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pat gilbert

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How likely is it that China will go to war as a solution to their current and future economic problems?

Countries often use war as a diversion to their economic problems?

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Closing Statement from pat gilbert

The consensus is that China will not go to war.

Not sure how predictable this subject is though.

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    Jan 15 2014: Excuse me, why do you think we will be following the USA's and Japan's economic footprints but not other western countries that didn't start a war at all? We have different CULTURE and PEOPLE and characteristics of society( socialistic capitalism).:)

    You don't know us Chinese at all, Chinese people are difficult to be cheated by our government into starting a war because we're already well informed about the world through all kinds of approaches and like to be happy and enjoy a safe life.And we like to save money. When the wars happened, I think our savings would be in danger. No one would want this to happen. And according to your reply , your possible scary thinking is we lend money to you USA , so you have the motivation to kill us because you don't want to or can't pay off the debts. I hope this is just a small number of Americans' thinking, because I've heard from other Americans that they're against it and feel appalled too. And I think other righteous powers all over the world won't let this happen.

    And you have told us a secret that the USA's taking part in the WW2 was because of the benefit in economic development but not because the Pearl Harbor Incident. Thank you for sharing you point.

    According to your answers, I personally think the USA is a threat to our world's peace too. I wish to be able to hear other Americans' voices here.
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      Jan 15 2014: Are you asking me? Notice at the top of the page I framed this conversation as a question, not a debate or a statement.

      I'm not assuming anything, certainly not that I know anything about the Chinese people.

      Before a war gets started the idea is sold to the people. The leader needs a reason for the war so they do something to provoke another country to commit an act of war. That is how it has worked in the past in Vietnam. Johnson made up a story about the gulf of Tonkin to get the US into the war.

      In North Korea the US came to the aide of the South Koreans as China was aiding the N Koreans as they did in Vietnam.

      Most people do not want a war, especially me. Jimmy (notice how someone can sell someone else an idea) sent you a link on how Americans want war. This the very mechanism I'm talking about. In the case of war as I stated war is usually about money so for example the Swedish Banker says the US said something bad about you to the German leaders, the banker then goes to the US and says the Germans said something bad about you. This creates animosity in Germany and the US. Maybe this is why Sweden is never in wars?

      The past few wars were about the WTC bombing in which 3000 Americans were killed in one of our biggest cities. I admit that they have gone into countries with little provocation and questionable reasons.

      The debt is a problem but our country will likely just inflate the value of the dollar and pay back debt with money that is worth less.

      Yes many Americans wish that we would quit spending so much on policing the world.
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        Jan 15 2014: I did what!? What link is that Pat?
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          Jan 15 2014: You know what you did....

          Quote from Yoka

          "Your thinking has reminded me that I have seen a video about Jimmy show in which Jimmy asked the American children if one day Americans can't pay off the debts to Chinese what they would think was the good resolution. And one child suggested killing all the Chinese. It seems this is a philosophy of Amercan, isn't it?"
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          Jan 16 2014: hahahahah............Jimmy , yes you're called Jimmy too, but I had never thought he would link you to the JImmy talk show, it's funny~!:)

          If no one apologizes to you, I'd like to do it: Sorry~!:)
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          Jan 16 2014: You did nothing,hehehehe....
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        Jan 15 2014: THAT Jimmy is NOT me Pat!

        I think Jimmy Show/Chow is someone else. Someone Yoka was watching on YT...
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          Jan 15 2014: Ok my bad, but I can't pass up a chance to antagonize you.
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        Jan 15 2014: That's okay, I completely understand that sentiment.
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          Jan 18 2014: Thank you Jimmy, I'm glad I can open it, but I have a lot of things to do.And I've already known you have different opinions on issues of China's human rights( I did remember you posted a lot of relevant links in one comment in the past)with mine, I've known what's in your link, but I'm tired today and need time to read it carefully ,will get back to you as soon as possible.
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          Jan 21 2014: Hi, Jimmy, I didn't find anything in the link that said China did the wrong things(Chinese version), do you believe the Dalai lama too? Why? We helped Tibet people to get freedom from the Dalai lama(abolished the feudal serfdom system) and build houses for them to live a better life. They used to live a life even worse than animals‘ before our liberation.Have you been to Tibet?

          And actually I don't think this has anything to do with that China will launch a war in the future. I think this is a little unfriendly topic to mislead people to thinking China is aggressive and dangerous.
    • Jan 15 2014: Yoko,

      What about Tibet?
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        Jan 16 2014: I know there's a sensitive political part on Tibet issue, what's your perspective of Tibet?
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        Jan 16 2014: And I'm YokA not YokO. :D
        • Jan 17 2014: Yoka,

          sorry about that. Tibet declared itself a separate country in 1912, roughly the same time frame as Mongolia. Personally, I think it was an invasion and a take over of a separate country.
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        Jan 17 2014: You must have some evidence.Can you show me?
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        Jan 18 2014: Hi, wayne, thank you for your links but I can't open them, actually before asking you for the evidence, I have roughly read some materials, but I'm not there in Tibet so I wanted to know what you thought of it first and compare it with what fact I can find out. And I'm busy with other things in my life, so I can't reply in time sometimes. Although I think this is a matter related to POLITICS not T,E and D, but I'll get back to you to exchange my idea on this with you.
        • Jan 20 2014: np - understand the time constraints we are all under. One article I read many years ago was that China was concerned that the source of much of the water came from Tibet and they wanted to control it.
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        Jan 21 2014: It's a long story about Tibet. But I didn't know your story about water resource.
        It's said Chinese people set up the governmental bureau in Tibet in the Yuan dynasty( Year 1264). And China was under invasions from some foreign countries before 1912 and the Qing dynasty didn't admit the announcement of Tibet to be totally independent at all. Meanwhile, the Qing dynasty was on the edge of downfall, another Chinese revolutionary power in China wanted to take over the power. It's such a chaos in China. As a result, Tibet fell into autonomy to some extent. Obviously it's an abnormal time in China during that invaded period!

        So I think Chinese people wanted to take it back after all the wars(invasions and civil wars) ended and the new China stood up, it's actually because of our history that we think it's one of our part. And still it's one of our autonomous regions now(their people and religion are respected).

        In fact, people with different political stands may interpret the same facts into different views. Many countries opposed China's socialism since long ago. And you said you came to China before and you liked people here. Do you feel Chinese people are violent? And after the new China was established, we had the 3-year famine in China, many people died instead of considering invading other countries for foods or resources.
        • Jan 23 2014: I think each country has their version of history. The actual story is probably somewhere in between.

          I just saw a special on Tibet and what the Chinese Government is doing to Tibet. Creating a shopping mall at one of the most religious sites to the Tibetans. The report also indicated that the number of monks has gone down from over 200,000 to 30,000. Most of the people feel they have no freedom.

          Did you know about the riots that occurred in 2008 and the number of monks that have set themselves on fire in protest of the Government?

          No, I do not think the Chinese people are violent. I believe that the Chinese Government will do what they want to get to the goals they have set. As I have said before, the veneer of civilization on humans is very thin and anyone can be violent.

          On the famine from 1958-1962, I am old enough to remember the news reports from that period. The Chinese Government claimed there was no famine and it was propaganda generated by the Western Governments. There were reports of people starving to death before warehouses full of grain. I, also, believe that there were major problems with distribution. The government and the military were well fed.
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        Jan 23 2014: Can you give me the special news on Tibet and the 2008 violent event? I know there're ofen this kinda violent actions taken by some problematic Tibetans.

        As for the famine, Chinese government at that time certainly didn't release the truth to the world But I heard it from my parents a lot. At that time, there's a slogan: You can get as much food as you can imagine. So they got grain from lots of barns into one barn and filmed it to show you foreigners as well as domestic people how rich China was. But you're right too, some people think it's not only the natural disaster but also a negative political activity because at that time people were so interested in politics and didn't work at farming either.
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        Jan 24 2014: Hi,wayne
        First I'd like to tell you that the bbc was said to be one of the reactionary media for Chinese government. But it seems something has changed because of our economic open policy, so I can access your news now. And people sometimes have to tailor their own political orientation or other orientations to cate to who they work for to make a living.

        The news about the fire in Tibet is true, but compared with ours, it's just a worm's eye view. There isn't much detail about why the fire occurred and how Chinese government tackled the fire and helped people to reduce and relieve their loss in life.It's an accident. Every country has its own problems in social security in some aspect like you America still having a problem with gun violence. It's not reported in our news about "fire prevention equipment had been closed down to prevent pipes from bursting in below-freezing temperatures." Why this part has been reported as a main point in your news? Here I'd like to attached the link to our news too. You can find our people are aware of this matter's severity and angry enough to appeal to the government to find out the reason of the fire and how our government reacted to the fire. We Chinese people are also feeling grieved to see the cultural relics have been ruined by the fire.I think only people are trustable. They can make all the truth transparent.There are several groups of people who are interested in exposing some under-table truths in our society such like corruptions or illegal inside deals etc. You can see not only the positive side but also the negative side in the reports. But where is the positive side in your news?
        http://www.chinanews.com/cul/2014/01-17/5751509.shtml
        http://news.enorth.com.cn/system/2014/01/14/011606313.shtml
        "据刘秋生介绍,到12日晚,除本地受灾群众(多数到附近亲属家中居住)外,已安置转移受灾群众532人。当前香格里拉气候条件严峻,让受灾群众长期有房住、有饭吃、有干净水喝、有衣穿、有被盖困难很大。灾民的安置工作分为两期,第一阶段是10天,第二阶段为半年,会给灾民安排保障房,但具体能安置多长时间仍不确定。

          目前,该县按每户10000元的标准,紧急下达应急救助资金400万元;按每户3000元的标准,下拨慰问金100万元。"
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        Jan 25 2014: Continue the part of the Chinese report in http://news.enorth.com.cn/system/2014/01/14/011606313.shtml :

        排查古城古镇古村消防

          据新华社电国家文物局13日向各省、自治区、直辖市文物局(文化厅)发出紧急通知,要求各级文物行政部门和各文物、博物馆单位要加强管理,强化措施,改善防范条件,全力降低火灾事故发生率。

          独克宗古城11日凌晨发生火灾,古城历史风貌严重破坏,部分文物建筑不同程度受损。事件引起国家文物局高度关注。

          《通知》强调,要将保存文物丰富集中的古城、古镇和古村落作为消防工作的重中之重。并要求相关部门和单位立即行动,全面排查。《通知》要求各省级文物行政部门将本辖区内开展此次文物火灾隐患排查工作情况和隐患整治整改情况于3月底前书面报国家文物局。
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        Jan 25 2014: In light of http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25188292
        I didn't find much detail about the evidence too. The main part is to use the British Minster's campaigners so-called findings to lead people to believing something. Maybe it's true, but I know some people who believe in some religion are difficult to be communicated some new ideas. But we have to respect their traditions or beliefs. This may arouse some conflicts sometimes. I have seen some reports on TV that some mobs even killed and hurt their Tibetan civilians when they committed their violent behaviors.And Chinese people like the ethnic minorities very much(not only Tibetans). There are many excellent artists among them who are versed in dancing and singing or handy crafts etc ,and without their culture, we'll lose a lot of varieties of music style,clothing ,architecture etc. The children from the ethnic minorities have many extra points added to their final score when they take the entry exams to schools and universities. Do American Chinese have extra points when taking entry exam to the university?

        And you mentioned some monks' "tragic life", I don't know exactly either. But according to some materials I've read and the feudal serfdom system which has been abolished in Tibet, the monks are said to be the exploiters of the Tibetan civilians. So if their civilians get more freedom and can live a better life under the help of our people, then it's reasonable that those monks will have less to get if they don't want to change their identities in the new society.

        And I know there will be lots and lots of other news like this in western, I'm not really interested in it. Hope this can bring some different thoughts to you on how to understand news at your end about China.

        And last, I want to make it clear that even if I tell you some truth, people who believe China is a threat in the future may don't change their mind, that's what I really feel sorry for.
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        Jan 25 2014: And here are some fantastic videos introducing China filmed by BBC and Chinese.It's called "美丽中国”。
        I think everything has two sides.:)
        http://t.cn/z8lRlB3
        http://t.cn/z8lRYdh
        http://t.cn/z8lRHII
        http://t.cn/z8lR870
        http://t.cn/z8lRE5Z
        http://t.cn/z8lRngJ

        And if you're interested, please find more by yourself.
        • Jan 25 2014: Agreed as I said earlier, the actual is probably somewhere in between.

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