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Moe Aye

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Equal pay for both genders?

Till this day, women in the workforce are being paid 15% less than men. I've read many articles and come to realization that there are people, even women (with their culturally different values) that are against equal pay because of human nature; pregnancy. A paid leave of absence because of pregnancy is said to be 'unfair' to men, although single fathers express their opinions, people just don't listen. How can we fix this gap? What does it take to persuade everyone that no matter who we are, we all have the same rights to work just as hard and get paid just as much?

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    Nov 18 2013: moe, what is the thing about "single father express their opinions"?

    well, are you saying that women make 15% less for doing the same jobs, or 15% less but perhaps they are doing less important jobs? If it's the first, that is definitely unfair, and I can't even see why it would be. Perhaps women aren't pushy enough in salary negotiations? Or who knows, maybe women are physically scared of getting beaten up if they ask for more money, I mean, you tell me, does it feel scary to be a woman, for example if you go out at night are you afraid of being raped?

    If it's the second, well, you can't expect people to make as much if they're doing less important jobs. But we might ask if women haven't in general risen to as many executive jobs, this might also be lack of aggressiveness, perhaps you need to be aggressive to be a boss?

    It's a little complicated, because I think a lack of aggressiveness can also be lovable, I could love that about women.

    It's probably partly because women haven't been in the workforce in large numbers as long as men.
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      Nov 18 2013: Your first point is an interesting one. I have seen reports that a lot of the imbalance in pay is due to men and women working different jobs, rather than being paid different amounts for the same job.
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        Nov 18 2013: well, that seems fair, doesn't it, to get paid less if you're not doing as difficult work? But if there is discrimination against women on the basis of sex that they cannot get the better jobs even though they would do them as well or better, that is wrong.
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          Nov 18 2013: A woman wrote on the FML website that says, "Even though I work hard and do the equal amount as my male peers, I get paid 15% less because I was born a female. FML." (I don't remember the sentence structure but it was about the same). I find it awful that gender discrimination still exists in the workforce. Yes, men have an advantage when it comes to physique but looking this in a perspective of both gender I think it's fair to say that everyone deserves equal rights no matter what they look like or the reproductive system they are born with. Both genders are capable of doing the same jobs as one another. I find it depressing to see teenage men, particularly in my high school saying "now go make me a sandwich," to their girlfriends and joking about it to their male peers. It's just wrong. Thank you, Greg. I enjoyed your opinion on this matter.
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      Nov 18 2013: Greg,
      You are reinforcing an old stereotype with your statement....
      "...I think a lack of aggressiveness can also be lovable, I could love that about women."

      The idea that women who are not aggressive are more loveable is a concept which has contributed to women being less aggressive EVEN if that is what they need to do to get equal pay. Women can be aggressive in the workplace when needed, AND still be loveable. It seems to be a matter of letting go of gender biases and stereotypes.

      http://www.gallup.com/poll/1978/americans-see-women-emotional-affectionate-men-more-aggressive.aspx
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        Moe Aye

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        Nov 18 2013: It's really difficult to break through the barrier of 'aggressivness' because most people don't see women that way. We're meant to look upon like pieces of art, to be taken care of and treated with gentle care no matter what we say. From my experience, I am agressive when it comes to portraying my strength in class debates and I wish more women would speak out. It's too bad that some of them looks so submissive, barely awake. I hope we can all find a way to help everyone join because I know that women are just as capable as men are in academics too.

        It's surprising to see the reactions I get when I tell people that I would rather adopt starving children in third world countries than give birth to add on to the already growing population;or the fact that marriage is not for me is enough for half the world to pounce onto me. This also includes abortion rights that these men in the community are against saying that we are 'killing' children. Being a woman is much more difficult than it looks.
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          Nov 18 2013: Moe,
          It is difficult to break through the barrier that ALL labels create! It is nice to be treated with gentle care.....AND.....it is also nice to be respected for who and what we are and what we do.

          When girls/women speak out, there is a risk that they/we may be thought of as unlovable by those who want to hang onto that stereotype. I can be aggressive when a situation calls for that too, and I would not give up my right to do so simply because of what some people may think.

          There is a continuing stereotype that girls/women who are submissive are more lovable.....they are certainly easier to control, and perhaps that is perceived as "loveable" for some people.

          In my humble perception, your intent to adopt starving children is commendable, and your choice to marry, or not to marry is YOUR choice. If people do not accept YOUR choice, they are simply making a judgment and showing you what THEIR choice is....it is called "projection".

          Being a woman may be challenging in some ways, and it appears that you are exploring the challenges with mindful awareness.....I am very impressed:>)
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        Nov 18 2013: i'm sorry, Colleen, my intention wasn't to reinforce stereotypes. I thought when Moe wrote the topic, she had asked why women might make less, and I was attempting to think of reasons why that might be. But when I reread her topic, I see she hadn't asked that question. I really don't know much about the pregnancy leave, well, has it become an issue, what are the particulars? The idea is that women make less pay because they get maternity leave, this could be unfair to a woman who never had any children, or it could be unfair to women who had two children vs. four children.
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          Nov 18 2013: I did not think you did it intentionally Greg. It is so ingrained in our culture, it is not even noticed much of the time, which is part of why it is difficult to change.

          I believe men said that giving women maternity leave was unfair because they (men) could not have that opportunity. "Paternity leave" was initiated to be more "fair" to men (see links in my other comment).

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