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Greg Jones

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Firearms forensics and gun crime solution

As we see, it is a laborious task to track down weapons used in gun crime, where forensics test fire weapons to gain a bullet, rifling, and fire pin match. Always done post event. I propose a global database under the auspices of the UN or at least at a Nation level, of the implementation of a database of weapons that must be test fired at the factory, or at local facilities, to gain the forensic profile of each weapon sold or owned by the gun owner as a perquisites of licensing. Thereby enabling the identification of weapons used in crime or defense in a much more efficient way.
It would enable the instant identification from the national database from bullet evidence, streamlining the crime detection and the forensic process, tying a gun owner or seller or user to a specific weapon before any crime or defense event has taken place.

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    Nov 9 2013: I can see the way this discussion is going, I suppose I knew it would attract gun nuts, I leave it with you, goodbye for now.
    PS. hopefully I'll keep my next idea to myself, make some cash and swan around on my own beach with a bourbon and a dark tan and a Swedish blonde with questionable morals....here's hoping lol.
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    Dec 7 2013: Had Hitler won WW2, would you still be for this idea?

    What's more dangerous in the long run, petty gun crime or a state monopoly on violence?
  • Nov 11 2013: If you have ever practised law, you know the Police know who did it without all that. Even in America innocents are rarely charged, but we have executed a few. More thorough people like the Japanese are right even more often. You certainly know this after attending a few trials in Japan.Is there a substantial difference between German, Frenc h, and Swiss gun laws and Americas? I know of no time when Americans were allowed to bring fully -automatic weapons home unless it was a BOQ. But someone will lecture me on Swiss Rules and changes there.I have got an idea why But we have so many people with head problems in America now. Also, most gun deaths are suicide in America. SadBut do you want to hit them with your car at seventy miles per hour as happened to at least one of my friends.
  • Nov 9 2013: Yeah, That's all we need,
    more "instant identification" from another "national database".

    Alaska? Does it have a warm place or two?
    The lower 48 are damned nuts.

    I already live at the beach, so Hawaii's out.
  • Nov 9 2013: First you make a problem.
    Then the congress appropriates money to create an enforcement agency or 2 or 10 or ....
    That money is usually borrowed.

    You voters have a really bad track record, and Nixon wasn't where it started.
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    Nov 9 2013: Also I hadn't considered wear and tear, in forensic terms the weapon would be different over time.I guess they would have to be retested annually rather like vehicle checks in the UK, to accommodate any changes.Maybe a heat and impact resistant tag or marker embedded in each bullet, unique to the batch would be another way.
    • Nov 9 2013: Which would only grow to further increase costs, while still failing to address the complete ineffectualness of system against unregistered guns and ammo.

      Firearms aren't rocket science. Where they aren't legal (or in the system being proposed here, heavily regulated), people make them in machine shops located in their basements, and smuggle them from other countries. Same goes for ammo.

      If anything, the system proposed will only further encourage criminals to move towards unlicensed guns, and won't actually solve all that much (only making forensics easier, as opposed to preventing the crime to begin with, and only doing that little if the gun's registered), despite being tremendously expensive.
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        Nov 9 2013: Imagine a swat engagement, where hundreds of rounds are fired, the engagement could be deciphered very quickly, if each round could be scanned or x-rayed within minutes, out in the field
        ,If each round had a tag embedded in it.
        Now imagine the criminals are using the same type of ammunition? And a civilian has be shot? The tag proves it was cross fire from the criminals and clears the officer of wrong doing.
        • Nov 9 2013: The DHS has actually got 6 Billion 9 mm rounds.
          Go figure.

          Time to move to northern climes.
        • Nov 9 2013: Actually, its perfectly possible to prove the cop is innocent without the system. You'd just have to do it the old fashioned way instead of using a data base (current techniques differentiate between different guns of the same model firing the same ammo). It'll take longer, is all; seeing as it doesn't really matter whether the cop is proved innocent today or in a week, it hardly justifies setting up a data base.

          The only real advantage such a system would have is if a criminal used a firearm he then made disappear, and that firearm was registered under him in the database.
          Considering how easy it would be to dodge the data base, only the stupidest of criminals would be caught (as in, the criminals you probably have a million other leads on--its a pretty glaring mistake after all).
          Not at all worth the time and money it would take to set up.
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          Dec 7 2013: Or in a case where the officers may be in the position of wrong doing, the evidence is suppressed.
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    Nov 8 2013: Again, an idea that looks great on paper, but....
    It has been pointed out the cost and sustainment of such a data base, and then, guns used criminally are not documented.... but often, recovered bullets do not lend themselves to identification. Few criminal cases are based ballistics. Often, ballistic evidence is only supportive.
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      Nov 9 2013: It certainly wouldn't be viable with hollow point or case less ammunition, or any projectiles designed to fragment on impact I guess.
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    Nov 8 2013: Crime can and will bypass this solution as the original signature of a rifled barrel is easily manipulated beyond recognition and changes 'naturally' by wear and tear over time anyway.
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      Nov 9 2013: Counter crime measures are always circumvented by criminal minds and always will be, but the concept may lend itself to both, opportunist crime or law enforcement/military weapons.
  • Nov 8 2013: Good idea Greg but selling any automatic military weapons to civilians also makes no sense to me. Police departments being encouraged to buy military armored vehicles, tanks, hand grenades and other weapons of war is just as stupid.
  • Nov 8 2013: It sounds horrendously expensive, and not terribly efficient.

    The gun has to be registered for it to be linked to its owner, and either way it won't help much if the gun was simply stolen from someone else, or produced someplace that doesn't register.
    • Nov 8 2013: I does not sound near as expensive as trying to find a disposed of weapon, would you rather dredge a whole river or lake or walk miles of terrain or just look it up on a computer data base. It is actually very brilliant Greg!
      • Nov 8 2013: The cost isn't due to accessing databases being expensive (as you've mentioned, its quite cheap). The cost is in setting up the data base to begin with--test firing and preforming a forensic analysis on every single firearm manufactured will cost a fortune.

        And again, it won't help if a gun involved in a crime simply isn't in the data base. Maybe it was manufactured abroad, or in someone's basement. Maybe it was stolen from the military--unless you want military firearms to undergo the same procedure, which will drive up defense spending (forensically tested guns will be more expensive to cover the cost of getting them into the data base).
        • Nov 8 2013: Sounds to me like it is worth at least a feasibility study. The cost could be split with the government bearing some of the cost and we would still come out ahead. Right now the entire cost of a crime committed with a weapon is paid for by the public and to be quite frank, I am tired of other people and corporations committing crimes and then I pay for it.

          Call me crazy if you want but I think the criminals should pay for their crimes.
      • Nov 9 2013: The problem is a real one, no one said otherwise, its merely the proposed solution which is ill suited to solving it.
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    Nov 8 2013: That's assuming the gun was sold to a registered buyer. In the US we can legally resell firearms, and there's websites such as armslist.com to faciliate this. European citizens still have online blackmarkets, where they can purchase rifle lowers stuffed inside teddy bears and video game consoles.

    Then again I'm pretty biased. Excuse my 2nd amendment patriotism.