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R H
  • R H
  • Chicago, IL
  • United States

TEDCRED 30+

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How is it possible that God is 'Love'?

Everything in the natural world, or even the known universe, is competitive. Kill or be killed. Eat or be eaten. Human's most successful means of progress is competition. Win or lose. Succeed or get left behind. Do or die. Even stars and planets are created by violent fusion. Only the strong and competent - in any system - survive. Yet, we 'believe' that God is 'Love'. But where in the natural world is 'love'? Where in the universe is this love? Since we cannot 'see' it or identify it outside of human experience, and if it exists, where is it? Surely if God is Love, then His/Her creation should reflect it, shouldn't it? But all I see is violence. The wolf kills the deer. The bear kills the fish. The croc eats the human. The virus attacks the cell. The star explodes. Why have all of the major religions concluded that God is love? It seems obvious that God is not love, but God is 'Survival', or God is 'Violence', or God is 'Victory'. Because if God were love, then everything would be lovers, and the animals would commune, and the planets would 'birth', and our human problems would be centered around getting something done and getting out of bed because we'd be too busy loving each other - not killing each other. So, how is it possible that God is 'Love'?

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    Oct 11 2013: Hello RH,

    I see your point, but you might be confusing levels.
    What you see (physical violence) is only a very small part of the picture, and limited to the level of the material. There is a much MUCH bigger picture going on, part of which is also reflected at the material level in terms of acts of compassion, kindness, beauty and taking the risk of trusting another human - should you wish to see them.

    The earth is a school-for-consciousness-growth which demonstrates the full range from hell, to heaven. What I see out there reflects my own inner state of mind, and is nothing but a physical illusion-projection. This is now confirmed by top-end physicists in consciousness research, as well as being what has been taught by ancient sages the world over for thousands of years. IE: we are spirit-beings being fast-tracked for learning in the earth-school, precisely because the material level offers direct feed-back of our immaturity of consciousness - and that includes the unresolved violence (rage) within our own minds.

    Scott Bell, the first commenter in this conversation has rightly suggested there is a need to define what is meant by "Love". Here goes: "Love" is a complete set of incorruptible and benevolent laws that govern the self-organising universe with the singular purpose of promoting growth in consciousness that we are One".

    Love therefore does not hide from us the immature state of our consciousness, nor its reflection in physical violence, but patiently goes about its benevolent business until we reach our "point of enoughness" (individually and collectively) whereby with our gifted free-will we choose to end the violence in our own minds, thereby transforming earth from a hellish mix to a heavenly mix.

    Therefore a "God of Love" is not irreconcilable with the existence of physical violence on earth.

    (I've got a feeling the above comments will get me into trouble, but it's a possibility, isn't it?)
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      Oct 12 2013: Cute trick. A lot of people probably think that love has something to do with the unselfish feelings of caring by one being for another. But by defining love as a set of laws you've managed to prove that God is that kind of love. God is a set of laws ...

      Redefining words is the oldest debating trick in the book, but it is just a trick.
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        Oct 12 2013: Hello Paul,
        I wasn't aware of any deliberate trickery by redefinition. The statement "God is Love" doesn't really get us very far so, as Scott Bell suggested, I made an attempt to flesh out a bit more what this statement might mean. I'm open for others to have a go too.
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      . . 100+

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      Oct 12 2013: " Reach our point of enoughness " - I love it!! - that is a " heavenly mix" :-)
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      R H 30+

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      Oct 12 2013: Hi Joshua. Thanks for responding. I like your 'big picture' viewpoint and the 'earth school for consciousness', but you lost me with your interpretation of the illusion of what we see, the description of spirit-beings, and the immaturity of consciousness and unresolved rage. It is the 'self-organizing' universe that I am attempting to define. My question seeks to reconcile the definition 'God is Love' with the mechanics of the self-organizing universe - more specifically how 'love' is reflected in the constant exchange of death between the participants of that universe. So if I get you correctly, 'love' then means that it is something that is more fundamental than our self-realization (because our 'illusion' of pain and fear are insignificant to the exercise of 'love'), and we must 'resign' ourselves to this 'love' and 'suffer' in our state of illusion. You must be Catholic. :)
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        Oct 12 2013: I can state I'm not catholic, but I did have a churchy upbringing, which I left behind in my early 30s in order to try and find some more satisfying and convincing answers as to why I was here on this planet.
        I have also looked at the world of violence and asked myself the same question - how does all this make sense in relation to the statement that "God is Love"? I'll try again:
        1). In order to make sense, it must be in the context of some much much bigger picture of what's going on. What sort of bigger picture might make sense of it all?
        2). Only if somehow the violence is not ultimately "real" - though of course it is tragic, horrible and very real at the material level of experience. It is not "real" when our true existence is at a higher level. How could this be so?
        3). Our higher level of existence is that we are some kind of eternal spirit-beings of God-consciousness who live for ever, but who are in some way 'damaged' and need to awaken and heal ourselves back to wholeness. What damage?
        4). A mistaken belief that we are separated from the "God is Love" who created us and who says "You remain forever as I created you". And this God then adds "Being separated from me is impossible (for we are One), but since you have free will to choose how you relate to me, and exercising your free will has consequences, then my benevolent laws that govern the self-organising universe will allow you to experience this impossible status of separation". But how can the impossible be experienced?
        5). Only in virtual reality, in an illusion, {or as in when we are asleep, dreaming it all (viz: The Matrix)}. Welcome to virtual planet earth where the violence that comes from the belief in separation from the "God is Love" is played out on the human scale. So what's the way out?
        6). To wake up in consciousness and realise that we are NOT ultimately separated from the "God is Love", and to demonstrate this fact in relating peacefully to one another, and reaching out in trust.
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          R H 30+

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          Oct 13 2013: a very, very clear explanation. Thanks.

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