- AbdelRahman Siddig
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Life was made to be certain not doubtful
We all know there is right way and wrong way in life
but we agree in the materialistic part of life
like 1+1=2
and if the car speed is 100 KM/H it will go 50 KM in 30 minutes
if any one gave any other answer we all with absolute certainty will say he is wrong
but in the non materialistic part of life
what believe ,action is right or wrong ?
we disagree
for this purpose of disagreement Allah The Creator sent His messengers to solve this disagreement ,but some people reject the messengers as referee
they want to be the referee them not the messengers
who can tell this right and this wrong ?
let us take football as analogy
to be play football you must score goals in your opponent goal not in yours with out using your hands
if you fail to score goal or you try to use your hands you will never win in football game
why because you did not either understood the rule of the game or you understood you do not want to follow it
but who made this rule do not use your hands?
the Creator of the game
other game creator who like the use of hands to score goals Invented a game called Handball where you must use your hand only to score goal
if you try to win in football using handball rules our your own rules surely you will fail
the First step towards been right in life
1- Find the life Creator
2- understand his policy (the rules of life what is right and what is wrong )
3- Finally start practicing you will still do some times , something wrong
but you know your goal is to do the right acts
The sorry part of our disagreement sound illogical when people went to the extreme and said there is no Life Maker and life made it self which is linguistically wrong statement
the explanation made @ 4:07 of the Big History talk
is an absolute underestimation of the logic
EDIT
{1 -Every product MUST have a manufacture
2-Each manufacture MUST have an intention before he made his product
3- The more amazing the product the more wonderful the manufacture }
AbdelRahman Siddig
but was about
I must be sure what is correct and what is wrong
like its correct to cross in green light and stop at red light
I may cross in red for some reason but this does not mean crossing in red is correct
Antonio Robateau
If I were to draw it, it would begin in the present time with our actions being perceived as very certain and deliberate, not doubtful at all. Then as the 'now' timeline progresses into the 'future' effect of those actions, the line of certainty quickly dips, if not falls, down into uncertainty and doubt as we were only in apparent control of our actions and 'cause' but not the outcomes and 'effect'. Then, as the timeline progresses further out into 'eternity' the line curves back up into certainty as the apparent chaos of near-cause and near-effect fit together beautifully towards a amazingly orchestrated destiny.
This relationship line between certainty and time would be in the shape of a U to me as this is how my 30+ years of life has repeatedly shown.This leads into faith. Whether believer or atheist, there is agreement that we are certain of what we do now and uncertain of the near consequences or effect. For example, I can be certain that I am making an effort to do something seemingly good (to whatever purpose) but it can still turn out wrong as a direct result, yet in the long run things still 'work out' for the best after the flux time period between 'Now' and 'Destiny'.
This natural phenomenon leads to the necessity of faith during the chaos knowing that we did our best effort in the past and must now endure the uncertain near-effects knowing that destiny will repeat itself as it consistently has.
This observable repeat of 'far-effect' outcomes then leads to the understanding of a 'master plan' that we obviously didn't make. We ask ourselves, "Why this?" and "Why that?" as though there is an invisible universal law that we are running into no matter where we go, what language we speak, or what we believe. Add universal law, master plan, faith or trust, and we paint a scientific portrait in the image of a person but with a hole in the middle where the 'person'goes
Andrew Buchmann
spiral of hope
Life was made? That's news to me.
Mike Kelso
I applaud you for the strength and confidence of your convictions, and your faith, and for taking them out into the world (well, TED forums anyway). If you're going to have faith, you might as well go all the way.
However, your faith and single-minded beliefs leave you vulnerable. You are not open to any of the other opinions of anyone else on the forums - and there are, obviously, some very thoughtful people with rich life experiences contributing here. Everyone who disagrees with you (or, who does not acknowledge Allah) is immediately wrong, in your opinion.
The truth is, faith is not a way of knowing anything. It is almost "anti-knowledge". It relies on none of the ways we come to really, truly, know things. eg. 1+2 = 2 (logic). My computer is black (perception). Faith ignores such things. It declares "such-and-such is true!... no matter what I perceive or work out through logic".It attempts to strengthen these declarations by saying them over and over again, louder and louder. What is worse, is, these declarations were made by long-dead people, in a time of great ignorance, and we have no way of knowing what sort of people they really were, or why they were saying them.
Consider the possibility that there is no God. Life really gets a whole lot easier, more free, more peaceful, less judgemental. Less "certainty" is an easy swap for all those benefits.
Peace be upon you.
Nicholas Lukowiak 30+
AbdelRahman Siddig
Thanks for your elegant style of conversation which reflect your gentleness and confidence too
but why should I consider some thing not logically accepted by all means
if we consider there is no GOD
why do not we add extra word and consider there is no GOD except Allah
convince by logic science any mean what is the ROOT cause of life
people put their trust in science because it is systematic and predictable
but they forget what is science in the first place
and what made so systematic and predictable
science in simple word is discovering the relationship between all the materialistic objects
but what people forget is science it self can not explain how the material exist in the first place
if you can explain how the materials appeared then ask me to consider there is no GOD
but for the time been I ask to consider the Creation which mean making the non existence exist
Mike Kelso
you correctly identify the fundamental issue in this debate. Where did everything come from? I understand that, using science, we can track the universe back in time to see that it all came from a single big explosion/origin. No-one has any idea what caused the explosion or if there are other universes.
I, personally, don't know the answers to these questions. Neither do you. I'd like to know... but I suspect no-one will know for a while yet. Maybe we will work some out in 200 years, or 2000 years. Science has come up with a LOT of answers in the last 200 yrs.
For now, your choice, and my choice, is A or B. ... either (A) it is just something that happens, a natural phenomenon... so let's get on with our lives and be good people.... or (B) you need to believe that a supernatural, conscious entity is responsible. There is no evidence for such an entity so I am not sure why it is a better choice for you than (A).
If Creation just "happened"... by itself... you are free to be yourself, true to your own values and hopes and dreams, and you are not subject to any rules, or demands, or tithes, or apologies for being "sinful"...
best wishes to you
Mike Kelso
Michelangelo Gambacorta
We only agree on things we defined in sound ways (math is sound). There is a lot of disagreement in human related matters. We do not know/agree on what is right and wrong. I do not think we need to agree. It's fun that we all think different.
We set rules we hope will make it possible to live together. When things do not work (even after we follow the rules) then we change the rules. But rules do not pretend to determine what is right and wrong.
We were all raised with a fundamental flawed assumption: all questions must be answered. We should learn to live with, manage and enjoy uncertainty, there is freedom and room for better in this stand. This talk (on being wrong) was about that.
Religions are about answering (unanswered) questions by means of dogmas. They provide for comfort against uncertainty. If we manage to be at ease with uncertainty then we can live without religion and this allows us to appreciate the vastness of our ignorance (huge benefit).
The reasons some questions could remain unanswered are many:
1) I am not sure human brains have the power to answer them
2) I am not sure we have the data/information to answer them
3) questions could be flawed thus unanswerable (derived from flawed concepts)
History has shown how wrong religious theories have been; instead of questioning religions, we questioned our interpretations of them. Remember we created religions. Religions are based on dogmas (truths taken for granted) with rational thinking on top. Most of these dogmas assume the form of: God exists and sends messengers that reveal truths.
Shouldn't we move on and finally question/abandon religions and embrace uncertainty?
AbdelRahman Siddig
do not try to impose your uncertainly on other
I have no single doubt that GOD is the first and nothing before
and he created the universe and he will recreate human after death
and the messengers came with logical and physical evidences
Michelangelo Gambacorta
The fact that YOU have no doubt that "GOD is the first and nothing before ..." does not mean we doubtful people cannot try to say what we think (even if doubtful). Please do not see it as imposition but as a debate.
I personally believe doubt and uncertainty are beautiful, enjoyable, have many advantages and I was only trying to share this nice feeling that I have with everybody else. I think this could be a better world if we all were less certain and gave a chance to uncertainty.
If the possibility of abandoning certainty and religions has touched or offended you, I am sorry about, but I stand in my point.
Will Hawthorn
AbdelRahman Siddig
because each question carry assumptions if the assumptions are invalid the questions will become invalid
like who drank the car ? the assumptions here is
1- car is drinkable
2- a person can drink it
but since car is not drinkable then the question is invalid
when you said Who created the creator?
the assumptions that the creator MUST be created
if he can be created then his a just another creature not the Creator!
Will Hawthorn
edit: then I would assume any statement made about any creator would thus carry assumptions which make the statement concerning it invalid?
For example, What if my assumption is that there is the possibility for more than one creator to exist,
as opposed to there being one singular creator, would that still make my sentence linguistically invalid? It seems it's about as unprovable as assuming there is only one creator... (?)
Sorry, bit off topic
AbdelRahman Siddig
did all of them exist in same moment ?
or one MUST always be the first
AbdelRahman Siddig
like we are certain about the rules of traffic light we know when to stop and when to go
it does not mean we must be certain about what will happened in next moment
nor it does mean if you know the rules you will follow it
you may know the rules of traffic light and still go on red light
Krispin Harker
Kevin Cote
Kevin Cote
We do know that violence is bad and that peace is good. These we can be certain of, because they are universally accepted. We know that doing good far outweighs doing bad. Because the affects of doing good to and with others is productive and promotes growth as individuals, and as social beings. Doing bad hurts and represses growth and creates negative mindsets to all the bad has affected.
The game analogy to life is a very poor one at best. LIfe is not a game, it is not about winning or loosing. It is good to understand the basics of human life and nature. To become a good person. Life is about finding what you believe in and following those beliefs as if they are the only thing that matters and at the same time being tolerant of those who hold different ideas, not wrong ideas. As long as the essence of their ideas are "certainly good"
Nicholas Lukowiak 30+
AbdelRahman Siddig
Nicholas Lukowiak 30+
I am certain there is beauty in doubt, not that there is A beauty in doubt.
AbdelRahman Siddig
Nicholas Lukowiak 30+
Individually, doubt is beautiful
Communally, doubt is constant
Doubt brings change in the form of challenges. When you handle the challenges as an individual is when the beauty is happening.
Individuals create community. Imagine a community of critical thinkers... The arts... The sciences... Huge possibilities. That idea is also beautiful to me.
Communal doubt is where exceptions of beauty can be made. So your answer yes and no.
Austin R 10+
AbdelRahman Siddig
thanks Austin
its also about who control the menu of good and bad acts
the people who reject GOD's list of good and bad they want other to accept their list of good and bad
we MUST be certain about this list of good /bad human acts
Brian Scott
Does the creator still exist? Where is she now? Is she within the universe which she created?
Would you believe that I am one of her messengers? How can I prove she sent me?
The creator wants her creations (humans) to believe that she exists? Why? Couldn't she provide direct proof?
AbdelRahman Siddig
Yes
Where is she now? He Not She When HE speak about him self he use the HE Not She
above his throne
Is he within the universe which he created?
No
Would you believe that I am one of his messengers?
How can I prove he sent me?
No
the messenger know who sent him
but your questions reveal a deep level of ignorant about the one who send you
The creator wants his creations (humans) to believe that he exists? Why?
He is not questionable for his acts
Couldn't he provide direct proof?
what proof you need other than your self and life it self
Comment deleted
AbdelRahman Siddig
we only know about GOD what GOD told us about him self
but if you want to see GOD by your eyes just believe in him and follow his messengers before you die
this the only way to see him
Irun Siregar
I won't argue with the first part, because it's a problem of semantics. By definition a "creation" is something that was created by a creator, and of course the opposite applies to a "creator'. I will argue about the second part, that is: how can you be so sure that the universe is a creation? Because if you have no scientific (that means testable) proof what so ever that the universe was created, there is no way that we can be sure that the universe is a creation (remember that something must be created to be a creation). All we now is that there is a universe. But whether it's a creation, something that has always be, maybe actually a creator, or something else entirely that by our current knowledge is incomprehensible is still unclear.
And therefore We can't now for sure that there is a creator.
AbdelRahman Siddig
I think it better to start by defining the word "creation"
creation = bringing some thing to existence
some thing = any thing stone , bird or human
Creator = the one who bring the things to existence
like your self beacuse few years back you did not exist
but now you exist ,so you are a creature
so brining the universe to existence is due to a process of creation
Irun Siregar
Secondly even when there was nothing, why is it impossible that it did not came to be spontaneously? There's as much scientific evidence that universe came spontaneously as the evidence that God created it (and by that I meant there's none by the way).
Salim Solaiman 50+
AbdelRahman Siddig
GOD said there is a life after death
this topic either you are 100% certain about or you are in doubt of
sorry we do not have other options
we did not make life to make the options of life
Salim Solaiman 50+
Whatever of two options you proposed one can take but be certain with not making others life & safety uncertain
AbdelRahman Siddig
Salim Solaiman 50+
I just to told anyone is free to take any of two options proposed but s/he shouldn't make other's wellbeing & life uncertain with his/her belief.
AbdelRahman Siddig
other wise we all should have the same believe
a believe of any one can not make other uncertain
because both believers and atheists feel VERY certain about their believe
but for sure one of them is dead wrong
Salim Solaiman 50+
Life , our existance as whole universe is full of randomness and probability , so anyone can be certain about anything but that never can be 100% as you mentioned in your earlier post. which means to you certainty means 100% certainty which in such can't be.
With my poor knowledge of everything I don't dare to say anyone to be dead wrong... I would prefer to say both are right to certain extent , one spiritually other scientifically.
AbdelRahman Siddig
00=both wrong
01=first wrong
10=second wrong
11=both right
in our case when we says universe is created by GOD
and other says No GOD
we can not be both right or both wrong
one must be right and other must be dead wrong
AbdelRahman Siddig
after we die every body will know who was dead wrong
Juan Fuentes Martin
I disagree on the "was made" part of title, as with the "to be" that implies intentionality. I think these are not "logical mistakes" but the consequence of AbdelRahman's deep certainty.
I respectfully disagree with the content of that certainty, I though this conversation was about the need for certainties, not about their content. My mistake.
AbdelRahman Siddig
But if you are certain about two topic in life you will get both certainity and variety of life
Comment deleted
Juan Fuentes Martin
Furthermore, I think this doubt is what allows us to have our consciousness, what makes us genuinly humans.
If God had made us in such a way that we would always KNOW what is certainly right and wrong, what would be the point of our consciousness? If God had given us a compact set of rules that could be applied in all circumstances (when situation A --> action B) we wouldn't need any form of consciousness, we wouldn't use it.
The idea that God gave us all the answers is actually pretty close to radical behaviourism.
I don't know if there's a God, but If he exists, I certainly know that his silence is his best gift to humanity, the only thing that grants our freedom.
Now, AbdelRahman Siddig seems to have found great comfort and a sense for his life in religion. Let me congratulate you, you are most lucky to feel certain about the direction and the steps your life is meant to follow.
AbdelRahman Siddig
we used to hear from believers GOD said do that and
GOD said do not do that
but we never heard from atheists who claim man is a product of nature
that nature told to pray
or nature said do not cheat
so who have a silent GOD ??
Juan Fuentes Martin
I think it's reasonably clear that I'm not atheist but agnostic.
I agree that atheism causes the atheists not to pray, I see no further consequence to that statement...oh I think I get your answer now!
Maybe you understod my statement that the lack of a clear, compact and universal set of rules is what made it posible for us to develop consciousnes as some kind of insult towards the islamic god? By identifiying Nature with "the atheist's GOD" were you saying that "their god" is more silent, hence worse?
I think you misunderstood my message.
AbdelRahman Siddig
If he made as you said then we are angels not human
please read the different between human and angels
Allah want human to believe in Him but HE gave then the choice to believe or to disbelieve
that why we have believers and non believers
Bill Dowding
Logic would go something like this:
The universe is a product. *false, as others have pointed out.
A product (using the definition implied) must be made by someone *False. Look at almost anything eg waterfalls, rust, puddles of water, or natural disasters. They are obviously results of blind forces at work.
That someone who makes products has an intent. *False. Intent implies a conscious thought about what it is making. Look at ant nests or the barrier reef. They make complex things without any conscious thought.
That someone who makes something must be more complex and greater than what is made. *false. look at the barrier reef or crystal growth.
and so on. this makes the flaw in the "logic" obvious.
What about Occam's Razor?
And as far as reality being certain, I am sure Feynman and Hiedlberg among others had things to say about that.
The mention of "root cause' causes the arguer to fall into the basic error of logic that many religious people fall into, and this is described on many websites dedicated to logic. Just because something has a root cause doesn't mean 'someone intended it'.
The statements are ridiculous and lack any kind of understanding of logic, the facts, the science or anything other than trying to foist off ludicrous superstitions on a forum dedicated to Education and progress.
Mr ARS, consider this. If you consider the universe a product you must therefore consider God a product of greater complexity.
Who created god, and why? What was their purpose?
For my answer to this, it's "We did". Or maybe it was aliens.
Tony Kuphaldt 10+
Absolute certainty only exists in imaginary worlds where we make the definitions. This is why we can say with certainty that 1+1=2 and that all products have a manufacturer. Mathematics and language are both inventions of the human mind, and humans make those rules. I think Albert Einstein said it best: "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Real life is messy and uncertain, principally because we do not define the rules. Science has been tremendously useful in helping us discover the "rules" of the physical world, but even then we have a lot more to learn. Even if you make the leap of faith that there is a Creator with a Plan, absolute certainty is still outside your grasp. Unless you are as wise and as infallible as the Creator, there is still room for doubt -- and humility.
AbdelRahman Siddig
so every things Must have a root cause to exist
so the universe must have a root cause to exist
Tony Kuphaldt 10+
If life is really "made to be certain not doubtful", then you seem to have chosen a very uncertain way to prove it. There are so many possibilities and no way (that I can see) to determine which is true.
AbdelRahman Siddig
Tony Kuphaldt 10+
AbdelRahman Siddig
let us delay the messengers part now
and agree in the a root cause for existences
Tony Kuphaldt 10+
If you are merely suggesting the universe had a cause, I'll agree that it is certainly possible, but I challenge anyone to show how they know the nature of that cause, or whether that cause has a personality (i.e. a Creator). If the universe itself is eternal, or if time is not as linear as we think it is, then even the notion of a cause for the universe is uncertain.
Arguing that the universe must have a Creator because every product has a manufacturer, or because every effect has a cause, assumes the universe is just another kind of product or effect. The big problem here is that the universe itself is so different from things within the universe, we literally have no basis upon which to make a comparison. To illustrate this problem by analogy, the chess board does not follow the same rules as the chess pieces: you could know all there is to know about the rules of chess and the allowed movements of the chess pieces, but that would tell you absolutely nothing about the chess board itself.
Joshua Beers
AbdelRahman Siddig
then you want to escape from the logic by claiming universe is NOT a product
its more complex than a product
so if 5 >3
universe > product
every thing is 3 must be in 5 in addition to extra component which is 2 to have 5
so if a simple product MUST have a manufacture then the universe which contains
1- the manufacture of the product
2- the raw materials
3- the environment
for sure it MUST an extra ordinary manufacture , other wise please explain in a simple logic what made the existences exist in the first place?
loop johnny 30+
universe > product"
Wait... what?
Also, existence, by definition, means belonging to reality. Something exists if it belongs to reality. So by that logic, God exists. It exists as a concept in our minds. A pretty persistent one if you ask me.
"Everything you can imagine is real." - Pablo Picasso
The thought is always real, but the thing that the thought refers to might not be real.
Vijaya Poudyal
Deaven Morris
The only definition of Life is that is replicates. At some point molecules bonded in such a way that they could replicate themselves. They spread to every corner of the earth until resources became scarce. Many of these primitive"cells" amalgamated and became modern cells. Then marine life became competitive so animals moved to land etc.
You can prove that there is no creator with a simple physical argument. The law of conservation of mass and energy states that all the energy that has been in the universe will be in the universe. The energy that exists in the universe now has always existed. There is no transfer of matter or energy from outside the universe, therefore there could not have been a creator.It's the 1st law of Thermodynamics. What ever happened to critical thought?
Deaven Morris
Debra Smith 100+
AbdelRahman Siddig
I never said that every thing in life is certain but I said the rule are certain
like football game the rule are fix but each game have a different taste ranging
from board game
to OK game
to amazing game
to the game of the year
to the game of the century
but all the games played under the same rules
Debra Smith 100+
AbdelRahman Siddig
Academic Hippie
Where was the Creator before he created the universe?
If you say that life and the universe are so complex that they can only be created by a Creator, then the Creator, who could think of creating such a complex universe, must be even more complex and by the same argument would have to be created by some other creator and the same argument could be repeated for this creator and so on and so on.. ..
AbdelRahman Siddig
your argument look valid but if you analyze it you find it invalid
why because each question carry assumptions if the assumptions are invalid the questions will become invalid
like who drank the car ? the assumptions here is
1- car is drinkable
2- a person can drink it
but since car is not drinkable then the question is invalid
when you said Who creates the creator?
the assumptions that the creator CAN /MUST be creator
if he can be created then his a just another creature not the Creator!
Academic Hippie
And what proof do you have for your belief that God was not created but universe was and for other beliefs?
And again, if God existed forever and universe was created by God then where was God when he created the universe?
AbdelRahman Siddig
This a scientific fact not religion
Why you reject science when it's against your view
S.R. Ahmadi 10+
God did not ground Adam on earth from first day of earth.
the story and steps of creating sky's and earth and Adam is described exact in Quran.
before human two other kind of creatures where living on earth. the first disappeared completely by God and second are now leaving around earth but we not see them. they are called Jinns.
when I said Adam was on earth from first day of earth?
please read carefully:
http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/ (Sermon 1, creation of Earth and Sky and the birth of Adam)
http://www.al-islam.org/sahifa/kamila.html
Academic Hippie
But has space which constitutes the universe existed forever? Was space not created by God?
That is why I asked where was God before he created space (which is part of the universe)?
You have conveniently ignored my other questions as well.
S.R. Ahmadi 10+
God created time and space.
space was not preexist and is not for ever. just God is such.
God created all things but itself has no creator.
God has no time and space. if you want a proof it is your dream at slepp.
when you see dream you go to different places and in past or even future (deja vu).
dream proves all thing is not limited in time and space and there is universe or universes out of material universe as parallel.
"why can't you believe that no one created the universe"
please read this argument:
http://www.ted.com/conversations/2142/why_our_universe_has_laws_of_p.html
"And what proof do you have for your belief that God was not created but universe was and for other beliefs?"
please first read my other comments and if not convinced pleas ask then.
"then where was God when he created the universe?"
God created where and when with no need to be any place of before or after anything.
God is not material.
if you not look to God as material you understand. please consider your dreams as an example of no place no time universe.
God is almighty.
all attributes of God are unlimited.
all universe is a like a very small garden.
the width of one garden of heaven of one believer is the same as width of all universe. because human wants to live in heaven for unlimited time and always should have anough new places to visit in heaven.
the universe we see is just first sky. as Koran says there is 7 skys.
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/57:21
Deaven Morris
S.R. Ahmadi 10+
yes but this can not be unlimited chain.
please read above comment.