception is the silly premise that bankers should be in change of an economic system. Once again, the perception is that because banks store our money that they should manage how it is valued. We even cringe at the notion of the banking system failing. Yet there are many people who can't even get bank accounts these days. Their lives don't end without banks. The truth behind the false perception is that the Economic System is an interrelated system of suppliers, demanders, and in betweeners. Only a portion of the inbetweeners are banks. It requires an economist's skillset to manage the one aspect of that system which can bring it all crashing down. Yet most people don't understand that truthful perception!

        Food for thought: Perhaps managing in terms of "harm" or "help" in situations of business or social should become the norm. The premise that explanations of anything should originate from the need to control how other people think is nice for profit in the short term, but long-term it can damage understanding of an issue. National terror alerts and preparation, for instance, may be an easy way to bring people together in apparent unity, yet in an actual harm situation in the future we might get stuck in a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation where no one cares about the alert when it matters most.
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          Feb 18 2014: 'Finite resources like gold or copper always go up in value over time. Currency is not finite. It should never be at the mercy of scarcity. Fiat currency is GOOD and the 99% are completely wrong. So is the 1%.'
          Cash is not the true wealth. Real wealth is anything---even a college degree---that could be turned to cash.

          'Yet there are many people who can't even get bank accounts these days.'
          In my case, just because all my valid IDs are expired!

          'Their lives don't end without banks. The truth behind the false perception is that the Economic System is an interrelated system of suppliers, demanders, and in betweeners. Only a portion of the inbetweeners are banks.'
          I'm sorry but I have to insist that Big Banks are the major tool of economic tyranny.

          'The premise that explanations of anything should originate from the need to control how other people think is nice for profit in the short term, but long-term it can damage understanding of an issue.'
          Controlling how other people think is at once immoral anyway.

          'National terror alerts and preparation, for instance, may be an easy way to bring people together in apparent unity, yet in an actual harm situation in the future we might get stuck in a "Boy Who Cried Wolf" situation where no one cares about the alert when it matters most.'

          Government false flags are in fact being used now. One big example is the need for nationwide enforced vaccinations. Many scientists are giving contrary proof to that.
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          Feb 18 2014: Poch,
          You say..."Government false flags are in fact being used now. One big example is the need for nationwide enforced vaccinations. Many scientists are giving contrary proof to that."

          Is that your perception? Or reality? Can you provide links to information which might substantiate your statement that "many scientists are giving contrary proof to that".......thanks.
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      Feb 18 2014: Poch,
      This is what some of us have been trying to address and clarify with you.....what is your focus?

      You present a business model/example in your introduction, then you are "amazed" that people address the issue in that context!


      Your introduction...
      'So the point is that perception is something you have to constantly mange. Whose perception? Everyone’s—the C-level executives, the employees, the customer’s customer, and most important, your own.

      The link you provide is about executives and managers.... managing.
      http://bigthink.com/flash-foresight/what-should-todays-executives-and-managers-really-be-managing
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        Feb 18 2014: Idea: They should try managing their words in order to create understanding of the truth. Jargon is a great way to avoid the issue. In politics, technology, and financial areas there tend to be quick lifecycles of ever-changing jargon. I wonder why?
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          Feb 18 2014: I agree Ewan, that jargon can be a way to avoid the issue, it can be a way to try to direct a conversation in a way one wishes it to go, it can be a demonstration that a person using jargon is genuinely unclear about the topic.....the possibilities go on and on......

          BTW....welcome to TED conversations, which is not free of jargon:>)
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        Feb 18 2014: Thank you! I've watched TED for a few years, but only recently have the nerve to stick my neck out in conversation.

        I know. Funny how it can eve be difficult to focus the perceptions of a conversation on perceptions in order to achieve the desired responses. You get well-structured replies with sometimes puzzling detail of theme.
  • Feb 18 2014: This is such a difficult question because as I read the comments my perception shifts along with that of many of those commenting. Moreover, isn't this an incomplete question without context? I read a lot of comments and answers but I did not get through them all. I apologize if this was already brought up and I appreciate your patience in reading as I work through this.
    So without context, in my attempt to cut through all of the beautiful sentiment and thought provoking arguments, I ask myself yet another question; "Is perception to theory what reality is to truth?" If it is not, then read no further...but if you'll humor me, read on. :-) If my perception of a thing is not in fact proven to be absolute truth then it is not reality. So with that in mind it seems clear that proven truth is more important than theory and thus reality is more important than perception...in this sentence. Unfortunately in some other application reality may not be as important. The perception or belief that a woman was a witch in Salem's Lot was more important than the reality or truth that she was not because the perception cost her her life when she was burned at the stake. The perception of a group can far outweigh reality or truth. So I believe I've decided that the importance of either depends on the context, the outcome expected and the ability for absolute truth to prevail. Examples being looking the part of a successful and driven individual and actually being a crook or the perception of levitation vs the reality of gravity.

    I'm going to stop now...I think I could go in circles for hours on this. Thanks for the exercise Poch!
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      Feb 18 2014: By the way you converse, I'll guess that you're an academic philosopher Andre.

      '"Is perception to theory what reality is to truth?" If it is not, then read no further...but if you'll humor me, read on. :-)...'
      In fact, your question might be better than mine!

      'If my perception of a thing is not in fact proven to be absolute truth then it is not reality. So with that in mind it seems clear that proven truth is more important than theory and thus reality is more important than perception...'
      Very astute Andre and that's just how we should think. Even your illustration using Salem's Lot is excellent.

      And I wish you'll go on if you wish too. Intelligent feedback is always useful. I'll give you more exercise in the future as a reward :-)
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      Feb 18 2014: I agree Andre....context is important, otherwise a discussion goes round and round in philosophical circles as this one is going!

      Welcome to TED conversations Andre:>)
      • Feb 19 2014: Judging from your badge of "500+" and a number of your posts that I've read, you know your way in and out of these "philosophical circles." :-) I on the other hand am dizzy and plan to take a break, watch some videos and recover.

        Thank you for your reply and thank you for your warm welcome as well!
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    Feb 16 2014: “All that we are is the result of what we have thought: it is founded on our thoughts and made up of our thoughts. If a man speak or act with an evil thought, suffering follows him as the wheel follows the hoof of the beast that draws the wagon.... If a man speak or act with a good thought, happiness follows him like a shadow that never leaves him.”
    ― Gautama Buddha



    We are selfproducers of our personal realities and we have our choices. I guess this is what our whole life is about.

    If we are gifted creators we are rewarded with happiness, if we are producing ugliness we cannot escape from it and punish ourselves.
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    Feb 15 2014: A little treat for you, Poch.

    “You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection”
    ― Gautama Buddha
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    Feb 15 2014: 1. Buddha suggests beautiful philosophy embracing one's reality, the most profound I think, compared to the rest of famous beliefs. Buddha does not describe HOW our perceptions work. There is a hidden "mechanism" that works within each of our minds in great coherency.

    2. I'd say what we "cook" from our primordial primary sensations becomes our reality.

    3. I'd say all our man-made productions, including theater, arts, movies, internet and recording of all sorts, are created after our natural set of primordial art, sound recording, and animation "studios" built in our minds by nature. We cannot go "out there" for ideas - we find them within our mind's subconscious fields. Subconsiosness is filled with precious "stones".

    4. I guess we cannot make the world "stay still" by imagining that we always come back to the same house or talk to the same people..The world changes instantly and never "comes" back. Those who are the most brave among us, feel that we face the unknown in every moment - we can discover it. The rest of minds are frozen in "the same past" - the most dangerous "comfort" I can imagine.

    5. Poch - you're so great to ask brilliant questions - very controversial and provocative too.

    SInce I was a young student of life, 4 or 5, I felt I was an alien, ultimately uncomfortable to mimic or follow others.
    The result - I grew up into a quiet revolutionary, Though I feel I'm a lonely tiny figure browsing in the endelss new field of "epistemology", overloaded with new evidence on behavior of perceptions, (supported by only a few scholars who watch me), I've found myself in heaven. That very hardness and toughness of challenge, loneliness and responsibility for delivering what you reveal to at least a few thinking individuals, is ultimately rewarding :) Nothing can be compared to that happiness of discovering and experiencing the unknown.
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      Feb 15 2014: 'SInce I was a young student of life, 4 or 5, I felt I was an alien, ultimately uncomfortable to mimic or follow others. The result - I grew up into a quiet revolutionary...'
      Been exactly there too Vera. The reason we're on the same vibes.

      'Though I feel I'm a lonely tiny figure browsing in the endelss new field of "epistemology", overloaded with new evidence on behavior of perceptions, (supported by only a few scholars who watch me), I've found myself in heaven...'
      Difference now. I only felt heaven when I was already almost 30.

      'That very hardness and toughness of challenge, loneliness and responsibility for delivering what you reveal to at least a few thinking individuals, is ultimately rewarding :) ...'
      Although I'm very flattered (thanks!) I'm just returning favor dear.

      'Nothing can be compared to that happiness of discovering and experiencing the unknown.'
      You bet it is!
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        Feb 16 2014: By reading your comments I gratefully feel - more alive "here".
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          Feb 16 2014: My aim is to make readers gain knowledge or more aware or alive and I'm so glad to hear that accomplished with you dear Vera. And I remind you again that that is what you're also doing. You take what you give.
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    Feb 15 2014: There is only one reality and every ones different perceived reality, their thoughts and feelings are part of that.

    The physical, chemical, electrical, reality, including matter and energy, and physical brain states, and the ideas and beliefs sitting in brains is all part of one reality.

    even beliefs about reality that are false, like the death is the centre of the universe, and subjective beliefs about what color it's best are part of one reality.

    perceived reality is often different from the underlying reality, add at best is just a subset
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      Feb 15 2014: So I take it you agree that perception is more important than reality Obey?
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        Feb 16 2014: It seems a bit vague to ask whether perception or reality is most important.

        it may depend on the specifics of the question or situation being examined.

        I actually think perception and reality work together.

        if you perceive a cliff as a safe road, your perception impacts you behaviour, you may proceed to walk forward. But the reality of the cliff will kill you.
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          Feb 16 2014: 'I actually think perception and reality work together. if you perceive a cliff as a safe road, your perception impacts you behaviour, you may proceed to walk forward. But the reality of the cliff will kill you.'

          Great reply and illustration Obey. We can manipulate our perception. It's up to us whether we let it work together for our benefit or for our peril.
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    Feb 15 2014: There is no school yet that is teaching the fundamental laws of perceptions. This knowledge would help us evolve our recycling mentality and improve morals.

    These nature's laws are after everything we may sense and perceive. Whatever we sense, observe and comprehend is already digested within our own unique minds (and through our bodies/brains)

    As crazy as this might sound to the majority, our own perceptions Create our Experience of all sorts: what we call "gravity", "electromagnetic" fields, a starry composition of our universe, liquids and solids, and after all - space and time.

    A microb would not feel what we see as a solid table, and it would go through that table easily without feeling its density or weight, would not see its size, color and texture. Can we deny a microbe's reality because our reality is different?

    The most fascinating primordial art, sound recording and animation studios, are built into our minds by her majesty Nature herself. Our perceptions work through Great limitations, but these are our carving sculptor's chisels to shape up obscure sensations into images and things, water, trees, houses, universes, cells, particles, each other...

    The world is always new and uniquely different, so are we in it. The ultimate reality "out there" has no time or space - it is an instant change. Our perceptions fluctuate in order to adjust to unavoidable change.

    We may see "the same things or events" only because our perceptions are extremely crude, artistically creating illusions of sameness, stability, exactness, universal love..

    Speaking in general we must be artistically unique just in order to survive.

    I'd say - this is the most generous nature's gift we still do not notice - every living form has to create its own one-of-a-kind reality for the sake of its own personal, irreplaceable existence - within its own playhouses of reality.

    How do we communicate?

    First we need to reveal the fundamental natural laws of perceptions.
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      Feb 15 2014: 'There is no school yet that is teaching the fundamental laws of perceptions.'
      But I think 'perception' is always included in the lessons of Yoga and Buddhism.

      '...our own perceptions Create our Experience of all sorts...'
      What we think is what we get.

      'The most fascinating primordial art, sound recording and animation studios, are built into our minds by her majesty Nature herself.'
      And now the fast pace of life goaded by modern tech is competing with that.

      'Speaking in general we must be artistically unique just in order to survive.'
      A famous author said: To be truly creative, one needs to jump into the unknown.

      'First we need to reveal the fundamental natural laws of perceptions.'
      Why does this seem so harder to achieve than creating something revolutionary?
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    Feb 15 2014: Poch, Again the self analysis .. I am going to leave one of your questions with a self image problem and curled up in the corner sucking my thumb. LOL

    The simple answer, for me, is that once you know and accept who you are faults and all ... most of the other issues will go away.

    I cannot dictate how other view, see, or percieve me. I cannot and will not try to please everyone. I have had bosses who loved me and bosses who hated me .. all I could do was to do the job I was hired for .. bosses come and go ... I stayed. My problem is to look at the guy in the mirror and ask if I have done my best and lived with honor. If I cannot look at the guy in the mirror I have a problem that needs resolution ... NOW.

    Thoses who deal in perception may have a problem with reality. Reality is what you are asking us to look into ourselves to evaluate. I can lie to you and others and may convience them ... but I cannot lie to ME.

    So regardless of the cost to political, social, business, etc ... realities are forever ... perceptions come and go.

    I wish you well .... Bob.
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      Feb 15 2014: '...once you know and accept who you are faults and all ... most of the other issues will go away.'
      Absolutely true Bob.

      'Those who deal in perception may have a problem with reality.'
      We all deal with perception 24/7 so we have a continuous problem with reality. You proved that with your statement: 'So regardless of the cost to political, social, business, etc ... realities are forever ... perceptions come and go.'

      ... but I cannot lie to ME.
      Again, we can all lie to ourselves IF we choose to fool ourselves and be dishonest.
  • Feb 14 2014: Your reality is dependent upon your perception. You talk about reality as if there were only one.
    "Nothing exists outside the mind for it is the mind that makes it so"- Keith W Henline
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      Feb 14 2014: 'Your reality is dependent upon your perception.'
      Yes sir. That's the general consensus.

      'You talk about reality as if there were only one.'
      Probably what I'm unclear about.

      "Nothing exists outside the mind for it is the mind that makes it so"- Keith W Henline
      Great quote Keith. Reminds me of a Greek philosopher and a wise man who said:
      'Something becomes reality only when two persons agree it exists.'
      • Feb 15 2014: Some Greek Philosophers have been wrong, as in this case however it is amazing that a lot of their observations have held up for thousands of years. Just a few hundred years ago most people thought the world was flat and someone said over 20% of the rural people in Russia still think it is flat. I am sure you can find some people right here in the USA who will argue the point.

        Which Greek Philosopher said that? I googled it and could not find any.
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          Feb 15 2014: Yes Keith. There will always be skeptics. My quote? It was just anonymously quoted in a fiction book I read.
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          Feb 25 2014: Once more once again Poch, Is the damn Earth flat or not!

          "How do you know for sure what you are seeing is fact or real?" By knowing what is not fact and what is not real. What is real currently exists, what isn't real doesn't exist. I am not saying the mind can not be mislead I am saying that has no effect on what is real.
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        Feb 25 2014: Poch, So I've been told at one time it was agreed by many that the Earth was flat. Is the Earth flat? I am curious to know how human beings perceiving illusion as truth or truth as illusion has an effect on the reality of what is actual? If you want multiple reality disorder, help yourself. Our minds do not create reality, as human beings we are not the great creators of what is real, we simply see something as it is or not.
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          Feb 25 2014: There was a recent survey or study that says about 25% of Americans still believe the Earth is flat.
          We see something as real or illusion. Yet we can't be sure which is which.
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        Feb 25 2014: Again Poch, Is the Earth flat? I am asking you not the 25% of all that is not you.

        "We see something as real or illusion. Yet we can't be sure which is which." It must be one or the other, it can't be both and that's reality. Why are you saying we?

        There in lies the problem, one's ability to discern between fact and fiction.
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          Feb 25 2014: How do you know for sure what you are seeing is fact or real? Even the greatest magicians can produce visuals most of which cannot be proven illusion.
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      Feb 15 2014: Keith,
      You write....
      "Your reality is dependent upon your perception. You talk about reality as if there were only one."
      "Nothing exists outside the mind for it is the mind that makes it so"

      If it is our mind that creates our reality, and our reality is dependent on our perceptions (which I agree with), that is our personal reality.....yes?

      You also write..."you talk about reality as if there were only one".
      You are suggesting that there are different realities for different people? Which I also agree with.

      So, there are realities outside our own mind and our own personal realities? Is it accurate to say that "nothing exists outside the mind"?

      I suggest that there are other perceptions and realities outside our own perceptions/realities/mind.....what do you think about this?
      • Feb 15 2014: Yes Colleen our mind creates and alters our reality as it goes along. "As a man thinketh, so is he"- James Allen Who by the way copied the Buddha "What you think you become"- Buddha 500BC
        In order for my quote to make sense you have to think about the entire quote, words are just building blocks to form an idea. However that being said the first half of my quote will stand all by itself "nothing exists outside the mind" the last part is just the reasoning behind it.
        Does Santa Claus exist? Does the fat old man come down the chimney and with a bag full of presents? Does he live at the north pole? Does he know if you've been good or bad?

        Ask anyone of millions of kids? That "is" their reality! What about God? Did God create the world in seven days? To millions of adults that is their reality! What about America? Is it America the Beautiful? Again to millions that is their reality. Yet in all these cases there are many other realities that conflict with these realities. Actually they do not conflict, they are just different. I say they are all true. I think what ever you believe is true to you. It may not be true to your mate or kids or anyone else in the world but it is true to you. It is your own personal reality and so there are as many realities as there are brains. Even plants and animals have a reality. I also believe they are all connected to each other. One effects the others in many ways. On the other hand our perception (our senses) only allow us to "see" what is in our immediate surroundings. Some people have learned to open those senses and perceptions up more than others.

        "Out of the mouth of babes" Remember the story Robinson told of the little girl who was drawing God and was told that no one knows what God looks like, her reply "they will in a minute". That's it! She hit it right out of the park. Each of us has our own reality!
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          Feb 15 2014: It looks like you are agreeing with me Keith? I agree that some folks have learned to open their/our heart and mind to different perceptions and realities, and in my perception and experience, that is much more enjoyable than the alternative:>)
      • Feb 15 2014: Is it accurate to say that "nothing exists outside the mind"? I say yes
        Are there other realities? I say yes, each organism has it's own reality
        I know these two statements appear to conflict with each other but I think they simply co-exist and are both true.
        The first is true because the mind is the port hole through which we perceive the world. If I take way your mind...... nothing exists for you. The mind "is" the creator of existence. No mind - No existence.
        Got mind - Got perception - Got existence.
        The mind builds it own perceived world in your head. And all are unique and different.
        Other people and things do not exist to you until your mind opens that door. There are many things that do not exist for you until your mind becomes aware of them and it is that awareness or perception that creates there existence for you.
        If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it does it make a sound? the answer is no. Or did the tree even fall? In my mind it did not fall or even exist until I perceive it.
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          Feb 15 2014: I agree that two of your statements co-exist, which is why I said I agreed with them in a previous comment:>)

          I believe that if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it, it still makes a sound....whether anyone hears it or not.

          Just as I believe that things exist outside my mind, whether I am aware of them or not.
      • Feb 15 2014: Most people believe as you do so I am not surprised. I have always been a little odd compared to the norm and I consider that a positive thing for me.
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          Feb 15 2014: I don't think we are that far apart in our beliefs Keith, and it may be simply our perception regarding how to express it. I tend to march to my very own drummer as well:>)

          EDIT
          Maybe this is our "glitch"?
          Your very first statement is..."Your reality is dependent upon your perception"

          You are speaking of one's personal reality....yes?

          Then you write...""Nothing exists outside the mind..."
          AND, you suggest that there is more than one reality.
          I am interpreting that to mean that there are other realities outside our mind, so in my perception, something DOES exist outside our personal perception/reality/mind.
      • Feb 15 2014: I try to think of things in there simplest form. Each of us does have our own reality but we only have one. We cannot have more as apposed to personalities which we can have as many as we can handle (a little multi-tasking). Dependent upon how pronounced the personalities become you may be referred to as crazy or a comedian. Some of us have more control than others over our personalities.
        Back to our reality, the only thing I know for sure is that I exist. There could be any number of explanations for everything and everyone else that I perceive. Some seem a lot more plausible than others but I could be as wrong about the reality I choose to believe, I have been wrong before a lot. You seem so sure of your own reality and at our age I would think we would have that all figured out by now but the more I know, the more I know I don't know.
        For one thing all that religious and Americanized propaganda went out the window years ago along with the tooth fairies. What a joke to pull on the world and most swallowed the bait all the way down to the tail. The old bait and switch trick just never ends and we fall for it "every" time. So you tell me what is real and what is not. Is any of this real or is God just having a bad day?
        It has taken me forty years to figure out why the world is so strange and I am sure it will take more than forty to implement any meaningful changes. That is my reality. I am not qualified to answer what your reality is. Only you can answer that, and you may be wrong :) :)
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          Feb 15 2014: I appreciate your modesty and spirit of inquiry, Keith, the recognition always that you could be wrong. I am sure you know the wonderful Kathryn Shulz TED talk on being wrong.

          It's a good position from which to learn. There is too much arrogance and self-promotion in the world.
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          Feb 16 2014: Keith, your comment is very honest. I know many people who feel and express in exact same way as yours. In most part I do too.
          However, at the age and experience that I am in, I am not very sure about the existence of 'I' from ontological point of view. I understand that recognition of self as the central agency of consciousness is more or less true for animals and higher primates - for the rest there is not enough information.
          There seems to be an outside chance that the ontological 'self' (and consequently the philosophical 'self' too) may be a purely abstract model developed as a bye-product of brain functions of humans, higher primates and possibly some animals. I believe that as evolution needed the brain to be progressively complex, a kind of agent detection principle took over to create the idea of 'self' (for animals with complex brains) or 'I' (for humans). 'Mind' as we know it is a social projection from external information on this 'self' or 'I'.
          Perception is easy to understand. It's problematic to understand 'who' perceives. Since 'reality' is only accessible through perception, I may conclude that perception is more important than reality. There seems to be NO unpercieved or unperceivable reality.
          My take.
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          Feb 16 2014: Keith,
          You write...
          "You seem so sure of your own reality and at our age I would think we would have that all figured out by now but the more I know, the more I know I don't know."

          I feel sure of my reality in any given moment, because my perception is that the present moment is the only reality. The past is gone by and the future has not yet happened, so this moment has never "been" before and will never "be" again....it is the only reality, and I feel sure of that....for myself. To me, that is logical, reasonable, and simple.

          I revisit past experiences at times for the purpose of learning, and sometimes speculate about the future. I do not, however, let the past or the future intrude on the here and now....in the moment.

          I learn, grow and evolve in the moment and I'm ok with not knowing what the next moment will be like. To speculate that I might have things all figured out by now seems unrealistic to me. I LOVE being curious and enjoying the adventure of life as things unfold, and will be doing that until I take my last breath:>) How is that working for you....to think that at a certain age we would have things all figured out?

          You write...
          "So you tell me what is real and what is not."

          I reflect back to you, your own words...
          " Only you can answer that,..."
      • Feb 16 2014: TY Fritzie, I had not heard it so I listened, read the transcript and then watched it again. Wonderful and so right on. That's why I vote Female first, Young second and Old Men last resort. We have to start listening to women if we are going to survive and realize that yes, maybe we are wrong. In fact it is highly likely we are wrong, look at the results!
        Colleen is such a marvel to communicate with she let's me run with the hook in my mouth for a mile before she gently pulls back on the line to let me know I've been hooked. She is also amazingly open to new ideas and always curious, not many like her around. She reminds me of a bit part in "A Beautiful Mind" where John Nash is out in the night sky with Alicia and she says " I once tried to count them all. I made it to 4,348." John said "You are exceptionally odd." It was the beginning of their love affair. Colleen if your listening... "You are exceptionally odd."
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          Feb 16 2014: Thank you Keith:>)

          How about if we think of ideas being neither right or wrong, but simply perceptions and realities that we can all share with each other?
      • Feb 16 2014: "As you wish"- P.B.

        P.B. is Princess Bride this will explain:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6qpa-mRLnI
      • Feb 16 2014: Pabitra or anyone else it is a little off the subject but I am curious about your perception of the soul. I think of it as being extremely small like the size of a neutrino which is massless and not part of the original standard model of particle physics. They are so small that they will pass right through even an atom and not disturb it. Billions pass right through us and everything in the universe constantly. It is so small that it easily travels through the Higgs field without detection. And because it is so small and has no mass or even an electrical charge it should travel at any speed it chooses. However I believe this soul even though it is small contains all of our personal universal knowledge and still has room to expand that knowledge to infinity. I believe this small soul has always existed and always will. If this is true it would explain a lot for instance reincarnation, being born with special knowledge and talents and an after life. It would also explain the out of body experiences and the floating above the body after death or near death experience. Also since it has no charge it would also pass through dark matter and or black holes and that opens up another dimension of which we no nothing either and yet there is more dark matter than anything else. As long as we have gone this far you might as well ask if the soul actually stays with the body all the time or just when it is called upon and the rest of the time it plays throughout the universe's with other souls. Maybe they go on road trips in groups, like we do while sleeping.
        In quantum mechanics it would provide a path to understanding the entanglement theory, they know it exists and believe it happens simultaneously over any distance but no one has explained how it works yet. Opps, did I just explain that, sorry, I am not supposed to let those things out. The devil made me do it :) :)
        By the way I shared a personal story on my profile about me that you may like and yes it really happened.
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          Feb 16 2014: Keith,
          My perception, is that the words "soul" or "spirit" were created to try to explain the energy that powers the body/mind. I perceive the energy to carry information.....similar to a computer which is powered by energy and carries information. The human body is the "carrier".

          That is what I perceived with an NDE/OBE, and science seems to verify that energy runs through the body/mind. As I'm sure you know....energy moves and changes form, and there may be more types of energy than we (humans) have identified. So, you ask...does the soul play throughout the universe and go on road trips? My perception, is that the energy that powers the body moves and changes form.


          EDIT
          I used the word "created" when speaking about the words soul and spirit, and "derived from and used" might have been more accurate.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul
          "The Greek word is derived from a verb "to cool, to blow" and hence refers to the vital breath, the animating principle in humans and other animals…"

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit
          "The English word spirit comes from the Latin spiritus, meaning "breath", but also "spirit, soul, courage, vigor…”
      • Feb 16 2014: Colleen P.B. is for Princess Bride the movie, if you have not seen it, please take the time to watch it. It is one those movies that is timeless and incredibly funny IMHO. After watching it the words "as you wish" take on a whole new meaning. I am still working on your references to the soul. No conclusions yet just more information. I like several aspects of your explanation. Maybe the soul would be a good conversation, there certainly seems to be a lot of information about the soul?
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          Feb 23 2014: Oh! I've heard of the movie, and not seen it:>)

          There certainly is lots of speculation about a soul!
      • Feb 16 2014: My speculation of having it all figured out is more of an observation of some of the older generation. You know me well enough to see I thrive on the unknown while craving a specific answer that makes sense to me. I want order but as Nietzsche says "out of chaos comes order" therefore by life is full of chaos and in that chaos I find peace and freedom.
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          Feb 23 2014: We seem to be in agreement with this idea Keith.....I am also comfortable with "unknown", while being curious and exploring as much as possible. Chaos, however is not my preference, although I agree that usually out of chaos comes order. I feel that "it is what it is", and I don't need to label certain things "chaos", because it's just part of the life exploration. So, I don't feel "chaos".....I feel "life"....as it is in the moment:>)

          One reason I actually like the state of "unknown" is because once we think we "know" something, the exploration often stops. I like to think/feel that what I think I "know" at any given time, is my perception, based on information I think I have at that time.
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        Feb 16 2014: Hi colleen,

        You make very good point. You ask, “Is it accurate to say that "nothing exists outside the mind"?”

        My reply is that of course there exists the entire universe outside of our mind. But here begins the confusion, because we do not make the necessary subtle distinctions between the universe and the reality. Reality is the interaction of the universe with the consciousness or perception. The interaction creates within the consciousness the experience of the universe which we call reality.

        For each one, there’s only 1 subjective reality which is contained within one’s consciousness//mind. There are definitely other realities in others’ minds. But they are not that one's reality. In order to know the others’ realities, one needs to exchange impressions, views, signs with the others and thus to bring those realities into his own consciousness and turn them into his own subjectively perceptional reality. Without inserting those realities into his/her own consciousness, one cannot ever come into contact with those others’ realities. There’s no another way. So, for this reason, it is true to say that for each one, there’s no other reality than what is found within one’s own consciousness.
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          Feb 17 2014: Thanks Yubal....you make good points as well:>)

          I agree, that in order to try to understand others' realities, one needs to exchange information to bring those realities into his/her own consciousness, and that is called compassion.

          I also agree that we can explore and consider other realities without making them our own.

          So my reality is that I perceive certain things that are reality to me (subjective reality), while also being aware that other people have different realities. Therefor I am aware in my own consciousness of my personal perceptions and realities, while respecting and appreciating others' perceptions and reality:>)

          The confusion arises for some folks when their perceptions/realities become part of their identity and they are attached to the information as if it is the ONLY reality.
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    Feb 14 2014: That's how I perceive it.
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      Feb 14 2014: Meaning, you perceive that perception is more important than reality right Mike? A straight and concise reply!
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        Feb 14 2014: Absolutely. If my wife hadn't perceived that she could make something out of the mess she found...I would be a lonely old hermit.
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        Feb 14 2014: Hi Colleen...
        You could say that or you could say she is a glutton for punishment.
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          Feb 15 2014: Of course Mike....we could say, think, feel anything... according to our perception, which influences our reality. I prefer to think/feel that your wife is a good manager with exquisite perception and influence:>)
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        Feb 15 2014: Hi Colleen,
        I am sure my wife would be grateful of your kind consideration of her perceptions. But as she looks after me, I am not sure of her appreciation for her reality ie. putting up with me for fifty years. However, in my defense, as I have aged, she has remained the same. Sort of Dorian Grey...
        My perception is that I should take credit for her youthful reality.
  • Feb 28 2014: Hi Poch, it would almost seem, as if the two are apples and oranges..
    We can perceive just about anything and change our reality according to how much time we have :)

    May I offer, as an introduction, this book? The Human Mind. It mentions "perception" 44 times.
    http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/documents/TheHumanMind.pdf

    I hope you are open to the concept of dualism. To me it not only makes sense and gives meaning to life, but gives many more things to think about, and perceive..

    thanks very much for this very interesting question.
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      Feb 28 2014: Yes Adriaan. Changing reality if could be done would take a vast amount of time. It's obviously more difficult to do than changing concrete things.

      I am open to the concept of dualism sir. And because you mentioned it, I seem to realize that it's contrary to conservative Christian theology. That is if applied to their Trinity doctrine which teaches three beings in one instead of two opposite parts. Do I make sense?

      I'll give you feedback on the PDF whenever I finish reading it. Anything about the mind is interesting to me and you know that sir.
      • Feb 28 2014: Thank you very much for your reply, and yes you do make sense..
        It is indeed our opinion that the traditional Christian beliefs regarding the Trinity went off track by the Council of Nicaea changing their official interpretation into three separate persons. The mind believes in three gods, while the lips say one.

        That's why we often call ourselves New Christians. The Trinity we see as a trinity of aspects, not persons. This is how we explain that
        http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/studies/Who_is_Jesus.pdf

        Hope you like the PDF file and you can reach me anytime.
        Have a great weekend
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          Feb 28 2014: I noticed that both your web links have 'abraam/studies' in them. Does that mean you wrote the articles yourself? It would be more interesting if that's the case sir.
      • Feb 28 2014: When you go to my page you'll see that our daughter is the 'theme'. I've collected material that I see as helpful and good to read.

        I leave links to things so you and others can read stuff from experts, not from nobodies like me.
        The name is just to identify the free web page, not who wrote the stuff, sorry.
        This is the page http://webhome.idirect.com/~abraam/
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          Feb 28 2014: You don't have to apologize sir and we are not nobodies. What you do is what I do too---content curation. And I do that at pochp.wordpress.com. Note the comparison between our web addresses.
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    Feb 27 2014: Here's a ridiculous theory by James and Tom who didn’t share their last names:
    'In our correspondence, James and Tom focus on managing subjective perceptions as opposed to realities. The key, they say, is that a girlfriend will be happy because she’ll “perceive her boyfriend as more engaged”...'
    http://www.wired.com/opinion/2014/02/outsourcing-humanity-apps/
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      Feb 26 2014: You are one persistent effective salesman Bren.
      Split brain with one half atheist and one half theist
      That's how you see me right? I might accept that but eventually, I will still be a theist.
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          Feb 27 2014: Yes Bren. I should have thought too that you are the half atheist half theist. And I would be very glad if that's the case.

          'Our friend Jacob Warren told me that the atheist hemi and theist hemi could yell back and forth to each other across the Lake of Fire in hell... I love it!'
          lol I didn't catch that in the video because the audio was distorted.

          Did the Etruscans invent Hell before it was a Bible doctrine?
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          Feb 28 2014: Hey. Next time don't delete any replies to me whether it says I'm Satan. I learn from those kinds of comments too. Could you at least tell me who the replier was?

          You'll find a lot of reference to the Lake of Fire in the Bible book of Revelations if you're interested Bren.
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          Feb 28 2014: 'I find it interesting and depressing that you did not respond in a relevant fashion to the reply I did send you re Etruscan-invented hell...'
          Do you mean I didn't reply at all or just relevantly?
          I don't claim to be a philosopher and I'm not a theologian although I studied one year of Theology. In fact I avoid religious and political topics because I basically hate them. And mind you, I don't believe in a Hell that torments a sinner forever. What I believe in is Divine Retribution---whether good or bad.

          And now that you hate me and see me as fake and shallow minded, why don't you stop replying to me and asserting your atheist intelligence over me?
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    Feb 26 2014: Poch, Do we have opposing philosophical beliefs? Maybe, I'm not certain what your core beliefs are. Regards
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    Feb 25 2014: No Catch 21 or 22. We think and then we see some of it true and some not. What we see in the outer world reflects the inner world. The eyes see what the mind holds.
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      Feb 25 2014: Wow Larry. I see now that we have opposing philosophical beliefs which might be causing our disagreement. You see, what I believe is : What our inner self is reflects what we see and experience. Now do we have opposing philosophical beliefs?
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      Feb 25 2014: Here's the deal Bren. If the video convinces me of your fact, I will reply. If not I will not. Thanks for your links anyway since all of us here will find them useful.
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    Feb 25 2014: Neutral thoughts are impossible because all thoughts have power.
    They will either make a false world or lead us to the real one. But thoughts cannot be without effects. As the world I see arises from my thinking errors, so will the real world rise before my eyes as I let my errors be corrected. My thoughts cannot be neither true nor false. They must be one or the other. What I see shows me which they are.
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      Feb 25 2014: 'What I see shows me which they are.'
      Just for the sake of argument Larry. Isn't there a Catch 21 there? We see something then we think it's 'true'. But you say 'My thoughts cannot be neither true nor false. They must be one or the other.' That means what we see is either again true or false.
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      Feb 25 2014: If you can make her change at will about 80% of the time that's a phenomenon! Mind control. And I've just replied to Larry:
      How do you know for sure what you are seeing is fact or real? Even the greatest magicians can produce visuals most of which cannot be proven illusion.

      You SHOULD start a convo about that spinner dancer Bren.
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          Feb 25 2014: lol I see what you mean buddy.
          I'm not sure now if the right-left brain theory is factual. It's an issue again in the scientific community or some forum so I don't want to say whether I'm left or right brain dominated.
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          Feb 25 2014: Ok ok. I'm just not sure when I will have time to try the video.
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    Feb 19 2014: There is not any reality outside our selves, our minds
    as a matter of fact, reality is nothing more then the way we refer to what we feel with our senses
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      Feb 19 2014: '...reality is nothing more then the way we refer to what we feel with our senses.'
      Thanks for joining Renee. If your senses convince you that something is reality but no one agrees with you it is real, then it's virtually not real or reality. Our senses can mistake reality.
    • Feb 25 2014: I agree Renee
      "Nothing exists outside the mind for it is the mind that makes it so"- Keith W Henline
  • Feb 19 2014: Is perception other than reality?
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      Feb 19 2014: Perception comes before reality or realization Bryan so they are different.
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    Feb 18 2014: How about something real simple. What is real exists and what is not real doesn't exist. Reality is changeless, it can not be changed. What is true can not be made false and what is false can not be made true. My perception does not change these facts. However my perception can and does distort these simple facts. Changing my association with reality will transform me with no effect whatsoever on what is real.
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      Feb 18 2014: 'What is real exists and what is not real doesn't exist.'
      Reality exists only in the present. All things we are seeing now will be gone in the future. How about things sure to be invented. They do not exist now but they will exist upon completion of invention.

      Reality is changeless, it can not be changed.
      Plants and animals are real. Scientists had changed some of their specie with mutation. Had they not changed reality?

      I say those just for the sake of argument sir.
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        Feb 18 2014: Poch,
        You say "reality is changeless, it can not be changed". "Plants and animals are real"

        It looks like you are saying that plants and animals are real and they do not change.

        Look around you Poch.....do you ever see people and other animals changing? Do you see plants changing? I think so. What are you trying to express with your statements, and how does it relate to your topic question?
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        Feb 18 2014: Poch,

        "All things we are seeing now will be gone in the future." Where will all those things go?

        How about things sure to be invented. We'll see.

        They do not exist now but they will exist upon completion of invention". Again we'll see.

        I think plants and animals are real, they are living forms from the content of life giving energy. We do not create energy, we can only bring it to a form or mutate existing energy. If you think science is the deal have them make a simple living blade of grass from scratch.

        For me this answers the question "Is perception more important than reality?" I say no, but perception of reality is important.
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    Feb 17 2014: Hello Poch,

    Should there be agreement with Yubal's reply perhaps we have explored and found the same thing. In your own exploration you might find the same thing. Perhaps we are pointing to something.

    I can't say I cited anyone's words specifically but they are nothing new, it is all borrowed. I guess what would prompt me to say that is the idea that the universe was created whole and complete in the very beginning. It's just unfolding by division through the appearance of time. If you explore you might conclude that same pattern within yourself and it will dawn on you there is nothing to get, you have been given the gift of everything, you are whole and complete. What is left to do but have some fun!!! Regards
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      Feb 17 2014: 'I can't say I cited anyone's words specifically but they are nothing new, it is all borrowed.'
      In one of my convos or chats about copyright, a lot of writers say that about individual content or articles.

      'I guess what would prompt me to say that is the idea that the universe was created whole and complete in the very beginning.'
      I agree. Even Solomon ranted: 'But man seeks too many inventions.'

      'What is left to do but have some fun!!!'
      Exactly what we should do but the majority couldn't because of world financial corruption. We can't have fun and starve at the same time.
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        Feb 17 2014: From what I have learned the individual has no claim to content but may claim individual form. I can not copyright the word car that's content, I may copyright XYZ123Scootabout that's form, if someone else has not filed for it. In patent law you can not patent an idea that's content, you may apply for patent on utility, design, method and apparatus, various form.

        I don't know about the majority I'm not a follower, I am responsible for one mind. What can I do for those who wish to worship paper symbols and metal trinkets?
  • Feb 15 2014: Poch,

    Let me join the general consensus. Your reality is dependent upon your perception. So your reality is different from mine.
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    Feb 15 2014: (@brendan)
    Sorry convomates. This is off topic and I can't find the reply thread!

    Question: "Can a return to intensive memory training help our cultures and perhaps help us survive as a species?"
    Ok. Got that Bren

    I forgot to tell you that where I live is just a few miles away from the Manila Yacht Club. Sorry the boats from my link are ugly to you and I understand why.
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    Feb 15 2014: We can perceive, or what we may call understand, others by mimicing their characters in our own minds.

    When we think we understand other people we feel some sympathy and compession for them, or hate them because we sense something in them, that opposes our own nature.

    In any case it is our internal theater of mind in which we direct and act at the same time. "Shouse, we must play and act everything we perceive in it, just in order to understand to some degree what is happening. "Self" has always a main part even when pushed to the edge of the stage.

    The effect we create in our actions, beyond our mind's control and its scenarios, is often surprising.
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      Feb 15 2014: '"Self" has always a main part even when pushed to the edge of the stage.'
      Yes Vera. The ego is always a part of it.

      'The effect we create in our actions, beyond our mind's control and its scenarios, are often surprising.'
      Often surprising and producing useful insights indeed!
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        Feb 15 2014: Just want to thank you for your attention, your "old pal" VN :)
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          Feb 17 2014: Giving you attention is always a pleasure dear Vera.
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        Feb 17 2014: You'll get a lot of it :)

        I'd like to show you my next new topic - if they'll let me publish it..
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    Feb 14 2014: Hi Poch,
    Many times, one's perception is one's reality....perception contributes to form one's reality.

    You write..."'So the point is that perception is something you have to constantly mange. Whose perception? Everyone’s—the C-level executives, the employees, the customer’s customer, and most important, your own".

    While we can certainly make an attempt to understand other people's perceptions and reality, I think/feel we can only "manage" our own perception. People can try to manage and control other people's perceptions....we see this all the time when someone is trying to convince us that s/he is "right".

    If you are only addressing executives, employees and work related situations, the boss can make it clear what is expected with work related experiences, and in my perception, the employee has an obligation to do the job as reasonably expected. The boss manages the work related expectations, and it is not necessary to change the employees perceptions.

    If the employee has different expectations/perceptions about what the job involves, the boss can make that clear. If I worked for someone, I would do my best to fulfill the obligations of the job, and it doesn't matter what my perceptions are. If I cannot fulfill the reasonable expectations of the boss, and my perceptions are different enough to cause continual unrest, I'd find another job.

    I see myself as trying my best to understand other people's perceptions and reality without imposing my own personal perceptions and reality.
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      Feb 14 2014: 'If I worked for someone, I would do my best to fulfill the obligations of the job, and it doesn't matter what my perceptions are. If I cannot fulfill the reasonable expectations of the boss, and my perceptions are different enough to cause continual unrest, I'd find another job...'
      Right Colleen. I think that is just what every employee should do.

      '...to understand other people's perceptions and reality without imposing my own personal perceptions and reality.'
      Yes. Even if we are sure that our own personal perceptions and reality is the right one, imposing it on others would negate the rightness ma'am.

      I suggest we all reply to Joshua's feedback which is very excellent.
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    Feb 14 2014: Poch, I fear I do not know what the focus is of your interest.

    What really happens is important- earthquakes, tidal waves, fires. and pestilence are real and can have devastating effects on vulnerable populations. It is also true that our perceptions translate what happens in the world for us and can make the same situation feel like positive to one and negative to another.

    What are you looking to explore with your query?
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      Feb 14 2014: 'And in fact, your reality will not be a happy one if you’re not managing perception.'

      I'm simply trying to explore if there's truth in that statement.
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        Feb 14 2014: Poch,
        It depends on how you are using and understanding the term Manage.

        It can mean "to handle or direct with a degree of skill; to make and keep submissive; to treat with care; to alter by manipulation; to succeed in accomplishing; to direct or carry on business or affairs;

        What is your perception of the word manage?
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          Feb 14 2014: The definition of 'manage' you gave includes just what my perception of the word is. Although I would like it applied generally rather than exclusively for business.
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        Feb 14 2014: It helps to be clear with your question, if you are seeking clear responses Poch.

        There is a difference between handling or directing something with skill, treat with care, and succeed in accomplishing.....

        AND/OR

        to make and keep submissive and alter by manipulation.

        You write..."'And in fact, your reality will not be a happy one if you’re not managing perception.'
        I'm simply trying to explore if there's truth in that statement."

        Your exploration would probably produce different "truth" depending on which elements of the definition of "manage", you choose to focus on.
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          Feb 14 2014: I don't see why my question is not clear when you already gave a clear response to it.
          When I said 'The definition of 'manage' you gave INCLUDES just what my perception of the word is.', what is included is the difference between handling or directing something with skill, treat with care, and succeed in accomplishing.

          Why do you keep saying most of my questions and replies are unclear when you keep giving clear answers!?
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        Feb 14 2014: Poch,
        I do not "keep saying" all your "questions are unclear".

        I am simply trying to discover your focus, just as Fritzie is trying to do, in an effort to be more clear with responses.

        I gave you a very general response "If you are only addressing executives, employees and work related situations", as you provide an example of in your introduction.

        In your comment above, you write..." Although I would like it applied generally rather than exclusively for business."

        You be more clear with me, and I'll be more clear with you.....is it a deal?
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      Feb 14 2014: Do you really think that male humans are the only ones who created culture, no female humans?
      Have you ever had a original idea before?
      If everyone only has thoughts that others created then how exactly did those original thought come about?
      Then you say "you started life totally dominated by others who form your lifetime perception or thought patterns" sure environment is a factor of the development of a person but it is not the only factor, therefor your not dominated by others you are simply consuming the information around you in order to apply it later, as you see fit. Also you can change you perception and thought patterns, it is one of the base ideas of Psychology.
      Then you say "unless you're mentally ill ,if born totally full and then loosing knowledge as you grew younger , then maybe a human's perception could be what you thought you thought." Which is something you should elaborate on, because it makes no sense.
      In fact reality is separate from perception. Just because people don't hear or see the tree fall in the forest, doesn't mean it didn't fall. This is similar to our previous conversation in that we can attempt to reach the truth but never actually know if we have reached it. All we can do is attempt to describe reality using the scientific method.
      Finally I have a question, do you think you are conscious if you deny reality, or better yet that there is a reality?
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          Feb 14 2014: Firstly, regarding the "testosterone man story". Testosterone is a chemical produced by the body to stimulate the development of secondary sex characteristics. So females also produce testosterone as well. Testosterone is therefore not a factor of "man created perception" and is irrelevant.
          How exactly is the human mind illogical?
          Are you saying that men are the only ones who progressed our race?
          I suggest you support your opinion with facts, otherwise it is simply speculation. My "opinion" however is based off of fields of science and is therefor more then a simple and baseless opinion.
          To be put simply you are saying that female humans are stupid, passive, and irrelevant things that simply go along with whatever male humans say.?.?.
          Also isn't it weird that you said that you said "There is no reality unless every so called conscious being agreed on that reality" and yet you refuse to accept the descriptions of reality that are proven?
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        Feb 14 2014: I avoided replying to Lilly because she made it a semi gender issue again.
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        Feb 14 2014: Hey Bren
        I'm not sure if you get my replies via Gmail so I sent you mail via TED. I've got a link you might like:
        Modular Ethos E30 easily converts into different types of boats
        http://www.gizmag.com/ethos-e30-modular-boat/30746/

        I lost the title of your own convo you want me to check. What's it again?
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          Feb 14 2014: The sex of the person is not relevant to the product. Science was created by humans, not just males. You prove something by using the scientific method.
          sci·en·tif·ic meth·od
          noun
          1.
          a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
          Things can be proven.... This isn't a opinion this is a fact. I touch something, that means that in my mind it is there. Two people touch something, this correlation proves that the thing is there. More proof is getting more people to touch the thing, this goes on to the point that the thing is accepted as reality. This applies to the scientific method because something is theorized and then tested again and again and again. This leads to the theory being accepted, and therefore proved.
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          Feb 15 2014: Lily, you lack knowledge, sound judgement, and expertise.
          First, just give me the half story.
          Then give me examples of how "The pencil that wrote all early everything in all man cultures was held and manipulated by man only". Not females.
          Seriously, are you saying that females are too stupid to understand the scientific structure of the human race.
          Science is not about feelings, by definition it's goal is to use facts to eliminate feelings from the equation.
          Then you say "Earth life might seem fuzzy and pleasant to you but the reality for most humans it is a nasty experience". I never said that earth was pleasant, which means you need to learn how to read. I can safely say that my perspective on reality is far more focused then yours, your only opinion is that males are bad and females are innocent, righteous and stupid. This is a very simplistic opinion but if you think it is true then support your argument with evidence.
          Honestly I just think that you are not one of the " few privileged by nature got to view it, tell it, and feel it" because apparently you are incapable of viewing (because if you could "view" you would see that your "view" is "fuzzy" and lazy), or tell (Because you lack the ability to understand topics, the supporting information, and the ability to speak). Then you say feeling (I am guessing your trying to be symbolic) which you most likely lack as well.
          Everyone's mind regulates its "forming", are you saying that yours does not. or are you trying to be intelligent. In which case you are still only half right. One can form the mind without your minds approval. Take yours mind for instance, what your mind is telling you right now is:
          (Your brain)"Lilly your wrong, stubborn and arrogant with no justification. And you are also just ignoring when you have been disproved. And then go on ranting about stuff that has been proven to be wrong. Lily, I think you should just stop and realize all the stuff you are ranting about is wrong.
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          Feb 16 2014: I ask you only to be considerate of others and civil to them. No one demands great intelligence from anyone here.