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Gerald O'brian

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If the cure for mortality is found within your lifetime, would you go for it and become immortal?

On the one hand, we're not made for eternal youth. And one could argue that knowing life is short (or just limited) is what makes it worth living. And perhaps death is a major spiritual part of life, whether you believe in a soul or in a metaphorical one.
On the other hand, how is aging yet not another disease? Dying at age 80 is no more a "natural" death than being eaten alive by a bear or killed by malaria. In fact, "old age" is probably the most unnatural cause of death, statistically. So all that's probably just a cultural habit : diseases are evil but aging is good. Another point is that, well, things have changed. Perhaps our new environment makes it suitable for immortal youths.
And of course, becoming immortal only means that you die when YOU chose to die.

So would you go for the injection or not, and how do you rationalize your decision?

Thanks!

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  • Oct 27 2013: No I would not go for that cure because I have had the privilege to observe a small part of what is behind death. And I like what I have observed. As result I have lost all fear of death. Death is like birth, a passage to a higher state of existence.
    Once you are dead, you know everything you want to know and you can go where you want to go in zero time.
    When my heart was severely damaged by an event, I had to undergo an 8 hour operation. The nurses were astonished: "But you are enjoying yourself here!". Severals days later there was a complication and my heart stopped pumping. Knowing that I had only a few seconds of consciousness left, a made a joke about it. I'm old, but I have a better physical condition than most people older than 20 years. Over 30 years ago I made a date for my century birthday and I'm looking forward to that day.

    Also I have selected a religion that fits my experiences and have become Christian.
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      Oct 28 2013: Hello Jan, agree with you all the way. Swedenborg, from experience, also says that dying is like going from one room to another.

      Talking about death.. you may like this page on Facebook, HeavenandHellSwedenborg.

      Personally I believe we are immortal already. We are our spirit, not our body, and our spirit is immortal.
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        Oct 28 2013: No, you are your brain, that is part of your body, that is playing a persevering trick on you.
        When you are hungry, cold or sick you think, act and react differently then when you are not.
        You are your body.

        Or as Schrodinger said:
        "All the events in space and time within the spatial boundary of a living organism
        can be accounted for by physics and chemistry"

        http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/1611/20120248.full.pdf
        When you have read it, check the references on the bottom, I can recommend it to everyone,
        not only academics.
        • Oct 29 2013: Hi Vincent
          Once upon a time there was in Greece a man named Plato, who was convinced that all wisdom and science could and should be developed by thinking only. He was wrong. Today we develop an idea and the next step is testing if the idea is correct. You have to invent valid tests to convert your opinion into solid proof.
          I have seen solid proof for my opinion that could not have been a persevering trick of my brain.
          Please keep in mind that you may have a problem if you discover after your death that you are wrong. It is your problem, not mine.
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          Oct 29 2013: Dear Vincent, then how come we can detect and monitor anything pertaining to our body, even that we think and feel. THAT we think, not WHAT we think. That we have emotions, but not why.
          What we love cannot be shown on a screen or in a tube because it is on a different level of existence. Those two levels, or realms, are 'connected' by correspondence. You cannot proof to your wife (if you have one) that you love her, except through consistent actions and movements of your body. Just words don't do it.

          It always amazes me how people use their free will without realizing it. Could a lion decide to become a vegetarian? Can a flower turn away from the sun? Come on, become human..
        • Nov 6 2013: Hi Vincent. Most of the documents you refer to contain opinions, which is something else than verifiable facts. A biologists, Ben Hobrink, wrote a book titled "Modern Science in the Bible" that is full of verifiable facts. The Bible contains over 600 rules what to do or not to do. Please read the book and try to explain how the writer, Moses, could have known the medical facts on which these rules are based. Medical facts that were only slowly discovered during the last three centuries.
          Please let me know if you have an explanation.
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        Oct 31 2013: Dear Adriaan and Jan,
        I think that if there is anyone we can explain this to you it is Daniel Dennett, please watch this full explanation:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Nj_rEqkyQ

        On what he mention "Nanolevel / proteinlevel":
        http://www.ted.com/talks/drew_berry_animations_of_unseeable_biology.html
        http://www.molecularmovies.com/showcase/

        If you're hungry for more:
        http://www.youtube.com/user/bigthink/search?query=consciousness

        Accepting that you are an purely reactive, but wondrous machine doesn't make it any less wondrous or worth living for. It is about the journey, not the end.
        Come on, become transhuman ;)

        @"Please keep in mind that you may have a problem if you discover after your death that you are wrong. It is your problem, not mine."
        I know God exists, if you define him properly. You see him in the 'pattern of everything around you'. Such as in the "law of large numbers', probability theory, chaos theory, butterfly effect, central limit theorem. God is good to have if you are grateful, but do not know who to thank. Or if you are angry or sad, for example, by injustice and suffering, but you do not know who to blame. To the question 'how come that' is always a scientific answer -> see theories -> Wikipedia (!).
        You would be judged on what you do for the world, not on what you claim and not for an afterlife. That is a story humans made up (from the church).
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          Nov 1 2013: Hi Vince, Mr. Dennett only compares a believe in a spiritual environment with the "Indian, climbing a rope" trick. There is no explanation whatsoever. He is only ridiculing a belief beyond the body. Nothing else, including his constant referral to magic.

          I really enjoyed your links to the scientific animations of the cellular activities and molecules and the workings and looks of our DNA double-helix environment. One thing that I cannot pull myself away from is that when these miracles are seen, how can anyone think these were started in a big bang of nothing.. by accident.. with no purpose at all.
          You may have seen that my favourite talk is about how a fetus starts and develops in a womb. And the same idea comes to mind.. from nothing? by accident?
          Also, do any of the cells or particles decide how we are going to react when someone cuts us off in traffic??

          After what you said above, is this how you really think?
          --"I know God exists, if you define him properly."--
          If so, I'm really appreciative because there is someone who had a 29 year long visit in the spiritual realm our spirit is in now, and wrote things down..
          My major point is that we already ARE immortal because we are not our body. We do not have to take any shots or become vegetarian :) to become immortal.

          The following link explains who and what God is and that immortality is because we are in His image and likeness. The last is also the reason for our consciousness and freewill. See what you think,
          http://www.swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/DLW_port-web.pdf
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        Nov 4 2013: Thanks a lot for your comments and sharing that text!
        Really appreciate it.

        I think it is a beatifull text and I have a hard time reflecting upon it.
        But I will try..
        I have real difficulty with the text in [69] 'Divinity fills all space in the universe nonspatially'. You can be a materialist and yet see the beauty of 'all that is' and the interconnectivity of everything. Materialism is not a bad view upon the world and has room for a God, such as mentioned in my definition. It is how you act upon the world that is important, not of how you think or what the church makes up with nice words.
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          Nov 5 2013: This can indeed be difficult to see, yes. But it is 'explaining that God is everywhere, causing reality and material to 'connect' and remain together. Just as metal is really a cloud of particles held together through energy.

          Another way of putting this is to say, the spiritual God is in space without being limited/attached to space. As Rob Bell says, God is not an old man with a long beard sitting on a throne on a cloud. :)

          Same as also saying God is in time, apart from time. He is in the past, present and future.

          But totally agree with what you're saying. This material existence is important, very important because without it we could not start a life, learn and change our life.

          However, I'm sure that, just like 99% of those that had a NDE and did not want to come back to this world, I see no advantage in becoming immortal and 'having to stay' on this planet to eternity. That would keep us "attached' to time and space, and the limits of the body.
          "How you act upon the world that is important" Precisely!! thanks Vincent.

          BTW the link above is to the book DLW (about God) and if you just change those 3 letters to DP you get the book about us.
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        Nov 5 2013: Thanks a lot, really interesting stuff.

        "If we sensed and felt the working of divine providence, we
        would not act freely and rationally, and nothing would seem
        to be really ours. The same would hold true if we knew what
        was going to happen"

        I still keep on to my conviction that we are reactive machines and don't have much (say none) free will at all.
        It is just a persistent illusion, because you live in the moment.
        Again, this doesn't make the journey any less worth it at all or mean that you can go crazy upon the world, because you would have no free will. The non free thought and your observations in the environment makes your actions I would argue.
        Nothing really seems to be ours really to me, everything is interconnected and dependent on coincidences. The butterfly effect is everywhere. And your decisions are also dependent on what you have eaten, how you are feeling and who you meet, hear and see in life, what time you go to bed, to work etc. etc.
        I'm sure we will all acknowledge all that some day.
        Free will is overrated.

        I sensed and felt the working of divine providence ^^ Maybe.. :P
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          Nov 5 2013: "And your decisions are also dependent on what you have eaten, how you are feeling and who you meet, hear and see in life, what time you go to bed, to work etc. etc."

          I would rather say our decisions 'are also influenced by what we've eaten, how well we slept etc.' because we do have the spiritual freedom to think "I had a lousy night and feel horrible, but I want to be nice to my partner or child or pet, because it is not their fault, and I love them." We have no control over what happens to us, but we do have the freedom to decide how to react. We do have the option to decide how much we let our feelings determine our reactions.

          I think every post on TED is started, and worded, the way that person chooses to do it, on the subject he/she chooses to respond to.
          Even the very question at the top assumes we have a choice: "Would you go for it and become immortal?"
          So you managed to download Divine Providence? Great to talk with you!

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