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What's your opinion on Unconditional Basic Income? (This is not Communism)

The Basic Income movement is one that is quickly gaining ground around the world. Both prominent right and left wing persons have given their support for this idea.

What's your thoughts on Basic Income, do you think it's a good idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
http://www.reddit.com/r/BasicIncome/

EDIT: I forgot to mention (in case you haven't heard) that what sprout the movement was Switzerland's proposal for basic income ($2800 monthly). http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-swiss-pay-idUSBRE9930O620131004


EDIT 2: This is NOT meant as a universal cure for all the problems of the world, things like education, politics, corruption and deceases are separate issues (even though Basic Income might help with them) if you wish to solve those issues please join or start a conversation about those. However discussing them with respect of BI is very fine and encouraged.

Please try to NOT sway too far from the topic, which is "What's your opinion on Unconditional Basic Income?". Comments to others opinions are of course free to go far from the topic, but preferably not too far.

And please try to be constructive and mature in your comments to others on this conversation.

Also please read AT LEAST the provided Wikipedia article on Basic income as it will answer many questions posted here.


Thank you for reading this explanation...(?)

Topics: basic income
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Closing Statement from Jimmy Strobl

Wow, thank you ALL for your contributions to this conversation!

There's no way that I'm going to be able to summarize what was said here.
But I do feel that people might be ready for this transition or at least they are able to be convinced that it is feasible.

Anyway, thank you all for your participation and sorry for the lack of response the last few days.

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  • Jan 2 2014: In a capitalistic society such as the one which made us great, the people vote with their money on who and what they like. Their choices are often foolish but freedom means being free to do what other consider foolish. The choices of our wise government officials are often foolish as well and freedom means they can`t impose their choices on us. I agree that raising a family of honest and compassionate children is a worthy enterprise but you perhaps haven`t heard Manishka that families are not "in" any more. Any kind of interpersonal arrangement is to be applauded as equally good for society.
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      Jan 2 2014: Henry, there's a reply option that you can use that makes it all easier to follow. It's not guaranteed that the people you intended to reply to will see this message otherwise.

      The reply option is a little red text, located approximately 4 inches to the right of the user name in each post. Or do you simply wish to be on top all the time?
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      Jan 3 2014: OK HERE are Henry Neu's comments collated so we can follow them better.

      3 days ago: Our opinion of our self is based on our estimation of our worth. Providing a basic income to people will remove the need for striving to accomplish and keep us fat, happy, and unmotivated. Is this a contribution to our species.The happiness in superficial. We know we have accomplished nothing. Its like receiving an education by watching television. Only by striving and achieving can we feel in our hearts we are contributing.

      2 days ago: Worth as I used it meant the value of the individual in advancing our understanding of and providing for members of our species. The things you mention make up our duties and if well executed away and not solely directed toward the individual in question, can be worthy contributions.
      I doubt that materialism would be lessened by giving people money. How high should wages be to keep the non materialistic worker content?
      The fact that youngsters just out of high school don`t make a decent wage - that is a wage large enough to house and feed a family - I don`t see as a problem. To the extent they contribute to the income of the company, they will be seen a valuable asset and their salary increased.

      1 day ago: This proposal would change the attitudes of most workers toward their job. Dont like the way the supervisor wants it done. Screw him. My way is better.Don`t feel like work today. I`m sleeping in. Let the garbage pile up. It was a crummy job anyway. I`d rather finish one of my "do it in the lines" paintings.
      Assume we are in this system and all basic needs are supplied. Who would gather the garbage? Who would replace my roof during the hot summer? These repetitious jobs would command the best salaries. Would the best people go (part time) to the highest paying jobs? It turns the whole thing upside down. Whose going to bother to become a doctor or a teacher when the rewards are considered unfair.
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      Jan 3 2014: 1 day ago: Let me make one other comment. Dont judge the results of this system too hastily. When you drop social system A on a group formed under social system B you won`t see the impact immediately. If they have learned thrift and working hard under system A It will take a while to degrade under system B.

      1 day ago: Activities don`t validate a persons worth,. Accomplishments achieved through striving.do. I see the term decent wages frequently. Decent wages are:
      1. Enough to keep one individual in a two room apartment.
      2. Enough to with the spouse working to rent a small home and have two cars.
      3 Enough to be admired by all of your friends and live in a ten million dollar house in Beverly Hills.
      The amount paid in wages has to be the amount taken in minus business expenses minus the profit which is the owners salary.. I never seem to see a demand for higher owner returns..

      4 hours ago: No, I didn`t realize the exchange of labor for money was old hat I guess i`m just an old fashioned guy.But this country was made great not by a a curious characteristic of the people who live here but by the form of government that insistently demanded its citizens were doers. First the few hours of dreaming then the years of implementation.
      Technology and its ability to produce goods using fewer man hours is here and will only increase. The need for unskilled labor can only drop. What to do?. I dont know but the Mormons may have a good idea. They operate farms and when one of their members is in financial trouble they help him and he in turn is obliged to work on their farm.
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      Jan 3 2014: Still Henry Neu's comments...

      3 hours ago: In a capitalistic society such as the one which made us great, the people vote with their money on who and what they like. Their choices are often foolish but freedom means being free to do what other consider foolish. The choices of our wise government officials are often foolish as well and freedom means they can`t impose their choices on us. I agree that raising a family of honest and compassionate children is a worthy enterprise but you perhaps haven`t heard Manishka that families are not "in" any more. Any kind of interpersonal arrangement is to be applauded as equally good for society.
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        Jan 3 2014: Thank you so much for collect this Manishka! It was kind of getting all over the place...

        So it would only be suitable for me to add my comment that I made to him previously.

        "Hi Henry,

        I'm guessing that you did not read any of the links provided in the explanation...

        BI is NOT communism! You say "Our opinion of our self is based on our estimation of our worth.", that wont change with BI, people that work will get BI + income. So it provides the basic (as suggested in the name) amount of money you need to get by. But if you want to MAKE money you have to work.

        So your argument that it would not create incentive to work does not hold. Would you yourself stop working if you could get by by doing nothing or would you strive to achieve something by working?"
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          Jan 3 2014: Terrific Jimmy!

          now I can respond without repeating arguments already made!

          " Let me make one other comment. Dont judge the results of this system too hastily. When you drop social system A on a group formed under social system B you won`t see the impact immediately. If they have learned thrift and working hard under system A It will take a while to degrade under system B."

          I find this statement a bit contradictory: Don't judge too hastily.....it will degrade under B

          Definitely the first few countries will be watched closely. We do live in the big data era. Incidentally, have seen the analyses of the pilot programs mentioned in this article?

          https://decorrespondent.nl/541/why-we-should-give-free-money-to-everyone/20798745-cb9fbb39
          They measured how much people would reduce their working hours... turns out not much. In an age of increasing automation, that may be a good thing.. more leisure, room for more people to work fewer hours and more minds and perspectives at work.
    • Jan 3 2014: " I agree that raising a family of honest and compassionate children is a worthy enterprise but you perhaps haven`t heard Manishka that families are not "in" any more".

      If you live in America, then you're probably right. I'm pretty sure that everywhere else in the world, or at least in countries with a culture, families are still essential. Your children are your legacy, the proof that your genes have survived. If it's no longer important to raise children with great and righteous moral values, then we might as well start WW3 and reduce the world population so that the future generations can think better than we do now. Good moral values go a long way.
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        Jan 3 2014: I'm afraid i have no comment on family values and what is moral at the moment because we're talking about taxes and the distribution of it.
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      Jan 3 2014: And here's my response from the earlier comment. I've deleted my old comment so it can be moved here

      "worth" can have a lot of meanings.

      people frequently base their self-worth on looks, social skills, parenting skills, artistic skills, not necessarily on how much money they were able to bring in. Some people do base their self-worth on money, but nowhere near all.

      A person's "worth" to a company is expressed in money.

      A person's "worth" to society is in their contributions to society, not necessarily through their job. compare a telemarketing job to a mom who organizes field trips for the whole class.

      A person's "worthiness" for getting a roof over their head, food to eat, medicine to help them keep breathing is in the fact that they were born.
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      Jan 3 2014: If it's true that families are no longer "in", Henry, then issues of UBI, capitalism, socialism, etc. are irrelevant, as, without families, all economic, social, spiritual, moral and ethical issues are moot, as humanity, and all its issues, shall be no more.
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        Jan 3 2014: Aren't we more just like one big huge family, all of us nowadays?
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          Jan 4 2014: Absolutely, Jimmy, and we always have been; we've simply lost sight of our connection. It seems that the strategy of any group or individual who has craved power or exclusivity has been to "divide and conquer", and it's incumbent upon the rest of us to show them, and each other, the error and the foolishness of these deliberate disconnections.
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        Jan 4 2014: The internet is truly amazing when it comes to human beings making connections with each other, and as long as we get to keep it it will become increasingly hard to divide us and therefore conquer.

        But there are also great forces in work that wish to restrict our possibility to surf the web. Every year I join with millions to fight these attempts a couple of times per year. However this year we face the biggest threat yet, an agreement between oppressive states (and many that are not seen as oppressive) and the biggest corporations of the world. It's called the Trans-Pacific Partnership and I assure you that there are great forces at work that constantly game the internet with such things as Google results and disrupt online forum conversations about it.

        You can read about it on Avaaz (the biggest collaorative outcries for change and all that is just and right on the web) if you wish http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_the_corporate_death_star/

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