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Redefine the term "rehabilitation" in context of prison

The way I understand it, prisons are established for three reasons. 1. Deterrance: fear of getting caught keeps people from committing crime. 2) segregation: Keep people who have harmed others from doing it again. 3) Rehabilitation: the idea that the criminal will change in some way so to not break the law again.

I think the idea of deterrance is good. I also believe deparating criminals is a good idea, but ONLY if they endanger others. I do not believe the current prison system is concerned with rehabilitation. The term needs to be dropped, redefined, or removed. If anything, the prison does worse than rehabilitate.

Thoughts?

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    Feb 21 2014: Whilst we live in a world with a global military industrial complex misaligned to the significance of human targets and the induced poverty this brings, inequality will generate crime. Crime is a by-product of a universal war zone encapsulating and infecting our condition. The art of war is the art of crime, whilst, the art of both is the art of economics and the induced class-war being the fittest represents in the art of survival. Rehabilitation is a global problem demanding a global solution = equality.
    Thoughts?
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      Feb 21 2014: Bog Creature,
      I believe that everything is interconnected, so what you present certainly can be contributing factors regarding crime, and many other challenges in our world.

      My thoughts, after interacting with incarcerated men for years, is that survival tactics were learned and practiced as children. Many of us, as children, learn about cause and effect...with behaviors, there are consequences to ourselves and to others.

      One question I often asked offenders was...."what were you thinking or feeling when you committed the crime"? The answer often was "nothing"......"I wasn't thinking or feeling anything". There seemed to be a disconnect between the behavior, and thoughts or feelings at the time. After the fact, they often tried to justify and explain their actions with blame toward the victim, society, etc. It felt like in their mind, what they were doing was justifiable, and needed for their survival.

      Offenders usually have low self esteem and lack of confidence in themselves, so that might be an indication that in their heart and mind they do not feel equal to everyone else? They were often abused as children, and that experience may lead to a feeling of inequality and a need to survive in any way they can.
      Thoughts?
      • Feb 21 2014: Colleen,

        I think you are addressing something important... in your post above... would like to explore further why in the mind of individuals they justify, rationalize, and explain illogical stances in what seems perfectly logically propositions. Abraham J Twerski M.D. in Addictive Thinking: Understanding Self-Deception mentions how the rational thing to do from the addictive thinking point of view is to continue with their addictions! To the irrational the rational is irrational and the irrational is rational... So asking them to be rational sort of leads to more irrationality and for the rational to ask them to be irrational may seems rather irrational... In a way operating under the influence of mind altering stuff which influences the stuff can produces self-sustaining patters that are negative addictions are positive habits. There also exists some neutral behaviors that could be polarized a certain way. So for example the depressed have depressing thoughts which depresses them and leads to depressing thoughts. The optimistic have optimistic thought which lead to optimistic experiences that produces more optimism. Sometimes one can just try something out and discover that they actually like it. Of course sometimes expect play a role, even a determinant one.

        I think we could personalize how we go about considered this:

        "what were we thinking or feeling when we acted that way"?
        Will we say : "nothing, wasn't thinking or feeling anything".

        I agree sometimes there is a disconnect between the behavior, and thoughts or feelings. How do we close the gap?

        Some seek to justify and explain their actions one way or another rather than just recognize "It felt/thought like it was the thing to do".

        We usually act without real reasons and then try to justify it because recognizing the truth of the matters seems a preposterous indication that spirits, heart and mind may do all sort of things...
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          Feb 22 2014: Esteban,
          You say you "would like to explore further why in the mind of individuals they justify, rationalize, and explain illogical stances in what seems perfectly logically propositions..."

          I'm sure you know that when a person is trying to justify something to him/herself, or to others, s/he uses an argument and examples that support what s/he is trying to justify. These are old patterns for lots of people.

          I suggest the "gap" gets closed when people are clear with themselves and the message they wish to convey.

          I do not agree that we all "act without real reasons". When we "know" ourselves and are clear with ourselves and the message we wish to send, we do not "act without real reasons". That is part of what the cognitive SELF change teaches.
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          Feb 23 2014: Thoughts...
          If killing is right, we have failed to reconcile the evidence of death in the rear chamber of morality.

          Is a lack of financial literacy missing from a common progressive right in legal transparency of justice as a constant we can trust? Are financial hate crimes against different socioeconomic groups acceptable.



          Should work individually and universally equate to a common rate of exchange, given work seems to be the method and process by which wealth in exchange for work is distributed between members of a human community, state, nation, world?

          Is financial rehabilitation a socioeconomic problem for the global community, if a global economy is an economy every living human is sharing, how would you posit the distribution of wealth as a democratic alternative to the system of stagnation and excess?

          Hi Colleen, Esteban,

          Actions without thinking the consequences through I'm sure in a lot of cases as to do with a cycle of abuse, in which, abuse to children leads to the potential of becoming the abuser in adult life. My own experience of PTSD was akin to being just a passenger in my own body as the self is in flight from the episode of abuse in the rear chamber. It's a disconnect from a reasonable self, where the emotional self thrives to satisfy the adrenalin rush crime represents to some.
          Then there's crossing the Rubicon into group affiliation and the status this brings to the perpetuation of acts deemed acceptable to the groups dishonorable code of affiliation.

          I think we have to make the working life more attractive than the life of crime, whilst inequality does the opposite.
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          Feb 24 2014: Heard a sentence recently that made me think...instead of prison it was a sentence of a 150 hours unpaid work to a female accessory to a crime. What a great idea, to give working sentences instead of jail for the convicted of lesser crimes!

          I like the idea the person learns a job as a part of punishment and after serving the sentence is hopefully offered the job on a full time basis. I think for first time offenders, younger people this is a great opportunity to rehabilitate!
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          Feb 25 2014: Bog Creature,
          It is indeed a GREAT opportunity for offenders, the community, and is often based on the "Real Justice" model, where offenders are given community service and asked to repair the damage in various ways.

          We have a "diversion" program for first time teen offenders, and a "reparative" program for older offenders, both of which use the real justice model and encourage education, community service and reparative processes as appropriate.

          I know of one guy who worked with a town road crew to fulfill a community service requirement, and when the community service time was finished, they hired him:>)
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        Feb 22 2014: Hi Colleen,
        Excellent thoughts, resonating with your words. Should they be surviving in the modern age or living and what financial bridge do we utilize to define the difference between living and surviving in a humane civilization, if quality of life is a principle of autonomy we all share?
        My direction of thought with regard to equality is the equality of pay, the equality of opportunity and the transparency with which this is delivered through the education process.

        Thoughts...
        Is crime a revolution against injustice experienced in an early stage of development?

        The Prison
        Life is a natural prison we cannot see the true scale of, yet, if we could see beyond the physical perception of order, the reality might define a layer of beauty beyond the physical senses of the common kind, a shared map of reasonable awareness within the existential layer of life as a space time continuum.

        The geometry of the mind is a natural chamber of conscious time, space perpetual absorption, a stream of common / unique natural energy in motion, but, what type of animal should the human bee in a civilised future?

        Is there a real enemy in the universe, outside the experience of our own memory (us)?
        What is a civilised future equals what is a common natural awareness of self in relation too, continuum in the universal 4th dimension appreciation of law as a meaning to life as opposed to survival.
        If educationally law as no meaning to the quality of life as a financial contract of liberty we share between birth and death, what is the purpose of law?

        Is knowledge a visual experience we should all be able to look at in a rational way, is knowledge wealth?

        Is knowledge a law we can look at in a more comprehensive way?
        • Feb 22 2014: Bog,

          Life is a natural sanctuary some can see the true scale of... when some see beyond the physical perception of order, the reality might define a layer of beauty beyond in and within the physical senses of the common kind, a shared map of reasonable awareness within the existential layer of life as a space time continuum of enduring moments possibilities and realities. Of course right now in this life-time we got a sort of definitional situation taking place where individual choose which way to embrace and habilitate. In actuality there is just one outcome ... some choose to comprehensively comprehend it and some chose something else.

          Please note how I redefined what you proposed life to be...
          What is it that you truly want life to be?

          On what followed the thoughts line above: those things are just seeking to be part of individuals consciousness through all sort of schemata's and schemes... Experiences in an early stage of development can become the established thinking patters if the thinker allows it... just keep in mind what it is you keep in mind, why, the alternatives and what it is that you truly want to share your life with...
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          Feb 23 2014: Oh my goodness Bog Creature......so many qustions.....so few clear answers!

          In an attempt to stay with the topic idea (Redefine the term "rehabilitation" in context of prison"), I perceive ALL of your questions and thoughts to be important and relevant.

          Those who are incarcerated have different backgrounds (although sometimes similar), different experiences (although sometimes similar), different perspectives about life (although sometimes similar), etc......just like those of us who have NOT experienced being incarcerated.

          I observe that EVERYONE's exploration of the life adventure may be different, while sharing similarities. It seems like one of the challenges, is that those on the outside who are free, have more possibilities to choose from when it comes to making changes in their lives, while those incarcerated have fewer possibilities.

          So, if we are seeking rehabilitation programs, they have to be brought to, and offered in the facilities. Unfortunately, I've witnessed situations where self help books are taken away from inmates because there is a rule that they cannot have books in their cell!!! Those kinds of "rules" are counter productive.

          Unfortunately, choices for the inmates are decreased because of administrators, and the rules of the facility, which in some cases is needed...like behaviors that threaten others for example.

          Somewhere along the line, there has to be reasonable, logical, applicable rules and standards for administrators and inmates. That balance seems to be elusive in our facilities as they are now.
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        Feb 22 2014: Thoughts...
        To what extent do we as humans respect the rules that govern us, if we cannot see what that means within the perimeters of our own awareness as consciousness responding to death within the subconscious micro pathway of unity within our own common and unique condition as perpetual motion?

        To what extent is war a copycat crime?

        Are all deaths preserved within the fabric of time and if so what does it tell us about truth and right when one human kills another?

        Hating oneself and hating others is the worst type of hell, abuse as forced us to share.

        Do religious people worship weapons more than they worship God?

        Violence is the wrong way to express anger, is what I learnt about anger on reflection given the opportunity?

        Is the chain reaction of violence something we should understand and learn to deal with in a more humane way? Why don’t the state and the public utilize soft power to defuse anger that can erupt into violence?

        If law as a rule is a basic respect for human life as an individual and universal duality of right how do you teach respect or define a common appreciation of what appropriate justice is?
        • Feb 22 2014: Bog,

          'within the fabric of time' ... which particular time did you consider when you made that statement? Oh did you also consider all the possible times contained in a single transitory moment and the other possibilities and realities ?

          Yes the state and the public ought to utilize soft power to encapsulate, appropriately deal with certain stuff... in response to your question why? well because they don't think to do what ought to be done and just do what it is they think ought to be done ...

          Your last question is a good one...
          You asked:
          If law as a rule is a basic respect for human life as an individual and universal duality of right how do you teach respect or define a common appreciation of what appropriate justice is?

          Make them live forever experiencing the repercussions of their individual actions in ever increasing magnitude... sooner or latter each will realize 'hey it's better to be better'. It seems some still have to learn that insight...and behave as they ought to behave to be better...

          Note that when the individual truth embraces the universal truth as their individual truth the distinctive duality individual-universal 'vanishes' leaving just 'the truth'.

          Also note that the distinctive blur underlying the question :
          how do you teach ... something
          when the activity actually involves each learning ... something
          So did you teach it or did they learn it... or did you and them shared an experience and adventure each teaching-learning- and a bit more...
      • Feb 22 2014: Colleen,

        Yes I know how some individuals "uses an argument and examples that support what s/he is trying to justify" rather than resort to more appropriate evaluations and better patterns. I also know that appropriate arguments and examples can basically eliminate the 'gap'... heck its even possible to push some into a complete cognitive dissonance where their argument serves to invalidate their argument while at the same time validating and conceding the counter-position that happens to be self-validating and a bit more. Of course a rational approach to irrational behaviors is a bit irrational and an irrational behavior to an irrational behavior can yield more irrationality; akin to twisting the twisted yielding a more twisted thing, still if one twists the twisted just right one ends up with a straight thing. Of course some find all the twisting and maneuvering rather meaningless, especially when it's forcing them into a position they will not accept.

        For those who understand no need to explain,
        for those who won't understand no explanation will do.

        Anyways I am wondering out loud what it takes to get some into that uncomfortable stretch position that helps to extends the abilities pass the point of discomfort into healthy enjoyment. (without disrupting or severing the muscle ligament or causing sever damage).

        Upon first reading your post I thought to ask: "who truly know themselves completely and clearly"?

        My comment that "We usually act without real reasons and then try to justify"... sought to convey the idea that sometimes we just do stuff and then try to figure out why we did it... in conjunction with the fact that we sometime don't clearly know ourselves and a couple of other notions that have to do with espoused theory, theory in practice, the reflective practitioner and a notion I been developing known as the 'Preflective practitioner' - that incorporates consciously guiding actions based upon directing beliefs and story languages in use.
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          Feb 22 2014: Esteban,
          You ask..."Upon first reading your post I thought to ask: "who truly know themselves completely and clearly"?

          We can "know" ourselves at any point in time at any level of "knowing". In my perception, it is a life long process because as we change, there is usually knew information and new "knowing".
      • Feb 23 2014: Colleen,

        It seems to me that knowing oneself completely and clearly is at best just an ideal... it's an ongoing process that has new information added constantly... well in some cases the new information hardly changes from moment to moment as the individual is incapable of learning a thing... of course in some cases the new information changes and redefines almost everything from moment to moment as the individual is capable of learning a thing or two ... One ought to wonder how completely and clearly one actually knows oneself (and others)...

        Beware on which case you think to stand, where you actually stand, where you want to stand, where one ought to stand ... and the congruency between them all... I am aware that statements applies to 'each', 'you' 'me' 'we' 'others sentient beings, creatures of all kinds and forms '.

        Still wondering about what it takes to get past that uncomfortable stretch position that keeps some constrained within what they think and know to be and how to extends the abilities pass the point of present comfort zone into healthy enjoyment. (taking care of avoiding harm, causing damage, disrupting or severing the ligaments to appropriate ways of being). Any thoughts ideas or recommendations?
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          Feb 23 2014: We seem to agree Esteban, that learning about ourselves is an ongoing process. Each individual explores the process differently, although many of our thoughts, feelings, ideas, perspectives, perceptions and beliefs may intertwine.

          I suggest that moving beyond the comfort zone often takes a "wake up call" for some people. You are probably aware that people often do an exploration on some level when there is a trauma in their lives. Trauma takes one out of a comfort zone, and perhaps motivates exploration.

          You ask...."Any thoughts ideas or recommendations?"

          The first step, is that someone needs to want to change something in his/her own life. The process cannot be forced, and that action will often push a person further away from an exploration. People need to be ready, willing and able to explore in themselves. That is the only time people will be willing to even consider thoughts, ideas or methods presented by someone else.
      • Feb 23 2014: Yes.

        THIS IS A WAKE UP CALL :-)

        Now lets jointly proceed to consider thoughts, ideas or methods presented here, by you me and others.

        I am seeking to understand how to catalyze the exploration and motivate it... specifically in the unwilling; those who do not want to change something and who better change something... I agree with your assessment that the process'cannot be forced, and that action will often push a person further away from an exploration"... I also realize that particular process will take place with or without individual consent where the individual does hold a limited say into the matter... in other words 'the work' will be done with or without the individual willing participation, though what the individual chooses to do will have implications for the individual and others. I think you would agree that 'teasing someone into the process' may be risky business as well as rather effective when the rapport between participants can contain the nudges as friendly measures rather than provocative maneuvers. Of course some 'tightly wound up time bombs' can be set off by almost anything, and everything, even the inaction can be the triggering mechanism. What I am seeking to understand is how to effectively deal with such 'tightly wound up time bombs' to catalyze, diffuse, neutralize, redirect and even beneficially canalize the contained energy.

        Yea it would be nice if people where to be ready, willing and able to explore the experiences before getting into deep waters because being carried by the undercurrents, still you likely know that the only time people can act is in the now, ready or not, willingly or unwillingly, each must choose what to do now... and now... and now... So please consider thoughts, ideas or methods presented by each.

        I have had the urge to state : Now that all of my debts have been payed as previously agreed... lets jointly proceed to consider thoughts, ideas or methods presented here, by you me and others.

        NOW WHAT's NEXT
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          Feb 24 2014: As I said in a previous comment Esteban, this may be a wake-up call for you, and some of us have been addressing these issues for many years.

          As I've told you, I volunteered for years in a shelter for women and children, a family center, and with the dept. of corrections.

          NOW WHAT's NEXT for YOU Esteban? What have you done.....what are you doing now.....what are you planning to do in the future to address these issues.....other than preaching about it?
      • Feb 25 2014: I am relieved that my debts have been payed as previously agreed...
        Yes this may be wake-up call for me you and everyone...
        I certainly hope each and everyone make amends once and for all...
        wether they choose to do it .... is now up to them...
        I just realize that I too volunteered for year and years to address these issues...
        Now for me its time to volunteer for better chores and activities...

        Why is it you choose to employ the words you employed
    • Feb 21 2014: Bog,

      What does the global situation demand? How does it demand it? from what you said I would like to highlight and focus on "encapsulating and infecting our condition" ... viral propagation of better ways that encapsulate and 'infect' every ways making everything better :-)

      we live in a world with much diversity and possibilities that invites each to cultivate this or that... question is what will each choose to feed, and cultivate with their individual actions. I noticed what story-lines you put forth and choose to respond with this lines because I would rather cultivate a simple aligned significant human productive bridge where singularities are valued and appreciated to generate more significant 'matters' and useful by-products of universal and individual benefit. The art of graceful peace driving the thriving survival and evolution of the better ways. Equality? Appropriate equality! Evidently some possibilities are better as just possibilities ...
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        Feb 22 2014: Hi Esteban,

        How would you define appropriate equality, appropriate law...appropriate to who and why?

        Who owns the copyright for the meaning of law as a process?
        • Feb 22 2014: Bog,

          A recurrent issue in many interchanges and conversations over definitions / redefinitions involves a shift from a-'what' be done' to b-'who did it'. In a way this shift is from an objective stance into a subjective position. It is also a shift into what someone thinks to be (rather than what actually happens to be (- almost sent 'things' rather than 'thinks') ). I trust you and others see the difference in that. There are several possibilities when the focus be into what someone thinks to be; which influence/determine what it is that we be focussing into. When the focus be into the things that be; 'what be' influence/'determine' what it is that we be focussing into. Asking - What determines/makes the veracity of a statement valid? be quite different from - Who determines the veracity of a statement ? (with the complementing question - how do they do it?).

          WHEN 'what someone thinks to be' appropriately corresponds to 'the things that be'...
          ( that is when 'this' appropriately corresponds to 'that'
          . that is when 'variable V' appropriately corresponds to 'constant C' )
          THEN differentiating between them two becomes a bit of a pedantic exercise, for 'this' and 'that' actually denote the same thing, yea using different words while for all practical purposes being identical while still distinctly different. When a variable corresponds to just one constant value, for all practical purposes the variable becomes identical to the constant while being distinctly different. The fact of having the ability to change and choosing to remain constant differs from remaining constant dew to not having the ability to change; though the two may seem identical fixed. A variable can contain a constant and a bit more while a constant can only contain a constant.

          I would define:
          - 'appropriate equality' as treating each as each ought to be treated.
          - 'appropriate law' rules and regulations that be sustainable-desirable-congruent with life ways

          (no more space to respond)
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        Feb 22 2014: Beautiful response Esteban, I'll chew it over and check in later!...Thanks

        Feel free to add another strand, there's plenty of space below this snippet...especially interested in that continuation of a response with regards to the appropriate rule of law as a constant to the value of common awareness, what we share we grow from...potentially!

        Is Respect not the fundamental purpose of the law, a respect for all life?

        Is this place we reside in and call home a universal prison colony for human inhabitants...you call it a sanctuary, but, define sanctuary, for who for what and for when?
        • Feb 22 2014: Bog,

          I am glad you liked the response.

          In regards to the appropriate rule of law as a constant to the value of common awareness, what we share we grow from...potentially...

          I would posit 'the diamond rule' - do what ought to be done as it ought to to be done
          this is actually a notion I created based on taking the golden rule a step further... and ensuring beneficial kind ways... Employing the golden rule of 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you' can open the door to nastiness, rather than only allow niceness. Yea I know that the nice people would think everyone wants to be nice, and to them the golden rule makes perfect sense... but what of those who would have other do nasty things to them and who would justify their nastiness to others by using the golden rule? One way to ensure only niceness involves 'the diamond rule' - do what ought to be done as it ought to to be done. This diamond rule also incorporates the sage's wisdom. Of course implicit in the directive is that one understand and knows what happens to be, the possibilities, what ought to be, and what to do with it all. -do what ought to be done as it ought to to be done- simple words that incorporate quite a bit, from complex systems, circumstances and individual actions to repercussions and implications of actions (and no actions). I can even condense that directive a bit more... into one word : LOVE!

          Someone once told me that the more rules, regulations, notions one need the further from understanding one was. A filtering notion that has helped me discern stuff involves employing sustainable-deisrable-congruent with life ways. It kind of gives each what they want while giving each the same thing --- sustainable-deisrable-congruent with life ways ---. Notice how life passes the test--- and how life gives life to life and though life it gives death both life and death to death...
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        Feb 24 2014: I would posit 'the diamond rule' - do what ought to be done as it ought to to be done

        What ought to be done and what is done is about an impairment in the psyche, but, the psyche is responding to the evidence the environment is transferring, our disconnect is between what is done and what it means, until what it means becomes attractive as evidence we all share, how would anyone know objectively what ought to be done?

        The real diamond is that of the light years reflecting upon the membrane of each eye, the common light of human unity with something I recognize as wealth, a universal membrane of reality in motion, a layer of universal equality, a badge of common significance in the credibility of anything we choose as law which makes it feel right to our sense and sensibilities.

        What ought to be done…End the arms race concerned with human targets, adapt the global military to an external threat based potential scenario to engage with the distinction between what is certain and what is unknown. The human is not the enemy the unknown is the enemy we cannot see. Our attention is repressively internalized to defending concepts which have no translatable, transferable value to a progressive future on an individual and universal scale.

        What ought to be done…Adapt the Global economy to distribute the meaning of wealth in a more egalitarian way to end the reality of crime in all of our lives. The real crime is the money system and its failure to deliver value in exchange for contribution tendered for reward. Increase the volume of real opportunities in life to exceed the number of humans.
        • Feb 24 2014: Bod,

          Rather than seek to change the system and get into the system simply 'work' alongside the system to create an alternative...that will attract people and which people may adopt and embrace... just realize that that is what is happening right now! In actuality one system encapsulates and contains the other... and it would be better to stay out of the confinement facility... though some choose to go there for all kinds or reasons...

          Knowing objectively what ought to be done be the simple part, getting some to recognize and do it - now there be the challenge.

          "the credibility of anything we choose as law which makes it feel right to our sense and sensibilities" corresponds to a subjective appreciation of an objective reality... which if done appropriately can lead to credibility... well at least credibility in the eyes of those who know and embrace the truth of the matters.

          What ought to be done…establish a peace race that includes everyone concerned with human wellbeing, adapt the global system to deal with external and internal threats based on potential scenarios and real one so as to effectively engage and neutralize and contain the pathogens within distinct innocuous structure that serve to even get benefits from them things in known and unknown ways. what is certain and what is unknown really may matter little ... as humans know that the unknown may bring along the friend we ought to get to know. Beware that our concepts may induce our attention to repressively internalize and defend agains concepts which have no translatable, transferable value to a progressive future on an individual and universal scale... just as they can serve to do the exact opposite... and prevent us from recognizing that which will benefit and change us and everything else. The key resides in which concepts we happen to choose to embrace, cultivate and hold.



          to the better w
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        Feb 24 2014: What ought to be done…
        I see death in many ways, but, in continuum we do not die, since, we have transferred what we are to those around us, hence, how we represent law (legal awareness worldwide) as a rule we understand is not beyond comprehension if we can make law a visual representation of meaning (in which for all intent and purpose, the human is the law), we can visually engage with the entirety of deaths our so called laws have historically defended, the real property in knowledge, our subconscious imprints with age and our reasonable experience of it.

        The human is the law, the real property in wealth, each judicial chamber is the pinnacle of intrinsic value and a commodity unlike the physical property (which as more laws protecting it) to be bought and sold in the criminal market system of greed. Socially engineered drones fed into the wheels of production to sustain the idealized representation of wealth as an object we should all want to aspire too. B*******, if wealth is an attraction only a few realize, how is it moral or of value to the meaning of rule in law? Who owns the copyright of the rule, how should we measure work as a value in a progressive future modern age?

        If reality is not the natural prison we understand the real dimensions off, how, can we be free individually and universally?

        Should we preserve death in the way we were once supposed to preserve life, this is the real evidence children in school should be looking at if we want to change the future of violence.
        How should we represent a respect for life that is universal in the applicable significance of its purpose? What is the purpose of law beyond its ability to select and focus on particular crime, whilst, ignoring other crimes in the financial quandary of universal inequality?
        • Feb 24 2014: Bog,

          The human be the human, the law be the law... beware of the original temptation dressed up anew... Everyone can attain righteousness if they embrace righteous ways... beware of the temptation that seeks to equate bad with good rather than recognize good as good and bad as bad... some ways are better than other ways... from what you said I think you will understand that the natural be just a part of the real dimensions ... you might even understand the existence of many possible natural states ... even possible states within possible states within possible states... and realities within realities within realities that have multiple possible states within possible states within possible states... The pathway into prison is also the pathway out of prison some can traverse it freely for they understand the real dimensions off, how, can we be free individually and universally...

          Yes we should preserve death in the way we were once supposed to preserve life (remember that life gives live and life is also the death of death and what gives everything life), this is the real evidence children in school should be looking at... want to change the future? what kind of future do you want?

          y : How should we represent a respect for life that is universal in the applicable significance of its purpose?
          By living and giving life to universal applicable significances and purposes.

          Y (sort of): What is the purpose of law beyond its ability to select and focus on particular acts, whilst, ignoring other acts in the financial quandary of universal inequality?

          Get each to learn to pick the valuable lively fun benevolent ways and reap in abundance what each sows...what kind of future do you want?
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        Feb 24 2014: A rule is a system of measure and in terms of transparency the only scale we can measure rules of law by is the temporal jurisdiction of motion to which all lives are naturally interconnected.

        You said the human is the human, the law is the law, and this comes across as bit black and white if you don’t mind me saying.

        The human and right is a temporal combination of both as is the citizen and the right. Hence, the right is a temporal awareness of unity as truth in motion, between the significance of the individual right and the credibility of purpose in the universal right. Is this not an awareness of the interrelated nature of systems and how we organize them to influence accessible participation with a common good, as opposed to righteousness through an uncommon God?

        I don’t know what part of an education system law as a rule is covered in, the definition of what it means as human action and non-action…any thoughts?

        Rehabilitation is about the temporal attractiveness of parallel judicial paths of reasonable awareness and I would imagine many inmates have absolutely no idea what the law really means, other than through the direct instruments of law, they are familiar with, the courts, the police, and the government and the guns and the bombs and the ever more horrendous ways to kill. When should it stop, do you think it is possible for a species to take control of its own bad nasty habits in one day in the future?

        When is enough, enough, can this species stop killing in the progressive future of a common day?

        How do we examine the effect of our own behavior in a transparent and reasonably fair way?

        Stop killing US with Guns, stop killing anyone with guns, stop using the guns to oppress, put all the money into creating universal guns to defend a human and species sanctum with guns on the outside in the external environment looking out? All existing global weapons of any description are now surplus to requirement, antiques with a higher value in the future?
        • Feb 24 2014: Bog,

          Why is it that the measure you choose to use resides within time? Seems to me that a variable temporal jurisdiction would vary with time... I prefer to use an atemporal measure where an absolute remains constant rather than variable; it makes for much simpler dialogues. To use the black and white analogy in a much simpler form we could dialogue in terms of light, or truth. (dialoguing in terms of darkness or lies makes for a much much more difficult dialogue). Those who know the truth can determine the veracity of a statement... were as those who know the lie can only determine that the veracity of that statement is false without necessarily being able to determine which statement is true. Yes I did say the human is the human, the law is the law, white is white and black is black, light is light and darkness is darkness (or the absence of light). Note that those who exist in the light can experience darkness through the absence of light ... whereas those who exist in the darkness can't know the light unless they come to exist in the light.

          I think you bend over backwards to put forth the notion of an uncommon God... rather than just recognize that the uniting common universal right stems from God. Personally I accept God existence while recognizing that others may not. Kind of like with the truth of the matter... some accept the truth of the matter and some reject the truth of the matter.

          I do think that it is possible for beings be it individual or collectives to take control of their habits... one day at a time :-)

          y: How do we examine the effect of our own behavior in a transparent and reasonably fair way?

          observe it as it is, as it could could had been, as it ought to be with this and that behavior...
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        Feb 26 2014: Is this fragile membrane of reality we share, you call sanctuary, the gateway into the inner sanctum and is the air stale in your misery or fresh as a mountain stream? I am no more, no less than you are, we share a common ride, a common lot, but, where do we want this ride to take us and should it work in the universal exchange, converting the imprints of ancestral public space into private chambers of our own subconscious data streams of cause and effect, if humans are the law to which I am sure they are, how do you represent that through the utilization of weapons or the existence of education?

        Why is it that the measure you choose to use resides within time?

        Time is the natural constant rate of measurement there’s no variation in the law or the human other than the common effects of age time as on the lives of inmates and out-mates of the human condition. Is not the sentence itself a temporal constant in the judicial process, where’s the variation? Find me an inmate who doesn’t understand the reality of time in relation to incarceration.

        Intelligence is temporal where all action is based on the feedback loop between the consciousness in motion and the subconscious tail of the human lifespan. The human confronts all situations thinking in two alternative ways. Thinks fast to solve problems or thinking at a more considered rate to solve problems. The child victim of abuse suffering the effects of trauma are in constant flight within the effects of ptsd, hence, the duality of thought ability is impaired. Whilst all humans make mistakes, the abused child is going to continue making mistakes at a higher rate as a result of their impaired condition.

        Give me an example of anything you believe to be atemporal other than God?

        No bending involved what so ever, the light, as the dark is a harmonious blanket we all wear together in the reality of our common union.
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          Feb 26 2014: I agree Bog Creature....it would be difficult to find an inmate who does not understand the reality of time in relation to incarceration.

          I also agree that humans face situations in different ways, and the child victim of abuse may experience the trauma in different ways throughout his/her life, therefor impacting their ability to make informed choices.
        • Feb 26 2014: Bog,

          Thank you for those words and ideas which I have read and think to understand whilst holding that other alternate notions do exist.

          Is it actually the case that time happen to be the natural constant rate of measurement? Is it true that ' there’s no variation in the law or the human other than the common effects of age time as on the lives of inmates and out-mates of the human condition'?

          The sentence itself can be a temporal variant in the judicial process... whilst it's true that once uttered it be one of those things with a beginning that persists and impacts what's to come, it's also true that anew utterance can render it innocuous... and impacts what's to come... what be and even what used to be... from an atemporal constant perspective things are what things are, intelligence and actions are based on intelligence and action., where 'the constant' involves 'a variable' that can vary and/or remains constant while still being the same constant variable. Seems that the constraints of present language system interfere with appropriately sharing the notion... The human thinking of some humans is constrained to two alternative ways, sometimes even to just one ... when in reality human thinking has many possibilities some of which are much better to employ. SOME victim of abuse and duality of thought have temporary impaired abilities... the same can be said of perpetrators... and of everyone... sure these will continue making mistakes at a higher rate as a result of their impaired condition UNLESS they and/or others introduce something that renders mistakes innocuous or even transforms them lessons into guiding insights. Personally I would abstain from emitting a condemnatory sentence towards the victims.

          I believe what we each choose to do now becomes a singularity which sets once and for all what we each chose to do... each action becomes an atemporal event. Of course from the atemporal view things are what things are. Some possibilities be atemporal
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        Feb 26 2014: I accept the ‘belief’ in the idea behind God existence, but, the evidence is yet to be revealed 

        The common good is not about God, it’s about the free thinking human beings with the right to associate themselves with this belief or that belief as they choose. Politics and social justice is there to support and protect all beliefs, hence, to many inmates God is uncommon and I don’t see the problem in saying so in the context of rehabilitation…I don’t think the conversion rate of inmates yielding to your righteous light ways to get out of incarceration is solving crime, historically speaking!

        This blood-stained rock we call home, you call sanctuary is an education of many kinds, but, the patterns of behavior linked to the failure of ‘Thou shalt not kill’ are an on-going litany of offenses, creating patterns of death in continuum. To study the patterns of death in continuum is an educational appreciation of a reality we share with the ancestors of our human condition. The history of death as a visual language is a journey into the inner sanctum of our present and ancestral behaviors. How we appreciated the patterns of death might illuminate the ways in which we access the patterns of life as a meaning.
        • Feb 26 2014: Bog,

          I am much more interested in creating patterns of life in continuum ... To study the patterns of life in continuum is an educational appreciation of a reality we share with the ancestors of our human condition. The history of life as a visual language is a journey into the inner sanctum of our present and ancestral behaviors. How we appreciated the patterns of life might illuminate the ways in which we access the patterns of life as a meaning.

          I realize that the faking of conversion to get out of incarceration adds to the litany of offenses and isn't solving crime ... just as redefining the term "rehabilitation" ... needs to be considered given the facts of what happens there is there a innocuous reoccurring habilitation taking place there? I hope you appreciate me taking and using your words with a few modifications... in a way it sought to give you a bit of food for thought into what it is you choose to invoke... Evidently I prefer to call upon life and God ... some prefer to call upon other possibilities, which I think ought to remains as possibilities...
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      Feb 23 2014: Bog Creature,
      This is a response to the part of your recent comment which begins...
      "Hi Colleen, Esteban,"

      You write..
      "Actions without thinking the consequences through I'm sure in a lot of cases as to do with a cycle of abuse, in which, abuse to children leads to the potential of becoming the abuser in adult life."

      Absolutely, which is why I brought the idea of thinking about consequences and abuse into this discussion. Many times, with abuse, children block out thoughts and feelings as a way of trying to protect themselves from the trauma. It could be a conscious, or subconscious effort to survive. Consequently, they do not learn how to evaluate information for the purpose of making informed choices. As you insightfully say, it is a disconnect from a reasonable self or dissociation from that which causes pain. Unfortunately, many of those who are incarcerated have been abused in various ways when they were children.

      I venture to say there is NO little child on this earth who chooses to be abused. It is something that is out of their control, and the ramifications of abuse are far reaching. If we do not understand this one factor with many of those who are incarcerated, there is no chance for change.
      • Feb 23 2014: Colleen,

        There is ALWAYS chance for change! I am glad you put forth an example of one choice that children have and choose to make to protect themselves... Of course the disconnect may eventually need to be reconnected and effectively dealt with to form a reasonable self. If we do not understand this one factor then change, while possible, will likely be rather complicated and the chance for change slimmer...

        Edited to add a response to the comment below.

        My comment put forth the notion how children DO have options to deal with a situations for example some can resort to disassociations which latter needs to be resolved and reintegrated...the case I was putting forth is that individuals have choices. There is ALWAYS chance for change!

        Now to deal directly with the comment below..
        Technically the first sentence of what Colleen stated is actually true AND it has little to do with what I actually stated! The second claim which directs to stop doing something may convey to some the impression of an action taking place that needs stopping. The astute reader will not be seduced by such ploys. Finally the third sentence seem to me to be something the writer of that message needs to apply to themselves.

        Edited to add
        The astute reader will see into the truth of these matters and perceive who promotes what... each is accountable for every thought/feeling/act ... including what they choose not to do. Each should apply what they say to others ... to themselves ... they may learn quite a bit that way... I see what you say to me applies to you... now recognize the truth of the matter and learn what ought to be learned...

        Yes each demonstrates with their words what they actually know about this topic... some demonstrate the little they know using little words and some demonstrate how much they know appropriately choosing words.
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          Feb 24 2014: Esteban,
          I DID NOT put forth an example of children making a choice to be abused. STOP twisting my words to try to support your argument. You continue to discredit YOURSELF!
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          Feb 24 2014: Esteban,
          Regarding your edit:
          Children sometimes DO NOT have options. I agree....the astute reader will not be seduced by such ploys as you are demonstrating Esteban.

          When you continue to say that abused children have choices you....

          1) deny yourself accurate information from which you might learn something, and/or with which you might actually be helpful to the cause.

          2) you reinforce a common practice of abusers, by saying the children have choices, or they asked for it, etc.

          3) you demonstrate how little you actually know about this topic.
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        Feb 24 2014: Hi Colleen,

        Children block out thoughts and feelings as a way of trying to protect themselves, but, this process is the natural autonomic response to trauma called freezing I believe. In this state the ability to think rationally is severely impaired as the child carries the scars of the trauma...they are victims of a world which victimizes them as they grow blinded without direction.

        I think the autonomic response to trauma flips reality on its head between the conscious and subconscious function. The consciousness is drained of power as its objective is to protect the part of the subconscious damaged by trauma. I think the mind is just coasting on reduced functional power as the senses are heightened to the potential and threat of copycat trauma.

        Colleen said-
        "If we do not understand this one factor with many of those who are incarcerated, there is no chance for change"...excellent, I totally agree we have to look at rehabilitation outside the prison to manage the huge cost of what goes in. What type of rehabilitation outside the prison to curb trauma to children do you feel is viable?
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          Feb 24 2014: Hi again Bog Creature,
          I agree that the process of blocking out thoughts and feelings is a natural response to trauma. It is similar to the body going into shock with a physical trauma, and blocking out as much pain as possible. Sometimes, there is a blockage of both physical and mental pain.

          You ask what type of rehabilitation to curb trauma with children? I say stop the abuse of children.....seems like an overwhelming task!
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        Feb 26 2014: I second that answer!

        Do you think the devolution of power as control in peoples lives would transform negative behavioral patterns into positive ones and to what extent is financial scarcity creating anxieties and pressures which lead to abuse.

        What is abuse, but, the utilization of one individuals power against another a misinterpretation of power in the eyes of the lawful. I know from experience, whilst, individuals who abused me were in a position of power, I look back and consider that they were also helpless, pathetic and unaware of the long term effects of their behavior was having...which doesn't make it right.

        We could do with some famous people backing a public campaign to confront the damage abuse is doing, it's everyone's future that is interconnected! Such a campaign might also illuminate to children being abused, something wrong and long lasting is happening to them.
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          Feb 26 2014: Yes Bog Creature, I believe if there was less need to try to control other people, there might be a better chance for change.

          I've mentioned this before, and it is beneficial to mention again.....there is a book and workbook called "Houses of Healing"..."A prisoner's Guide to Inner Power and Freedom", by Robin Casarjian. This book/workbook/program has been used in at least a couple states as a requirement for parole.

          The "power" most offenders demonstrate is not real power, as you seem to know, and when they realize that, sometimes there is change.

          I agree that those who abuse are often lacking in self esteem and self respect, feeling helpless and unaware of the long term effects of their behaviors on themselves and others.

          My father was a violent abusive person, and my mother was kind and unconditionally loving. I saw him as the weaker person, and her as the stronger person.

          I believe there IS a campaign happening right now, because we are at least speaking about it. When I was a kid, nobody wanted to talk about it, there was no place to go, no place to get support. Now we have shelters, education for law enforcement authorities, victims, offenders and the general public. We are FINALLY starting to address the issue on several different levels, which needs to happen, and we can do more!
        • Feb 26 2014: Bog,

          Bluntly put... rather than confront war... promote peace!

          Promoting the idea of meeting (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent just doesn't seem to lead to peace... I sometimes will present a cognitive dissonant situation to people as a means to get them to realize something which will lead to a transcendental change in them... sometimes the appreciate it and value it and sometimes they dismiss it employing other schemata... To this day when I ask someone "Does it seems logical to them that by focusing on bad they will find something good"? Most say something along the lines that's just absurd. Indeed, only by focus on what be good does one find something good! Of course when I ask them "Does it seems logical to them that by focusing on the problem they will find some good solution"? Most say something along the lines that's sounds logical. Hope you see the cognitive dissonance in them two questions, and how it is only by focusing on a certain kind of possibility that good things emerge.

          Yes, we could do with some famous people backing a public campaign to promote peace and better ways!

          Colleen,

          I agree with the notion that the "power" some demonstrate/seek is not real power, and when they realize that, sometimes they choose to change. I also agree with the idea "We are FINALLY starting to address the issue on several different levels, which needs to happen, and we can do more"!

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