Poch Peralta

Freelance Writer / Blogger,

This conversation is closed.

Emotions or Cold Logic--Do you trust one more over the other?

Most intellectuals (many are law enforcers) degrade emotions (intuition) and avoid them. But in this Brain Wave Experiment, it was discovered that whoever feels the strongest emotion wins. And Brent Hoff believes our society is losing its ability to feel and express emotions

'"If you're in a lust competition, you could technically generate a lot of rage in your body and win, because this sensor that we have right now won't be able to tell the difference," says Hoff. "But really, if you're doing that, you probably have bigger problems."

'After watching hundreds of competitions, Hoff says he's noticed a few patterns.

"'In lust competitions, guys start almost immediately. But they basically have a hard time finishing, especially if people are watching," says Hoff. "Girls start slower and end up winning. It's so weirdly cliche."...'
http://mashable.com/2014/01/05/emotional-arcade/

  • Jan 12 2014: Some things the emotional and intuitive side of the brain does better, others the more rational part.

    The biggest difference is probably the trade off of quality versus speed. An emotional/intuitive decision can be made on the fly, quickly and with no pre-planning, though the quality of the decision making isn't necessarily your best. Of course, there is no real downside if you lack the information required for a more rational decision, but in that case, you're gambling either way.

    The rational mind on the other hand, knows how to make decision and calculations very well, but it takes time to do so. You can't use it to make every decision out of purely practical constraints (try thinking of the pros and cons of every single little decision you make--it'll take you until noon to leave the house in the morning). Best reserved for more important decisions, and where time isn't much of a constraint.

    Different tools, best used to solve different problems. The trick is to use the right one for each scenario. Overly relying on the emotional leads to poor decision making, while overly relying on the rational is no good with insufficient time or data, and gets quite stressful if you're not used to it.
    • thumb
      Jan 12 2014: That was an excellent exposition on the relation of time with using intuition
      or logic. Your tip about the right time for using each 'tool' is also great.
    • thumb
      Jan 12 2014: I agree Nadav, that different parts of the brain may be better at different tasks....I believe science has proven that....different tools to solve different challenges. I also agree that overly relying on either "part" for everything, may not be the best choice.

      Regarding the time factor..."quality versus speed" as you say. What do you think about the idea that when we get used to using both hemispheres of the brain, new neural pathways are formed so that connecting the "parts" facilitates the process by which we can connect with information from both parts of the brain simultaneously?

      Science has proven that we CAN create new neural pathways in the brain, and my thought/feeling, is that as multi sensory, multi dimensional humans, we CAN use all parts of the brain simultaneously. That's why I often write I thinki/feel.....I am connecting with the thinking part of the brain and the feeling part at the same time.
  • thumb
    Jan 11 2014: Good Topic.

    In my opinion there is no "dry" logic. We are non-stop emotional living beings. Emotions is our vital power and it is up to us where to direct this power. I do need my emotional energy to produce the most "cold" logical thought. No emotional flow - no life and no logic. Without this emotional power we cannot eat, or breathe.

    Some years ago I wrote (and illustrated) this Utopia "The Noble Society" about a tiny futuristic society, where individuals do not compete with anyone, but with themselves.

    This way they can improve their own abilities in their own unique ways, without hostility and aggressiveness towards others. Well, in that happy place every individual uniqueness is valued much higher than in our over-crowded world. These denizens of the "Noble Society" believe that in case of making some mistakes the individual needs to judge his own behavior - who else can be more knowledgable about what has happened? It is a very amusing and unusual place, though impossible to find on any map.
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: Speaking of energy in emotions, there are 2 kinds:
      the positive and the negative. Although most don't understand, fear is positive since it rears
      up adrenaline and prepares us for fight or flight. Anger I think is the most negative since it
      blinds our mind and eventually saps up energy.

      'Some years ago I wrote (and illustrated) this Utopia "The Noble Society" about a tiny
      futuristic society, where individuals do not compete with anyone, but with themselves...'
      That's an interesting article and concept Vera. In fact, most gurus and psychologists advice
      that competing with ourselves first is vital for success. Even the ancient American Indians
      have a parable about the war within ourselves. Thank you ma'am.
  • thumb
    Jan 11 2014: It's surprising how emotions are used more unethically than logic. Our emotions are exploited and
    used by propagandists and advertisers. Cold logic is used to deliver an efficient attack. But if the
    attack was just a reaction, then it's not probably evil.
  • Jan 10 2014: Hi Poch

    Logic reason and intelligence, fail in the face of pure emotion.

    However, consider the adage "Curiosity killed the cat", it may well have, but without the primal emotion, and driving force of curiosity; the cat would be dead anyway.

    Without the two emotions of empathy and sympathy, to serve in conjunction with logic, and rationality and so provide balanced reasoning, you have a psychopath; which is an extremely dangerous form, of intelligent robot,

    Logic and rationality are black and white; and it is the emotions that serve to provide the colors; that give meaning to our lives; even though we may possess little insight, into the colors and the meaning of our lives.

    Interesting also as to interpreting the emotions: Love and hate are generally considered to be opposites; but the actual opposite to both, is indifference; and indifference is the realm of the psychopath.

    Cheers Carl
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: You give illustrations like a class A professor Carl!

      'Without the two emotions of empathy and sympathy, to serve in conjunction with logic,
      rationality and reasoning, you have a psychopath...'
      But I'm puzzled a bit with the fact that most psycopaths were very emotional
      first before they became adept with cold logic. I mean most socios and psychos became
      depressed and very angry first with their family and environment which maltreated or abused them.
      It was as if their emotions 'trained' them to be cold-blooded with brilliant logic.

      '...it is the emotions that serve to provide the colors; that give meaning to our lives...'
      Very true. But some people like me were coerced to be emotional. Emotions have drowned us
      so we came to prefer the more tranquil cold logic.
  • thumb
    Jan 10 2014: Poch,
    I trust what I think and feel after considering ALL information based on logic, reason, intuition and instinct. I think we better serve ourselves and others by letting go of trying to "win", and focusing more on how to work together. Some other questions one may ask him/herself ....what am I trying to win....and why am I trying only to "win"? Who does this serve? What is the payoff? How is that working?
    • thumb
      Jan 10 2014: And I think you gave the best answer Colleen: use both intuition and logic.
      The importance of the experiment is that it proved emotions or intuition are useful. It doesn't matter
      if it involved one side winning. But of course I agree that 'we better serve ourselves and others
      by letting go of trying to "win", and focusing more on how to work together...'

      Thank you ma'am.
      • thumb
        Jan 11 2014: Thanks Poch:>)
        I believe in using ALL information that is available to me. There have been several similar discussions on TED....what is more important.....logic/reason OR intuition/instinct? It makes absolutely no sense to me to separate these qualities and try to decide which one is more important, useful, etc.

        In my humble perception and experience, it is much more beneficial to use BOTH TOGETHER! We can use the intuition/instinct to "feel" what might be a better, or more useful choice, and we use the logical, reasonable brain to figure out how to do it. I really think/feel that is why we have BOTH:>)

        How can it possibly make sense to deny ourselves one or the other?
  • thumb
    Jan 10 2014: Poch, I feel that is a loaded question. If you provided scenarios and then ask in this instance which would you be more likely to trust ... I would feel better.

    As law enforcement I do trust my intuition ... when the hair on the back of my neck goes up I slow down and take precautions. We have colors that we associate with this process. I used it in war also. There are times you just get a feeling that things are about to go South and you prepare for the worst .... I can't explain it but it is real.

    There is also stone cold hard facts / logic .... which cannot be denied.

    Give me a situation and I will tell you which is which. Your asking a gray question and want only black and white answers.

    I almost fell into a long answer that I would have to of recanted.

    Be well my friend. Bob.
    • thumb
      Jan 10 2014: 'Your asking a gray question and want only black and white answers.'
      I wasn't aware it was a gray question Bob. Thanks for making me aware of that.

      Here's a situation which I hope you'd consider valid:
      There was a string of petty robberies in our house which is part of a compound in which most
      of the tenants are relatives. That almost makes me sure that the thief is a relative. Of course we
      allow relatives to enter when they please. And since it's a compound, no stranger would have
      the guts to enter our house on the second floor. Either he would easily be caught entering or
      running out.

      The last time it happened, a particular relative acted strangely. He was quiet about the incident
      when before he'd be the first to meddle about it. He was also absent the whole day AFTER
      the robbery. My intuition is sure it was him. Now logic dictates that I don't confront him. I only
      have circumstantial evidence. And he is close to my mother who might suffer a stroke if I
      confront him. Which would I follow? My intuition or my logic?
      • thumb
        Jan 11 2014: You have nothing ... it is all circumstantial. To blame anyone on what you have would cause great strife within the family.

        Since there has been a "string" of petty robberies all at your house in the compound then the weak and common leak is your house. I would suggest that you take precautions. Lock doors ... lock up valuables ... take your house out of the equation. Do not make all of your security measures known such as cameras, etc ...

        The question here is do you really want to catch the thief or just stop the losses?

        In this case I would want stone solid .. beyond any doubt .... proof. After that I would consider the repercussions and very real family issues before disclosure.

        Nice try ...... LOL. The answer is ... proof ... not logic or intuition.
        • thumb
          Jan 11 2014: 'The question here is do you really want to catch the thief
          or just stop the losses?'
          Of course I want to trap the thief in the act--which is really easy--but what
          good would it do if I can't expose him because of my mother's presence?
          We could also stop the losses by moving residence which my mother favor.
          But I'm sure you know that moving is an expensive and stressful event which
          we can do anytime.

          lol I'll try to find a better illustration.
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: You triggered me to revise my question again Bob. THANKS!
  • Comment deleted

    • thumb
      Jan 10 2014: '...the reason why is cold logic has no moral code and will not function
      in a group properly without emotion as a driver...'
      I think you gave the best reason Carolyn.

      'AN example is a sociopath is not a good reasoner and has no concern for the group...'
      Great example too. But I'm puzzled a bit with the fact that most psycopaths were very emotional
      first before they became adept with cold logic. I mean most socios and psychos became
      depressed and very angry first with their family and environment which maltreated or abused them.
      It was as if their emotions 'trained' them to be cold-blooded with brilliant logic.
  • Feb 8 2014: Actually Poch I think the exact opposite is happen in society.

    Too often we're asked how do we feel - even a formula one driver after winning !

    Too little we're asked what do we think.

    And I suppose that too is reflected in the change of society in television programs, no longer are there intellectual quiz shows that show the ability of a person. Rather now we have reality shows that only show the emotional side.
    • thumb
      Feb 9 2014: lol You might as well attack the media for favoring 'emotion' because it brings them more cash. Yes Steve. You've hit a nail on the head!
  • thumb
    Feb 8 2014: 。.
    I trust both.
    "Emotions" are our ancestors' successful experiences in DNA.
    "Cold Logic" is present facts.
    I modify the former with the latter.
    • thumb
      Feb 8 2014: And I think we should Ying. There are only a few law enforcers and soldiers who practice both which makes them better than most.
  • thumb
    Jan 17 2014: Finnish Study Maps Emotions Onto A Human Body
    When you hear someone say love makes you feel warm, happy, and maybe even a little tingly, did you think it was just a figure of speech? When someone says depression leaves an empty cold feeling, did you assume it was just figurative words? A recent Finnish study published on the Proceedings of the National Academies of Science set out to test those theories by creating a body atlas that displays bodily responses to emotions. To make sure they received a more complete human study, they split the test between Finnish and Taiwanese subjects. The responses matched almost perfectly, even though the two countries have major differences in culture, diet, and language. As you can see in these images, love and happiness truly do warm our entire body, while depression and not taking a stance, leave us cold and empty.
    http://crnchy.com/news/body-atlas-of-emotions-by-finnish-researchers/
  • thumb
    Jan 12 2014: Poch, My only "method" to manage, when I was manipulated by the authorities and the blind rules, violated, robbed, choked in mad crowds etc,. was that emotionally and mentally I was NOT A VICTIM, no matter what was happening to my body… I was "above" the situation, feeling No one can manipulate my soul.

    This sort of thinking saved my life.

    Blessings!
    • thumb
      Jan 12 2014: '...and the blind rules, violated, robbed, choked in mad crowds...'
      I'm somewhat confused by the phrase. Can you explain? Anyway...

      'Killing' the emotions. We learn that or we acquire the skill by the defense mechanism of our
      mind and body. It's life-saving indeed. A true victim wrote in her book When Rabbit Howls how
      she 'killed' her emotions while she was being abused by her father since early childhood. For
      some, they either learn that skill or they go totally mad.

      I'm glad it saved your life Vera. You're a fighter and survivor!
  • thumb
    Jan 11 2014: Just a short comment regarding http://mashable.com/2014/01/05/emotional-arcade/

    My personal thought is - the "experimental" practicing within artificially furnished setup, expecially when the researchers play with children, belongs to the false sciences. These experiments are always terribly manipulated, and commonly come to the incomplete, wrong and even absurd conclusions.

    Animals behaive very differently in their own natural environment, but look "stupid" to the researchers, when they lock them up in cages. They are too perceptive and intuitive compared to humans, they know that they are trapped and cannot take for real these scientific games and "treats". So are children and some adults, whoes minds are not entirely corrupted by conventions.

    When the conditions are arftificially arranged and controlled by the experimentalists, or rulers of all sorts, we have no real personal choice, we are in a cage.
  • thumb
    Jan 11 2014: In the organized compretitions we have given at least some space to do what we can, but how do we manage in our actual life experience, when our situation becomes extreme?

    For instance, squeezed in loud crowds, when having no control over the direction in which we have been driven?
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: Ahh...sharp of you Vera.
      In competitions and games, most of our emotions are positive. We might be even happy just
      taking part in the game. Then when we apply the competition experience 'in our actual life
      experience, when our situation becomes extreme', mostly our emotions turn negative. There is
      now anxiety and negative fear.
      • thumb
        Jan 12 2014: Poch,
        How do "emotions turn negative"? It sounds like you are giving emotions a life of their own.....outside your "self"? Do you think/feel we have a choice regarding how we perceive emotions? I believe we do.....well I do anyway:>)
        • thumb
          Jan 12 2014: Isn't it obvious that our emotions naturally change according
          to circumstances we get into?

          Yes Colleen. I think we 'read' emotions according to our level of intelligence---
          psychologists having the highest level. And I believe the skill saves lives too.
          When we read and get warned that someone's anger or anxiety is so high the
          person might either kill or commit suicide, we can take steps to prevent that.
      • thumb
        Jan 12 2014: Yes Poch, we can change our emotions according to circumstances, and I suggest that if we are aware of our emotions, what triggers the emotions, how we perceive and use emotions, then emotions are not dependent on circumstances.

        I do not agree that we perceive emotions according to our level of intelligence...like psychologists as you mention. Although formal education may provide information that might help us be aware of emotions, it is not necessarily so. It appears that awareness of emotions and how we choose to perceive them can be as beneficial, or more beneficial then formal education. There are lots of very intelligent formally educated people who do not apply the information to the life experience.
        • thumb
          Jan 12 2014: 'There are lots of very intelligent formally educated people who
          do not apply the information to the life experience...'
          Or they lack the wisdom to do so. Practicality is more useful than book knowledge.
      • thumb
        Jan 12 2014: I agree Poch, that application (practicality) is generally more useful than book learnin' without application :>)

        That reminds me of one of my favorite quotes...
        "One of the great difficulties in the new order of thought is that we are likely to indulge in too much theory and too little practice".
        (Ernest Holms - "The Science of Mind")
        • thumb
          Jan 12 2014: And that quote hits the nail on the head again :-)
  • thumb
    Jan 11 2014: Poch, thank you for your wonderful comment. It is the law of nature that our emotions constantly change. When they become monotonous we lose our sensations and memory - we cannot live any longer. I guess one needs to learn how to somehow Not to get to the extreme state.

    As you mentioned when we become too emotional we easily lose our mind/control over our situation.

    Sadly it is the most popular "fashion" these days in our postmodern world - people do their best to express ourselves to the ridiculous extreme, become "dynamic"… ugly, disturbing site, and often makes you worry that these people are not well!
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: 'Sadly it is the most popular "fashion" these days in our
      postmodern world - people do their best to express ourselves to the ridiculous extreme,
      become "dynamic"…'
      Which reminds me of my convo Is TED Talks a recipe for civilisational disaster?
      'This attack on TED by Benjamin Bratton is really searing. One reason he gave for TED
      not working is over-simplification.

      'This is my rant against TED, placebo politics, "innovation," middlebrow megachurch infotainment,
      etc., given at TEDx San Diego at their invitation...'
      http://www.ted.com/conversations/22363/is_ted_talks_a_recipe_for_civi.html?c=801644

      Bratton does not seem to be 'not well' but he took a lot of criticism from my convo lol.
      Thanks again Vera.
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: Vera and Poch,
      You say..."when we become too emotional we easily lose our mind/control over our situation."

      Do we "lose" mind control, or are we giving up our ability to focus where we would like to focus?

      Considering your other conversation Vera, in which we seem to agree that humans have different "parts" of "self"....characteristics, personas and archetypes, it seems that if we are truly in touch with those "parts", we can focus our attention and energy where we choose, and therefor do not "lose" anything.
      • thumb
        Jan 11 2014: Thank you - I fixed "loose" in my sloppy writing.. Shows how quickly you understand what I'm struggling to say.
        • thumb
          Jan 11 2014: I do not perceive you as "struggling" Vera. In my perception, you express yourself very well, and it seems like we are often on the same page with feelings, thoughts and perspectives?
      • thumb
        Jan 11 2014: When I was a very young student in my art school I discovered something crucial about my perceptions. I then came to realize that it was not just my way of dealing with painting . Every artist when painting must keep COMPARING what he/she sees before depicting something on canvas. We select what we wish to put on canvas. I imagined that canvas is a blank stage of mind and it is constantly composing images or better to say some portions of images (we do not see the front and back of any subject at the same time).

        In order just to see something coherent on mind's canvas we nstinctively or willingly Compare what we pick up from what we see in our reality. One painting looks like a real bizarre but the other gives an impression of some real things with which we are familiar.

        We absolutely cannot perceive anything if we do not Compare impressions of our reality, sensations, feelings, shares, colors, smells and sounds. It is our mind that is just like an artist chooses what it feels is important, (lovely, ugly, wrong, perfect…)

        My point is that we can select in our minds only what we have compared with something else. I mean Comparison is unavoidable. When we try to understand someone we must compare our experience with what appears to be someone else's experience. Our understanding of other cannot go beyond.

        This is I'd say one of the basic natural laws of perceiving (no one has noticed this as the law yet, but it is unavoidable) THE MORE WE COMPARE THE BETTER CHOICE WE ARE ABLE TO SELECT.

        If one memorises tons of information. like some robot, one has practically very little use for this knowledge in real situations.

        I trust PERCEIVING is all about internal acting. We have to act as others in our minds, moreover act as water, trees, skies, universe… (When one memorises names and appearances of others this person does understand anyone.)
        • thumb
          Jan 11 2014: Vera,
          I agree that we often do not see all sides of an issue at the same time, and if we do not have something to relate it to, or compare it to, we may not understand. That is where I think/feel that it is good to use both logic/mind/brain AND intuition/instinct/feeling. We pick up information from what we are familiar with in our reality, as you insightfully point out, and to pick up any additional information, it helps to be open to that possibility.

          It helps to discover the deeper meaning before we can apply any information to real life scenarios. An example comes to mind.....

          I KNOW there are many different dynamics to relationships, including abusive relationships. When I was volunteering at the shelter, people often asked me why the heck I was "wasting" my time there. Those abused women just need to leave the situation....that's that!!!

          Well, ideally, logically, reasonably, that would be the answer....problem solved. However, that is not reality. There are SO many other things to consider, and often times people could not get beyond their idea of the logical thing to do.

          I also often heard....."well, if they are not leaving, they must like it". That is not reality either, and again, those folks could not get beyond their own "logical" answers to be able to consider other factors.

          If people genuinely are interested in learning about others, it helps to have an open mind, open heart, and listen to some things that are probably beyond what some people can imagine.
        • thumb
          Jan 11 2014: 'My point is that we can select in our minds only what we have
          compared with something else...'
          Reminds me of this philosophy: Something becomes reality only when two persons
          agree it exists.
      • thumb
        Jan 11 2014: We are talking about understanding among different people in this conversation, about compassion based on internal acting and imagination. It seems miraculous that we can succeed in our understanding just by exchanging our messages here, without even knowing who we are, in person. I actually do struggle, my task is to deliver some of the ideas that have not been put together before… You so encourage me :) I was quiet for many years but now I feel that someone, besides a few heavy scholars, might understand me easily.
        • thumb
          Jan 12 2014: Thank you for that kind feedback Vera:>)

          Many people have encouraged and supported me through the life experience, and it feels good when I can pass on that encouragement and support, because I believe that we are all here to support each other in our life journey:>)
  • Jan 11 2014: Your Welcome Poch

    Happy New Year

    Cheers Carl

    Ps: I also believe that society is losing it ability to feel and express its emotions; and that this is due to both the use of a digital medium; and the constant and ever increasing amount of bloody and vicious violence portrayed; that serves to desensitize both children, and susceptible adults, to the on going effects and repercussions of violence.

    This form of desensitization can be observed in Trial Judges, whereby the longer they have been on the bench, and exposed to so many cases of violence; they lose their ability to empathize with the victims of violence, and mete out lighter sentences.
  • Comment deleted

    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: Hi Keray. Is this related to the topic? You gave no indication it is.
      • thumb
        Jan 11 2014: No it is spam. New account with the exact same message displayed on multiple conversations.

        I'd suggest being vigilant and using the flag to report spam before it ruins yet another good website
  • Jan 11 2014: Hi Poch

    I agree, and you can see the constant unethical, and Machiavellian abuse of our emotions taking place, in the form of the constant and ever increasing bombardments of fraudulent advertising, that we cannot escape as it is hitting us from every conceivable direction; TV, Phones, Radio, Billboards, Mail boxes, Computers.

    And no one stops to ask by what right? Did we ask our governments to give these money grubbing, and dishonest parasites the right to invade every aspect of our privacy, and harass us; no we did not; but then our governments do not give a damn about the punters, masses, battlers, ordinary Joe; until it comes to elections; and those who they claim to serve, and have not, suddenly turn into voters.

    Sorry Poch, I disagree as to cold logic delivering an efficient attack; because if you use logic, rationality in conjunction with empathy, as a means of observing the situation through your adversaries eyes, and therefore as a means of gauging their probable emotional reaction, relative to anticipating their subsequent physical reactions/actions; then you stand a better chance, of efficiently being able, to kick their proverbial backsides.

    Cheers Carl
    • thumb
      Jan 11 2014: '...if you use logic, rationality in conjunction with empathy,
      as a means of observing the situation through your adversaries eyes, and therefore as a
      means of gauging their probable emotional reaction, relative to anticipating their subsequent
      physical reactions/actions; then you stand a better chance...'
      I see your point Carl. Thanks for that.