greg dahlen

Alumnus, academy of achievement


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what do you do in your pajamas and bathrobe?

One day I was tired and was staying home most of the day. I realized I needed to go to the market across the street for a few things, but then I would come home again and stay home. I asked myself should I change from my pajamas to go to the market, but then I thought I would just have to change back when I returned home. So I just went to the market in my pajamas and bathrobe. True, it drew some giggles, but people seemed to be laughing with me, not at me.

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    Nov 15 2013: Greg, The reality is that sleeping pants are sold almost everywhere ... they are patterned light weight sweat like pants. The sad truth is that many wear them as clothing.

    From a older persons view ... I think it is trashy and disrespectful to go shopping in ones underclothes ... which I consider PJs and Bathrobes. They are bought for a purpose and grocery shopping is not one of them.

    My image would be that you slept in those PJs, maybe got up in the night or early morn and went to the toilet or even scratched where you itched, Got a cold blow or pick you nose ... Since you still have them on I think you have not bathed. If you had you would not have put on soiled cloths. (I hope)

    Picking up the paper from your porch or setting the trash out is one thing when you are covered up but still in night cloths ... however, shopping and spreading your germs is disrespectful, self centered, and most likely infecting all you touch and those who follow using your basket or buying what you touched including the money.

    I have spent enough time in California to understand that convention is not always followed by some. That is their business .... however, you ask the question of TED members of which I am one and have given you my view.

    As a former employer ... you stayed home because you were tired?????? Just for laughs what did you tell your boss was the reason you did not go to work? If this was not a work day disregard.

    As a side bar .... is this considered indecent exposure in California? I will have to look that up.

    Lejan ask about "Asking to be raped" ... it is common for ladies to not wear restrictive underwear to bed ... by appearing in public in sleep wear you allow that thought to be processed by both the good and bad people and that will be their perception of you. It may be a unfair brand that she is trash ... but it will be thought if not said.

    Thoughts from a old guy .... Bob.
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      Nov 15 2013: thanks, Robert. Well, I would think I disagree with your positions, but appreciate your sharing. I read somewhere that the average American bathes once a week, therefore even if one is in one's day clothing, one may very well not have bathed. And of course one goes to the toilet, picks one's nose, etc., in one's day clothing.

      Not a work day, or perhaps working at home.

      I doubt it is considered indecent exposure. Do you happen to know what the rationale is for those laws, Bob? I used to think that it was shame over the genitals, but now I wonder if the concern is simply that a naked person might sit down on something (in public) and get urine or fecal matter on it. This would not be a problem if one is in one's pj's and bathrobe (I myself also wear briefs under my pajama pants when I sleep.)

      Yes, I think people might be very hard on a woman who did this, it's a bit unfair but that may be the way it is. Why do women get a harder time on this, in some situations we allow women to rebel against conformity more than men, and in other situations we cut men more slack.

      I am a person who enjoys being different. But I also believe most people who saw me at the grocery in my PJ's would realize it was probably some sort of time-saving attempt, to save a clothing change or two. But I like breaking out of the rut of always doing things the same way, somehow that is mentally stimulating.

      Do you ever get into a rut, Robert? What do you do to break out of it?
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        Nov 17 2013: "somehow that is mentally stimulating". So your breakout of your "rut" wearing pajamas instead of street clothes was mentally stimulating ? Hmm, interesting. Can you tell us what kind of mental stimulus you experienced walking into the grocery store wearing your pajama ?

        Just being different for the sake of being different ?

        I don't know what people thought when they saw you, but I can tell you what I would think. They guy is nuts.
        But then who knows, I'm not living in CA.
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          Nov 17 2013: no, Harald, it wasn't being different for the sake of being different. The idea was that I started the day in my pajamas, I decided I needed to do this one errand, which was go to the market across the street and buy a few things, and then I would be coming back to my place (as opposed to doing other things out in the world) and spending the rest of the day at my place. And then, when night fell, I would go to bed in my pj's. It didn't make much sense to me to change into day clothing just to do this one errand, and then I would have to change back to go to bed that night. So it's two costume changes just to make a short trip to the grocery, but I saved the effort of those changes by just staying in my pj's. How is it mentally stimulating? Well, I guess it's interesting to see how people react to one's doing something different, in America one rarely or never sees one at market in their pj's so one might wonder how people would handle it. In my imagination I imagined it would be fine, tolerated, acceptable, but it was nice to see that in reality it was that way, that people seemed to find it amusing but in a nice way, where they were smiling with me rather than at me, including the employee who rang me up at the checkstand.

          Had you seen the response from the woman from China who said it is something of a trend in China for people to go to market in their pj's and bathrobe?

          This idea was not something I came up with on my own. I had seen characters go to market in their pj's on television shows, and I said to myself "aha, I could do that in real life."

          Do you ever do anything that really is different from what other people do but you have a rationale for it?
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        Nov 17 2013: "Had you seen the response from the woman from China who said it is something of a trend in China for people to go to market in their pj's and bathrobe?"

        We never see people wear bathrobe in the wet markets in Shanghai( I think Chinese people prefer pajama) because it's inconvenient and dirty in the wet market. And the fact is more and more people consider wearing pajamas out as kind of inappropriate behavior for a citizen in a metropolis like Shanghai. So that's the difference.

        If you don't mind other people's views or discussions on your wearing pajama out and you're sure your pajama is clean enough when you return to home, of course you can try it because there're no laws or regulations to restrict your freedom.

        I think trying the opposite will also ben fun. Wearing something that is formal than pajama or bathrobe but informal than a business suit and comfortable regardless you are at home or out is more convenient and can avoid some misunderstandings from others. You can wear something casual and comfortable instead of pajama or bathrobe when you sleep. You can start your day in other comfortable clothes and sleep with them.
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          Nov 17 2013: well, even if it was a trend before, but not a trend now, Yoka, it's still different from the United States, I was just trying to make the point that different cultures might see the same act differently. Actually I got a post from a guy in California today who said he was just at a market in his pajamas and another person was the same way, this is a new one on me, as I'm the only person I've ever seen do this in the United States. I think he might be in the military and live near a military base, but what is the connection to going to the market in your pajamas?

          Yes, you can play with clothes. Probably in general that's what I'm emphasizing in this topic, a sense of play. Now you're an adult, does play fit anywhere in your life?

          I would say for me the opposite of pajamas might be the most formal clothing, such as a tuxedo and tails. That would also be a little funny, going to the market in a tuxedo, but one could do that for a practical reason as well, if one were on one's way to a very formal affair and needed something at a market.

          Sometimes I'll wear a shirt and tie to a rock music concert, this is fun, too, as it goes against what most people wear to rock music which is jeans and Tshirt. For me there's something fresh about doing something a little differently, it freshens things up, gets away from the staleness of just doing the same way.

          Now what is your image, you are a teacher correct? Here in the United States we have a holiday called Halloween where everybody dresses in costume, ordinary people dress as policemen, clowns, basketball players, nurse and doctor and go to party. Do you have this in China? What would you dress as on Halloween?
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        Nov 17 2013: I don't think you talk about the same thing in my former comment. I mean if you wear a pajama or bathrobe out because it's convenient for you to go for errand without changing your clothes,and the premise is you don't want to arrest people's attention on your clothes and feel easy with your dressing freedom, then you could wear something casual but more formal than pajama or bathrobe. You can get fun by wearing your casual clothes to sleep instead of pajama or bathrobe.

        If you want to have fun or see people's response or interesting facial expressions about your unexpected dressing style in public, you can try everything you want. Maybe you needn't wear any clothes at all. That'll be the most convenient for you to go out and surprising to people. So why don't you wear your birth suit out?:)

        We don't have Halloween in China. Chinese people don't like ghosts and zombies. We always have some rituals at some festivals to drive all the ghosts off as faraway as possible.
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          Nov 18 2013: well, Yoka, probably it's more comfortable to sleep in pajamas, also sleeping puts wrinkles in your clothes, no, so I don't wish to wrinkle what I'm going to wear, also I don't always plan my day ahead very well, in some cases I don't know that I will wake up and wish to spend the day only in my place.

          Well, in America I think you would be arrested and go to jail if you went out naked. I asked police once why you can't go out naked, she said it would be upsetting to children, I cannot think that it would be, what do you think?

          Well, every culture seems to be different, although on Halloween it's not all ghosts and zombies, it's many positive images like doctor, policeman, ballerina. It is a chance for self-expression. Perhaps you can discover more aspects of your personality by choosing a costume? Have you ever acted on stage, that is a little like Halloween, or do you disagree?
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        Nov 18 2013: Greg, well, I can't really identify with you because in general I don't use the same clothes for several days in a row and much less do I use the same clothes I wear on the road also in the bed.
        As of people smiling when they saw you. I probably would smile too. There isn't really anything to be angry about. I think I would also smile about somebody running around naked with a big Mexican sombrero and cowboy boots. Does that mean I think such an outfit is normal ? Absolutely NO.
        As to wearing pajamas in China. Well, Yoka is from Shanghai and she would know what is normal there.
        Beside, even if everybody in China uses a pajama when visiting a grocery store, it doesn't really mean anything. You are not in China but in California. There are some indigenous tribes deep in the Amazon forest that run around naked. Does that mean you should try to emulate them in California ? Probably not such a good idea.
        I do things differently form other people if there is a reason to do so and if it gives me some kind of benefit. As I said before, being different for the sake of being different is pointless.
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          Nov 19 2013: right, Harald, but it's not being different just for the sake of being different. Let's say you rose from bed one morning in your pajamas, and you knew you were going to stay home all day, work at home or rest or whatever. Noone was scheduled to come see you. And, when the day was over, you would be going to bed in your pajamas that night. You might decide to stay in your pajamas all day, right?, I'm sure you've done that in your life, stayed in your pajamas all day, most people have. But then you realize, well, I do have one small errand I should go out and do today, but then I'm going to be home the rest of the day, and at the end of the day, I will be laying down to sleep in my PJ's. Might it not make sense to just stay in your pajamas to go do the errand rather than change into your clothes to do it, it would save you the effort of changing into your clothes, you would enjoy the comfort of being in your pajamas when you returned from the errand, you wouldn't have to change back into the pajamas for bed when night fell. Those would be big good reasons to just stay in your pajamas to go do that one errand, agreed? Of course most people would change into clothes, I'm just saying it would be an option to just remain in the pajamas.

          As far as people smiling, I would say you have a feeling when people are smiling because they think you're strange, versus smiling because they're in on the joke. The smiles I got seemed positive, like more of the latter.
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          Nov 19 2013: I would also think it's refreshing to see someone dressed differently, both for the person dressing differently and for the people who see him or her. If all your life when you went to market you had only seen people dressed in day clothes, would it not delight the eye to see someone in their pajamas and bathrobe, break up the monotony? Sometimes I'll put on a shirt and tie just to go to a movie in an ordinary movie theater, or to go to a rock concert. This is refreshing for me, and I think for anyone who sees me. If all your life when you went to a movie theater you had only seen guys in shirts and t-shirts, would it not delight your eye to suddenly see someone in a shirt and tie, break up the monotony? Of course I think people should do what they feel comfortable and natural with.

          If I had a tuxedo, I might put it on some time to go to a movie in an ordinary movie theater. If I were a woman, I might put on an elegant ballgown in the same situation. It is in the spirit of play and freshness.

          Well, do you dress up for Halloween, Harald? What do you go as? Done any acting? I've sometimes worked as an extra in TV and movies, I've been different kinds of space aliens on some of the "Star Trek" spinoffs, I've been a zombie on "It's Always Sunny in Philadephia."
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        Nov 19 2013: Greg, actually I don't spend the whole day in PJs regardless of my activity. As I said, I don't spend days sticking around in the same clothes. I don't know about you, but I take at least ' shower per day and often up to 3. When I take a shower I never dress the same clothes I used before.
        "would it not delight the eye to see someone in their pajamas and bathrobe"
        Not really, I couldn't care less what people wear. I suppose, in my life there are more important things to focus on than what somebody is wearing. Steve Jobs was wearing jeans and a black turtle neck, day in day out (I assume he changed the turtle neck on a daily basis). Never heard anybody complaining that this is boring.
        I think you are overestimating your "impact" on people. I'm sure the majority of people just don't give a
        No, I'm not dressing up for Halloween. I'm happy with who I am, No need to change identities to become a zombie or alien ;-)
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          Nov 20 2013: Well, Harald, if you shower every day, then this idea might not be as useful to you. I shower almost every day, but once in a while am tired and don't. But if you ever find yourself on a day where you don't take a shower, for example, you are just tired, the idea might become useful. But at least where I live, it does take some courage, as by doing it you are different.

          Actually, though, I could imagine a day where I intended to shower, but I felt like doing my marketing first. In that case I might go in my pajamas to the market, which is across the street, buy food and come home, then shower, put on day clothes and do my day.

          When I said delight the eye, I did not mean you would focus on it, I only meant in a passing glance you might see it, and the variety might interest you. But if not, that's okay, too, I am doing this for practical reasons and only incidentally might it be aesthetically interesting.

          But are you really not interested in what people wear, this to me is interesting as I go about my day to see how people outfit themselves, how clothes relate to what they are trying to accomplish or what they say about their personality.

          If someone really wore the jeans and black turtleneck day in and day out, that could be an interesting choice, too. I would say it is about doing what comes naturally.

          Well, again, my main purpose in wearing PJ's to market is a practical one, it's to save the effort of two wardrobe changes, or to delay a wardrobe change when that is what I want to do. Perhaps most people don't give a damn.

          Well, I generally don't dress up for Halloween either. When I have, I have enjoyed it, it was fun to slip into a character, to feel different from the way I feel most of the time.
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    Nov 15 2013: When one is playing the role of Babe, in the musical theater production of "Pajama Game", she, and the rest of the cast wear pajamas on stage for one of the production numbers! My father was quite bent out of shape that his 35 year old daughter would wear pajamas on stage, even though they were long sleeve, long pant legs, cotton, very conservative mens pajamas!!!

    I usually put the trash out on the street early in the morning every week in PJs and robe, with a long coat or cape thrown over the PJs and robe.

    When it's really cold in the winter, I sometimes wear long johns to bed as PJs, and keep them on in the daytime as well....under cloths:>)

    I guess my PJ practices are not very risqué....LOL:>)
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      Nov 15 2013: but it was fun to be in your pajamas onstage just for the change? I do like the practice of going out in my PJ's, for example to a grocery, because it shakes up the routine for other people, reminds them that there are other ways to do things than just the routine way. And in certain situations saves me the effort of a clothing change. And maybe amuses people, one does feel a little bit onstage when one grocery shops in one's PJ's. I do wonder if people would be harder on a woman who wore her PJ's to a grocery, it seems like in certain situations we cut women more slack (than men) to not conform, and in other situations less, I mean based on their sex. Same going the other way, I think.

      What do you do to get out of a rut, colleen?

      Am I right, colleen, that a woman would come in for more criticism if she grocery shopped in her PJ's? Isn't that sad, that seems really sexist, people should be able to do what they want. I wish I could encourage you to get a little more adventurous in this category, sometime if you're just too tired to change out of your pajamas to go somewhere, just go there in them. But I'm a little afraid that it would open you to attack.
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        Nov 16 2013: Greg,
        I like costuming in conjunction with theater, so I enjoyed the PJ costume as much as I enjoyed the nun's habit, victorian gowns, or any of the other costumes I wore in plays.

        I have no doubt that you wandering around in PJs might "shake up the routine for other people". I have only known one person who wandered around in her pajamas, or underwear, or nothing at all. She certainly DID shake up the routine, as well as got herself labeled "mentally unstable".

        I learned as a kid that there are certain ways to dress that may be more or less appropriate in certain circumstances. For example, I feel fine about wearing Pajamas in my home, and I feel fine about wearing various costumes while performing a role on stage.

        If ever I start feeling like I need a change, I make a change in my routine. People generally ARE able to do what they want, and people also can be aware of other people. We have lots of establishments (restaurants, retail stores etc.) here in Vermont which have a sign on the door....."Shirts and shoes required to enter". In my perception, that is simply a matter of respect for ourselves and other people we may interact with. Walking around town in my pajamas does not appeal to me in any way, shape or form.
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          Nov 17 2013: well, Colleen, it's not a case where I was wandering around in my pajamas. It's more a case where I knew that I was going to be home most of the day, but I only had one errand to do, and it was across the street, it just didn't seem worth it to go through two wardrobe changes (to dayclothes and back to pajamas) for one short errand. If I had a more extensive day out, I would change into day clothes.

          It honestly didn't feel disrespectful to visit the grocery in my pj's. Most people try to save time and live efficiently, and I felt like most people would understand that behind my appearing in pajamas was some desire to save time and effort. But also it was fun, it felt a bit like dressing up for Halloween; and it felt like being more intimate with people; and it felt like it opened up options for other people, there might be the occasion where they might wish to go somewhere in their pajamas and it would be efficient but they might not do it simply out of a fear of being different. But in this case they see me being different, and they see that nothing bad is happening to me, so perhaps it makes it more of a possibility for them. Which is kind of what I'm trying to do with this conversation.

          It would seem like there are milder ways to make a change in one's routine, and stronger ones. I would class going to market in your pj's as a stronger one, and actually I would say it brings bigger rewards than a milder one, if you can bring it off. For one thing, it gave me the topic of a TED conversation, whereas a milder way of breaking routine might not. If you were a guy, I would advocate trying this particular way of breaking routine, but for a girl in America it might be untoward. Did you see the post from Yoka where she said it is a bit of a trend for Chinese to go to market in pj's , I presume she means both sexes although I asked her and she didn't answer.
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        Nov 17 2013: If it works for you....feels be it Greg:>)

        There are LOTS of ways to make changes in our routines. That is one thing I LOVE about the seasonal changes in Vermont, where I live.

        In summer I am outside almost ALL the time, gardening, biking, hiking, kayaking, walking, etc. Also can do lots of outside chores like painting the house, and things like that. More people visit, in summer, the porch is usually occupied either by just me, or groups of becomes a "living" room in the summer. I eat mostly fresh raw vegetables and herbs directly from the gardens.

        In the winter, the porch furniture goes inside, the north side of the house gets closed off, so I don't heat extra rooms that I do not use, it's time to start using the wood stoves, including the wood kitchen cook stove, where I make lots of warm foods.....soups and stews with the frozen vegetables from the gardens, bread, etc. I don't make or eat those things at all in the summer, so my diet changes. Sport and exercise activitys change to skiing, snowshoeing, etc (weather permitting), and I feel more like hunkering down and "nesting". I read more, communicate on TED and with friends by e-mail more, etc.

        That's summer and winter, and the seasons in between (spring and fall) are preparing for the next season. In the spring, I'm starting seedlings inside, that will go into the gardens, painting/repairing furniture that goes outside and on the porch, etc.

        In the fall, I prepare the house for winter.....putting up storm windows and doors, putting wood in the cellar to keep the fires burning, and making sure I'm tucked in for the winter:>) Then, of course, there are all kinds of things that come up all year which may change my focus and keep me entertained....LOL:>)

        There are lots of things in my life which happen, or I create, to make delightful changes in routine:>)
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          Nov 17 2013: well, it has a light, playful quality that I really enjoy, it's the same feeling I get from dancing here and there in the world in ordinary situations like waiting in line, it feels lighthearted and playful, not taking life too seriously, enjoying yourself even if you're not doing what everyone else is doing. I believe I've been a bit influenced by the punk music scene, colleen, there's an "anti-expert" idea in punk music that you don't have to have ten years of music lessons to play guitar in a band, you can just pick up a guitar and start playing basically and just have fun.

          Whew, your life sounds pleasant but quite a bit of work. Now you've never mentioned swimming, just out of curiosity are you self-conscious in a swimsuit as some people are.

          Well, as best I can tell you're very adventurous in that you talk with all kinds of people about all kinds of unusual ideas on TED (including this one), now do you think you initiate unusual ideas, or are you more oriented toward supporting other people's unusual ideas by sharing your thoughts and feelings? Let's just say you visited me at my apartment and I was in my pj's and I suddenly said aw I need to go to the market, would you accompany me if you were in your street clothes and I in my pajamas, or would you be too embarrassed? But I can tell you I've never seen anyone offended by it, in general people's faces soften and they smile, it's like we're sharing a joke.

          So far I'm kind of good at generating interesting questions, but who knows if it'll last. I've submitted a conversation to TED, it's: "To me, French is the most beautiful sounding language. So why isn't it the universal language?"
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        Nov 17 2013: I am all for playful, lighthearted, having fun and not taking life too seriously Greg:>)

        I call everything in life "work/play" because I LOVE it all. No, not self-conscious in a swimsuit....are you kidding me? One of my theatrical roles was as Sheila in "A Chorus Line".....I was on stage for the whole production in tights and a was the whole cast!

        I initiate some unusual ideas, AND I support other's ideas....depends on the situation! While hiking the other day, two of my buddies and I got a little turned around and lost track of the marked trail. I forged ahead up a steep incline because I thought we would bump into the trail at the top of the ridge. My buddies followed me, sort of grudgingly, then I started questioning my idea!!! Luckily, after climbing up the steep hill, we DID hit the trail......I was SOOOO thankful to see that trail, because they probably would have given me a hard time......lovingly of course!!! LOL!

        In the situation you mention above......I would probably wonder why you had PJs on if you were expecting me to visit......I probably would not go "out" anywhere with you, 'cause I think it's kind of weird. But again.....if it works for you, and you can entertain yourself in that way....carry on:>)
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          Nov 18 2013: thanks, Colleen. well, I love what you do on TED, both giving and receiving thoughts and feelings. Well, let's say in my scenario you had dropped in on me unexpectedly (fine with me), so I might be in PJ's and robe. I'm still thinking that there are stronger and milder ways to break routine, image is powerful, having both participated in TED conversations and gone to market in PJ's, I would have to say the latter is more powerful and more rewarding, although they are both excellent. It is true that in America going to market in PJ's is weird, but could we think of it as a "good weird"? Or use a more flattering word, like "exotic," or "pushing the envelope?" But still, Colleen, it is mostly practical, it's still just a case where I do it because I don't want to make two clothing changes just to run a 20-minute errand.

          One thing I do somewhat just to be different is put on a shirt and tie to go to the movies, or a shirt and tie to go to a rock concert. But this is also refreshing to me, if I've always gone to the movies just in a shirt, or shirt and jacket, it's mentally refreshing to do something different, and in my mind might be mentally refreshing to someone who saw me, if every time you've gone to the movies all you've ever seen is guys wearing shirts and jackets, might it not delight the eye to suddenly see one guy who is a little different, who is wearing a tie? And just so with PJ's in the market?

          Our family had to run a major garage sale when our friend died, so I put on a shirt and tie one day for that, it's not what most people might wear, but it was mentally refreshing to step outside the box. Of course it should only be what comes naturally, I wouldn't force it just to make a spectacle of myself.

          How do you meet all those people who congregate on your porch? I've never lived anywhere with a porch, maybe it would be good, at least in my mind it seems romantic.
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          Nov 18 2013: colleen, here's a famous photo, that was used as an album cover, that I always thought was shot on a porch. But now that I'm looking, maybe the sofa is just off to the side of the front door?

          By the way, looks like TED rejected my conversation, they can be awfully hard to figure, mine that get rejected often seem just as good as the accepted ones. Any thoughts on why French isn't the universal language, given that it's the most beautiful sounding?
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          Nov 18 2013: colleen, any thoughts on "indecent exposure" laws, why do we think it's bad for a person to go to the grocery in the nude? I asked a policewoman once, she said because it might bother children. But I don't think it would bother children, do you?
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        Nov 19 2013: Greg,
        Re: "here's a famous photo...."
        Yes, that looks like a porch all right....quite different from my porch though!

        How do I meet the people who congregate on my porch?
        I have lots of friends who like to sit on the porch and I mentioned, in the summer it becomes a "living" room....we eat out there, it is surrounded by gardens, and we can hear the water fall which is near the porch. When it is raining, I often sit on the porch and is a very pleasant "scene" to be part of. The gardens were featured in 4 publications and a short TV segment, so that draws a lot of people. You know the saying..."build it and they will come"? Well, I built it and they came. Since the beginning of my life adventure, I seem to draw people to me, and I love it!

        Re: Thoughts on indecent exposure....
        My only thought is that I have no desire to do it:>)

        Re: " Colleen. well, I love what you do on TED, both giving and receiving thoughts and feelings".
        Thank you Greg. Communication is one of the most precious elements in my life.

        I agree with you that it is often mentally refreshing to do something different, and it is apparent in our world that different people are attracted to different kinds of things. As I said in a previous comment.....I like costuming, and often wear clothes which have a style influenced by another era. To each his/her own regarding what we/they choose wear:>)
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          Nov 19 2013: To me it doesn't look like a porch because a porch usually is raised, plus it has an overhang, plus the front door is right there. Is this how you would describe a porch?

          Are the gardens remarkable in some way, Colleen, I would say many people have nice gardens but not notable enough to get into magazines and TV.

          No, I don't want to break the law, either, but I do enjoy understanding the rationale for different laws, as well as the rationale for people's actions, ideas, etc.

          Yes, fresh is important to me, I try to be fresh in my comments on TED, too. Excellent point that refreshment is different for all. I hadn't caught your comment on old-timey clothes, here in L.A. we might call them "vintage," and there are whole stores devoted to them.
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        Nov 20 2013: Greg,
        The definition of porch, is simply "a covered entrance to a building usually with a separate roof". If the one in the photo you posted "doesn't look like a porch" to you, I am curious as to why you posted that photo in conjunction with our discussion about porches.

        I think the gardens are "remarkable" Greg.....I think everything in nature is pretty remarkable:>)
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          Nov 20 2013: Let's see, Colleen, you had thought the photo was shot on a porch? But it doesn't seem like it has a separate roof, does it, if you look at the play of sunlight? Nor does it seem like an entrance, given the windows?

          I was probably interested in how it was that I made a mistake all these years and thought it was shot on a porch, I thought by sharing it I might get closer to figuring that out. But it does have a "porchy" feel, I would say, in other words it has that relaxed feeling of sitting on a couch on a porch.

          Well, yes, I suppose everything in nature is remarkable, well, I would still think that when a TV station does a story on a garden there would be something unusual about it, but perhaps I should ask what the "angle" was when these media did stories on your garden. Just trying to picture your life, Colleen, when I talk to someone other than live and in person, I enjoy trying to picture how they live.

          By the way, had the French question interested you? I still think it's a great topic, if French is the most beautiful sounding language, why isn't it the universal language?
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        Nov 20 2013: Greg,
        If you look in the upper left corner of the photo you posted, on the right side of the mailbox (maybe touching the mailbox), you may see a support (white), going up out of the picture, which is very typical of a porch roof support. Anyway, the definition says..."...usually with a separate roof". Separate, meaning not an extension of the main building roof, but rather held up with supports. I don't really care if you want to call it a porch or not! I am not invested in your perception of what is a porch or not a porch:>)

        The "angle" for the gardens appearing in publications and TV, was generally a place to relax, ponder, enjoy, etc. There were actually spiritual groups/meditating groups which used to meet in the gardens, and most garden clubs in the area have visited at least once....usually well as MANY (hundreds) of individuals:>)

        There was one publication that focused on the stone work, which my brothers and I did. It is said that if you have seen Colleen's gardens, you know Colleen. There is also a picture of the front porch on this link...enjoy:>) ) French language question does not interest me, because there are LOTS of languages that are very my humble perception:>)
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          Nov 20 2013: Well, I enjoy attempting to understand what I am seeing in a photo, and maybe a little bit about architecture, I thought perhaps you would help me understand it. I had seen the support, I just thought it would be a support of one side of the overhang and the other support would be off-camera, to our left. In other words, the guys are sitting next to the porch but not on it. Except even if that's right, I'm not sure it would be what I think of as a porch because it doesn't seem raised.

          Oh, I'm sorry, colleen, I started this reply without looking at the link, if I go to the link now I'm afraid I'll lose what I've written. Do you yourself meditate, or practice "spiritual" practices?

          Excellent point about the languages, that would have been the kind of thing I was looking for if the question was posted. The only other person I've ever talked to about it agrees that French is the most beautiful sounding.
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          Nov 20 2013: wow, those gardens are amazing, Colleen. You care for them all by yourself, how can you do that? How did you learn, oh wait, had you told me your mom had gardens? But still......

          Being interested in cow milk I'm probably most interested in grass, somewhat to the exclusion of other plants. Sometimes as I pick grass during the day and eat it, I get some green from the grass smeared on my thumb, I'm hoping it's a good sign that I'm acquiring a "green thumb." My mom is quite successful with houseplants, she has a ledge she can put them on where they get much light, and she thinks that is the secret.
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        Nov 22 2013: Thanks Greg, for your kind words about the gardens. My brothers and friends have helped me a lot with projects, and I kind of take care of the regular ongoing maintenance. My mother was in her gardens when she went into labor for me....we went to the hospital....did our thing....and went back home to the gardens. I feel like I was born in a garden, and have had gardens ever since. That is one way to nurture a "green thumb" Greg!

        I do meditate Greg....sometimes organized sitting meditations, and sometimes just "being" in the gardens in a meditative state:>)
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          Nov 22 2013: Hi, colleen. Well, that's quite something that you can maintain them, have you only learned from experience or gone to classes, would you say there is anything remarkable about your system of maintenance that allows you to keep up with it all, or would you say any gardener could do it?

          I am trying to work through my feelings about gardens, colleen. As I say, I am fascinated by grass, one thing I like about it is it seems low-maintenance, simply water it and it will do okay. Things like flowers seem so much less dependable, needing more care, and finicky. So I might be happier if you said you had been born on a grass field!

          Is it some recognized form of meditation you do when you do the organized ones? My best friend from Stanford, Phil Ansell, is into meditation. He also goes on Saturday mornings and does something called "sacred dance."

          I remember some years ago I moved from Los Angeles to a city called Ontario, Calif., about 50 miles east of Los Angeles. I hoped to get a job milking cows there, but while I looked for that I picked grapes for a season. One day I missed work because I got there early and then lay down to sleep among the rows of grapes, and none of the others saw me as they arrived to work. So they went off to other fields and when I awoke I could not find them. But when I told them about it the next day, they all smiled, they thought it was a charming reason to miss work.

          I've been trying to belly dance while I shave in the morning, moving my body sensuously and in fact the arm holding the shaver sensuously. I put a few slices in my face, it will be a learned skill. But it is wonderful exercise.
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        Nov 23 2013: Greg,
        I've learned to garden mostly from experience, and I perceive it as another exploration in the life adventure. The only thing that may be remarkable about my system of maintenance, is that I consider it all fun and enjoyable.....challenging at times.....still a pleasure:>)

        Some of the less hardy flowers can be finicky, and I find that most perennials (come back every year) are usually very hardy.

        I have done sitting and walking meditations with an organized group.....nothing particularly noteworthy about the practices.

        Be careful with belly dancing and shaving at the same time. I thought you said you didn't multi-task?
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          Nov 23 2013: Thanks, Colleen. You have a beautiful attitude, have you always had it, I think you mentioned something about a near-death experience? Why have you not remarried, as you would be a wonderful partner and seem like you would want a partner.

          Now what does snow do to flowers, if I think of pansies, or California poppies, I would certainly think snow would kill them. But maybe not?

          The only meditation I know is where you repeat the same phrase over and over. For instance, my friend says the Hebrew for "Hear, O Israel, the lord thy god is one god" over and over in his brain to become meditative, is that what you were doing?

          Thanks for the caution. I did much better this morning, taking shorter, more careful strokes, but still very sensuous. When I belly dance while shaving I actually spread the shaving cream more here and there, I just let my arms and hands go where they will spreading cream in graceful, dancing movements. So I get cream on my head hair, facial hair, chest, stomach. Then let the hand with the razor do the same, so I shave a little head hair here and there, facial hair, and so on, "dancing" with the hand and arm holding the shaver. It's a bit of an experiment to see where I'll end up appearance-wise, as it's a bit random, I'm just moving in sensuous ways and letting the shaver follow.

          Sometimes people bellydance with swords, which is a little like the experience I've had with the shaver. But it may take more practice with a sword, I'm already okay with the shaver after two days.

          Speaking of pajamas I wish I could show you how I've taken in the waist of my pj's, when I lost weight on milk they got big. Basically I just kind of fold the waist over on itself in a one-inch length and then sew it, and do it two or three times on the waist, I usually sew while wearing a garment, so if you saw the pants it would be very evident where the waistband had been folded over to reduce waist size.....
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          Nov 23 2013:'s the concept of deconstruction, do you know this concept, it's where you show the details of how something was constructed instead of artfully hiding them. For example, some modern buildings won't install a typical ceiling, they will let you see all the pipes, conduits, etc. above you on the floor you are on, this would be "deconstruction."
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        Nov 24 2013: Thank you Greg,
        The attitude I have seems much more enjoyable to me than the alternative, and from the feedback I get, it apparently is more enjoyable to most of those I interact with as well. The NDE intensified and reinforced the life experience.

        Why have I not remarried? Because I am very content with my life. If I met a person who is as content with his life, I am open to possibilities, and as I said, I am very content. One thing people sometimes ask me is...."why are you not are such a happy person?" I remind them to think about that statement!!! LOL:>)

        "Now what does snow do to flowers, if I think of pansies, or California poppies...."
        California poppies are annuals, which only grow one year. So when the cold and snow hits them, the plant dies back. However, they produce hundreds of seeds, which scatter around the gardens and "plant" themselves for the next year. In California, I think they are living their life span and reseeding all the time, so when there is a cluster of them, it may look like the same plants are living on and on forever. Perennials (come back every year) go dormant in the winter....they go to bed and rest....just like I do when I have my PJs on:>)

        Meditation: I do not have a particular mantra to use for meditation. It seems easy for me to clear the brain of mind chatter, so I am in a meditative state much of the time.....focusing on the present moment.

        I understand the concept of "deconstruction". In fact, on the regional project review committee, we have a deconstruction policy which we implement for things like communication towers, wind towers, land resource extraction, etc. When the projects are permitted, there is a condition, that when/'if they are ever no longer in use, the owner is responsible for deconstruction, so we don't have all these abandoned projects dotting the landscape. Towers need to be deconstructed, land resource extraction sites need to be landscaped and re-vegetated, etc.
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          Nov 24 2013: yes, I enjoy it. Well, when people say why haven't you remarried, they probably mean you're a desirable person who knows how to get along with people, so you'd work in a marriage. They might not say why haven't you remarried to a person who is gloomy and down in the dumps.

          Colleen, is there any reason why they a plant "dies back," wouldn't they just say the plant dies, why do they add the word back? Which plants can go dormant and withstand winter, I imagine winter is tough in Vermont.

          Possibly I do some version of meditation when I just lie in bed and occasionally turn my mind "off." but I'm still awake.

          I'm talking about deconstruction in quite a different sense. The idea is that most things are "constructed," purposely built so that you can't really see the seams, or the inner workings, but when you deconstruct you build something so a person can see the seams. For instance, we know that inside our walls there are many kinds of plumbing, electrical conduits, etc. Most of the time that is covered up by the wall. But a deconstructed architecture, they might not build that inner wall, so you'd be able to see all the pipes, wires, etc. I'll find you a link, but if I do it now I'll lose what I've written. But the concept you're talking about is important, too, your board is thinking ahead obviously.

          Today I'm on my mom's computer, I walked up here to buy tickets to an event online as I don't have a computer. Looks like the event messed up, where they say you can buy tickets you cannot, so I may have to go early and take my chances at the door.
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          Nov 24 2013: well, this link is the best I can find off the bat, I don't feel like reading the whole thing to see if it's perfect. But they mention how deconstructivism want to disassemble architecture, not disassemble completely, they still want to have a working building, but disassemble it so that the visitor sees somehow how it is made.
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        Nov 25 2013: Greg,
        The reason it is said that a plant "dies back" is because in the winter, the top part (foliage) dies back and the root is still living in a dormant state. That is why perennials come back every year....the winter does not kill only kills the top foliage, and the root goes to sleep (dormant) for the winter. In the spring/summer, when it is warmer, the perennials grow again for the summer months.....then go dormant (die back) again when it starts to get cold again.

        You ask...which plants go dormant in winter?
        Oh my goodness Greg....there are hundreds of plants that go dormant in winter conditions!
        Winter in Vermont can be cold is 7 degrees this morning:>)

        Yes we were using "deconstruction" differently. I have not heard the term "deconstructivism", in relationship to buildings built specifically with the intent that the infrastructure be left visible. We have lots of old buildings here that have been repurposed, and sometimes, the underlying systems are left visible. This happens quite a bit in old warehouse-type buildings that are now being used for different purposes like restaurants, for example. The basements are often utilized, and of course, there is often a lot of existing systems in the basement, which they incorporate into the design, rather than trying to cover it up:>)
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          Nov 25 2013: thanks, colleen. always wondered about that phrase. Now let's see, what is a flower that grows in a snowy climate and has a soft trunk (unlike a rose that has a hard, woody trunk)? Could those plants die back up above but the roots still survive? For example, do lupens grow naturally in a snowy climate and maybe they are perennial? I'm sorry I've started this comment so I can't google it.

          I was reading about grass and the author asserted that there are some grass plants that are older than 2000 years, than the redwoods, they just die back up top and then regrow but the roots survive. Hard to believe?

          I have eaten moss but that's very hard to separate the dirt. I have this idea that if you eat a plant that's very ancient you'll absorb some of that ancient wisdom, and mosses and algaes are the oldest living things on earth.

          For some reason ever since I learned about deconstructivism I've liked it and been interested in it. Maybe just because it's different and fresh (kind of like wearing your pj's to the supermarket), if all you've ever seen is a thousand buildings that are smooth and don't show the nuts and bolts you might like one that does show them.

          You can apply the concept to just about anything. For example, some theater tears down the "fourth wall" and very frankly admits this is a piece of theater, were you ever in a performance like that?
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        Nov 25 2013: Greg,
        If it is a perennial, the foliage will die back in the winter months, and the root will be dormant until the next warm season.

        Yes, Lupine are perennial, and often grow in snowy climates.

        I have never eaten moss, but have used it as a lovely "scrub" when bathing in mountain streams:>)
        Moss is also good for bee stings....put it directly on the sting, and it sooths it immediately.

        I have performed on a stage in the round (seats on all sides), and on a stage with only a back wall (seats on three sides)
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          Nov 26 2013: Huh, that's quite something, well, I just generally hate snow and wonder how anything can like it. How do you feel about it, Colleen?

          That's a lovely picture, scrubbing with moss in a mountain stream. I wonder if this is heftier moss than we get in the suburbs, I really haven't checked out wild forest moss.

          I'm thinking playing on a stage in the round would not necessarily be deconstructivist, Colleen, if the play were still presented as a set of real events, as most plays are. As best I know, deconstructivist might mean a character in the play would start talking about the play to the audience and be very forthright about it being "just a play." I've never seen a play like that, have you?

          I feel quite privileged that a woman who was successful in theater, you, talks to me, somehow it seems like actors are special and a bit of a "club."
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        Nov 28 2013: I love snow Greg. Remember in one conversation with you I wrote about how I love the seasonal changes? I love to see the earth covered in a beautiful white blanket in the winter, and I like to "nest" with the wood fires going. I usually cook and bake more in the winter, on the wood stove, and I love the feeling of it all. You create change in your life by going to the grocery store in your pajamas, and I enjoy seasonal changes in which I wear different cloths, eat differently, am more inside in winter and outside in summer, activities change, etc. etc.

        I think whether or not a play is presented as a real event, or fictional, there is usually a connection with real life experiences, simply because people are people, and humans have been dealing with similar situations and emotions for a very long time. Have I ever seen a play that was presented as "just a play"? Yes, I have seen plays with a narrator, expressing the idea that this is just a play. Unfortunately, any name of such plays escape me at the moment.....sorry.

        Actors are people Greg, same as you and me. I think we addressed that in another one of your conversations.
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          Nov 28 2013: well, for me, even if I'm in a warm house, I can somehow sense and feel that outside cold in my bones and so it's difficult to like it. Part of it is one knows that at some point one will have to go outside to do something and experience the cold. Have you lived in Vermont all your life, Colleen? Have I ever asked where you were born, I recall I started a convo about where people were born, but I didn't host it very well, as Yahoo! started sending TED answers to my spam and I didn't realize they were going there. Have you ever tried a warm place like Florida or SoCal, it is pretty nice.

          I've seen very few plays, as a general rule I have disliked going to the theater although enjoyed movies, can you figure? I have seen movies where an actor will address the audience directly, actually, those moments probably bug me, maybe in a movie I prefer to have the illusion it's "real," or at least somewhat real. In architecture I rather dig a "deconstructed" look.

          It does kind of feel like I am looking for change by going to market in PJ's, but what change is it? It is only a practical decision, only for practical reasons. Had you noticed that my TED profile photo is taken in my pajama shirt, it was supposed to be a practice photo to break in my new camera, but then I was satisfied with it.
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        Nov 28 2013: Greg,
        It seems from your comments that you have lived in California most of your life? That could be part of the reason for your discomfort with're not used to it?

        You ask..."Have you lived in Vermont all your life Colleen?"

        Not yet Greg!!! (That's an old Vermont joke!!! LOL:>)

        Seriously, I was born in Vt., and have lived here most of my life, and have also lived in warm climates for short periods....CA being one of them. They are all nice, and I REALLY like the seasonal changes in Vermont:>)

        No, I did not notice that your profile photo is taken in your pajama just looks like a shirt.
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          Nov 29 2013: well, it may be my milk diet, Colleen. On this diet, as I have said, I stay at the middle of normal on the BMI for my height. But that is definitely thinner than I've been at any other time of my life, and the lack of padding may make me more sensitive to cold. When I was in first grade my family lived in Canada for a year, and we have also had a vacation cabin in a snowy area. When I encountered the snow before being on this diet, it didn't bother me so much. But I'll take the diet over loving the snow.

          Well, the seasonal changes might be nice. My old friend moved to the state of Washington, and has had to grapple with tough weather. But every year I always want to call him on the first day of spring because I think it must be nice, sort of a compensation for the tough winter.

          Well, I'm cleaning up my mom's kitchen after Thanksgiving. We had about 13 gathered, family and one friend of family. I started out the day in my PJ's, and, since I didn't shower, I thought about staying in them all day, but changed into day clothes. I guess the day clothes seemed physically warmer. Yet if the guests hadn't come, I very well might have stayed in PJ's all day, and they would have been physically comfortable. I wonder what the connection is between the group coming, and the day clothes seeming physically warmer than the PJ's?

          Yes, I suppose it could seem like a regular shirt, but I believe the thicker texture, flannel, gives it away.

          How was your holiday? Anything creative or bold about it?
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          Nov 29 2013: I'm thinking maybe the reason I prefer movies to theater is movies have background music, background sound in general? That does add something to the experience?
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        Nov 29 2013: Yes Greg, I think sometimes music and other background sounds add to an experience, and in my perception, musical theater has that.

        I think you are right about a thinner body with less padding being less tolerant of the cold. I also think that as we age we become less tolerant of the cold.

        Spring is indeed nice, when it warms up and things start popping in the gardens...ready for another summer season.

        Sounds like a very nice gathering you had for Thanksgiving. I went to friends house for a lovely quiet dinner. A couple weeks ago 4 of my siblings and I took thanksgiving dinner to our brother...the one with COPD and somewhat homebound. He lives in a town further north, which is sometimes difficult to get to in winter weather. We had a lovely "Thanksgiving" there as well. Thank you for asking:>)
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          Nov 29 2013: true, colleen, although then it's not background, am I correct or am I wrong on that? Maybe musical theater is too much music? I guess it's somewhat a matter of taste. Probably movies make more money than theater?

          By the way, I think I decided that the reason I didn't want to wear my PJ's with guests over is that I knew the various doors would be opening and letting in the cold, doors open as guests arrive, and as guests go outside to stroll in the backyard. And as they come back in. I like warm.
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        Nov 29 2013: I agree that it is a matter of taste and preference Greg. Music in musical theater productions can be subtle background music, or it can be featured. I like to be warm too, which is why I wear LOTS of layers in the winter!
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          Nov 29 2013: Do you mean that if you have musical theater with a live orchestra the orchestra sometimes plays live music while the characters talk, or do some action? But non-musical theater never does that, or at least that I've seen? Maybe you don't want to spend money for an orchestra just to play background music?

          Just had a funny image of the orchestra in their pajamas.

          My grandparents were pastors. I think sometimes as a stunt the teens in the youth group would declare a pajama day where they all went to restaurant breakfast in pj's and robe, and would come and get my grandparents at their house, who would have to put on their robes and come along. My grandparents were good sports and would have gottten a kick out of it, I'm sure. Sound like fun?
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        Nov 29 2013: Right Greg....the orchestra sometimes plays background music to set the scene for dialogue, it plays to accompany singers, dancers, and sometimes, depending on the scene, the orchestra music may be featured. Right again....non musical theater generally doesn't have music.....but it can. I did "On Golden Pond", which is not generally a musical production, but we had live guitar music contributing to the scenes.
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          Nov 29 2013: was it nicer for you having music contributing to the scenes, or did it make no difference? Well, I somewhat wish I preferred theater, Colleen, as in theory I think it is important to be with living, in-the-flesh people. What do you think? I would say I feel somewhat guilty for participating in TED conversations for the same reason, that it's better to be with flesh-and-blood people? But there are distinct advantages to internet communication, it is easier to find a fairly large number of people who share your interest, in this case discussing ideas.

          I am going to see a new movie out today, "Homefront," a kind of cheesy "crime thriller" I enjoy much. Another guilty pleasure? Do you have any of those?
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        Nov 29 2013: Greg,
        Music seemed to enhance a scene when it was appropriate to do so. One thing I learned more about with involvement in theater, is to be ready to adapt and adjust to changing situations. It was a job that I loved, and there was a director (director, music director and choreographer in musical theater), so I followed directions and had fun with the process.

        I have never been a big fan of going to the movies, although I do once in a while. I have traditionally liked theater more. I like TED communications as well as communications in person.

        I don't think I have any "guilty pleasures". If it is pleasurable, I see no reason to feel guilty, and if there is a feeling of guilt, it probably isn't genuinely pleasurable.
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          Nov 30 2013: Well, when you have watched movies, would you agree that the background music has enhanced the experience, Colleen? I mention movies because background music is far more common in movies, almost every movie has it, whereas almost no theater has it? I wonder what the background music does, well, it adds an extra layer of emotion, I suppose? And excitement, there is something exciting about music? Also, it fills in some spots with sound where otherwise there would be no sound, or uninteresting sound, that seems to work as well?

          Mom was saying movie sound might be better because the performers are miked perfectly? Of course the volume is higher.

          Thanks for sharing your theater experiences. How did you get into it? Did you go to college, have a college degree?

          Your lack of guilty pleasures seems wholesome and "up." But, for example, Mom again was saying her guilty pleasure is food. You don't think she is really enjoying it?
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        Nov 30 2013: It probably does enhance it Greg, although to say for sure, I would have to see it with and without the music. All musical theater has music.

        I think I told you this before and I'll answer your question again....
        I wanted to get back into music, so I auditioned for a community musical theater production....then did more and more and more.....and it evolved into a profession. In between times, I took acting classes, voice and dance lessons to improve my skills and endurance:>)

        I do not know if your mom is enjoying food Greg.....that's something you can ask her:>)
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          Nov 30 2013: that's an excellent idea to compare the two. If I do it in my imagination, I do believe the one without music is much less interesting. So that may be part of why I prefer movies. Another thing is that they're kind of convenient, you can go so many different times of day, seven days a week. And they're local, so you're familiar with the venue, parking, etc.

          I think you did mention it, Colleen. But I'm not sure if you mentioned taking the classes, that was smart on your part. Do you have any idea why some people like to perform more than others, some people would be much too shy to get up on stage and dance and sing in front of other people. But it seems like it's the people who are willing to get up and be in the spotlight, in any profession, who get the most rewards?

          Well, I asked, the quick answer was she feels guilty an hour after she eats.
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        Nov 30 2013: Greg,
        Perhaps it is similar to comparing a book to the movie version of the same story? They both have different elements which may or may not stimulate us in different ways.

        I agree....the classes were good, because I had to learn how to maintain the voice and the body for extended periods of performances.

        I suspect the motivation to perform on stage is different for different people. My motivation, was simply to get back to singing, and it kind of mushroomed into lots of other things. The greatest "rewards" for me were all the incredible lessons learned throughout the experience:>)
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          Dec 1 2013: sounds like you have the beginnings of a great idea there, Colleen. Could you say more about what the difference is between how a book stimulates you, versus the movie version of that same book?

          Would you mind filling me in what you mean by "maintain" the voice and body?

          Mm, your motivation was to get back to singing, but in theory you could have just.......sung around the house? There was something different about doing it on stage? What were the rewarding lessons learned?
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        Dec 1 2013: I don't think it's really a new idea Greg:>)

        While reading a book, I imagine how the characters and the scene look.....I form a picture, based on the written word and my own imagination. Sometimes, when I see the same story made into a movie, the characters, dialogue and scenes are very different, which sometimes has a significant impact on the story. Sometimes, with the production of the movie, they add things that will sell....more drama and violence for example. In general, I like the book more than the movie which may be based on a book.

        Maintaining the voice and body simply means keeping it in shape. In musical theater, there is often quite a bit of singing and dancing. When one is singing for 2-3 hours every night for a couple weeks, it is important to know, and use the voice appropriately, so we don't overtax it. Same with the's important to have enough energy to sustain the performance, so staying in good physical condition is beneficial.

        Lessons learned:
        Working together with a group of people to create a production. How to adapt and adjust to changing circumstances, and different scenes. How to take good care of the body and stay in shape, patience, gratitude, persistence......those are just a few lessons learned and/or reinforced.
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          Dec 1 2013: Can you say why you generally like the book better?

          What are the methods to maintain the voice and body?

          I have much enjoyed working as a TV and movie extra. I really enjoyed learning the behind-the-scenes structure, for example, how extras get hired, what is a working day like, and so on. Plus the experience is colorful and intense, movies themselves are colorful and intense, and working on and in them is, too.

          Do you think you have a "showbiz" personality? What is the connection between being good at TED conversations and working in showbiz?
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        Dec 3 2013: I thought I already said that Greg!

        I usually like the book better because...
        "While reading a book, I imagine how the characters and the scene look.....I form a picture, based on the written word and my own imagination. Sometimes, when I see the same story made into a movie, the characters, dialogue and scenes are very different, which sometimes has a significant impact on the story. Sometimes, with the production of the movie, they add things that will sell....more drama and violence for example. In general, I like the book more than the movie which may be based on a book."

        You ask..."What are the methods to maintain the voice and body?"
        Exercising, eating and sleeping well, vocalizing.....generally being healthy.

        I do not know what a "showbiz" personality is Greg. You probably have noticed that people in "showbiz" have many different personalities.
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          Dec 4 2013: Well, I apologize if I didn't catch it, I suppose if the movie was different from the book one might actually like the movie better. Ditto if the movie was more dramatic or violent one also might like it better although that might not be you, Colleen. Just trying to possibly get to a place where I appreciate theater as well as movies, think tapping into your mind might help me.

          By showbiz I meant flamboyant, big, dramatic, also intelligent and insightful. Likes attention. Some of these qualities do seem like they would help in a TED conversation.
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        Dec 4 2013: I agree might like a movie better than a book, and one might like a book better than a movie.....we are all different, with different likes, dislikes, preferences, etc.

        No Greg, I am not flamboyant or extremely dramatic in my everyday life, and I don't perceive all actors to be that. Actually, many actors are very shy. What one sees in the tabloids is not typical of all "showbiz" people. Think about the number of people who are in showbiz, and think about the few that you may see CONSTANTLY in the news. It is not at all an accurate reflection of most people in showbiz.
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          Dec 4 2013: right. you were saying that in most cases you prefer the book to the movie, I was just wondering why? Perhaps the images in your imagination usually please you more than those some outside person creates? The images in your imagination are more beautiful, or.....?

          good point that actors have different personalities. Have I asked, Colleen, whether you think performing is more mentally stimulating than other kinds of jobs, I believe that working as a TV-movie extra has been more intellectually enriching for me than, say, working in more ordinary jobs like driver, cashier, office clerk, and so on.

          If you wish to share, would enjoy knowing if you got anything out of the relationship with the audience, I know you mentioned the benefits of theater work but they seemed to be more about working with fellow performers.

          Yes, I don't think my diet makes it hard for me to change into pj's at night. As a matter of fact, it's when I eat solid food that I am more tired.
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        Dec 5 2013: Hi again Greg,
        I believe that it is not the particular job that is more or less stimulating, but rather our perception, attention to, curiosity about the task that creates more or less stimulation. I think/feel that situations are often what we make of them. I have had some wonderful experiences within what may seem like ordinary, or less stimulating situations, because I am open to possibilities:>)

        Yes, I absolutely DID feel the energy of the audience as a whole, and sometimes with individuals in the audience. I feel an energy flow with people, and when that is felt by another person, it creates a stronger feeling of flow. Sometimes, if it felt like a particular person was more engaged with the performance, I was drawn to direct energy toward that person.
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          Dec 5 2013: I get that, colleen, although aren't the more open people going to gravitate toward the more interesting jobs, I mean Albert Einstein might have gotten bored with an office clerk job no matter how much he made it interesting? Maybe he could have invented the theory of relativity while typing correspondence?

          Beautiful description of your relationship with an audience. It might be a reason to go to theater, that you can genuinely connect with the performers, versus a movie. Did you ever encounter other actors with stage fright, were you able to help them at all?

          Are we still on the pajamas topic? I treasure the opportunity to learn from you.
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        Dec 5 2013: If I am not mistaken, Einstein DID develop the theory of relativity and write the breakthrough paper on it while working as a clerk in a patent office.
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          Dec 5 2013: I guess I have heard that, Fritzie. Or developed it in his off-hours. Still, he did move on to university teacher, a more stimulating job?

          I think Colleen and I keep discussing this, I think some people and jobs are exceptionally good, and I think she believes there's not so much difference between different people, and different jobs (I hope I haven't misrepresented her.) Maybe there's some truth to both our positions.
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          Dec 6 2013: Fritzie and Greg,
          I think there is a difference in people and jobs, and I don't label or categorize jobs as better/worse, more or less stimulating. It depends a lot on the talents, skills, abilities and preferences of different people.

          In my perception and experience, there's also a preference for different jobs within a certain time period. For example, when I was acting, I also managed and maintained rental units. Sometimes, I'd be in the city one day on an acting job, being pampered and paid lucratively, and the next day I was cleaning and repairing a trashed apartment. Both jobs were contributing to my life experience in different ways, so I enjoyed the opportunities equally as much:>)
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        Dec 5 2013: I agree that there are some great matches between person and job. A job one person would love and find stimulating another would not necessarily, depending on his different talents, interests, and preferred ways of working.

        I think also that in any undertaking or experience, some people are more disposed to focus on the pluses and minimize the minuses than others are. Anyone can be happier with an experience if he decides to focus on the opportunities rather than the inconveniences.
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          Dec 6 2013: so you don't think there are jobs that almost everyone would agree are better than other jobs, for example, wouldn't almost everyone agree that it's better to be a movie star than to be an office clerk?

          I believe you joined this conversation almost at the end, Fritzie, thanks for doing that. One new question that came into my mind as we conducted it is whether most people sleep barefoot, and why. After all, if we say our pajamas rather parallel our day clothing in the sense of covering our body, you would think we would wear socks when we sleep paralleling our wearing socks during the day. I'm thinking, however, many people sleep barefoot, if true I wonder why? Do you yourself sleep barefoot?
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        Dec 6 2013: I believe many introverts would prefer being office clerks.

        I do not know what proportion of people sleep in socks. I would guess more people regularly pad about the house in bare feet than in socks.
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          Dec 6 2013: any sense in which an introvert could say being a movie star is a better job even if it isn't a better job for him, or her?

          well, here's one link I found I just find my feet are hot and uncomfortable under the covers of the bed with socks on, but I like to pad about the house with socks on wearing the same clothes I was wearing in bed, and when not in bed but wearing socks my feet feel fine. Can't figure out the physiology?

          If you notice, the link says women are three times as likely to wear socks to bed, wonder why?
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          Dec 6 2013: I love bare feet in the summer, and in the winter in Vermont, I usually wear at least one pair of socks around the house and sometimes in bed! LOL!
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        Dec 6 2013: Hi Greg:>)
        Regarding your comment...
        "I get that Colleen although aren't the more open people going to gravitate toward the more interesting jobs...."

        Who decides what is more or less interesting? Do you suppose what is interesting may be different for different people? I believe that is the case.

        Regarding connecting with an audience......yes, connecting with people is always a lovely experience for me no matter what the situation is:>)

        Re: Stage fright.....yes, I've met performers who experienced stage fright, and I myself had a challenge with that in the beginning. I got very nervous prior to a performance sometime to the point of feeling physically ill. I worried about forgetting my lines or blocking, choreography, words of the songs, what if I messed up the performance, etc...Once I was on stage, it was fine and went well.

        I worked with a very good director, who recognized the challenge and reminded me that we rehearsed...did our homework well, put in the time and energy to create a good performance, and we could believe in that....let go of the worry, and enjoy the process. He also reminded me that we have energy running through us, and we can use that energy as a positive force, or a negative. If we focus on all the mistakes we could make, it actually can interfere with our ability to perform well (stage fright). When we believe in ourselves and our ability, we can go with the flow and enjoy the experience.

        In another comment, you asked me what lessons I learned while performing....this is an important one for me, which I incorporated into the life the homework...put in the time and effort...gather all available information, and believe in myself:>)

        I treasure the opportunity to learn with you too Greg:>)
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          Dec 6 2013: Thanks, Colleen. Well, if you say what is interesting for different people can be different, then are you implying that in no case can we decide upon an absolute? For example, what if we said that what is bad and deserves punishment is different for different people? How then would we prosecute people for a crime, the worst being murder?

          I agree that it's lovely to connect with people, by connect we mean that we are comfortable in each other's presence, that we feel we have something to say that the other person will value, and vice versa? Is that about what "connect" means to you?

          Really appreciate the behind-the-scenes experiences. I've deeply enjoyed working as an extra, and learned a great deal in spite of being "just" an extra. In film I guess you play to an imaginary audience, well, in most cases I was probably not trying to connect with the audience because that would remind them it's a piece of fiction, I was more trying to act like I'm a real person really doing whatever I'm portraying, and have no awareness that any audience is watching me. In my last extra job I had a long "bit" with an actor named Tony Hale, who I noticed just won an Emmy.

          Now I'm picturing you barefoot surfing about an eight-footer in the warm California sun.
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        Dec 6 2013: No Greg, I am not suggesting that in no case can we decide upon an absolute. I certainly do not believe in deciding what is absolute for another individual, although we may choose what is considered absolute for ourselves as individuals.

        Your question was about jobs, and I said it may be different for different people depending on an individual's talents, skills and preferences. Now you bring in differences regarding punishing people for crime, which is another topic.

        Yes you have a good idea of what "connecting" with people means:>)
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          Dec 6 2013: well, I do think it's an intellectual problem, I mean, if we say there are no absolutes regarding what is the best job to get, how then do we say there are absolutes when it comes to whether you can inflict violence on someone else? I probably still think some jobs are absolutely better than others, and there are also absolutes as to you should not hurt other people. Do you think there are absolutes when it comes to prohibiting violence? How do you justify saying the job preference is subjective, and the violence feeling is objective?
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      Nov 17 2013: Colleen crawling under the quilt in long john. Haha!
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        Nov 17 2013: Dear Pabitra from a warm country,
        Up here in the north country, it is very common to wear long johns to bed with SEVERAL quilts! There is a joke about long johns up here......we put them on in November and take them off in April.....maybe it's not really a joke:>(

        When I was acting, I was often cast about 10 years younger than I actually was, and when people in the city discovered my real age, they asked ....what's your secret? How do you stay looking so young? My response often was....."I live in Vermont, and frozen meat doesn't spoil"......there may be some truth to that:>)
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    Nov 11 2013: You mentioned an interesting thing also happening in China. Some people tend to wear their pajamas to go to the wet market or shop in their neighborhood. As I know most foreingers consider it as an uncivilized behavior and more and more Chinese people have become opposed to it.I once asked a Japanese about his thinking of wearing a pajama to go out. He told me because when you wear it to go out, there're lots of chances to get your pajama dirty even if you don't notice. And when you come back home, you'll bring the bacterias or dirty things to your home or bed. So it's not sanitary for your health. I think it's a persuasive reason for you to reconsider whether you'd like to wear your pajama out or not. And I also think a pajama is much more casual than usual clothes, sometimes people will show too much skin of some body parts , which makes people think you're lazy or slattern or don't respect others enough.
    However, it still depends on the culture of your people around. If people around you don't mind, and your pajama looks "formal", it won't be a sore in people's eyes. And if you try it once in a blue moon , that might be some fun for both.:)
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      Nov 11 2013: Thanks, Yoka, it's very interesting to hear about different cultures, China is different from America because here noone except me wears their pajamas to shop. But I don't find the reason persuasive that you can get something on you and not notice, after all when you shop you don't normally get any stain on you, do you? I don't. The showing skin part I don't know, in my case I tie the bathrobe, therefore it conceals most of the body. Apparently the Chinese are leaving the bathrobe untied? But I'm not very self-conscious about the body, for example I like to go to nude beach and strip. Do they have nude beach in China?

      But is it mostly males who are going out, here in the U.S. I think a female would be more criticized than a male for going out in pajamas and bathrobe, in fact people might think she was vulnerable to sexual attack.
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        Nov 12 2013: You're entitled to your opnion. It's not about stain sometimes, it's some potential risk of bacteria and stain. And the most important is the pajama reminds people you're at home and your mental outlook is not very serious. After all , you're in a public place not your home. And I agree with you women have more disadvantages than men to wear a pajama out. Compared with pajama, I think I can't accept a person wear a bathrobe covering a naked body to appear in a public place with a lot of people. In China, strip and nudists are forbidden in the public and illegal. We don't have any nude beach yet.
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          Nov 12 2013: well, Yoka, if I go to the market I don't touch many things, most of them are in packages, most of them are fresh and clean, for myself I don't worry too much about bacteria. But I suppose some might. I heard once there are more bacteria at a post office than anywhere else, but I don't know if it's true.

          Well, if I saw someone once in pajamas and bathrobe I think to me I would think they were trying to save time in some way, it would not to me be a comment on their mental outlook. If they did it often it might seem different. But I see how others might see it that way.

          Here in the United States we have one person who made some fame for working at home in his pajamas, that would be Hugh Hefner, the head of the Playboy empire. Playboy is a magazine with some articles of general interest and a centerfold which is a beautiful naked young woman. Hugh Hefner lives at a mansion about 20 miles from me, it is a famous house famous for parties, called the Playboy mansion.

          Can you say the reasons why women have more trouble to wear pajamas out?

          Well, here we cannot go in public naked either except I can only think of nude beach. When I went to the nude beach I saw it was near a big mass of rock on one side so nobody further up the beach could see you. Then on the other side the people who weren't nude were a long distance down the beach, there was a big stretch of sand between the nude people and the ones in swimsuits. But I don't know what enforced the separation, there was no fence or anything. When I went in the ocean I saw that by the nude beach the ocean floor was very unpleasant to walk on with many little rocks. So maybe the people down the beach in their clothes had a better place where there was sand on the bottom of the ocean instead of rocks.

          What is your fashion, what sort of clothes do you like to wear?
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        Nov 12 2013: "Can you say the reasons why women have more trouble to wear pajamas out?"

        Your former post can answer it:

        "But is it mostly males who are going out, here in the U.S. I think a female would be more criticized than a male for going out in pajamas and bathrobe, in fact people might think she was vulnerable to sexual attack."
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          Nov 13 2013: well, my question would be why people would think she was vulnerable to sexual attack. Partly I guess pajamas and bathrobe are associated with bed, the bedroom and so is sex, so people put the two together. Also a woman here in pajamas and bathrobe would stand out as different, and people sometimes want to attack something that is different. Since women are not as physically strong, they cannot fight back as well.
  • Nov 9 2013: sleeping,reading,talking to my family members.
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      Nov 9 2013: Thanks, edulover, I hadn't thought about the conventional things one does in one's pajamas and bathrobe. How about unusual things, do you ever go out in public in pajamas and bathrobe?

      I think a woman might get more criticized if she went to the grocery store in her pajamas and bathrobe than a man would. Do you agree? Why is that? Maybe she seems more vulnerable that way, like she is asking to be raped?
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        Nov 11 2013: Do you think the concept of 'asking to be raped' is a valid one? If so, what has a heterosexual male prisoner to wear to get some of his inmates going for an answer?

        Besides that, I wouldn't mind anyone in public wearing their pajamas and bathrobe.
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          Nov 11 2013: Lejan ., can you give me more info on your question, "Do (I) think the concept of 'asking to be raped' is a valid one?" I wasn't saying that a woman wearing her pajamas and bathrobe to do her grocery shopping is asking to be raped, I'm just thinking some people might (mis)perceive her that way. In this situation a woman might be more vulnerable for not conforming, whereas a man can get away with it.

          You wouldn't mind someone in public wearing their pajamas and bathrobe, but could you do it, or would you be too self-conscious, feel too silly? But what if it saved you the effort of changing clothes twice?
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        Lejan .

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        Nov 11 2013: Yes Greg, I will give you more info on my question.

        The phrase you used I heard several times in the context of real rape trials, mainly given by the defending attorney from the rapist side, trying to reduce the guilt of its client by partially blaming the victim herself. And this only when the victim is a woman and never when the victim is a man.

        To me this argument is not just complete nonsense but also highly dangerous, as it not only introduce a non valid guild reversal, yet also relieves rapist of their very own responsibility for their sexual behavior and violence. And since the invention of masturbation, this can't be! And this is not meant as a joke!

        How could anyone possibly (mis)perceive a woman in such a way, that she is asking to be raped? There is no such thing, as rape is the violent enforcement of intercourse, and nobody could possibly be perceived under no given circumstances to actually want that!

        Therefore I felt highly uncomfortable when I read that you were using the same 'spin phrase' in your comment, which made me ask you directly about your view on its 'validity' to see, if you actually agree on this 'concept' or used it without negative intention yet by unreflected 'common' usage.

        Regarding me and pajamas and bathrobes is to say, that I don't use both of them anymore since early childhood and would therefore feel pretty silly in public, if I was wearing what I wear instead - underpants and T-shirt, whereas the latter would be less of my concern.
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          Nov 11 2013: well, if someone has brought a charge of rape against someone, that shows that they did not want to be raped, correct? No, Lejan ., it just seems to me that people might be more critical of a woman here in the States who only went in her bathrobe and pajamas, more critical than they would be of a man, I was hoping to see what others thought of that.

          I think we think of Germany as a slightly stiff country, thus people would not like someone shopping in their bathrobe and pajamas, man or woman? Perhaps this is incorrect. Are there nude beaches in Germany, we have them in Southern California in somewhat hidden locations. I have gone and gotten nude, I enjoyed it immensely. When I went to the ocean I found they had given us nude people a less desirable section as the ground under the water was all tiny rocks rather than sand. But I still enjoyed.

          I wish I could go naked to the grocery if I wanted to. I'm thinking the concern might be more of a sanitation issue than an aesthetic one, in other words you might sit on something and get some fecal stains on it. But you know, even if you sleep in your underwear, putting on a bathrobe and tying it would hide it. This might be less effort than putting on all your clothes. But maybe people would be too critical if you tried to shop like that, here I found people kind of liked it, I think it breaks people out of the rut of everybody doing the same thing the same way, it shows them there is another way to do it.
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        Nov 12 2013: Due to the help of sub-cultures, such as Punks, which formed in Germany within the 80s as well as by an ever changing fashion industry, the overall indignation threshold has risen quite a bit in Germany since. There are certainly some dress-code expectations still, here and there, yet the general public has become quite tolerant today.

        As long as people aren't naked - which is considered public nuisance by law - people are quite save in their pajamas and face as wide a scope of critique - from smile to disgust - as usual within any grouping of people.

        Personally I don't pay much if any attention to what people are wearing, as this is not important to me, and only notice it every now and then, when a nice arrangement seems to resonate as a whole with an individual. Yet this isn't often and probably just me, making this up.

        There are many nude beaches in Germany and even a whole sub-culture which formed around it, which is named FKK, which stands for Freie (Free) Körper (body) Kultur (culture). Due to the given laws, those beaches have to be marked as such, to avoid confusion, yet I have also seen woman sunbathing topless at 'normal' beaches or in parks, without causing any outcry by other people. Probably because topless in only 'half' naked for a woman, whereas man are not expected to cover their nipples.

        A bathrobe is somewhat a relative of the Japanese Kimono or the Indian Sari or Persian Kurta and may well be discovered by western fashion designers one day for its practical function.
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          Nov 12 2013: Thanks, Lejan .. Now you told me you damaged your hearing by sitting near the speakers at concerts? What sort of music was that?

          I am quite surprised that you don't notice what people are wearing. To me what people are wearing is part of the environment, also a statement on creativity and personality. What aspects of your environment do draw your interest when you go out?

          I wonder, perhaps people don't replace their bathrobe very often? So perhaps designers don't play with it very much?
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        Nov 12 2013: I was joking when I mentioned that I damaged my hearing while I was dancing in front of a speaker in my teenage years. Hearing tests later in life confirmed proper hearing according to my age now, yet the music then was typically 80s. And it was not at a concert, but every now and then a visit in a discotheque at the weekend.

        Maybe it is those statements on creativity and personality which makes me realize every now and then what people are wearing, yet the usual and average jeans & shirts fraction doesn't trigger my attention.

        I notice style by its looks only, not by its logo, which has become an epidemic in the last decades to sew the labels on the outside, not in the inside anymore. Most of what we see today are advertising pillars and less individual creations, which may be the reason why my senses dulled. A friend of mine makes her dresses herself, and some of them I noticed and liked very much, because they perfectly matched her character, if this could be seen in cloth at all.

        I think you are right that 'people don't replace their bathrobe very often' and I assume this is related to the fact, that they don't wear them very often, at least on average, I would assume. If this was true, bathrobes then last longer and get replaced less often, which may gives designers some market signals in general.

        Lets wait till Apple makes them, then they'll boom ... :o)
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          Nov 13 2013: thanks, Lejan .. well, I was thinking that whatever music you were listening to you were exposed to the particular fashion styles of that scene, every music seems to have its certain fashion. In most cases if one likes the music one likes the fashion, and vice versa, agreed?

          Well, I'm quite interested in seeing even the jeans and shirt look, to me it does have some creativity and self-expression. For example, we can see a choice of colors, plus the combination of colors, choice of materials particularly in the shirt, perhaps the shirt has some kind of artwork, also some people wear jewelry, expensive or inexpensive, this is interesting. Also we can probably include hair and grooming in fashion, are you interested in hair styles for example?

          What is your own fashion style? Does it feel creative and self-expressive to you? What does it express? What music do you listen to now, and do you like the fashion of that scene?

          I have never bought a bathrobe. One I have I inherited when my grandpa died, and then one when my dad died. I don't know if there are ones that have interesting designs, mine are all pretty plain. When I see men in photographs in their bathrobe, they are pretty plain as well. Possibly men don't want bathrobes with a lot of design, this might suggest that they are going to spend the day in their bathrobe, and men don't want to be seen this way?

          I recall that Kurt Cobain of the rock group Nirvana would occasionally wear women's dress onstage to show his solidarity with women. Also I have seen him photographed in his pajamas, thus we see he had some freedom of dress. I remember I bought a lavender umbrella to show solidarity with gays, as here lavender is sometimes thought to be a color gay men like.
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        Nov 13 2013: I think the combination of fashion and music today is a marketing strategy intended to sell products in combination with a certain lifestyle, a certain illusion which is artificially created by specialists around and even for certain musicians and music groups to target their audiences. Especially young audiences, as these are still influenceable as their individual style has not yet consolidated.

        Logically there is no relation between music and cloth, as both serve complete different purposes, yet teenagers may feel closer to their musical idols by copying their looks, which in return sets the style of the 'scene'. The music industry knows about these mechanisms and manipulates it around certain artists to look & feel natural, although its a plain marketing strategy based on 'cross-pollination' and trend-scouting.

        Hair styles and me are incompatible ever since as my hair does what it likes and both of us agreed finally on our given symbiosis without fighting each other anymore for domination. It keeps my head warm in winter and shaded in the sun and I in return feed it with what it needs. Thats the compromise so far before it falls out or turns completely gray.

        Fashion and me is difficult as well because I barely find cloth which I instantly like, as this turned out to be my best adviser. Yet the pattern behind what I like I couldn't figure out in detail although I could explain to you why I don't like what I don't like. Color wise my favorite tones are natural, earthy or black (which is not considered a color) and the material should have a nice touch & feel and should not contain much plastic. Style wise I like all time classics, simplicity, practicality, durability and, if any, just small decorative elements, such as a decent embroidery or embossing in leather.

        I also once inherited a beautiful bathrobe by a relative of mine and kept it because of its beauty in my 'memory box'. And in case I ever change my current habit then I already have a nice one. :)
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          Nov 14 2013: Well, what is the illusion you are talking about, Lejan .? You are saying that if a pop singer generally wears beautiful, comfortable clothing, and she is depicted as having many friends and going to many parties, that this is not true, that in real life she doesn't have many friends or go to many parties? It's a bit hard for me to say if musicians have many friends or go to many parties, as I have not hung out with any prominent musicians.

          I would tend to think that if you wear beautiful, interesting clothing, it is easier to make beautiful, interesting music, that the clothing, the image of yourself in your mind, stimulates your mind, and also influences other people where they are inclined to give you more, share more with you, help you more. Or, if you look excited and exciting, you feel excited. But you disagree, you believe a person could make the most exciting music in the most ordinary clothing?

          My wardrobe tends toward comfort rather than great beauty. Lately I am trying to make my image more exciting by each day wearing a badge, in years I have acquired some badges from different travels and experiences that I can pin to my shirt.

          Well, the bathrobe what if people came to see you unexpectedly and you were in your underwear, you would not throw on the bathrobe to host them?
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    Nov 8 2013: Hitchhike the galaxy. I must remember my towel...
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      Nov 9 2013: Go to a party on Venus?

      Well, I liked the efficiency in my case. For a twenty-minute trip to the grocery, I would have had to make two complete changes, into my clothes to go, and back to my pajamas upon return. All it took was a willingness to be a little different, but you know, Linda, I kind of like doing something out of the ordinary, it gets you out of the rut of doing everything the same old way.
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    Gord G

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    Dec 2 2013: "One morning I shot an elephant in my pyjamas. How he got in in my pyjamas I don't know." (- Groucho)
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      Dec 4 2013: Well, Gord, when I say I go to market in my pajamas, I don't mean the market is in my pajamas, I mean I am in my pajamas. Just to be clear.

      Are you a pajama man? By which I mean either like pajamas or defiantly keep them on under circumstances most people would not.
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    Nov 27 2013: If Lori de wet is checking this conversation, Lori, I got a notification that you responded, but possibly TED glitched and did not put it up here. Respond again if you please.
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    Nov 25 2013: This morning, I am in my pajamas and bathrobe and also have a blanket around my shoulders, because it is 7 degrees here this morning. Even though the wood stove is well stoked, it is chilly. As the sun rises, I see the lovely patterns of frost and ice crystals that have formed on all the windows, and marvel again at the beauty of nature:>)

    As the earth has moved to allow the sun to shine on us here, the temperature has risen a couple degrees, and I am grateful for the sun, because the temp. in the greenhouse, which is attached to the house, was hovering around 35F degrees....the brink of disaster for plants out there. So, I was scurrying around in my PJs and robe getting the stoves stoked to provide a little more heat for the plants.....and myself:>)
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      Nov 25 2013: That's one thing I wonder about, Colleen, people say they wrap a blanket around their shoulders, but they mean they drape it around their shoulders, but mostly it is warming their back right, if it is falling on their back their head and neck would prevent it from being pulled down their front also, so isn't the front of you cold?

      I like how people on this convo have pointed out the more "ordinary" things they do in their pajamas and bathrobe, I was only thinking of unusual things when I started it but it's good to broaden the range to include all the different activities.

      It's funny, I suppose one could start a convo about the unusual things you do with anything, for example, what unusual things do you do with your computer, what unusual things do you do with your chair, and so on, and so on.

      Now this wood stove you buy wood for, or chop it? You have to get up every now and then and stoke it? Was your house not built with an automatic system, in the pictures it did not look that old.
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        Nov 25 2013: Right Greg...drape it around the shoulders, and the ends fall to the front of the body, covering most of the upper part of the body. What I am talking about, is actually a bulky knitted blanket/shawl that someone gave me. I keep it on the chair which I use when on the computer, because it is often chilly in the house in the winter early mornings.

        Stoking the stoves may be unusual to one person, and not to another....depending on where we live and the lifestyle we choose.

        The wood for the wood stoves is given to me, for which I am very grateful. I usually just have to haul it and put it in the cellar. The house I live in was built around 1850, and when we restored it 35 years ago, we installed a central heating system that uses wood or oil. If it gets cold enough in the house (depending on where I set the thermostat), the oil will pop on. I prefer to use wood as much as possible, but when it is really cold, as it was this morning, I pop the oil on for a few minutes while the stoves (wood burning kitchen cook stove and parlor stove) are getting warmed up. I was concerned about the plants this morning. I can always put on another layer of cloths, but there is no protection for the plants.

        Temperature is actually dropping again now.....down to 4F. I heard on the news/weather that a lot of states are getting unseasonable cold weather.
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          Nov 25 2013: Just cause I'm kind of interested in fireplaces, colleen: who gives you this wood? Why do they do it? Have they had to chop it, so why would they give it to you for free if they had to go to the effort to chop it? Someone helps you haul it?

          I actually fell asleep in my clothes last night, which makes life a little easier when one rises, but perhaps wrinkles them up a bit?
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        Nov 25 2013: Friends and brothers give me wood Greg. Why? Because they apparently want to! I watch my neighbor's house and take care of their cat when they are traveling, so the wood is partially a gift in exchange for that. Perhaps others give for the same reason....I help them with things. My brothers have some wooded land, and when trees come down, they give me the wood. I have helped take care of them when they are ill. When we had a huge storm here a couple years ago, some trees came down in a friend's development, so he gave me the wood. I helped with his wife when she was challenged with illness. I get chunks of wood free from a furniture factory nearby, and from a woodworking school in this area. Trees on my property are sometimes cut back, and the wood goes in the cellar to burn in the get the picture? It's a matter of people helping people and living in harmony. Sometimes I get help hauling it....sometimes I do it vehicle is a ford ranger truck, which also serves to haul garden "stuff", bike, kayak, serves me and my lifestyle very well.:>)
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          Nov 26 2013: oh, thanks, as I say, I love to get a picture of the life of the people I talk to. For example, when I talk to a customer service person on an 800 number, I usually ask them where they are physically located, because it gives me a little better picture of who they are. I suppose my brother gives me things, too, old clothes and cameras. Why? Possibly because I have no pride, I'll take anything.

          As I walk around Glendale, I often find discarded clothes that, if they fit me, I keep, if not, I donate to charity. Gotten for myself to keep about 20 shirts, different jackets and hoodies, a pair of athletic shorts this way. Once in a while I'll snag a piece of partially uneaten food, I break off the part where the other person's mouth has bitten and then eat the rest. But I draw the line at going through the trash for food. Although I used to walk through the alleys with my friend who was a "dumpster diver," he went through the trash for cans and bottles he could recycle for money, sometimes he would find unopened cans of vegetables he would take home and eat.
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        Nov 27 2013: It is fun to connect with people Greg....I also enjoy it:>)

        You pick up and eat discarded food on the street Greg? That is as dangerous as eating grass that you pick on the side of the road. I thought you drank only milk for nourishment?
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          Nov 27 2013: You're right, Colleen. Which is more satisfying, listening to other people talk, or talking yourself?

          Well, extremely small amounts of food. Most people deposit their food in a trash can, and I draw the line at going through the trash. Or food in the gutter has been run over by cars, that's no good. But every once in a while, something is undamaged and fairly clean, yes, it brings a little variety to my life, also, it feels humble, like I'm not too good to eat after someone else. I somewhat like the feeling of being feral, scavenging.
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        Nov 28 2013: The most satisfying for me Greg, is a conversation that flows, with both or all participants contributing:>)
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          Nov 30 2013: true, but how important is it to you to rank things, Colleen? I often try to decide in my mind if I preferred, or currently prefer, one experience to another, or one thing to another. On the one hand, it seems like a good exercise for the mind and emotions. On the other hand, maybe it is unnecessary?

          Lately I have been listening better to other people, I think thanks to the TED convo. At the moment, anyway, listening more makes for a better balance in conversation.
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        Nov 30 2013: Hi Greg,
        It is not usually very important to me to rank things at all, and in fact, I do not like labels, because I believe labels are limiting. Once we have ranked or labeled something, that becomes our reality, and we sometimes stop exploring. I am curious, and enjoy exploration, and ranking/labeling simply interferes with the joyful process of exploring with curiosity.

        I tend to "feel" preferences more than "think" about them, although I do use the "thinking" ability when needed. Since I am living in the moment, I consider possibilities in the moment. Deciding if I prefer one experience to another, for example, happens ONLY when there is a possibility of two different activities at the same time.....invitations to two different events for example. I listen to my heart and "feel" which one might be more desirable at that time. I enjoy whatever I am doing in the moment, so once the decision is made, that is where my attention goes. I cannot think of any one experience I have preferred, or prefer in the present, over what I am doing here and now.

        I believe that whatever exploration in yourself feels beneficial to you, is helpful in the process of "knowing thyself".

        Personally, I do not feel it necessary for myself to rank or label experiences because I love being fully present in the moment:>)

        BTW - Since we were talking about cold weather earlier in this thread, it is 0 degrees here this morning, and I'm in pajamas & bathrobe, double socks and furry slippers, with my wonderful blanket shawl around the upper body for extra warmth. A fire is started in the kitchen stove, and I could pop up the thermostat, but that's no fun!!! LOL! It is just starting to brighten up outside, and it looks relatively clear, so we may have sun to help with the warming up process soon:>)
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          Nov 30 2013: well, I can rank something and still explore, for example, I can say the Velvet Underground is my favorite rock band so far in life, but still go on exploring different bands, familiar and unfamiliar. I could certainly change my ranking, not that I'm listening primarily concerned with ranking, I'm listening for enjoyment, but secondarily I tend to rank, I might change my mind and say X is my favorite band. (X really is a band, have you heard of them?) I'm not strongly advocating ranking to you, Colleen, if you're happy without it that's fine. But ranking doesn't necessarily pigeonhole something, I give myself permission to change my mind and say Velvet Underground is my least favorite band.

          I don't follow the second paragraph, you could rank as much with your heart as with your mind?

          So if I ask you if you prefer talking or listening, you would find it hard to rank one higher than the other? Personally, I probably prefer talking, but I like asking questions when I talk, which is interactive, not pure talking.

          Does it seem true that we are constantly ranking in a sense when we make a choice, although it's a temporary ranking. If you want soup for dinner, and you go to the cupboard and you have a can of tomato and a can of clam chowder, you will have to rank them, at least temporarily?

          In a way your life in the morning sounds a little lonely, Colleen, maybe you need a man? Yes, I fell asleep in my clothes again, so I am in jeans, T-shirt, and bathrobe. My energy level is low, I seem to have been sleeping less, which is a good thing because I do more but don't have energy to change into pj's. With all you do, how do you have the energy to change into pj's at night? Ever fall asleep in your clothes?
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        Dec 1 2013: Of course can do whatever you choose....changing our mind about something is always a possibility:>)

        No, I don't "rank" either with my heart (intuition/instinct) or with the mind (logic/reason) my perception.

        Talking and listening are both important parts of the communication process, and I like them equally as well.

        To me, making a choice is different than ranking something, although a choice could be considered a temporary ranking if one want's to perceive it in that way.

        I'm not sure how you got the idea that my life sounds lonely in the morning, and I do not perceive my life to be lonely at any time of the day or night.....I am content with my life:>)

        I don't ever feel too tired to change my cloths Greg. You have mentioned several times in different conversations that you are often tired and low on energy. Are you certain that your milk diet provides enough nutrients for the body?
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          Dec 4 2013: Did you never rank, Colleen? Is it something you've trained yourself not to do? How did you do it? But you could see some value in ranking?

          Well, the best I can say at this point is it's just a feeling, and it may very well be wrong. Someone looking at me from the outside might think I am lonely, and yet I rarely feel lonely.
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        Dec 4 2013: Greg,
        Your first question about ranking is...
        " how important is it to you to rank things, Colleen? I often try to decide in my mind if I preferred, or currently prefer, one experience to another, or one thing to another. On the one hand, it seems like a good exercise for the mind and emotions. On the other hand, maybe it is unnecessary?"

        I addressed your question in the context you presented it. I do, at times prioritize, organize and arrange things in my life. I do not classify, rate, grade or pigeonhole things in my life. All of these are parts of the definition for "rank".

        I am glad that you rarely feel lonely Greg:>)
  • Nov 18 2013: i meant how do you live off of milk
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      Nov 19 2013: well, if I drink two gallons of skim milk a day, that is about 2400 calories, I think a man my size is recommended to get maybe 2000 calories a day, or a little more, so you can see I'm pretty close to the recommended amount. It's pretty easy to live off skim milk because my eyes hurt if I eat solid food, whereas they feel okay when I drink skim milk.

      As I was living on milk, I realized that of all the different size milk containers, the gallon container is shaped most like a breast, full and round at the bottom and tapering to something like a nipple at the top. So I started only drinking from gallon containers. This means I drink in the morning, then I don't drink during the day when I go out because I don't want to carry a gallon container around, then I drink again in the evening when I get home. I like it, it kind of resembles the times that cows are naturally milked on, they are naturally milked once in the morning and once at night.

      Why are you asking, Jasmine, are you interested in diet?
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        Nov 23 2013: Did you ever check your cholesterol ?
        Skim milk contains 2 mg of cholesterol per fl oz (depending on the milk it could be higher)
        2 gallons are 256 fl oz which means 512 mg of cholesterol.
        RDA for cholesterol is 200 mg.
        Another question that arises is where you get Vit. C from ? milk doesn't contain it and the body can't produce it (unlike dogs who can). Lack of Vit. C leads to scurvy. So how do you handle that ?
        There are many other things you need in a diet which are not present in milk.
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          Nov 23 2013: Harald, here is link to the "Nutrition Facts" label that you will see on all skim milk in the U.S.: You can see that one serving, eight ounces, provides 1% of RDA of cholesterol, thus I believe two gallons would be about 32% of cholesterol RDA. One serving provides 4% of vitamin C, therefore two gallons would be 128% of RDA. I do drink a little pure cream here and there, so I do get more cholesterol. And I actually eat some grass here and there, when I am out walking I will occasionally bend over and tear off some grass and eat it. But it may be that this diet is lacking certain nutrients. I have found, however, that for me I feel a great deal better than when I eat a solid food diet that has all the nutrients, I think partially it is the form of this diet, liquid, I believe your body breaks up solid food by chewing and digesting it, but it is never as broken up as milk and hence clogs and irritates your cells as it travels about your body. Possibly there is something unique about the particular mix of nutrients in milk that is positive as well. I know that when I eat solid food my eyes start to hurt, and when I return to this diet they feel good again. On my yearly physical I came in normal on all 80 blood tests, very rare and hard to do, if you give me a fax number I will fax you a copy of the results to prove my statement. At this point I hesitate to advocate this diet to anyone else as it has not been approved by the nutrition authorities, but I can say that I do well on it, and I don't think my body is very different from other people's.
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        Nov 23 2013: Greg, if you drink this particular brand of milk then you seem to be fine because it's enriched with Vit.C and also cholesterol is lower than in other brands of skim milk.
        Still, you might still lack other micro nutrients. At least I'd recommend you regularly check your blood. No need to fax me your blood test. If you say it's ok I believe
        In general, these kinds of diets are not considered healthy, but hey, if it works for you and you are healthy then everything is fine.
        I also read once about a guy who only eats burgers from McDonalds, day in day out. There even was a photo of the guy and he actually looked healthy. Again, not a diet I would recommend though.
        At the very least I would find such diets based on a single food stuff boring, but then again, everybody is different ;-) Anyway, while you enjoy your glass of milk, I have a glass of red wine.
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          Nov 24 2013: Well, I'm not sure, Harald, on the container it says enriched with Vitamin A and Vitamin D, I think it might naturally have a little Vitamin C.

          Well, I might lack micronutrients, Harald, but I feel better and perform better on this diet than any other I've tried, including ones where I think I got all the recommended micronutrients. I have heard that certain of the recommended nutrients are not as important as others. I would think protein is the most important, and milk has protein to an excellent degree. Have you seen where I say on this diet I very comfortably and easily maintain at 165 pounds, which is the middle of normal on the BMI for my height, six feet two inches.

          Well, although I respect nutritionists and their guidelines, I do tend to think that the body gives a wider latitude than the "rules" nutritionists lay down. So it is conceivable to me someone might be somewhat healthy on burgers. However, I do think my particular "monodiet" (do you know this term?) is the healthiest of all, and in fact a Ph.D. in Nutrition agreed with me, she said that if I was going to choose to live on one food, milk would be the best. But I'll say to you again, Harald, part of the virtue of this diet is its liquid nature, I do believe that our body cannot break up solid food as thoroughly as milk and thus the solid food clogs and irritates our cells as it moves about our body. I will give you a link to an interview with me about this diet that fills it in a little better, although not as completely as I would like. I would have found this diet boring before I tried it, but it's surprisingly pleasant. Milk is a delicious taste, I would expect it is designed by nature and evolution to taste as good as possible for the infant's enjoyment. It's also nice not to have to do kitchen cleanup, or carry garbage to the trash.
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          Nov 24 2013: Harald, here is the link: James edited the interview a bit, what happened is that the optometrist made me a pair of glasses that were the right prescription but they also strained my eyes so that I had to use dry eyes drops frequently even though I didn't have dry eye in order to wear the glasses. This was inconvenient, and I was also afraid the dry eye drops would stop working. Yet on a solid food diet if I didn't wear glasses, my eyes hurt. However, on this milk diet I can go without glasses, or drops, and my eyes feel okay. But if I return to solid food, my eyes hurt again.

          The thing I don't like about this interview is I didn't get to say that I think this diet would help with any disease, for any person, for the same reason it helped my eyes: it helps with weight loss, and milk is easier to process and use than solid food. I am trying to get the medical establishment interested in testing my theory, and have had extensive correspondence with NIH about it, NIH being the largest government health research center in the U.S. NIH is saying to me, well, we might test the diet and it might help someone with cancer, but we're afraid the diet will hurt the person in other ways because it lacks certain nutrients. I have written back and said, well, I've been on the diet for five years, and it hasn't hurt me, and I don't think my body is very different from other people's. I am waiting to see what they say.
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        Nov 25 2013: Most important thing is this milk diet works for you. As long as you regularly do check ups and everything is fine, then just go on doing it, if that is what you like. Still, you might be a special case and I wouldn't want to recommend this diet to the general public.
        As to your eyes, most certainly it's not a question of solid food vs. milk. Most like something very specific causes your eye problems and that something just happened to be in one of the solid food you consumed while not present in milk. Perhaps you could live off beer and have no eye problem either (not recommending a beer diet either).
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          Nov 26 2013: Thank you, Harald. I really don't think I am a special case, I believe this diet would be good for anybody. Even when I look at your profile photo, I can tell you have a little excess weight, if you were on this diet (actually, it is a lifestyle) you would be leaner and perform better. However, I do believe people with some sort of health problem would be more tuned in to the benefits of this diet because they would see the pain reduction. How is your health, do you have any aches and pains?

          With my eyes it certainly is solid food vs. milk. I can eat the healthiest solid food menu, or any solid food menu, and it will make my eyes hurt. As I said before, I believe the body cannot break up solid food as thoroughly as milk and therefore solid food clogs and irritates the cells as it travels around the body. But it would be hard for you or anyone to understand this just by trying to imagine it, I think to really realize it you would have to have an experience something like my own, where you watched a milk diet alleviate your pain. As to living on other liquids, it doesn't seem to work, they bother my eyes somewhat too. So it might be a question also of what is in the milk, or maybe there is something different about the way the mother's body liquifies food vs. food that has been liquified in a blender machine. I'm afraid my knowledge is insufficient here.

          I'm not strongly advocating you switch to this diet. The most important thing is to be happy, you seem happy with what you are currently doing, correct? But I believe there are some people who have pain in their life, unhappiness, who will benefit from this diet.
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        Nov 26 2013: lol, must be a bad photo if I look over weight on it. Will try to get a better one.
        My health is perfect, but then, I live a healthy life. Lots of exercise, healthy eating, my daily glass (or 2) of wine, etc.
        Actually, talking about liquid diets, if I'd switch to one it would probably be a wine based one.
  • Nov 18 2013: greg, why do you drink milk? lol
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      Nov 18 2013: thanks for asking, Jasmine. Here is an interview that was done with me about it:

      I actually have the impression that this diet would help with many diseases for the same reasons it helped with my eye discomfort, that when you eat solid food you chew and digest it but it never gets as broken up as milk and thus irritates and clogs your cells as it travels around your body. I am trying to get the medical establishment interested in testing this idea. I do want to stress that so far it is not a proven idea.
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    Nov 17 2013: Is that your face Greg? You look good, man ;)
    I like your knack of asking honest questions with a funny twist. But for this one I do not hope to be as honest to let you know what do I do in pajamas and bathrobe. Not in a public forum.
    Jokes apart, I gave corporate presentation (fully dressed in business suit) with slippers on my feet. I have also drove out with my tee worn inside out. But difference is that you are suggesting to go out in bathrobes or pajamas as a matter of convenience, aren't you.
    Good idea but I shall want designer pajamas and fashion bathrobes then. You won't believe how silly my pajamas look.
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      Nov 17 2013: yes, all seven feet and 500 pounds of me;)
      now, pabitra, you know the more honest you are, the more you get coming back.
      Now how did the slippers work, because when you rose to walk from your chair to the podium, everyone saw the slippers?
      yes, I'm saying that there might be a situation where you generally would like to stay in your pajamas, but you need to go outside for one small thing, so why not save yourself some effort and just stay in them? Probably this principle applies in other kinds of situations not related to pj's, for example, have you ever come some place where you have to get into line to do something, and without thinking you get into the longest line, this has happened to me at the bank, but then I notice there was a shorter line I could have gotten into that was more specific to my business.
      Here in the States it's a bit of a fashion in the hiphop or rap music community to wear things inside out so the label shows. It shows creativity to do things differently than before, I think.
      Your pajamas look silly, or just average? If you wait until you get designer and fashion, you may never take advantage of this idea, yeah? But perhaps you must make a judgement as to whether your community would accept this, in my case I made a judgement that mine would (there is a lot of variety of image in the States and unusual images), and I believe my judgement is correct. But what is the tolerance for unusual behavior where you live?
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        Nov 17 2013: Reg. slippers: I got the MC lying for me. She said I had a medical condition making me unable to wear shoes. That didn't suppress a few giggles, mostly from ladies. Fact was, I worked till 3 am that day to make the presentation ready and the program started at 8 am. I slept, showered, put on the regulation suit swearing under the breath and when I was almost half way to office noticed slippers on my feet.

        I was joking about designer and fashion :) But my pajamas do look silly in their stripes and checks. However, mine is a temperate country and 10 months in a year I wear boxer shorts in home with bare upper body. It will be too much for me to go to buy a pack of ciggy in that. Even in India!

        India is vastly different in that matter from the US, I guess. The tolerance for unusual behavior is almost infinite here. So much so, sometimes such unusual-ness is not noticed. In the neighborhood and during night people visit shops, chemists or walk dogs in all sorts of attire. I have seen ladies coming down in a haste in housecoats and gentlemen in pajamas, shorts or lungis. No big deal really.
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          Nov 18 2013: Well, that was good quick thinking to lie about medical condition, Pab. But really, what if you had just been honest, just said you hadn't gotten much sleep and in a bit of a haze put on your slippers? Perhaps the audience would not have condemned you?

          Now you were swearing about putting on the suit? So you don't like your work clothes? This doesn't seem like a good sign.

          Well, it's not a crime to look silly once in a while. If all you ever look is distinguished, it might be quite refreshing mentally to look silly occasionally, and refreshing mentally to the people around you. But you know best, I suppose there are many factors in everything we do, we balance all kinds of needs and desires in each choice.

          Thanks for sharing about India. Of course it's hard for me to say, not having visited. Have you visited United States, how would you compare the two?
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        Nov 18 2013: I was being honest to the necessity of my job, Greg. The audience neither looked nor meant to take me any kindly had I told the truth.
        I hate business suits Greg. In most part my work does not require me to wear formal - it's only those dreaded presentations. It's silly to wear suits and neck-tie in Indian weather. And business suits have no character at all.
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          Nov 18 2013: if you had told it with humor, might they have taken kindly, Pabitra? I have not given many presentations corporate, but I believe in America if you told this story with humor, the audience would be on your side. You might have to add that you were up to 3 AM working, apologize in a humorous way for not having prepared earlier, but I think the audience would be okay here.

          I am sorry you hate the suits, Pabitra, do your fellows agree that they are too hot, perhaps you should ask what they think, if enough people agree perhaps the custom will change.

          As for character, well, of course, you get to choose color and cut of suit, color and cut of shirt, color and pattern of tie, some wear handkerchief. You could perhaps attach a lapel pin, our American presidents are famous for always wearing a little American flag pin on the lapel of their suit.
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    Nov 17 2013: Greg,

    This post is ironic. I was at the grocery store (Von's) earlier tonight and wasn't the only one in my PJs. Sometimes you just feel like relaxing and if you are going to come back home in 30 minutes, what's the big deal? It's about 50 degrees out right now and PJs are kind of cozy.

    I think this is okay if nothing is exposed and your hygiene is kept up. Otherwise, how would wearing a dirty pair of jeans and t-shirt, that you may have been sweating in all day, be "okay"?
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      Nov 17 2013: Now you live in El Cajon, California? Now is it adventurous for you to market in your pj's, or is it old hat? Now if you say old hat, I would like to know what the culture is in El Cajon, because most of the places I've been in California, it would be quite different and somewhat adventurous, is that your experience as well?

      Are you in the military, judging by your profile photo? But if one of your superior officers saw you at the market in your pj's, he or she would scold you?

      Do you consider yourself adventurous? What do you do that makes you so?