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Tom Britton

Director, Teacher, Language School

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To what extent are Americans worried about the fact that the Federal banking system is a private institution?

Is the privatisation of the Federal bank (to 10 stake holders) part of the American capitalist dream of freedom? To what extent does the general American public attribute the national debts of the U.S to abuses by the Federal bank? Is it abuse at all or is it in fact a justifiable part of American freedom? Do Americans think that it is, for any reason at all, justifiable to put a debt on every piece of currency that enters circulation? If the Federal bank was not a private institution, what would happen to America?

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Closing Statement from Tom Britton

Thanks to everyone for your input. I look forward to seeing how far the central bankers will go before the majority of the general public starts realising what is going. I suspect all of us lot will be long gone by then, if it ever happens.

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  • Oct 18 2013: I find this discussion interesting. In 1832, Andrew Jackson vetoed the bill to extend the charter of 2nd Bank of the US. In his message why he vetoed the bill, he listed the following reasons:
    It concentrated the nation's financial strength in a single institution,
    It exposed the government to control by foreign interests,
    It served mainly to make the rich richer,
    It exercised too much control over members of Congress,
    It favored northeastern states over southern and western states,
    Banks are controlled by a few select families.
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    Oct 21 2013: Hi Tom,

    I like Noam Chomsky's take on the current debt crisis and the role of the fed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhXgKmar5mk
    (the full lecture is worth watching if you don't mind the repetitive nature of Chomsky's work.)

    My own opinion is that: the issuer of currency is clearly the master of those who subsequently use it.
    So the question is - who controls those 10 stake-holders?
    The US federal government is not to be dismissed as irrelevant here.

    The deeper question is about currency itself. My opinion is that currency has only value to a community in transition - and only when that transition is from a setback to re-establishment of a tenable position.
    After the communities equilibrium is achieved, the retention of money propels the community to over-population and collapse.
    The default economy of humans appears to be a gift culture - it operates on prestige earned by the giver. A monetary economy grants prestige to the greatest hoarder - the taker.
    Dmitry Orlov is worth listening to - he has observations about soviet economy that were withheld from the west for a long time. We need to re-learn this to get even close to what's actually going on.
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    Oct 16 2013: Very good points in my opinion. But I don´t ask whether or not the Feds are doing a good job or not, I wonder more whether, just like in the UK or mainland Europe, the whole thing is a bit of a charade. It is supposed to be a Federal bank. Federal meaning that, of course, it is governed by the state. I´m questioning whether it is really governed by the state at all. Doing away with the central banks would, in theory, create a freer market economy. But while we´ve got it, leaving it in the hands of stake holders seems like a bizarre concept. Inflation is partly due to the fact that the debt is ever increasing. Why do we have this debt? Why is the money LENT to the population?
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      Oct 17 2013: Thanks Tom for all your comments.
      And precisely, I've never really figured why (in the U.K) the government has to borrow money from the banks, and pay interest on it. They're the government for goodness sake. (Well, unfortunately no longer, their governance is dictated by the Central Bank and the big banking players, in essence).
      I'm sure you've seen "The Goldsmith's Tale: Money as Debt" on Youtube, Tom; but for anyone who hasn't - please watch it.
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    Oct 16 2013: Sadly the (planned, and scripted) dulling of American education, and the dumbing down of American media has done it's work. The average American has no clue what the federal reserve is, or what it does. They have little, or no understanding of currency manipulation, monetary policy, deficits, debt, debt limits, defaults, default swaps, quantitative easing, bonds. They are so totally ignorant that they don't really care anymore to learn. The average American ,or citizen of many other nations for that matter doesn't give a dam about it. They are consumed with consuming, Iphones, World of Warcraft, NFL scores, soccer stats, Tea bagging, dancing with the stars etc. The plaintiff cry we always hear is, "those bastards when are ( "THEY" ) going to fix things" ? The God dam government ! It's the government ! That's the government's problem. Who the hell do these poor dumb bastards think the government is? It's like the meth addict that thought he could just try it once as an experiment, get an idea of how it feels, and never worry about getting hooked. Next thing you know their teeth are falling out, and they're living on a heating grate in a cardboard box. Therefore it's up to the extraordinary scholarly people with a social conscience and an understanding of (governance, and monetary policy) to make the case and go to war for the rest in mutual self interest. In my view the international banking system while providing the capital to finance the worlds economies is at the same time the biggest drag on economic dynamism. The entire system has become so hierarchical , so proprietary, so secretive, so utterly corrupt, that they must be considered, for all intents and purposes a group of terrorist organizations seeking to dominate sovereign governments. Tey're skimming every single dollar, drachma, dinar, yen, won, and pound. We are already far far down the road to international criminal manipulation, and oligarchic fascist totalitarian world government. We are at war.
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    Oct 15 2013: Extremely concerned by a system that was meant to keep us enslaved to it. Extrememly concerned by the fact that the powers that be will sacrifice the financial security of millions to appease those who are in a position of power and control over our entire monetary system. Extrememly concerned that the possiblity of doing something about it has dwindled with each generation to almost non-existent. Extrememly concerned that an individual who speaks out about it and tried to influence a mass movement against it could find themselves myteriously taken out of the equation and the true version of events covered up by the power hitters in our gov. The people we elect to represent us will sell us out in a heart beat for a chance to be re-elected and to hold onto their already overwhelmingly powerful position of influence. We are nothing more than pieces to be manipulated on a board game to them. And that's what we will continue to be until a game change transfers the power out of their hands and onto individuals with the self control to handle that kind of power and enough moral integrity to do the right thing with it.
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      Oct 15 2013: So, We are still speaking of the Federal Reserve System? Your comment could have been applied to the entire Federal Government. Don't miss understand me, I believe that the Federal Government has become a crony system and needs some serious changes to make it again responsible to the American people.
      But, in a practical matter, if we were to do away with the Central Bank, what would we replace it with, that could be better....

      PS I don't think there are such people that have the moral integrity to handle that kind of power.
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        Oct 15 2013: The economy would be much better off without the FED. If I could change one thing it would be to get rid of the FED. You are ignorant on an important subject, you should read up on it
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          Oct 16 2013: Actually Pat, I have looked the Fed with a critical eye, I just don't see a viable alternative. We do away with it, now what? Look, I am not a fan. I have read a number of alternatives, I can poke a hole in all of them. If I can see the holes, just how bad are they?
          Do you have a way to establish a central bank? I am all ears or on TED, all eyes.
      • Oct 16 2013: Mike Colera,
        You said, "PS I don't think there are such people that have the moral integrity to handle that kind of power."
        Does this mean you think those in power and control have this so-called "moral integrity" to handle the power they now have?
        That is ludicrous to me. They have shown a complete degradation of any moral character of any kind and if you are correct, then this does mean American'ts need to not only replace their system with a just one, but also to get those in power, out of the power, by whatever means necessary.

        You also said, "But, in a practical matter, if we were to do away with the Central Bank, what would we replace it with, that could be better...."
        You mean that is all the critical thinking you are capable of, about 2 seconds worth?
        Well, your points carry no weight in that regard. Best you leave making a new and just system to those Americans who wish, want to, and can think critically in new and profound ways.
        Jacque Fresco has ideas that he has worked on for at least 75 years. No one else has worked on anything such as a re-engineering of society like Fresco has. No one, except those who wish to keep the dying, rotting status quo alive, which when thinks about it, is absurd. It's rotten, it's dying. Why keep it? It's worthless. It is letting down the people, but not those who lack moral integrity to run everything into the ground.
        Is Fresco's work perfect? No but there is nothing else on the horizon except abject failure and horror.
        What will most people say to that? Fresco is a joke, yet they have worked on nothing, and they only will speak in circles with the same old language from the same old tools, all of which have failed.
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          Oct 16 2013: Mr.Chance.
          Someone much smarter then me has said "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" . No, don't get me wrong, there are honest people out there, Smart people who could be well qualified to become public servants... Problem is most of them want no part of government service.
          Yes, I have to admit, I have held my nose as I pulled the election level. I have voted the best of bad choices. But, maybe, I will get better choices in the future... one can only hope.
          I read Fresco's work. Was it Sinclair that wrote about a great place to live... memories fade. But, I find Fresco, Sinclair... Sinclair is a better novelist...
          I see no way that Fresco's theories could ever be viable in the real world..
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        Oct 16 2013: Mike

        You have demonstrated that you are very informed on other threads, don't go myopic on this subject.

        Before 1913 we did not have the FED. Just look at the facts the U.S. economy boomed from the 1870s through 1912 without the FED.

        After the FED there was excessive credit created and the inevitable boom that followed burst and gave us the great depression.

        The FED is NOT part of the Constitution, yet is sold to the complacent citizens as necessary. It is only necessary to those who make a parasitic living by Enslaving the uneducated (Us).

        Go over to the Mises institute for the straight dope on this subject. Or follow .Krisztian's link for the full monty.

        This stuff is life changing.
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          Oct 16 2013: Sorry Pat,
          We got the Fed because of crash and burn of the economy in 1907 while under a free banking period. In fact, there were several bumps in the road during the boom you mentioned.
          Now, it has been said that the establishment of the Fed was the plan of the progressive party to bring the country into their political point of view, I can't confirm this, but I wouldn't be surprised. However, there was a cry across the country for the congress to fix the banking system and this is what we got.
          Hey, I got to call them the way I find them.

          I am familiar with the Mises Institute. I came across them in my readings. I find them a little over the top.
          I would like the federal government address those tasks as defined by the constitution and stop doing things they were not intended. It should reduce the Federal Government by more then half. I would like to repeal the 17th amendment. Restrict the 16th in the taxing of income. I would like to see the presidents cabinet reduced to 7 secretariats. Term limits for congressmen to two terms like the president. I would consider the terms of congressmen and the president to 5 years. I would like for the SCOTUS .to review all the amendments and insure from a legal standpoint that there are no conflicts with the basic constitution. I have found a few that disturb me if they are ever challenged. .
          I am flattered that you find most of my threads informed. You could get a number of challenges on that comment.
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        Oct 16 2013: Mike

        If that is what you see you just are Not looking.

        The difference between the "crash and burn" economy and the FED economy is stark and much worse with the FED and it's meddling.

        There is a ton on this at the Mises org. Since you don't want to look I can't do anything for you.
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          Oct 16 2013: II have read some of the missives of the Mises Org. To sum it up, they do not like the Fed and made a strong case to rid us of it. But, as I have said, I can't see a replacement. We still need a central bank and I don't trust the Treasury to do it.
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        Oct 16 2013: That is simply not true. Do you have anything to corroborate that view?
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        Oct 27 2013: 1. Where exactly is the line drawn between the FED and the Fed Gov?
        2. Those who seek to be in a position of power ought not to be given any...at all...not even a little bit. Those who are best suited to lead will be recognized by those who are already following.
        3. The Conspiracy Theories behind the FED being started are just that...conspiracy theories, however they are compelling and believable which gives great cause for concern.
        4. You find the Mises over the top. Everything about our modern day society is over the top.

        We have a monetary based system as it stands, yes, but who decided that monetary is the only acceptable system?
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          Oct 27 2013: 1. The FED is referring to the Federal Reserve, a central banking organization, et el. established in law ca. 1913. It was established as an independent banking system from the Federal Government. It was to keep the politician's hands off the nation's money supply.
          2. Agree.
          3. I find conspiracy theories questionable. Usually, they are extreme and call for some suspension of belief. Also need many people to be involved. All who must keep the secret. Possible probably, probable not. so much.
          4. Mises Organization. As I understand them, they are or propose an extreme libertarian political philosophy. I am not comfortable with extreme political philosophy. I could be wrong.

          Monetary System. We have a world of over 7 billion people. A monetary system is the only really practical way of exchanging goods and services
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        Oct 27 2013: I know the definitive difference between the FED and the Fed Gov. I was wondering where you personally would draw the line that divides them from a personal perspective.

        Think about the people who are most likely to be involved in a conspiracy theory. These are people who only circulate amongst themselves anyways. The classes are separate and money talks. Not many conspiracy theories are all that questionable, in fact far too many of them are rather enlightening. Finally answering all those nagging questions regarding holes in the story that now seem to be filled.

        Extreme political philosophy is having a FED which borrows $ that can never be repaid. If every single dollar was used to repay our debt to the FED we would still be left with the interest and all the imaginary money that was created with the gentle depression of a few keys on a computer.

        The only reason money is "the only really practical way of exchanging goods and services" is because we haven't been taught that there might be other systems.
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    Oct 15 2013: The FED is not the only national bank which is in private hands, the so called Bank of England is also owned by a hand-fill of individuals and are very secretive about who exactly those individuals are. Once upon a time back in the mid-1800's the FED and the Bank of England did belong to the people and were managed by our respective governments for the greater good of our nations.
    I think that the privatisation of Banks such as the FED and the Bank of England was a determined ploy to ultimately subvert the power of governments which is given to them in trust by the electorate through the ballot. Not sure about the USA, but here in the UK our government is increasingly impotent in the face of the transnationals and the banks - in fact our Chancellor of the Exchequer (the equivalent of your Head of the US Treasury) is actually fighting the EU with British Tax Payer Pounds to ensure that there is no cap to the gargantuan bonuses which bankers are allowed to pay themselves irrespective of whether they have made real or imagined profits for their firms and our economies.
    Not so long ago I revisited the Zeitgeist which explains how a handful of bankers were able to convince our politicians to sell them our National banks and set up the ponzi scheme which masquerades as "the banking system".
    The current system, which was established when our governments sold-us-out it is designed to keep them [the government] and us as individuals in debit, thought I don't think they [politicians] knew or realised this at the time. Essentially if we are in credit the system just doesn't work.
    As to whether the practice is a justifiable method to ensure freedom, I would argue that the reverse is true and that over the past 200 years since this in my view catastrophic event occurred there has been a veneer of freedom, democracy and growth - however like all Ponzi schemes, it's unsustainable. If the FED was not a private institution, equality and real democracy would flourish.
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    Oct 28 2013: I believe most Americans are still under the impression they can not change anything from within. Most American's are worried about themselves and tend to believe success equals wealth for themselves rather than success equals what I have done for the benefit of all. Most don't give a damn about the answer to this question. We follow the same old mouse trails. Law is "correct". "It is what it is."
  • Oct 20 2013: Check your own resources but i used to study the Fed and its origins. My teacher in High School told me the Federal Government has the right to distribute the nations wealth and monetary system. I quickly told her that she was mistaken, the Fed(Reserve Grp) allows the American government to distribute a printed bank note at a set value. John D. Rockefeller and his group of Titans designed the Federal Reserve Banking System in the early 1900's. Jekyll Island is the supposed origin of designing Americas Finance;

    The Du Pont family (english banking and technology billionaires)
    The Rockefellers (immigrant oil and banking)
    The Kennedys (alcohol distribution, and politics)
    The Rotschilds (Richest family in the world out of EU)
    The Astor family is also on the list of millionaire early settlers.
    J.P. Morgan of course

    They seem to be bankers of Britain, US, probably the world. I know the Central Bank idea was opposed by Americans for a very long time and the early Banks were even forced to shut down. These guys are the ones who made the new, unchallenged scheme.

    I wouldn't read into it much however, Du Pont Agriculture Company is a very widespread genetic research and Farming industries in the world. They have production companies in every line of distribution you will ever think of. Rockefeller and Carnegie supplied millions to the government and JP Morgan bailed the US out of bankruptcy. I love the research topic but to be honest, the population of America does not care. They do not know many facts but will insist the wealth of America was found at the end of a rainbow.

    Plus they return a lot of money in the form of Philanthropy and Consulting Services. I think they are now intertwined with the Government 100% I dont get why nobody cares but I do.

    Ron Paul was the only Governor i have seen question the banks directly. He was like whats all this bull shit? it was reported a long time ago on many National Networks but it was immediately forgotten.
    • Gord G 50+

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      Oct 20 2013: "They do not know many facts but will insist the wealth of America was found at the end of a rainbow. "

      Great line.
      • Oct 20 2013: I am glad you think so Gord! Thanks for the the support, keep posting on ted convos. I'd like to hear more from you.
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      Oct 20 2013: The wealthy you have listed are now old money, which means the titans of industry listed are gone and their descendents are living on residuals.The new wealthy.... Gates, Buffet, Dell, The Waltons are well known even in my area, the Butts family and the Pace family are wealthy, but you don't really hear of these "wealthy" in the pejorative "wealthy" oft times described in TED comments. So, who are these undefined wealthy? Often the term bankers are alluded as the mean over reaching wealthy.... OK, let me add more overreaching wealthy that are lining their pockets at the expense of the average Americans....the UAW.... the SEIU.... the AFL-CIO.... Friends and family of high level government officials who start green companies so badly planned that are doomed to failure but recipients of Government aid. Those are the wealthy that are sucking the the life out of the American economy.
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        Oct 21 2013: Well it depends how you define residuals. What would you call 300 trillion in family fortune, left overs? Buffet and Gates are very little fish. I hope you're not paying attention to Forbes.
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    Oct 19 2013: I attempted to get all the names of those who own the fedral reserve and study their histories and what qualified them for rule...it is fact not a squeaky clean bunch and has some families that have been present at this trough for a long time...this in fact borders a concept that only certain genetic lineages are fit for rule..can anyone name your banking systems names?
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    Oct 18 2013: Lets go back to prehistoric days of free living and let the American Government, influencers, rich people, and all the institution like Federal worry of what to do, why we should worry and suffer, its waste of time and energy.

    Just Kidding!! But I really wish we could do so! God bless America.
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    Oct 16 2013: Sadly the U.S.of A is probably the poorest example of anything political other than just how much the democratic process can be corrupted and manipulated by special interests and the self-righteous. The stranglehold the Tea Party has on the Republican Party - the party that abolished slavery and now leads the nation in discriminatory thought - speaks volumes about the nation's decline as a place of intelligent political thought or practice. Add to that the manner in which wealth has suborned the political process in that country and one is left with the perspective that what the average American thinks about their governance or their institutions of governance is irrelevant to those that dominate that governance.
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      Oct 16 2013: So, you won't be voting Republican next November. And why are you so down on wealth? Wealth is a thing. Neither good or bad, just a thing. Or are you saying that there are people that use their wealth in an unacceptable manner. I can understand that. Where you hurt my feelings as an average American is saying that what I think is irrelevant to those who dominate my governance. Maybe, I know they are out there and I am waiting my chance to take out those that are currently dominating my governance.
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    Oct 16 2013: Let's see,
    In our history, we have had a series of Central Banks, we are with our 3rd attempt and intervening periods of time free banking. It would seem that the worse times in the American Economic History were during the periods of having Free Banking.
    I don't see the Department of Treasury acting as the central bank... talk about political influence.
    Although a great idea, I don't see using a hard currency... gold, silver... there just isn't enough to sustain all 300 mil of us.
    We could do away with the Feds and the corresponding national banks and then we are looking at 50 state banking systems and 50 players on every big deal. Scary....
    And I also realized that in the last 50 years the value of our paper currency has depreciated by 90%.
    I have a menu from the restaurant where we had our wedding reception dinner.
    Deflation is not that good and the Fed keeps printing more money in the attempt to increase business expansion and subsequent additional employment, maintaining interest levels and trying to keep the crooks from stealing all the cookies.
    Granted the Fed has not been successful, but who can do better? I can't think of them.
  • Oct 16 2013: Have you ever seen the video entitled "AMERICAN DREAM" on youtube? It's a very interesting explanation and clarification about the FED. You'd better get deep into the story and verify the historical references before confirming everything shown in the video, but I'm quite right if I say that the quotation by Thomas Jefferson reported in the video is true :
    "We must make our choice between economy and liberty or profusion and servitude. I place ecomnomy among the first and most important of republican virtues and public debt is the greatest of the dangers to be feared. It is incombent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the very continet their fathers conquered."
    It is believed that, irrespective of the fact one is an extraordinary scholarly man or not(as somebody has said), contract out our debts is very dangerous, because it means that we are outsourcing our life
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    Oct 16 2013: It is all part of a greater underlying problem which is immorality. All of our institutions reflect the same problem over and over again, greed. We don't just take what we need, we take until it is all gone. We constantly upset the balance of nature. We are constantly creating institutions that do not have to pay for their mistakes (corporations, Fed & all banking systems, politics, justice system, education, defense..) This is unsustainable in any system. Like in an Ponzi scheme the last man standing is left holding the bag with nothing in it. Our original constitution took this seriously and had built in balances, however it has been rewritten out of existence by greedy politicians due to an uneducated public. It is our own fault, we had the tools and stuck our head in the sand while they slowly took them all away. Any good system has checks and balances, give a little, take a little. We cannot keep taking everything, we have to give something back for the next generation or there won't be one!
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    Oct 15 2013: chairman of the fed is appointed by who?
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    Oct 27 2013: Ang,

    Personally, I have to stand by the law that established the Federal Reserve. I would also stand by the conviction and punishment of anyone violating that law. I have no perspective on where a line is drawn.
    The law is the law. I really have no opinion.

    You make a point on money as an exchange medium. When mankind first gathered into small villages and the bartering of goods and services began, it seemed to work well. As there were more and bigger villages, a system of reducing value of goods and services to a more manageable construct brought mankind to a monetary system. Now, over the years, I have heard many theories on better methods of exchanging goods and services. Some enunciated on these pages. None that withstand rational evaluation. I wait to hear of the next great idea.
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    Oct 26 2013: Given that government is a corporation, does it matter which corporation prints the money?

    What is the difference between "public" and "private"? Companies traded on stock exchange are, technically, "public companies". Anyone can buy stock, become a co-owner, and vote in the stokholder's meetings. Is this what stock owners want? Control over decisions of the company? I think, most stock holders have no idea what those companies do, much less - how to improve them and make more profitable. Most people just want to make some cash.

    I don't know if I need to worry about it. As I listen to the media, there seem to be too many things that I "need to worry about". I have hard time choosing what to worry about first. Good health and enjoying life seem like good priorities. I worry that if I worry too much, I will miss these priorities.
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    Oct 22 2013: Hi Tom,

    I'll do another post here because I think it's kinda important for those who can follow the thread all the way from the root.

    Most will not be willing . ah well , not everyone alive can live very long - we all die.

    The important thing is that we all don't die. It's a species thing. We are human, we want to stay .. we don't need to stay but we should try - we are wired to care about our kids .. there's nothing "wrong " about that .. cows care about their calves - and before a calf is 1 year old .. we call that veal.

    We are veal to something else ..

    If we are to be more than crops, we had better get real.

    If we fail .. we are veal .. or venison .. or lamb.

    Have you ever tried to eat a chicken that died of old age?

    That's what happens when you get to know a chicken .. when she dies .. well, your jaw and teeth are not capable of eating what she left behind .. other animals do that stuff without breaking their teeth.

    We do all this money stuff .. in the old religions - most of this is called a "gleenng the field". The margin of the poor - the 99%.

    My grandfather told me about the depression - there were many people picking the fields after the harvest for enough starch to make a weak milk for the children who's mothers were dry.

    This is sad stuff.

    Except for those who have the prescience to silently slink down off the flanks of the tower of babel.

    That's a hard call - bring who you can .. feel no guilt for those who still think the tower will penetrate heaven and save us all - it just doesn't work that way.

    All that can be done is our best.

    Does that make sense to you?

    (edit for spelling - I'd rather the opportunities for mis-interpretation are eliminated - this is an important task for those who care about the many - as many as possible .. which cannot be all - that's the sadness)
  • Oct 21 2013: Tom,

    What would you like see replace the Federal Reserve? Banco de Espana?
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    Oct 21 2013: Tom... 300 trillion? Way too many zeros... All the old family wealth could go 300 billion... but...liquid funds are probably way way lower.
    A small farmer just outside of my town is a multimillionaire according to the tax collector on his land. But he has to borrow money to by a used car. It's liquidity...
  • Oct 21 2013: This system has bothered me to sense the moment i first discovered it and i can not find any way to justify it but i've found that the problem isn't weather or not its justifiable. People generally are not even aware what the federal reserve is, let alone that it's separate from the government. The problem is that so far no one has really noticed. This topic wasn't even brought up in my economics class... you would think that's one of the most important lessons to cover wouldn't you?
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    Oct 20 2013: If the Federal bank was not a private institution, what would happen to America?

    America has PHD for "washing money". They can always find the way. And the whole world is hostage into that.
    They are controlling money flowing, and money,the artificial creation, make them free to make arificial crises.
    Sometimes I wonder whom do we owe, why,how...?
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    Oct 19 2013: We have beaten the Feds et el. just about to death. I have said that most Americans don't really care. I have read a number of the problems that have been laid off on the Feds and how they do business. Now I am not one who will say the Feds are without sin. Much needs to be done to fix all the problems in oversight etc. But, many have commented on the Banks, the Wealthy. and the usual pinatas we see beaten.
    It is not fractal reserves, the concept central banking....
    It is Keynesian Economics that have upset the apple cart. Consider since 2007 The Federal Government using the Federal Reserve and their cronies have given us all the misery we have today. Have I just expressed the obvious?.
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      Oct 19 2013: Not exactly. It doesn't matter what silly ass idea they come up with as long as they can't finance it into perpetuity when it should be liquidated. And that is an ability peculiar to the FED.

      Fractionsl banking is another flavor of leverage. The problem is they make a bigger bubble and a bigger bust. Same with derivatives and to some extent credit cards.

      The problem is when the nanny state sells us mutts on the idea that it will be too gruesome to let them fail.

      The discipline has to be to force them to comply with Darwin's law.
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    Oct 18 2013: wow you said it,....and so clean.without bias.Just an illustration of a paradox of totalitarianism living alongside the democratic ideal of self actualization..with a call for some reasonable explaination on anybodies experience or opinionon the events. After reading the comments no one convinced me the idea is precious to anyone,,,So how does one feel ...paradox makes me feel disoriented and low on energy ..maybe slightely irritated ....think ill go do some addictive behaviours to relieve the stress......or is it the root that could paradigm shift,,,,
  • Oct 18 2013: They own every dollar that is printed. We just borrow from them. They are the masters. They can finance (buy) any politician. We have no leaders, just puppets. No one talk about this because no newspaper is foolish enough to bring it up.
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    Oct 18 2013: Pat,
    You got me... As I see it, the Mises Organization holds to the Austrian School of Economics and members of Mises have gone on to form the FEE. There was no direct comment on the Federal Reserves. It was the overall economic policies I read about and when Mises was mentioned in this conversation, I mistakenly run the ideas together.
  • Oct 17 2013: Before coming to a solution we must first assess the problem. First, the American people have forgotten their law (self included) and thus have become victims of ignorance. Rather than growing a pair like the people of Spain, Greece, Brazil and many more who demand change from our "elite," we live in constant fear of something bad happening to our house or car or sunday football. So until we drop the adopted child of the Baby Boom Generation aka consumerism, we will live in debt hell forever!
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    Oct 17 2013: Tom,
    You make a strong case against the US Central Bank. Agreed. But, Americans don't care. Not a concern.
    I make the point, that the central bank system is better then the alternatives. Does some of the missteps of the 1913 law need fixing? Yes, many, including more oversight and and accountability. But Americans don't care. Save the dozen or so who will make comment in this conversation.
  • Oct 17 2013: What I like the most about America is how the powerful white leaders in charge of the nation do nothing for the country and call themselves real Americans. Hispanics, blacks, and other immigrants aren't good enough to be American, yet they're the ones turning the gears of the nation, while all the elites sit on ridiculous piles of money that they could never spend in 5 lifetimes. I'm sure it wouldn't be a big deal if the "elites" poured 3% of their net worth in the US economy with nothing expected in return.

    In the meantime, China is taking its sweet time before cashing in on the US debt. It won't take long before the value of the dollar collapses to a point where people wouldn't wipe their feet with the bills. And when that time comes, greedy rich "Americans" will realize that all along, they only thing they truly ever had was money.