Work on my own, Free Lance Author

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Do yout think that marriage is forever?

or personal relationships (all) have an expiration date?

  • Jan 20 2014: No. Unfortunately sometimes your spouse dies or you both fall out of love.

    Marriage is a daily commitment to a promise made to each other, a reaffirmation of love, and promise to take care of each other in good times and bad.

    If you both agree that love is no longer possible, then it is time to part. However, until you both have agreed that this is the case, then it is incumbent on both parties to try and do all the work necessary, provide all the love, respect, and honor required to make the marriage work. Anything less is unfair to your partner and a breech of a promise.
  • Jan 19 2014: Mny Thanks Adrian I take note of everything always happy to hear from you..Sweden & Spain, so close here!
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    Jan 17 2014: Paco, I think your question depends very much on the culture, religion, age, etc .... At one time in Spain a young lady could not go out without a escort ... and chaperones were a staple during courtship. In the Catholic Church marriages are sacred and divorce was a excepted only under the direst of circumstances. Times have changed.

    Kids want everything fast ... drive through food, drive through marriages in Vegas, and instant divorce in Reno. They confuse love with lust. Same sex marriages. Drugs for everyone. Life in the fast lane.

    Marriage is never 50 - 50. Successful marriages take work and constant maintenance and adjustments on both sides. It is more like 200% - 200%. Kids are not willing to put in the effort with the way out so easy, available, and accepted.

    When I was a kid a divorced woman moved into town ... a small town. I did not understand why the big fuss ... but if a man was caught talking to her ... there was hell to pay. A child out of wedlock was a family shame .... today it does not even get a second look.

    I am 70 and hopelessly stuck in the past in regards to marriage and manners.

    The answers you receive will tell more about religion (or lack) and age of the responder than the sanctity of the marriage.

    Is this in any way research for a article or book .... let us know so we can read it ... if so.

    I wish you well. Bob.
  • Jan 17 2014: Your culture is newer but it is most advanced in the multicultural process and you have more experiences therefore Europeans see in USA the future that will take years to occur in Europe.
    Regarding you rvolunteer you seem a great lady or as we say when we want to distinguish someone: "Dame Coleen". with all my respect..
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      Jan 17 2014: Thank you Paco....that is very kind of you.

      One of my life philosophies, is that if I'm not part of the solution, I'm part of the problem, so when I observe something that might benefit from my time and attention, I delve into it.

      Another belief of mine, is that we are all students and teachers in this earth school, so with the volunteer positions, I have the opportunity to teach and learn, which benefits myself as an individual, while hopefully contributing to the whole:>)
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      Jan 17 2014: Dear Paco,
      I like that, 'Dame Colleen' :)
      I know a little about her. She is truly an amazing person and one of my most favorite TED mate and friend.
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      Jan 18 2014: You guys are so cute!
  • Jan 15 2014: I believe marriage is like any structure and it has many aspects. First of all it has to be built with a strong foundation otherwise it will not indure over time. Then it will be tested by the elements and any weaknesses corrected and made stronger. As time passes it may have additions (kids, relatives, pets and relationships), these additions must be built with the same common care so as to not weaken the foundation, but instead make it stronger. Most marriages, like structures, will fall apart as the elements wail against it because they refuse to bend like a palm tree in a hurricane. Flexibility has to be part of a good structure. Skyscrapers would crumble to the ground if they were not flexible. So as you can see the longevity of a marriage depends on many aspects the biggest being flexibility and foundation.
    • Jan 15 2014: I agree completely, however to achieve all this effectively over the years is exhausting and very difficult and even I think the real personality of the couple could be affected and no-sincere. Anyway I agree with you.
  • Jan 15 2014: Then it's because either of you did not love enough or maybe did not go that extra mile. Relationships are tough but there's always that one person for whom you are ready to sacrifice everything and are willing to do anything to make him/her happy. But if that person does not reciprocate the same love, then it won't last forever.
    • Jan 15 2014: tt may be that over time, people have become very different from what they were originally. Anywhere very interesting what you say about the Extra Mile. Regards.
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    Jan 14 2014: Hello Paco, and welcome to TED conversations:>)

    It seems like you are asking two different questions that could be related.

    Is marriage forever.....
    When the institution of marriage began, the life span of humans was only about 30-40 years of age. So, if one married for life, it was probably only for 10-20, maybe 30 years. With the life span increasing, the amount of time that one is married (for life) is drastically increasing as well.

    When I entered into a marriage, I believed that we would be together in the marriage until death. My parents were married for 65 years, until they died in their late 80s, so that was the model I had. As you mention in another comment, people change, and sometimes, one or the other partner can accept change, and sometimes not. In my perception and experience, it is important when there is change, to accept and understand each other and that involves good communication. Some people are willing and able to participate in good communication, and some....not so much. So, it is up to each individual and couple to decide if they will adapt to, and accept the changes, or not.

    Do personal relationships (all) have an expiration date?
    I do not believe ANY relationship has an expiration date. Just because a couple chooses not to be married anymore does not mean that the relationship has expired. It could mean that it changes form. People can still love each other and care about each other even if they/we decide that we no longer want to live together in a marriage.
  • Jan 20 2014: Due to the end of this debate in a few hours. I would like to thank all participants, The whole contributions have been nice and appreciated. The subject is much to talk about but... If brief twice good. I have been very fortunate to exchange points of view intelligently with all of you. If anyone has any personal comment outside this platform my e mail is: pacolopezpersonal@outlook. com. Thanks again and see you around.
  • Jan 20 2014: Thank you Robert. I really appreciate your point of view. This debate is almost finishing and we can say that according to the views expressed, the participants say/want that marriage should be forever.Best Wishes
  • Jan 19 2014: Many Thanks Adriaan. I am hooured by your gesture. Best Wishes.
  • Jan 19 2014: Thank you Justin. Yes, I agree, for example in my country I would say that there are two stages, one, us as a parents thought that the marriage was forever,you married as who enters a religious order it was like being a priest or a nun in fidelity and principles, the second stage is our kids mostly have the opposite perception and I would not think this is because what they have seen at home does not please them. Always happy to hear from you.
  • Jan 19 2014: Many thanks Justin. I don´t know how to do it, because I am just beginner in TED but I´ll try. Regards
  • Jan 19 2014: You might want to increase the time limit, this seems to be a popular thread.
  • Jan 18 2014: I forgot to put my Thumbs and I have just put some though the whole answers are worth of it, but doing so with all the comments I understand that would subtract importance of others. Many thanks to all of you
  • Jan 18 2014: Sorry I think I´m doing wrong because sometimes I can´t find the replay, I´m trying to answer everybody by order.
    Sort of little donkey I am!!
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      Jan 18 2014: Paco,
      The little red "reply" option is in the upper right corner of the comment you are replying to:>)
  • Jan 18 2014: Many thanks for the thumb. Really I don´t deserve it. I´m very glad to be here. Thanks again
  • Jan 18 2014: Heavens!!! Did you hear about? What a people, commenting on your absence!!
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    Jan 18 2014: Paco,
    This is dame Colleen speaking........LOL!

    Here is a technical tip. When you reply to someone, use the "reply" option in the upper right corner of the comment you are replying to, rather than going back to the top of the page. That way, the person you are replying to will get a notice that you have replied, and it keeps the conversation in sequence:>)
  • Jan 18 2014: Thank you Joanne. Yes I meant forever in the romantic sense.. I think the Oscar goes to the supporters of marriage forever. In the light of the results I think infidelity should not exist or is because in TED we are all the particiipants very well married. So thank you again for your comment. Regards.
  • Jan 18 2014: I guess it depends on what you mean by "forever"?? ....if you mean *eternal* then No i don't think it will be forever in that sense.....but if you mean "forever" in the romantic sense for as long as we're here on earth...then YES i believe the blueprint meant for it to be that way.
  • Jan 18 2014: Thank you Pabitra. I am finding in TED people with strong and sensible personalities, including you of course!
    In reference to "Dame Coleen" you surely know her more, but it seems to me she is kind of people you´ve always been friend.
  • Jan 18 2014: Many thanks Robert for your answer,I can see all the participants are providing sensible ways to keep a marriage forever, No one has responded with any criteria on rupture.
    I believe that no one can have the absolute truth about the subject. But... I agree with you in all your text.
    This proposed conversation in TED is not a personal issue but a subject for discussion and the exchange of ideas whose participants (all of you) are contributing very wisely. Yours is perfect for me. Tnanks again.
  • Jan 17 2014: Hi Coleen.The problem is that t¡we are all part of the problem.. Some Religion says that man was created in confusion, that religion specifically is quite flexible with the subjet of divorce.
  • Jan 17 2014: Hi Adriaan. Really I appreciate your point of view.Regards
    • Jan 19 2014: Hello Paco, thanks for your kindness,
      Seems you are very good in your English. So if you did not find a Spanish version of the book, here is a link to the English version.
      http://www.swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_conjugial_love.pdf

      Do you know the name Swedenborg? That name has just been introduced to Cuba and they very much would like to get his books in Spanish.

      We do believe marriage is forever because, as Swedenborg said he found out, an angel is a union of a husband and a wife. This book goes into so much detail that initially it could not be imported into Sweden.

      Hope you have found much of what you were looking for and wish you all the best.
      Thanks for this great topic!
  • Jan 17 2014: Dear Paco, I very much believe a marriage with a soul-mate is forever.

    In combination with that is our purpose for being here. I think it is to build the best character we can, and if that can be done as a team of two, of husband and wife, so much the better.

    Since I do not speak Spanish I don't know if it is available, but there is a book about marriage. It is what can make marriages grow and develop, but also what can make them deteriorate and end. This can be checked on www.swedenborg.es

    The English title is "Conjugial Love" or "Married Love" and as I said, don't know what that is in Spanish.

    Hope it helps
  • Jan 17 2014: Hi Coleen nice to hear from you.
    The problem may be when those things that they are said can be so cruel that they will never forget. Sure that you have seen the film The Mission, Sometimes, human reminds me the character that sort of self -punshment carry on their back all of their weaponry and all the things that have done damage to others.
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      Jan 17 2014: True Paco....some things may feel cruel....especially if it is information that a person would rather not hear.

      My personal preference, is to get honest information with which I can make informed choices, because for me, information withheld intentionally, that might be found out later, feels dishonest.
  • Jan 17 2014: Hi again I forgot something, kind of perception that I find is very important and is the ethnic background from each one forms part. I´d say in the United States you have a more dynamic way of seeing things because you are a young country. In Spain (not very popular this days about the corruption) anywhere! In Spain we have a kind of mix blood containing: Iberos, celtas, goths, muslims,jews, romans, french,etc. I think this is a legacy that influence the behaviour, I imagine in other countries will occur the same more or less. I Thin the lineage in this case made us more conservative there is a lot of macho-man and ultra-female woman. discussions many times have ended in my country with the death of one of the spouses. I´m not only talking of Spain, In India for example there are serious problems also.
    This is why I think it depends on countries or ethnic background the focus of the marriage.
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      Jan 17 2014: Good point Paco,
      We (USA) have a lot of interracial marriages/partnerships as well, and I agree that our culture is newer than some other cultures. Where did the people in our culture come from? Other older cultures.....yes? We have our share of stereotypical roles here too Paco, and "discussions" between partners that end in death, physical and/or emotional abuse and violence.

      I volunteered in a shelter for women and children for a couple years, and of course we saw quite a lot of that behavior. I also volunteered with the dept. of corrections facilitating programs for offenders for about 6 years....,.I can vouch for the fact that we (USA) has some of the same behaviors. And I agree that cultures influence the dynamics of marriages and partnerships.
  • Jan 17 2014: Hi Collen nice to hear from you and Sorry for the delay in response due to the time difference.
    .About your comment:

    I think there are times that with the discussion you have to hear and say things that can be very painful for the other person. Eventually I learned that it should give a chance to the patience, silence and time. Perhaps as it says the song by Simon and Garfunkel 50 ways to leave your lover: you know.
    "The problem is all inside your head", she said to me
    The answer is easy if you take it logically
    I'd like to help you in your struggle to be free
    There must be fifty ways to leave your lover"
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      Jan 17 2014: I agree Paco, that there may be times we say something the other person would prefer not to hear. It is the choice of the couple to communicate, or not communicate. If both people are content with keeping things inside and not sharing those things with the partner, and the relationship works that way....so be it.

      Personally, I do not like to let things simmer and stir inside of me, and I think with that practice, a partner senses something, but s/he doesn't know what "it" is, so it can cause insecurity with the relationship. I just like honest, open communication, and I believe it is beneficial for relationships.
  • Jan 16 2014: This is a key point: and a great reality for everyone.

    "One of the challenges with my marriage, is that my partner seemed to continue to perceive me in the same way as when we were first dating and married. However, I had changed and grown with the experience of marriage and children. Because communication was not good for us, there was no opportunity to express the changes, or adapt to the changes. So we kept going further and further apart."

    What about: On communication, it is sometimes best to not talk about some matters because things get worse.
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      Jan 16 2014: That is what my partner thought too Paco....talking about something will make it worse!

      With good communication, there is understanding, respect, and a genuine desire/intent to learn about the other person, our "self", and us together....like it probably was at the beginning of the relationship:>)

      I think/feel the element that contributes to making something worse, is trying to blame, "win" or be "right". That is not good communication, and CAN make things worse. As I said in a previous comment.....it takes two people to have good communication. If one or the other wants to blame and be right, it goes nowhere!
  • Jan 16 2014: Hi colleen and welcome. I´ll try a logical response. I do not know how it is to live alone, but I think I would be prepared. Sure. what I really know is l need a personal space for myself. I think the relationship would improve perhaps if the couple had an area of mutual freedom. .
  • Jan 16 2014: I agree but the rlelationship between a parent and a child yes, change but is slightly different because with the time the father tends to sefl-destruct and hand over power to son. In marriage I think the motivation por stay together is not the same over time as the beginning, strength becomes fellowship, but obviously, yes the relationships change as people change. Thanks for your opinion.
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      Jan 16 2014: Paco,
      You say..." In marriage I think the motivation por stay together is not the same over time as the beginning,"

      Why not? Could it be because we tend to take people for granted? What is the motivation in the beginning, and why can't we re-motivate ourselves?

      I am interested in your comment....."with the time the father tends to sefl-destruct and hand over power to son".

      Can you help me understand that statement?
      • Jan 16 2014: Hi Colleen. Let´s go..First: .I think at the beginning it is all new. coexistence, love, even your new home or sex, a new challenge, a change of life, a novelty, and this is all nice , as in College when you started a new notebook.but that illusion doesn´t last forever.
        Second: the father in its decline in some way is overshadowed by... say the superiority of the son, new ways of thinking, perhaps more appropiaate approaches to the problems. the father weakens while the son is strengthened,This is the moment to transfer the scepter or self destruct..of course, whenever the child is someone in whom trust
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          Jan 16 2014: I agree Paco....in the beginning of a relationship, everything is new.....we are "discovering" each other. We are learning how to "be" with someone.

          In another comment, you write, that after years of marriage...."The character changes, the economic issue is important, retirement involves more time free & together and is almost like learning to live again, manage your time and share it". You also say that..." by aging everything becomes more difficult".

          How about perceiving this as another opportunity to learn, grow and discover a partner in a new way?

          One of the challenges with my marriage, is that my partner seemed to continue to perceive me in the same way as when we were first dating and married. However, I had changed and grown with the experience of marriage and children. Because communication was not good for us, there was no opportunity to express the changes, or adapt to the changes. So we kept going further and further apart.

          You say as in college when you start a new notebook....the illusion doesn't last. As we proceed through several educational experiences and grow with the process, we often start a new notebook....do we not? I suggest starting a new notebook for the next level of the marriage education:>)

          I do not think that a father has to perceive himself as "declining", or "overshadowed" by a son, nor do I perceive a son to be "superior"....UNLESS one or the other, or both, perceive this as the situation. Both a father and son can exchange ideas, accept each other's thoughts, feelings and ideas with appreciation and love.....just as partners can share, exchange and accept each other.....yes? no one has to weaken as the other builds strength...IF/WHEN we can see the benefit of growing together, rather than separately....make any sense?

          The thing is.....one person cannot do it alone. One person can grow in him/herself, and if the other person is not willing or able to do so, the relationship separates...whether or not we are still married.
  • Jan 16 2014: No but I guess my wife and I have not reached the expiration date. (we have been married 43 years) My parents just celebrated their 70th wedding anniversary.
    • Jan 16 2014: I nearly reach forty. and my opinion is: by aging everything becomes more difficult. The character changes, the economic issue is important, retirement involves more time free & together and is almost like learning to live again, manage your time and share it (or not) with your partner, all this can sometimes lead to tensions, but after so much time together I think it si difficult to break, though some people do not think so.
      • Jan 16 2014: I found that relationships change as people change. If we do not realize that and assume that relationships will remain the same as we change, then the relationship will fail. Besides marriage, think how a relationship between a parent and a child must change over time.
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        Jan 16 2014: Paco and Wayne,
        I agree with both of you.....relationships change as people change, and if both partners are not willing or able to change, it sometimes creates challenges.

        It definitely IS difficult to change, and it is important to consider ALL information. A question I asked myself, before deciding to end a 24 year marriage is....would I prefer to stay in a marriage that was not good for either one of us, hoping that things would change? Or, do I make the change (divorce) that might be more beneficial for at least one of us?
        • Jan 16 2014: Hi Colleen! Well, yes is difficult to change and that brings me to the situation: I would rather living alone, by myself? maybe after the experience you consider not re-marry. Or would it be worse because of the social, economic etc. problems to give in and stay together till the end? . Always -welcome.
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        Jan 16 2014: Paco,
        That's another good question.....how might it be to live by myself? Wherever we go, there we are....with our "self".

        I realized that idea years before I decided to divorce, so I spent years changing (improving in my perception) my "self".

        You might ask....am I content with myself? Would I like to live alone by myself? Would I prefer to share myself as I am, with a partner? Or might it help to change myself within the relationship?
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    Jan 15 2014: Hello Paco,

    We come together in relationships to learn something from each other, and to help each other grow (psychologically and spiritually). If both people are on the same page and grow in maturity together, then a marriage is likely to last a lifetime; that I think is the ideal.
    However, if one partner wants to continue to grow and the other does not, then the best course may be to part company - its "expiration date" may have been reached.

    (PS: I recommend the book "Twin Souls" by Joudry & Pressman which I read about 20 years ago)
    • Jan 16 2014: I agree but I think the growth can be positive or negative, is very difficult to go in parallel like railroad tracks. however, for me, your opinion is very good. Thanks.
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    Jan 15 2014: To me a good healthy marriage “should” last a life time. or two, depending on how you look at it. ;)

    Some may say only love-marriages can be good healthy marriages, but I feel it is not my place or anybody else’s place to judge if a arrange marriage, green-card marriage, or whatever is good or not.
    No matter how its starts a marriage takes work for it to be a good marriage.
    And a good marriage is definitely worth the work.

    Part of me say it takes work by both spouses, but really all you can to is to lead by example. (for you can’t control the actions of others just your reaction to their actions.)

    It is not easy but the best thing you can do for a marriage is to look inward and seek the meaning of your life. (P.S. may I suggest Buddha's teachings as a good place to start.)
    For that will give you the key to a good healthy marriage.
    • Jan 16 2014: I really liked your review II would like particularly emphasize::
      And a good marriage is definitely worth the work.
      Part of me say it takes work by both spouses, but really all you can to is to lead by example
      It is not easy but the best thing you can do for a marriage is to look inward and seek the meaning of your
      life.
      Many thanks. Regards
  • Jan 15 2014: Some people think that maybe it´s better rewind and try again, other delete and other clear all and start again. I really appreciate your response. I mean start again a new life with another person.
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    Jan 15 2014: I think when you decide to marry, you think about it very seriously, you weigh many factors and you make a decision that the other person is good enough for you to be your lifelong partner. Probably in almost every case your decision is a correct one. Once in a while you may make a mistake and the other person will surprise you and perhaps be physically violently abusive, and in that case you can leave the marriage, but otherwise you should respect your own judgement and stay with the person. There may be some hard times but that is just part of life.
  • Jan 15 2014: completely agree unless there were maltreatment or family violence.Thanks.
  • Jan 15 2014: Chain reactions or unexpected surprises within the couple? Regards
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    Jan 15 2014: From a pragmatic standpoint, all relationships have an "expiration date" considering that our lives are finite. However, considering that every relationship has an impact on our lives as well as the lives of others, we essentially are the sum total of our experiences and relationships, and "live on" through others. In this sense, one could conclude that relationships are "forever."
    • Jan 15 2014: Should I understand that it is better to continue till the end for the social impact that would produce the final break? Regards.
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    Jan 14 2014: No, I don't think it is forever.
    But it is chain reaction.
  • Jan 14 2014: Many Thanks for your comments. I ´ll try to answer all, but, there is something so uncomfortable as the time difference.
  • Jan 14 2014: I am starting to think you are unbeatable, well, tell e something about fatigue in coexistence or the phrase "Nothing is forever". Regards
  • Jan 14 2014: Tell me something about infidelities.. I really appreciate your points of view. Regards
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      Jan 14 2014: Covered under trust and respect. One should not marry, IMHO, till the time one gets better over the libido. I do not want to judge but it simply makes no sense sleeping around with a spouse at home, unless of course one can accept that the spouse can do likewise; then it is hardly a marriage.
      I am no believer of 'open marriages' .
  • Jan 14 2014: Interesting theories that I respect, however many young people think of sort of big crisis after seven years of marriage. Thank you.for the comment.
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    Jan 14 2014: Yes, if trust and respect for the spouse are forever.
    • Jan 14 2014: And... What in the opposite case?
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        Jan 14 2014: If there are children, making a compromise and wait till such time they are old enough to understand and then part ways, preferably still remaining friendly, if not friends.
        Love can be rekindled, trust and respect are very difficult, almost impossible, to salvage.
  • Jan 14 2014: Do not think that love is like a flower pot. If you do not care enough eventually wither itself.
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      Jan 14 2014: Wow.
      • Jan 14 2014: Wow The song of Kate Bush says:" We are alone on the stage tonight".. This is a nice start or end.
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      Jan 14 2014: Paco,
      Based on my observation of life processes, it appears that anything we want to grow, needs to be nurtured:>)
  • Jan 14 2014: If you really want to spend the rest of your life with that one person, then you'll probably do everything you can just to be with that person. And marriage is merely a ritual performed for the society. The question should be "Do you think love is forever?" and my answer would be a big YES! And if love stays forever, until death, then marriage surely will. Only if both the partners stay fully committed to each other and are ready to go that extra mile to keep each other happy.
    • Jan 14 2014: And... What if you think at the beginning that you can spend the rest of your life with one person and passing time it becomes unbearable?
  • Jan 14 2014: Don´t you think people change a lot over the years? Do you think love lasts forever? Thanks for your response. This is for Justin Baskall.
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    Jan 14 2014: (I assume you mean 'forever' as in terminating in the death of, at least, one partner.) I would start by defining the ideal 'marriage' as the joining of two souls. There are other marriages. There are 'arranged' marriages, there are 'political' marriages, there are marriages for the sake of class and culture, marriages for the perpetuation of worldly goods, immature 'romantic' marriages, marriages for simple companionship and care, and the list goes on. How long a marriage lasts is determined - in my opinion - by the history, values, experiences, ability to communicate grow and change, and bond of the two people involved. Therefore there is no 'all' when it comes to marriages. There is only 'our' marriage, this one only. Like a snowflake - similar to all others but singular in design.
    • Jan 14 2014: I meant, for example, the case of a "normal" couple,, in love at twenty and now meet sixties.
  • Jan 13 2014: 1. I would put this in the questions catagory
    2. I think that yes marrige should be forever. If you go into a marrige thinking "well if this doent work I can always divorce" then your never really fully commited to the relationship because you think you have a way out. Now I'm not saying divorce is never nessacery, abusiveness and cheating should by all means be reasons to end it. But to many people go into marrige with that backing out idea, when they should probably spend more time decidinv if they really want to bewiththis p
    erson.
    • Jan 14 2014: And... If it is simply a mutual mistake?
      • Jan 19 2014: That is where the continjency in my theory is. If you feel that it wasa mistake then one should end it.