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Blaise Jabo

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could science be a Trojan horse to lives?

Science have changed and contributed dramatically our life, from how we live with each other, multiply, acquire knowledge, combat diseases, self protect etc.. but could it be doing more harm than we know? more of being friendly and useful yet destroying some of our core values as humans?

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    Oct 28 2013: Hello Blaise,

    It's not science per se which is the problem, it's science as the dominant world-religion that's the problem. The central belief and dogma of this religion is that the world is a machine to be fixed, as are people machines to be fixed, and that scientists are clever enough to fix and improve it/us.
    It's been growing as the dominant religion since the time of Francis Bacon (1561-1626) who was a key advocate of the scientific method, and its use to "subdue the earth" for the good of humankind.

    Then with Descartes (1596-1650) the sense of soul and of the sacred were stripped out of the earth, stripped out of education, and stripped out of money-as-a-means leaving us with raw greed as the main driver.
    With no sense of the sacred there can be no conviction by which we can place limits and say an occasional "no". eg: no more devastating the rain-forest, no more over-fishing.

    But I'm interested to know what you think are "our core values as humans" (as Nadav also asked)?
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      Oct 28 2013: According to Wikipedia, 78% of the world's population identify with one of the five most common religions. Christianity is the most common religion worldwide, accounting for 33% of the world's population. Between Christianity, Hinduism, and Islam, you account for 66% of the world's population.

      From these data, I cannot understand the claim of science as the "dominant world religion," unless you mean that over 33% of the world's population believes science has some value as a way of understand our world. That could well be. Of course those who value science will be of any faith or none.
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        Oct 29 2013: Hello Fritzie,
        Thank you for the facts and figures.
        I am coming from what you have written in your second paragraph. ie: saying that science (or rather scientism) is the dominant religion of the world in the form of a "meta-religion" - which I think is what you are saying there as well. In the last 400 years it grown to become the dominant way of thinking and acting in the material world.

        Essentially science is the religion of materialism, treating the planet, animals, plants, mineral, and humans in a mechanistic way, without soul.
        This is bound to be the case when its central tenet is "if we can't measure it, it's does not exist and/or it's not important". It can but promote the current attitudes that sanction continuing destruction of the world's ecological systems. And in that sense science is a Trojan Horse because its real (destructive) influence goes way beyond (and is in some way hidden by) its initial promise and achievements.

        It has been especially influential on Christianity in terms of things like the 'protestant work ethic' (to bring heaven on earth through subduing the earth via technology). Eastern religions are now also being influenced by, and adapting to, the scientific paradigm.
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          Oct 29 2013: I am surprised you find scientific thinking to be the dominant way of thinking and acting in the world and also that you think the idea is widespread that things that cannot be measured are unimportant.

          Let us consider among all people the importance in their lives of love for the children, which cannot in any scientific sense be measured. Now consider a subset of these people, professional scientists. Do you think they find the love within their families either measurable or unimportant?

          I am not even convinced that reason is the dominant way of thinking and acting. I think thinking and acting involves reason but not only reason and that neuroscience as studied in scholarly and professional circles would probably support that observation. Further, and purely as an anecdotal observation, I find rigorous, reasoned thought to be uncommon compared to superficial thinking.
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        Oct 29 2013: I think it's a question of levels.

        On a personal level, my experience is that people and families act from trust, friendship, love and other non-measurables. We do so because they are values that are important to us. So if you were to interview 7 billion people as individuals, I guess not many would say they act from the scientific paradigm. In that sense I agree that on the level of personal interaction, it is not the dominant driver how people live.

        The question by Blaise was more global in nature.
        And on that larger institutional level what do we see? One thing we see that is of major concern, is the treatment of the planet as an inanimate 'thing" to be exploited. What sort of mind-set leads to that type of action if not the scientific mind-set? (I will shoot myself in the foot at this point by saying that such action is also strongly promoted by the cycle of money-as-debt).

        On the point about reason, I would say that science with its hallowed basis of reason can be used as a cover-up to justify some very unreasonable actions - (actions in truth that stem from fear, greed, jealousy, etc) but appeal to the 'solidness' and 'reliability' of 'science & reason' in their public justification. And how can people argue with science when something is presented to them strongly as an immutable "scientific fact"?
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        Oct 30 2013: Thanks for the link - interesting talk.

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