This conversation is closed. Start a new conversation
or join one »
When, How and Why have your most strongly held views changed?
I'm interested in transformative "In situ" social change.
There is research and opinion that adults face tremendous obstacles to changing their views. That education helps, but generally isn't enough. Of if views change, they do so because of traumatic life experiences or in times and places beyond their everyday lives. Such as in college or experiences in other geographical cultures.
Most particularly, it appears, change evolves in deep-reflection when hidden and/or hard to accept truths emerge. There is also evidence that this occurs in sustained relationships structured around relationally developed trust and intentional dialogues about values, including opposing views.
So, what you think? Have you changed? When, how, why? And, if applicable, who else was involved?
Extra points for "in situ" change -- change achieved in home communities or familiar cultures.
Many thanks in advance for your comments,
Andrea
Closing Statement from Andrea Morisette Grazzini
Thank you all for so energetically engaging in this dialogue.
The breadth and depth of the comments and interaction between all has been quite rich. I can't help but feel this discussion amounts to a small example of "in situ" change in action.
Many illuminations have been shared and in the process, others emerged.
As each person has communicated parts of their story here, something like dynamic transformation can be detected. Perhaps not as much in individual ideals as in new understandings of the universal mix of simple and complex realizations of change and the possibilities for co-reflection.
Differences in our ages, experiences and perspectives make the discussion even more rich and dimensional. And yet shared themes are clearly evident -- most powerfully -- some of these were developed in the simple act of telling.
I would say what we have here is something of a small organically developed cultural enclave. Wherein each individual voice comes through clear, while the sum of all in relationship gives it a novel, community-style substance and form.
To carry this momentum forward I am going to build on our discussion, in the following ways:
First -- I will build another question related to this conversation, including Revett's thoughts on how, so we can delve deeper. Keep an eye for this--coming soon!
Second -- I will seek ways to capture Lindsay's observations of this "Choir of Inner Voices" in some lasting format. Stay tuned for developments!
Meanwhile, I am very grateful for the candor of your comments and interactions.
Hope you'll join "our" continuing story. I suspect there is much more we can unfold together....
Andrea
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
The breadth and depth of the comments and interaction between all has been quite rich. I can't help but feel this discussion amounts to a small example of "in situ" change in action.
Many illuminations have been shared and in the process, others emerged.
As each person has communicated parts of their story here, something like dynamic transformation can be detected. Perhaps not as much in individual ideals as in new understandings of the universal mix of simple and complex realizations of change and the possibilities for co-reflection.
Differences in our ages, experiences and perspectives make the discussion even more rich and dimensional. And yet shared themes are clearly evident -- most powerfully -- some of these were developed in the simple act of telling.
I would say what we have here is something of a small organically developed cultural enclave. Wherein each individual voice comes through clear, while the sum of all in relationship gives it a novel, community-style substance and form.
To carry this momentum forward I am going to build on our discussion, in the following ways:
First -- I will build another question related to this conversation, including Revett's thoughts on how, so we can delve deeper. Keep an eye for this--coming soon!
Second -- I will seek ways to capture Lindsay's observations of this "Choir of Inner Voices" in some lasting format. Stay tuned for developments!
Meanwhile, I am very grateful for the candor of your comments and interactions.
Hope you'll join "our" continuing story. I suspect there is much more we can unfold together....
Andrea
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
art haschak
Ednei Ribeiro
Muitos conceitos do passado, ligados à religião, à política e à educação moral se transformaram em mim, com a ajuda importante da informação, em razão do avanço tecnológico nessa área.
Creio que as minhas mudanças internas me transormaram num homem melhor.
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Life is a transformation. You're not always the same. Everything
changes, including you. But after 50 years of age, more mature, more
experienced, more pressured, more beloved, more sensitive, more
informed, is that the changes become clearer.
Many of my past concepts regarding religion, politics and moral
education have changed, due to important information regarding
technological advances in this area.
I believe that my internal changes turned me into me a better man.
sulav duwal 30+
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Shalu Bhuchar
So I believe it's not necessarily traumatic incidents that trasform beliefs, but also conscious thought processes that allow us to alter our own belief systems and conversations about ourselves and life.
Debra Smith 200+
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Thank you for sharing your "non-traumatic experience induced" transformation. A wonderful exception and example of the power and possibility for embracing, coaxing and achieving change in a proactive, rather than reactive way.
If you can, it would be interesting to hear you share more about which strongly held beliefs you felt were disempowering. And, how those around you, specifically the family you mention, reacted to your transformation.
Andrea
Minou Norouzi 50+
For me ageing has been the single most humbling change-making process, one I am able to observe daily with wonder thinking: wow I didn't expect that! This process has greatly inspired my work but also my approach and attitude towards people.
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
What a beautiful phrase -- "diamond sparkly currency called youth." Aging can have a burnishing effect on some, so that while the changes perhaps dim some of the perceived sparkly, they meanwhile can seem to sharpen other gem-like qualities.
As I approach middle-age I notice certain others my age radiate something deeper, less symmetrical--less superficially "perfect" and often much more complex. But of value and beauty, too.
Andrea
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Izabela Souza
Durval Castro 200+
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Most appreciate your translation of Izabela's comment, Durval.
And Izabela,
Your lovely note embodies your point about intent. My sense it that where intent is scaffolded by mutual interests in well-being of others as much as self, mutual transformations are perceivable. The challenge is communicating and sustaining these with patience and persistence. This requires deep commitment and can be quite difficult when sands are shifting all around.
Andrea
Andrea
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Deepa Natarajan
Debra Smith 200+
Austin R 20+
Joshua Beers
Comment deleted
Joshua Beers
Joshua Beers
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Joshua Beers
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Joshua Beers
Debra Smith 200+
Joshua Beers
Ib Margido Grønmo
The first change came about when I was introduced to Jacque Fresco and his lifelong work. To be more spesific, the application of the scientific method to social concern. What is objective and what is relative, our relationship to communication and how we project our "values" instead of asking questions.
The second understading was a product of Jacques train-of-thought, it sparked a much more powerful tool for self-reflection in me. I would suddenly not juggle back and forth between reflection, and being myself. Gradually, reflection became me. In reflecting, one takes on the role of the observer and philosopher, this is important.
For example: There is no external enemy, the only enemy, if it can even be called that, is inside ones self. Lets say that a conflict arises between you and your fellow human, for this conflict to even exist, you have to be a part of it. The over-exercised "conflict" is an objective one, because a relative conflict cannot exist, but in reality, neither can the objective one. Lets examine.
I say the world is flat, you say the world is round. The answer to this question does not exist in me or you, it exists outside of us. Both of us have the tools to deduce and theorize as to what the truth might be, but the truth itself exists independently. So in reality the earth is round, there is no conflict in this regard. The assumption that this truth comes from me or you is inherently false, and that is where the conflict lies. No one can really disagree about anything, but you can play with things that are relative. Question, do you disagree with yourself?
This mismash of relative opinions with objective truths has to stop, our communication is plagued by it, communication in most science is eloquent, yet ape-like in our society.
The change in me was recognizing the mismash, as a result I can truly communicate with my family, namely all humans.
A lovely thread Andrea.
Will Peterson
I grew up a republican in a heavily democratic Northeast Mpls.
Now I am a registered democrat in a conservative/republican enclave (Colo. Spgs, CO)
I learned a great deal at "the U" and became much less conservative while in Education, Sociology, and History. I also ran Freshman Camps - I was hauled kicking and screaming toward listening to anthers' story
After school (there no teaching positions available) I changed into a technician- type in printing,but kept READING - That was a constant.
By this time I was much more liberal than my Dad could stand.
I traveled to Europe and changed more!
I became a solid and steady citizen raising two (wonderful) children. Now I'm getting over that.
The fact is that I altered my life at many junctions along the way. School, College, Graduate school, work, children all changed what I thought and did but... The attitude inside never DID really alter.
SO, I became more liberal working with conservatives as well as more conservative among liberals.
I'll finish later.
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
I can't help but make a personal connection. I spent time in North Minneapolis yesterday, a place I find myself drawn to because the diverse people represent what to me seem more authentic, less mediated by norms characteristics somehow.
It's a cultural and sometimes "messy" mix, but has an appealing ideal and persistence against odds for figuring out ways to change and evolve within community.
Beyond (or perhaps related to?) this connection: You leave me curious about what is your "attitude inside" that didn't really alter?
Andrea
PS: As a teacher, perhaps you'll appreciate this dispatch from your home town:
1000 jobs will come to the area next year when Minneapolis schools relate their offices there.
Joshua Ford
Comment deleted
George Spilkov
However hypocrisy is common in both cases.
It is remarkable how little integrity there is between claimed beliefs,views and actions when the going gets tough or the stakes are high.
SO, do not look at what people say (as views) but measure them by what they do.
I personally changed my views from "one day I will make a difference in the world" to "I will disappear in oblivion like the billions before me".
From "money are not important for happiness" to "that is what poor tell themselves to make their misery more bearable".
From "it is a free world and we have rights" to "we have rights only if and when they are given to us" and my experience of how police and military minds treat people confirms it.
From "one man can stand against the system" to "The system is likely to chew on you and spit you out and if any change happens as a result, it is likely you would not benefit from it." It is so because the first priority for any person in charge of authoritative structure is to remain in control, the judgement on 'right' or 'wrong' is secondary.
From "wealth could come with hard work" to "wealth could only come if you externalise costs i.e. to take much more than you give back".
From "I watch TV and listen to the news" to "TV is to brainwash us by telling us what to think. Mass media is a tool used by those in power".
From "Love is all I need in marriage" to " I hope some healthy female with good genes would be fullish enough to get pregnant by me thus making me the happiest person in the world. There are so many other good suitors. I would never understand why would someone pick me if that ever happens".
From Idealist I became realist (and as it turns out reality is cynical, cruel, unforgiving and I can not function in it because in my heart I still have irrational beliefs,views)....Sadly, I still want to be a super hero of a kind.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
It sounds like your views have become more narrowly focused on the negative. This perspective prevents one from being frustrated and discouraged as much but it also missed opportunities and potential.
Our perspective of reality depends on the frame we view it through, the filters that limit our vision and what we focus our attention on. Life seems better when we have a large frame, clear filters and flexibility where we focus.
I would encourage you to find some time for relaxation and fun and spend some time reflecting on what is in your heart, what you might become passionate about. It sounds like you would love to be a father. Check out volunteering with kids. What can you learn, change, do to make it likely that a healthy female might be honored to have a child with you?
Look beyond the frame that only includes what is negative and nasty. Set aside filters of cynicism and hopelessness, focus on creating a long-term view that might bring satisfaction and fulfillment and discern what you can do now to begin heading in that direction.
Try viewing your world through eyes of compassionn, hope, humility and what you personally can do to improve things. I'll be rooting for you.
Bob
George Spilkov
Your words sound like those of a counsellor or therapist of a kind.
I'll root for you too... it cost me nothing, really.
I used to be compassionate and help and do favours. The moment people found out about my behaviour they started asking for favours and began to expect them. Some of them even got angry at me if I say no.
I think I stopped looking at things in a positive or negative way. Those are subjective categories. There is a saying that drives me these days "Plan for the worst, hope for the best". For that to happen one has to know the worst possible outcome in each situation.
Do you know what I think makes me a good person these days? That is when I see how I can take advantage in a situation on the expense of others and I decide not to do it. Example: I found a mobile phone and I returned it to the owner without any reward. The usual practice is to ask for reward. And guess what, the happy owner did not even offer one. He just said "Nice one." and walked away. Did he think of me as a fool or he was greedy or I looked so holly to him that any mentioning of reward would have damage his mental image of me. I do not know, but it would have been nice to have the option to refuse a reward.
I'll keep an eye how my life is going to see if you rooting for me have some effect.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
True compassion realizes that allowing people to take advantage of us is not helpful to them or us. Reinforcing someone's selfishness is not compassion in my understanding.
I don't think human relationships are like economic transactions where one makes an accounting of effort and reward. I applaud you for returning the phone and believe that simple acts such as that enlarge our hearts. Expecting a reward undermines that.
If I act from the heart and someone thinks me a fool, I will momentarily feel sad for them and move on.
I agree with you that planning for the worst is a helpful strategy when faced with a potential crisis but using that attitude day-to-day would seem to limit our vision and perspective as well as dampen energy and optimism.
I don't find "positive thinking" very helpful but rather strive for clear thinking that takes both opportunities and risk into account. Ignoring opportunities and focusing only on risk leads to hopelessness whereas ignoring risk leads to unnecessary harm.
Comment deleted
George Spilkov
Nice try. Feed your mind with fairy tales and stories then open the door and step into the real world where misery and suffering are common and all the rest is often a wishful thinking. Explain that. If your story is to be believed statistically there is 50% chance people to behave in one of the ways described in the story. Why then since the beginning of human evolution there are more people acting in paranoid selfish way than those of the other type. I'll tell you why. Because the ape that did not act out of fear got eaten by predators. Because at times when there was no food the one that was greedy and angry got to eat and survive. Cooperation only emerges out of necessity in some situations where the pay-off of acting alone is less than to cooperate. The moment the situation changes the cooperation falls apart.
There is a difference between being cynical and being objective. And you wish my reasoning was the former. It makes it so much easier in your mind to just bang a label of condemnation on something and move on.
To Bob V.O.
I was (views-wise) where you are,Bob, and I can tell you one indisputable fact - the real data of the world does not fit the theory in most parts. So I had to change my theory about things to best fit the data.
It comes down to choice: If all else is equal do you trust until proven wrong or do you distrust until proven wrong. I guess how one makes that choice partly depends on one's past experience and how much pain one can take.
However I'll submit to you that even in our normal everyday interactions in society we often first have to establish our "credentials"(or identity or worth) before we commence further activities. It is "first check then trust" or in other words "we do not trust until proven wrong" principle.
Bob,you wrote of"clear thinking"and yet your words make me feel as if I am reading religious gospel.Bob, we live in a world where ultimately we have to compete for access to resources.
I wish I had more space.
David Don
Here is a post I borrowed somewhere on TED just for you:
Here is an old story that might help change negative views.
An old Cherokee was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said to them, "A battle is raging inside me. It is a terrible fight between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."
The old man fixed the children with a firm stare. "This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too."
They thought about it for a minute and then one child asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"
The old Cherokee replied: "The one you feed."
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
Maybe people act in paranoid, selfish ways because they live in paranoid selfish environments made up of people who think that is the safest way to live.
Revett Eldred 10+
What happened to change you from the hero you wanted to be into the cynic you have become?
I truly hope you can find a path back to the way you were.
Kris Stephens
The question of community is difficult. I am now in my fifties and I find myself in situations where I am either around people who are like-minded or who are looking to me for some sort of guidance. I believe that community plays an enormous part in influencing how and what people think; but changing deeply held beliefs takes a certain kind of "inner permission."
Thank you for giving me something new to take around and wonder.
Daniel Melendez
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Your closer emotionally = greater alteration assessment is very intriguing.
Divorce seems to have produced culturally transformative doubt. I note this having had experience with "PTDD." Though I do believe healing many of its acute aspects is possible.
Some say Western culture's propulsion of individualism above all is at the core of the "divorce problem." As an encompassing -- if simplistic indictment, I agree. But with this huge asterisk: divorce is exceedingly complex -- if not capriciously so. Any attempt to isolate blame faces deeply convoluted, if not dangerous judgements of endless contextual issues.
Not least of these are ubiquitous institutionalized methods and cultures that, even if necessity and ideals are well-intended, often undermine the human value most intrinsically desire -- to maintain sustained relationships.
A question to ponder, then, is: can transformative doubt move forward or make space for new or more dimensional and constructive beliefs? Relevant to relationships: how could these be achieved with others? More to your response -- have you experienced this at any levels?
Andrea
Daniel Melendez
There are many aspects to this but the one I am focusing is that the pain of the divorce process, and the new coping involved impacted my thinking about higher powers, the capacity of otherwise good people to engage in toxic confliict, and such. I could readily use a different example but this one hit my affective universe order the most, and I realized that my mystical framework was insufficient to help me withstand the emotional effects on me. That is when I formed the opinion that the closer the emotional effect, the stronger the potential to alter my beliefs. As to your last question, which is very interesting, I think that what matters is the set of values by which I process the doubt. Of course, personality also plays a role (e.g., if you are conflict-averse, you won't be likely challenging anyone directly) since not all is cognitively-processed. In some sense I wonder, aren't all fundamental doubts ultimately transformative or have transformative potential? Let me put it another way. Have you ever tried to change an aspect of your personality you did not like? What is involved in that? I suspect changing some beliefs - the deep ones - maybe similar.
You got me thinking.
Daniel
Debra Smith 200+
Revett Eldred 10+
Debra Smith 200+
Revett Eldred 10+
Huh?
Debra Smith 200+
Revett Eldred 10+
Perhaps my ability to joke about my ex without getting killed in the process is an example that supports what I said above. I will lay a substantial wager that her jokes about me are far worse than mine about her!
Debra Smith 200+
Philipp Wettmann
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Philipp Wettmann
It seems to me, that it is an ongoing process, with my inbuilt desire to do do things different, than others do them as starting point, and the trustworthy internal gyroscope, you mentioned, as a wish for the future.
You just reminded me of something. One of the major steps on this way must have been, that I read, at about age 16 about Herman Hesse´s novel "Siddatha" on Wikipedia. So maybe, I did not findout myself, but was told by others and belifed it, that there is not just a wish, but an unavoidable need, to find my own way of approximating truth :)
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Susan Zhao
tijuana richardson
Sarina Hannon
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Sarina Hannon
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
Your transformation is very relevant given the many challenges students (and educators) face.
I've witnessed something similar in two boys identified as needing tutoring. Though I was supposed to be teaching them, they taught me. It occurred to me as I observed them in action how their unseen brilliance reminded me of the brilliance of PhDs and academics I know.
I wrote of the boys and, sure enough! Experts identified as the "best and brightest" by cultural measurements were exactly the ones most likely to relate the most to these two "challenged" boys. It brought back memories of their own "behaviors" and "affects" as children.
And, to this day informs my views about the intellectual depth of people -- like you -- who demonstrate it by seeing the brilliance of "unlikely" others.
Here is link to "What academics and policy-makers could learn from kids" -- http://bit.ly/P7ljt
Perhaps you'll see connections I'm making to you/your story.
Many thanks for sharing it!
Andrea
Rishabh Tagore 10+
Sarina Hannon
My turning point began at a specific moment, but is still growing I think. About 8 years ago, I was seated, in school next to the 'worst' kid (by my standards, and the instructor's) in the entire school. She thought I would rub off on him, and told me to straighten him out. About a week later, after I had ignored him, and thought down on him, and shushed him a couple of times, I was struggling to complete a miniature craft-like engineering project. My fear of utter failure was overwhelming me, time was running out, and the boy could tell. He pulled my project in front of him- my thought reaction was 'he's gonna smash it' my stomach contorted, and I could feel my eyes getting puffy and my chest getting angry.. Even before I could say something, he fixed my project. Ingeniously. Perfectly, and in a way that was brilliant, but not based on the instructions. For the first time ever, I completely ignored what the teacher had to say and thought about what he had done. He was a paradox to my old belief system.
Debra Smith 200+
Sarina Hannon
ann malloy
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Krisztián Pintér 200+
another metamorphoses was political/economic. earlier my point of view was that of an engineer. how can we fix the world with policies, regulations, systems, etc. then i met the austrian school of economics, and now i understand the futility and disservice of such ideas. before, i treated people as problems, sheep to shepherd. today i see people as opportunities. the myriad of individual minds is our key to a better future.
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
The sheep to shepherd model of social change echoes religious and/or, perhaps even somewhat communitarian models. Whereas the myriad of individual minds as key suggests more constructivist thinking. Can you share more of your experiences with this? Particularly, have you personally engaged with others as co-productive people creating solutions? What did you observe in yourself and others?
Andrea
Krisztián Pintér 200+
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
Makes a lot of sense, great answer.
Bob Van Oosterhout 20+
The question you raise is one I have reflected on throughout my career in teaching and counseling: After 35 years of work with thousands of people, there are a few things that are consistently present when patients or students describe new perspectives that change their lives. First, there is an emotional experience. Most often this is a connection and opening but it can also grow out of emptiness and loneliness; Second, there is a significant reduction of stress and tension; and, Third, there is a perceptual shift where they see a larger picture more clearly.
The emotional experience creates an atmosphere of trust and acceptance and/or provide incentive for change. Stress and tension narrow our focus so resolving them allows us to see a larger picture more clearly. When we see more clearly, we realize the narrowness of our previous point of view. (As we continue this process, we realize that our perspective is always relatively narrow even as it expands. I wish I could remember who said “The epitome of knowledge is knowing what we do not know.”)
Lindsay Newland Bowker 50+
lynn eschbach 30+
It was the first time that I recall experiencing that type of 'connection': fleeting, yet powerful. Powerful in that it steered me to a place of simply being a part of the human race and acknowledging the gifts we have for one another. Since then, I recognize these connections more often. I cherish them. I think my eyes light up when I experience them.
These connections are the very stuff of life for which one must be in the present to appreciate. Agendas create a fog. Self Absorption builds a &*%^ wall ! Anger shoots the messenger. Sitting on a park bench, watching people go by, is a wonderful way to begin practicing realizing these enchanting moments . . . or whatever transpires.
In conclusion, perhaps if people became more aware of those around them, these powerfully transformative connections could enlighten our thinking about eachother and thus begin the slow climb up the mountain.
Andrea Morisette Grazzini 30+
What is powerful about your turning point, is that the stranger, I presume, had no idea the profound impact their smile had on you. Which leads to the realization of one's power to impact others with no knowledge of their power to do so. And, the reverberating impacts of their power.
Your comments about living in the the present, with intentional awareness of both self and others speaks to a phenomenological approach to transformation. Experienced as it occurs in it's purest interpretation by you.
On a personal note: I have a friend whose father was recently diagnosed with brain tumor. I'm grateful you shared your story, so I can in turn, share it with her as a touchpoint "sent" by you: a stranger passing in cyberspace, so to speak.
Andrea