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Spinoff reality... individual, shared, collective, and actual realities


Here we seek to dialogue, converse and share viewpoints on HOW our minds produce subconscious "worlds", conscious realities and map within territories out there. This conversation stems from the what is reality? conversations as at least two tedsters seek to share their individual understanding to enrich each others views.

Note this is the second attempt to initiate this spinoff conversation to focus on:
Does every living form have a to be Limited to their own perceiving ? Can one actually 'see' the world out there? This conversation seeks to dialogue over how individuals and groups of individuals form their world views, the interaction beliefs, and ideas have on these views and how to actually see the world out there as it is... The idea of 'shared identical copies of reality' will be jointly explored here, as well as what it takes to actually share what one thinks/feels/experiences...

Of course the underlying premise will oscillate between :
A- belief that identical copies can not exist
B- belief that identical copies can exist
C- what does it take to move from A to B


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    Dec 15 2013: Larry, I trust what you are saying needs to be taught in every elementary school. Not only our vision is activated by the natural "motor" of constant Comparison but we have to keep Comparing all our sensations as well. When we slow down or stop comparing sensations, we loose our memory and die. No one wants to notice that screaming fact.

    This is the most fascinating natural law of perceptions which we explore in every instant. Unfortunately this very nature's law, governing our whole existence, is absolutely ignored in our everyday life, in communications, lawmaking, sciences and especially in math and religious beliefs.

    If we cannot see the world as it is, as well as ourselves as we are, we have to somehow comprehend this unavoidable fact, and be aware that this very nature's law is after everything we can experience, discover, measure, feel or understand, including any research, and all physical laws we "explore".

    I truly believe that if a scientist, or politician, or economist would be able to understand these very fundamental laws, revealing our great limitations, that, on a positive side! (no one wants to notice this side), when limitations actually stimulate our sense of comparison and inborn creative abilities for the sake of our life and survival in our natural environment, our society would become wiser, and people's interactions - more ethical. There is nothing can be exactly repeated, no one can be exactly the same as someone else - this elementary knowledge would be good enough for people to discover how stupid our monotonous colossal manmade systems are, serving no real person, but a non-existing collective prototype!

    I'm involved in Ted's talks (sometimes) looking for someone like you, a rare intuitive person, who gives me a little hopeā€¦for a real thoughtful change. Thank you.
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      Dec 17 2013: Vera, Unbridled energy set forth gathering contrast with no direction, that's my youth anyway and still present in today's youth. Perhaps it would make a difference if starting out we were taught what it means to be a human being. Help to pour the foundation of a real self instead of empty shells of non-existing collective prototypes! That's no life.

      The laws of perceptions must be followed or pay the price.

      "If we cannot see the world as it is, as well as ourselves as we are, we have to somehow comprehend this unavoidable fact." Prior to reading this I had thoughts about it. I did not have an issue with comprehension my problem is accepting the fact. Avoidance will not save me from myself, my surrender to the fact is required.

      Our limitations would seem to be nature, she rules us. The more responsible and the greater our affinity to our true nature the more the limits seem to extend.

      Hope: To place confidence in, with the belief it will be obtained. Next step Faith, Hope in action. Just be careful what you hope for as I am sure you are. I will follow your suggestion and keep moving, the contrasting alternative of loosing memory and death do not look good at this time. But who knows, time changes everything. Thank you for extending yourself, you are appreciated.
      • Dec 17 2013: Larry,

        I liked what you stated in particular "Hope: To place confidence in, with the belief it will be obtained. Next step Faith, Hope in action. Just be careful what you hope for ..."

        Remember that even when we may only be able to see the world through what we think, we may think to be accordingly to what be; thus becoming able to see the world as it be.

        Could you elaborate on what you meant by the laws of perceptions.
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          Dec 17 2013: Esteban, To briefly elaborate on governing forces of perception I would believe that:
          1. What I "see" are projections of mind onto the outer/world should there even be a world out there.
          2. Perception is something given in installments through the appearance of time.
          3. Perception is taught and learned, dependent on the minds of others.
          4. My perception is describing my perception.

          Therefore the eyes are not the cause by which the real world can be seen, for the illusions that they look upon must lead to more illusions of reality.

          The world as it be or again a different form of the world you think it be? If I dream a different dream, I'm still dreaming, hopefully better.
      • Dec 18 2013: Thanks,

        While what I see are maps of the territory and not the territory itself with the appropriate map one gets an accurate glimpse of the territory... tough one only looks at the maps one has constructed oneself...

        again thanks for elaborating what you meant by perceptions... and yes if one dreams to be awake one still be dreaming just as if one be awake and dreams one still be awake...
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          Dec 18 2013: Well thank you, when you are saying map of the territory if I am understanding correctly you are saying mental associations from which energy flow is derived. With that knowledge in mind you can become aware of the power flow of your natural motor. That could be done quite well from a state of equilibrium. In stillness the energy of mind becomes discernible and determinable.

          Perhaps what is left to do is dream on in Good Orderly Direction.
      • Dec 19 2013: "Perception is taught and learned, dependent on the minds of others."

        There are no 'others' , mind is a transparent medium. What you are dreaming influences my dream inevitably.
        Dream something great , please ! :)
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          Dec 19 2013: Natasha, Resubmitted with my dark humor removed in accord to the guidelines, no offense was was intended hopefully non taken.

          I dream of others in my dream, that makes a great dream.
        • Dec 19 2013: Natasha,

          In the dream there are no others in reality there are others... what each does and dreams influences everyone and everything so indeed dream and do something great please ! :-)
      • Dec 19 2013: Larry !
        I saw your deleted comment :) No worries, it was fun !
        Someone said " The story about a person you don't know is your story you don't know about"

        "I dream of others in my dream, that makes a great dream."

        How could i ask for more ? ! :)

        Thank you !


        Esteban !
        ( there is no reply option on your comment )
        You say : "In the dream there are no others in reality there are others.."
        Somehow we got to this place without answering the question what reality is.
        How do you know what is there and what is not ? :)
        The important thing is not to know what reality is. You'll never succeed. There are no words for it. The important thing is to drop the labels.

        May i suggest you to start with this one " Reality is not a dream; dream is not reality " meaning they are two opposites.
        Drop it ! :)
        • Dec 19 2013: Natasha,

          if need be just reply at the top... Yea the question about what is reality that this spoon off from finished without a shared answer to the question what reality is... and that conversation had over 900 comments! I agree with you, the important thing isn't to know what reality is, the important thing involves what to do in reality... whether that involves dropping the labels or using the labels in a particular way could become an interesting dialogue. I sort of have been in a quest to drop all dualities and move into a singularity where 'opposites simply vanish'... it is what it is independent of the distinction used to label it!

          To answer your question "How do you know what is there and what is not ? :)" it boils down to what one chooses to believe, what happens to be and the correspondence between them that happens to be. BTW are you sure I will never succeed in knowing what reality is?
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          Dec 19 2013: Natasha, My intent was to have fun and a laugh with you. Perhaps I have posted one too many times on the reality question. Ted.com informed me I was out of the guidelines, may have reignited the cold war and had torn a hole in the universe in which reality is slowly leaking out. Those weren't the exact words. I was informed they would not post but they posted anyway and so I resubmitted. I am glad it was received in the nature it was given. It's a good heads up for me, could as well not been received as given. The name Natasha flashes memory of old cartoon friends of childhood, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Boris and Natasha. Somewhat my call to playtime.

          I like your quote: For me it's all the same story the difference being the diversity of experience and words. The truth for me is when I discerningly look upon the energy. That is why I avoid looking at peoples profiles as much as my curiosity prods me to. You posses wholesome energy.

          I can agree I can not figure out reality although I believe that absolute reality does exist. I just can't see it, I'm a blind man in a dark room trying to sense my way. I must settle for something that will lead me through this life. Although we seem to have many choices in life there are only two. A hostile or friendly universe, God or the ego, God or the devil, Love or fear all different words but still one choice call it what you want. By asking the question was the universe created from Love or fear I would have to say Love. Fear is not supportive of life. Therefore I make my one choice Love, God, Love of God that will lead me through this world of illusions and dreams. Label it as you will, the label means nothing. Reality is not of this world although it can extend to it and hopefully I can extend it in the form of the Love that I was created in. I believe there is only ONE all encompassing reality. And it ain't me.
        • Dec 20 2013: Larry,

          I believe you are a part of that one all encompassing reality ... BTW the room is actually filled with luminous light! In other words it isn't a dark room it's just that the blind see it as a dark room! Of course who actually knows if its a dark or luminous room? I just prefer the idea of it being a luminous room... and someone knowing what actually be going on... caring and lovingly ensuring life endures ...

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