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Does anyone care here about "sound pollution" and "mind pollution"?

Cause art/music appears to be doing just that... Music disrupts the sounds made by surrounding fauna making them loose their communication ways.

Music while listened by humans puts their brain/main in cycle of "boom-boom-boom/tra la-la" that goes for long time in the brain after session. All you can come up with after it is another "boom-boom tra-la-la". I never met a human that will say: "this song made me invent a new style wind turbine". Did any one?

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    Jan 19 2014: I think we are oblivious to this stuff. We let TV or email or text or TED like forums dictate to us what we do with our schedule. In effect we have allowed our selves to be Pavlovian dogs.
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    Jan 17 2014: Everything in moderation and there will be no problem.
  • Jan 18 2014: Try looking up the term "Amusica"
    • Jan 18 2014: Ha ha ha - thumbs down. Try to look for term "Information". Can you define it? And then ask yourself Y U can define sicknesses of environment you don't understand even it's basic elements.
  • Jan 17 2014: I do !
    Among all gadgets it's ear-phones that i value the most.I don't even have any, but i am grateful to people who are wearing them in public places.
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    Jan 14 2014: well, Dorian, sometimes music can indirectly help you by letting your mind relax and go away from the problem it is occupied with. Or the lyrics or production can give you something to think about, or teach you something, and maybe lead to new thoughts, but they will only be thoughts related to those lyrics, or that production. But a lot of times I think it could interfere with creativity, it's very hard to think and listen to music at the same time.
    • Jan 15 2014: Once one man told me a joke:
      Americans ask Russians: "Y you drink so much?"
      R: "To relax. How you relax if not drinking?"
      A: "We do not concentrate so don't need to relax."

      This "relax" thing appears to be related only to the situation when you do work that you don't like to do. Mainly hurting yourself and sometime (if not all the time) others.

      Appears to me that 0.1% of lyrics in the best case make any sense. ~90% appears to be telling us that we like sex - but strange - we know that even before first experience.

      Creativity appears to be result of availability of tools and resources (including knowledge, passion, attention). From what I understand it shall not "concentrate" a human to the extent that he would need to "relax" - it shall be pleasure on its own.

      The only situation I C one may need "music to relax" appears to be when due unavailable tools/resources, or "orders from high ups that do not conform with ones view" make the one give up. As result one goes for any other information available that makes him forget his failure. Perhaps, instead of listening the music one shall search for solution that can be applied to real situation. Indeed our hierarchic society has plenty of such examples.
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        Jan 15 2014: well, music appears to hold sensuous pleasure for many. The sounds are made to appeal to our ear and brain. Some like the chance to move and dance, music is interesting for them and brings out new movements. Some songs touch the emotions. Sometimes when you are working on something difficult, you need to get away from it for awhile, and music can be a way. What is your creative process, Dorian, what is your job and what do you create?

        I agree that listening to music could be wrong when you really wish you were doing something else, but don't feel empowered to do it. You have the impression that this happens often to people, right? What is your source on that? What is motivating this conversation, Dorian, are there people in your life listening to music and you think they are wasting their time? Or.....?
        • Jan 16 2014: At present days I do computer programming, playing with micro-controllers, take care of child, prepare food, do sports, question everything possible, talk with humans about economy, in particular Resource Based Economy as described by Fresco at www.thevenusproject.com, about non violent communication as described at www.cnvc.org, about book "Tyranny of words", learn 6th language (Chinese)...

          Art and as result music appears to be very powerful tool in informing human bran. However, it appears to be heavily misused. Just like alcohol - it can be used to sterilize wounds and medical tools or can be used to tranquilize brains. And all of this - to steal one of the most precious resources human has - his attention. As humans attention is busy with dealing with alcohol results, music cycles, games, bull-shit stories... human elite has their attention on planetary resources.

          By attention I mean in this context the process of focusing ones senses to a point in space and time.
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        Jan 16 2014: well, Dorian, who do you know or where have you seen music used to tranquilize brains?
        • Jan 17 2014: Usually before elections in at least one country elites organize concerts on the main square o the capital. There one may see thousands of red faces screaming, some up to tears. By tranquilize in this context I mean "to disable the process of thinking". Does this anser ur question?
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        Jan 17 2014: well, i've never been to such a concert. But how much screaming is there, or how long is the concert, because it would be exhausting to scream for two hours. But, Dorian, what do you mean by screaming, because people listening to music want to listen and hear pleasant sounds, they don't want to hear an ugly sound of people screaming continuously? Have you witnessed this personally? Where? Can you link any video that shows this?

        Sometimes you may not think overtly at a concert. You may only want to feel things, or dance, or enjoy pure sound. But still many may be thinking underneath it all. Also, after the concert, they may start thinking again, they may reduce their thinking during the concert.

        But I agree with you, people should not vote for a politician just because they put on a great concert? But if they like the politician's position otherwise, the concert may give them some pleasure and help them feel stronger in following that politician?

        But you are saying that a lot of people will vote for the politician just because they like the concert, the concert appeals to their emotions? But how many people attend the concert, 50,000, because in a national election, it takes more than 50,000 to put the politician in office. But what are you going to do, ban concerts, forbid a politician to have a concert?
        • Jan 17 2014: I'll tell you one case. The area I live is a block of few 17 levels buildings. Administration (that takes care of infrastructure) decided that we need music - and every evening we got music (everyday starting with Titanic song). I got tired of it cause it was loud and repeating and also depressing. So I wrote Administration a letter asking them to stop the music cause we, people who live here have enough devices to play our own music, and let bugs play their songs and meet and multiply, and let birds come (bugs are their food) and play their songs. Since birds do not play in cycles, its not boring and depressing (like Titanic) and reminds us the locals that nature is still there and is alive and is working.

          One single letter (I believe here have more than 400 apartments) - made them stop the music for already 4 months. Strange - but so far no one ask them to start it back - such impression that it was played for me in person.

          "...screaming continuously?" - those "emotions" you talk about - come to an extreme.
          "Have you witnessed this personally? Where?" yes. somewhere :). Go to rock concerts. "Can you link any video that shows this?" http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/LkE_ei0iagg/

          "You may only want to feel things...". 350 children die during "you may want" for 20 min from hunger - how is the filling now?

          "...people should not vote..." - Appears that "People should not vote! They shall solve directly whatever they think a "politician" shall do for them."
        • Jan 20 2014: re :relaxing and escaping are pretty similar...

          They are chemical cousins , yes, but they differ in degree.
          If you want to forget about your problems you try to relax ; but if you are aware that your problem is you, you may want to forget about yourself, you need much more to drink to achieve it, it's escape.
          Russians tend to opt to the latter...alas ! :)
      • Jan 17 2014: Russians drink not to relax but to escape, that's why they drink so much.
        :)
        • Jan 18 2014: Agree. Its also not Russians who drink the most. :)
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          Jan 19 2014: relaxing and escaping are pretty similar, aren't they, natasha? What are you trying to say here?
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        Jan 17 2014: well, Dorian, I really understand you not liking being forced to listen to music the administration chose. But at a concert, everyone listening has chosen to be there?

        Is there any music you like? When I watch the clip you provided, I see people enjoying the music, performance, and so on. It's not my type of music, but I can see how someone would like it.

        You seem awfully serious. You do realize people have to have fun, right? What do you do for fun? Do you think that for some people it is genuinely fun to listen to music, or are they all just faking it?
        • Jan 18 2014: Problem I try to analyze in this talk is not music - but overuse of it.

          Food one eats - brings him pleasure. Overused food brings him pleasure too - but at the same time fat and immobility.

          Alcohol - may cure and bring pleasure. Overuse also brings pleasure - plus brain destruction.

          Appears not to be the case that when U get pleasure you shall go for it. Drops of Venus flytrap (Dionaea muscipula) plant bring pleasure to a fly... and deaf.

          Pollution with CO2 does not mean that you shall not make fire ever again.

          Since children under 5 years still die from hunger at specified above rate - I fell uncomfortable and selfish to have that much fun as at the concert in the provided link. Or,, madona promoting presidents that bring war as well as gay marriage instead of - please find solution for famine.
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        Jan 18 2014: well, how will you know when it's overuse, Dorian? Because you're saying that if you listen to any music at all, you feel guilty because children are dying of famine? The people at the concert, how do you know that is not the only concert they ever went to in their life? Maybe some of them are famine workers who work most of the time against famine, but just once they took two hours off to go to a concert? Then would you excuse them?

        Do you do anything for fun, then? What is it?

        Where do you live that you're so interested in starving children? Are there children starving where you are? How do you know they're starving? Have you ever seen a starving child? What are you doing for them besides talking on TED?

        You know sometimes musicians also fight for starving children? Some years ago George Harrison gave a famous concert for Bangladesh that I would think was supposed to help extremely poor people?
        • Jan 18 2014: 1. Those who die from famine are so slim that they cannot bring up from the ground their legs, hands and heads. People are results of environment - what I have to "excuse"?

          2. I live.

          3. On Earth. You? Not much - educate people about reality - check Resource Based Economy and Jacque Fresco talks on youtube for complete understanding.

          4. Yes some, very few do.

          PS: Overuse in case of music appears to me to be when the "global consciousness" aim in space and time does not meet my own needs due misdirection of attention of others from this Earth.
        • Jan 18 2014: In fact appears to be very hard to imagine how art/music may harm one. To have a deep understanding knowledge in Informational Physics appears to be required.

          A flying bullet may in-form (transmit its form, including energy) ones hand and cause destruction.
          A bee may in-form under ones skin its venom as as result venom chemical structure will in-form cells around.
          The same way sound in-forms (transmits its form from a sound generator INto abrain) the brain - neurons connect. It does not pain as in case of physical/chemical in-formation. However it affects ones next steps/decisions.

          Music appears to be ideology just like religion. And I already got named "atheist" in this talk :).
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        Jan 19 2014: No, what I meant is that if you talked to the people at a concert, the audience, you may find that some of them hold jobs, pursue professions and careers, that are helping people around the earth. You might find people in the audience at a rock concert who, in their career and work life, when they are not at the concert, work at an agency for environmental improvement. You might find people in the audience, who, in their career and work life, when they are not at the concert, are working to reduce crime or drug and alcohol addiction. You might even find people who, in their career and work life, when they are not at the concert, work in agencies that fight famine. But, Dorian, most people cannot work 16 hours a day, seven days a week. In fact, if you only work, and work constantly, your productivity goes down, in fact you need to take breaks from work in order to keep working successfully.

        I would imagine many musicians give time and money to different causes. Do you think there are other worthy causes besides famine? What if someone were devoting themselves to fighting war, instead of famine? Would you accept that?
        • Jan 19 2014: At current level of technology - humans may not work at all - sadly they are blinded by music, tv and alike.

          Money - irrelevant solution. War is not to be started - not to fight. Questions you ask denote that you didnt check my refferences.
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        Jan 19 2014: so you think humanity could live without having to work, except they are blinded by music and TV? That sounds very doubtful to me, Dorian. We have excellent farm technology, but farmers still have to work. We have excellent machines to help with making clothes, but humans are still involved in some aspects of sewing.

        Money is an irrelevant solution? Is money irrelevant to fighting famine? Then how do you fight it? Unfortunately, people do start wars, and then others work for peace, to end the war.

        I maintain, Dorian, that people cannot work 16 hours a day on making the world better, or solving problems. Sometimes they have to take a break and have fun. Well, there is some fun in making the world better, but there's a different kind of fun in listening to music, or dancing, or playing some basketball with your friends. Do you do anything that people consider typically fun, since you don't like the arts, perhaps you play sports, or watch sports, or....?
        • Jan 19 2014: Man - check Resource Based Economy and Jacque Fresco talks on youtube - all your questions answered. To understand why money are irrelevant check The Zeitgeist Addendum movie. To understand even deeper current economy - The Corporation and Food Inc, on vimeo: Capitalism - a lovely story. To understand how systems works and how they can be auto administered - you need to speak Russian :).

          I wish the world would be that simple and reduced to word "fun". Sadly appears not to be the case.

          For fun: If you want to "put me down" - come with real giants and climb their shoulders. (ask Isaac Newton why)
        • Jan 19 2014: Checkout http://www.usdebtclock.org/ how fast new money are created out of thin air. All of them go mainly on creating war.

          If your art reflects future planning - I'm all for it. If it reflects what you did yesterday with your girlfriend - I don't care,
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        Jan 19 2014: what do you mean "put you down," Dorian? Do you think I'm criticizing you? I'm not, I'm just trying to understand your ideas and see if they are good ones.

        Well, I started watching a Jacque Fresco video on YouTube. He seems like a decent thinker. When you say art reflecting "future planning," what are you talking about? You mean like planning what you're going to do next weekend?
        • Jan 20 2014: By "put me down" - I mean change my view about music. I accept it may be possible but also suspect it may be very hard :). ... Anyway - it was mentioned to be for "fun".

          I mean "think globally - act locally". History does not matter - especially what nation hates who. Future matters - we are going to live there.

          If in a song/paint will be lyrics/images about futuristic ideas, about sociology, ideas heavily based on science I would accept it.
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        Jan 20 2014: Oh, I don't have any strong agenda to change you, Dorian. In my mind, we are "playing" with ideas, do you accept that perception?

        I can see that your topic would be an important topic for music to take up. Is there any current music or songs that do this that you can steer me to? You got this idea about future planning from Jacque Fresco? Does he say anything about music?

        One problem I see is that if you limit all songs to one topic, the songwriters will become bored of the topic after a while, and write either bad songs, or no songs. And the audience is going to become tired of the topic after a while, too?
        • Jan 20 2014: Great! Now I can breath relaxed :).

          Songs I didn't encounter so far. There are poor attempts like Enigma's "The Same Parents"... Some artists also tried to put some Fresco's ideas on notes. But I'm not impressed so far. However a movie yes - "Idiocracy" - a comedy where a lot of aspects including monetary system and even music (army rock guitars) are shown from a little bit different point of view than today's standard. If you really like music - try to play/write songs - you'll learn faster it's aspects as well as limitations.

          Fresco mentions that "art is dangerous" since is "subject to interpretation" and also is "misused" by current establishment.

          Do not worry - with todays computer power and human stupidity "good" songs will only get "better" and their number will increase only.
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        Jan 20 2014: okay, I will see if I can get a copy of Idiocracy. But Dorian, you cannot make every song about the same thing, people will get too tired of it. Even you will get too tired of it, I think?
        • Jan 20 2014: Hm... how it comes then that not so many get tired of present "love" songs?
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        Jan 20 2014: excellent question, Dorian, I had not thought about it. Had you said that 90% of songs are about love? I think you are wrong, I think there is more variety than that.

        Can you write music? Maybe you could compose songs about your favorite subject, which is future planning, right? If you don't know how to write music now, maybe you can learn?

        Here is a study that shows 50-60 percent of songs are about love and personal relationships: http://news.ufl.edu/2007/05/31/pop-songs/ But, Dorian, even if you have excellent future planning, people are still going to be concerned about their lovelives and personal relationships, aren't they? Are you going to outlaw those songs?
        • Jan 21 2014: When a child like a computer game - it'll take tons of time to explain him why no need to waste time with it. He will understand it latter on his own. Appears to be I understood that about music :).

          There are amassing things out there to do. Especially when humans on street do not look down avoiding everyone and are ready to communicate with you with at any point.
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        Jan 21 2014: Well, I don't think many people are going to perceive their love relationships like a computer game, people take love seriously and look for the best relationship and try to make the relationship better. Isn't that why people sing about their love relationships, Dorian?

        Do you have a love relationship with someone? But if you were a musician, you would not feel like writing a song about it?

        What is this mass of things to do? You mean talk with people on the street? What conversation are you going to have with them? But some of what you talk about with people is their love relationships, right?
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        Jan 21 2014: just the conventional meaning, where you have some particular person that you particularly enjoy spending time with, probably have similar things you like to do, probably enjoy doing recreational activities together, there is a chance you will marry that person or are already married to that person, which means you have shared goals and probably some similar values, and can work together successfully? Also some sexual attraction.
        • Jan 21 2014: What if I can do that with many? What if marriage would be irrelevant anymore? Cause everything changes in space/time?

          What if everyone in the street would agree to do anything you offer from talk, to sports, travel and yes - including sex? What if you can have any means of transportation and you can stop anywhere on earth? What if you can travel anytime anywhere cause you can take a train that goes around earth in 4-5 hours? What if the technology would be that advanced that you can experience flying in the low moon gravity, go to Mars and alike? What if you can have access to any resource needed for any desired research?

          I don't want to "marry" anyone - or as one girl stated "we went and informed government that we sleep together".
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        Jan 22 2014: Dorian, aren't you afraid if you just go with anyone you meet on the street, you might get AIDS?

        Actually, I think now people would talk to you on the street, but you would have to have a purpose for stopping them and asking them to talk? Do you see anyone on the street you would like to talk to, what would you like to talk to them about?

        I don't know, Dorian, seems like most people want marriage, no? Even though people know they don't have to get married. But whether you get married or not, you will still want to make music about love, won't you? Even if you don't get married, you will still probably only find one person or a few people who you want to be in a relationship with, and if you are happy in the relationship you might want to make music about it?
        • Jan 23 2014: One may be afraid to fly on this rock at 300 000 km/h with this hudge atomic reacrtor near by in the space full of other rocks, protonic stars that can kill us in seconds... I belive U know the joke that ends: "children - today we will teach u how to put condom on the globe".

          If to think in the frame of current established believes - what u say - makes perfect sence. However, 100 years ago - it would sound ridiculous.

          I'm talking about situation in which every earth's human knoledge would be brought to the highest level possible in the given moment in space time.

          According to my observations most of the long time run couples are not satisfied with their partners. And even old humans who start new relations - look more satisfied. Appears to be that we keep going together most of the time based on fear that will loose possetions or fear that no one else would accept us anymore.
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        Jan 23 2014: well, let's say you do have a society where people move from one love to another. Still, is there anything wrong with celebrating love, after all you want to celebrate future planning in a song, why not celebrate love in a song?
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    Jan 14 2014: Our aftificial noises, and gadgets producing our personal noises, deprive the majority of people of awareness of where they really are, and what is going on around.

    Ignorance does not help compare what is precious with what is just noise..

    Inspite all that brainless entertainment, amuzing games and TV etc , we all suffer terrible emotional starvation in contemporary crowds, especially in the cities within their psychotic environment.

    Separated from the nature, we become deaf and blind towards reality, we become deeply depressed. Desperate to get somehow excited, to revive our emotions and sense-perceptions, we have no clue about what to do, and buy more "hammering" into our ears devices.

    When one is surrounded by nature, in wilderness, one feels overwhelmed with the powerful vital energy exchange with mountains, trees, grass, skies, stars, sounds and water..

    The most fantastically composed and performed music very rarely may effect us as much as nature itself.

    It's sad when the ideas of music, writing, sciences, education or art come to the masses and become a mass-produced grotesque, clownish and vulgar idiocy. People do not even know that they still have some better choices..
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    Jan 13 2014: Julian Treasure has three Talks on your topic, I advice watching them to get answers to your questions.

    http://www.ted.com/speakers/julian_treasure

    (scroll down a bit)
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    Jan 13 2014: To each his own. I am more worried about time pollution.
  • Jan 21 2014: I do not consider this conversation with you, to be worth continuing

    goodbye
  • Jan 21 2014: Hi Dorian

    Music is not a language.

    And I do not know how many sounds music generally does possess, as I am not a musician.

    However, as all forms of music are made up of sounds, so it follows that all forms of “humanly audible sounds” can be used to make up human produced music.

    And all sounds in nature can be used by nature, and are used by nature, to make up the “holistic musical spectrum”, of the “holism of the natural kingdom”.

    And the "non-digital": “Holistic musical spectrum/splendor” of the “holism of the natural kingdom” is the holistic musical spectrum which all living things are attuned to, from the moment of their conception, to the moment of their death.

    Music is both a natural and an emotional form of communication, which does not require the phonetics of language, as its receptors exist within the souls, of each and every one of us, and each and every other living creature.

    Don’t believe me? Go out in the early hours before dawn, and wait until you hear the dawn chorus; and if it doesn’t touch your soul?...

    Cheers Carl
    • Jan 21 2014: In the book "Tyranny of Words" one may find why would be reasonable to use "appears to be" instead of "is".

      Quite: "... form of communication" - appears to be the way we define word "language".

      Birds appear to use sounds to communicate, to attract each other. It may sound like music to us - but "music" word appears to be defined only in human head.
  • Jan 19 2014: Hi Dorian

    Quote:Music while listened by humans puts their brain/main in cycle of "boom-boom-boom/tra la-la" that goes for long time in the brain after session. All you can come up with after it is another "boom-boom tra-la-la".

    Quote: I can play many instruments myself, can write music, use computers to generate it.

    The music you play on your instruments, and listen to; is natural, pure unadulterated "Analogue" music.

    Analogue sounds, and music, are the fundamental and the "holistic" form of communication, that the entire spectrum of our analogue minds/souls, and those of all creatures of the Natural Kingdom, are uniquely and congenitally attuned to.

    And no digital device or computer

    Is able to reproduce these sounds, in the form of their original purity/beauty/perfection

    Because analogue + n - (positive neutral negative) sounds, and also analogue visual elements; cannot be converted... "in their entirety" ... into a base 10 = 1 0/+ -/On Off/Yes No/Black White; digital format.

    1 Musical Note = one + n - Musical Note/Unit = three fundamental elements of energy per musical note

    Multiplied by 17, to produce a Musical Chord = 51 Musical Elements in total

    Digitally ÷ by 10 = 5•1 Musical Elements, per 10 Digital Notes to a "Digital Chord"

    The fundamental unit of reality is + n - therefore "3 fundamental elements = 1 Analogue unit"

    On your calculator ÷ any "1 whole analogue unit" of reality" = 1 musical note/1 cake/1 apple/1 person etc. by 3

    1 Musical Note ÷ 3 = 0• 3333333 recurring

    Now multiply 0• 3333333 by 3 = 0•9999999 recurring

    Multiply by 17 per Musical Chord = 16•999999 recurring

    And the mind distracting "boom-boom-boom/tra la-la" results; because 0•9999999 of the Music has been lost

    Which is why I listen to vinyl recordings; as all of the emotions that were recorded, are inherent to the record I am listening to; and thus are natural food for my analogue soul; and I do not need to be there literally, in order to experience this.

    Cheers Carl
    • Jan 19 2014: Music appears to be a language with 7 basic sounds. One may not communicate much using only music. Try to tell one in musical language to build a chair for you. It also appear to be a language that is subject of heavy interpretation. As many listeners - as many opinions on what it means. So I do not understand how music is "holistic" form of communication. I cannot call even mathematical language holistic, even if is harder to interpret. One may know - perfection cannot be achieved. Would you mind to explain?
  • Jan 17 2014: As somebody who struggled with depression as a child, music was everything to me. It gave me an escape from the badness happening all around me, and brought me joy whenever I played my cello or guitar. I played in the school orchestra for three years, then when I got to high school, all the seats were filled before I could have my request fulfilled to enroll in the class. I was completely devastated for almost 4 years; nearly having another bout of depression. Last Christmas, I got a cello and it was pure joy being able to play again without having to deal with whatever made me sad and depressed in the real world. I can understand what you mean by the majority of the songs you hear are mostly about sex and how good it is, but you're just looking at a single genre of music. There's much more music than what you hear on the radio, or what you hear out of the headphones of some guy that thinks he's too cool to turn his music down. Personally, the majority of music I listen to is orchestral and brings me surges of deep emotions like happiness, sadness, or anger. I may not like the emotions coming from the music, but I love it for that. It's almost like having a conversation without words! Of course I have songs that mention sex in them, but I have them because they're making fun of sex and the uses of media in it. My advice to you is if you don't like the song, don't listen to it; but never stop listening to music because you think it's a waste of time. I listen to music to help isolate me from loud noises that can distract me from doing my job. Like you, I too am an electrical engineer, I play with my microcontrollers and whatnot, but when I turn music on - my mood just gets so much better. I'm happier, I concentrate better... Heck, even my stability with my hand improves, because I can move synchronously with the beat of the music and even get the job done faster.
    • Jan 18 2014: I can play many instruments myself, can write music, use computers to generate it. "Pollution" does not mean that it shall completely disappear - it means we have to rationalize its use.

      Music like a screw driver - appears to be no more but just a tool. One can misuse a screw driver by hurting yourself and others around or to assemble things.