Robert Winner


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Government shutdown

I guess I am easily confused. MSN Money says we will los between $40 to $80 million dollars a day. The Huffington Post says we will lose $300 million a day

I recall Bill Walton losing $150 million in one day. I read the article and it said that he lost in "projected" gains. Under triple bookkeeping you can declare that as a loss.

That year I files taxes with a note that I had not won the lottery and had expected to so I am claiming a 10 Million dollar loss.

The audit was hell.

If 800,000 government workers are laid off at say a average of $60,000 a year salary that would be $28,84 per hour X 8 hours = $230.72 per day X 800,000 = $184,576,000 in actual "real" savings.

So say MSN was right and we are "projecting" a 40 million dollar a day loss ... $184,576,000 - $40,000,0000 = $144,576,000 a day in "real" savings.

Not only are we saving money during the shutdown Congress is tied up and not making stupid decisions ... the citizens finally win one.

Let me have a second to bask in this victory and then tell me why I am either right or wrong ........

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    Oct 4 2013: Seriously,
    The government is working exactly as intended by the Constitution. the Administration and the Congress are two separate entities and were intended to come together and resolve contentious issues.

    What the founding fathers didn't foresee, is the Senate being abolished and the House becoming bi-cameral thanks to the 17th Amendment. They didn't foresee that the people's representatives taking this as a career and not tasks of elected working farmers during the summer growing season.

    So, what to do?
    How about term limits for congress. When they stay to long, they get an idea that they were coronated and not elected.. 2 terms is more then enough.
    Amend the Constitution to revoke the 17th and get states back involved with the federal Government.
    While we are at it, Redo the 16th to limit how and what the Congress can tax on income. Right now they can tax anything and everything.
    And that little phrase that let's the Feds do "anything to make things better"... let's add: "that is not already done by the individual states"

    My favorite. Let's limit the Executive Departments of the Administration.... to 7.
    Management experts say that 7 is about the most one can effectively manage. We now have 20 odd departments and 40 odd czars, no wonder the President seems detached with all that is going on around him.
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      Oct 6 2013: Couldn't agree more on the 17th. See how Wilson ruined the 20th century.

      We have term limits in Calif, they don't work, the problem is that the clerks stay on and .indoctrinate the freshman politicians to the "way we do it" and nothing changes.

      A better solution might be to publicly fund congressional races.

      At the end of the day I think it will require the constituents to have a basic understanding of economics and how that effects politics. Unfortunately most don't know that they don't know this and are happy to regurgitate what they have been programmed to regurgitate.

      You mentioned somewhere the dumbing down of America. I think that it is at a cultural level and probably a natural cycle in all things, I'm not sure I can give the George Soros ilk that much credit although in the case of Wilson (the first progressive or maybe Teddy Roosevelt) he certainly sped it along.

      Not to mention signing agreements in the executive branch.

      Totally agree it is working EXACTLY how it supposed to, the president can throw as much of tizzy fit as he wants but congress's job is to say NO. They certainly did when it came time to end the Vietnam War, and keep Clinton in check which is the ONLY reason Clinton had a surplus and reversely Reagan increased the spending. Yup there are 3 branches although lately it would appear they have all been conflated into the executive. So if congress does it's job O will have to cry himself to sleep.
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    Oct 4 2013: We pay taxes to cover the cost of keeping the government running. If the government is not running and we continue paying taxes there should be a bunch of extra money in the treasury (144 million bucks a day). Use the newly available cash to pay down the national debt. All the unemployed government workers can eventually be rehired at 25-hours a week as independent contractors with no benefits. As far as lost government services all we can say is, Thank You.
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      Oct 4 2013: Edward for President.
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        Oct 4 2013: Is that Edward Snowden, or Edward Long, or Edward Scissorhands?
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          Oct 4 2013: The philosopher and statesman Edward Long. Edwards Snowden would be more transparent than we currently have and Edward Sissorhands could "cut" through the red tape but our own Edward Long is the whole package.
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    Oct 10 2013: Mike, I had a combined 30 years with the fed and went from the entry level to supervision. Looking back provides me with how the mission, goals, and vision changed at every level. I went from bitching about decisions to being the man I bitched about. I was set on making changes that would delete waste, improve efficiency, and all of the virtuous ideals ... It makes no difference what level you are at .... changes are small at best and the machine rolls on. Between unions and bureaucracy I could not eliminate positions and was often forced to take new positions. I would have a full days work to do and yet was forced to go to meetings where "political appointees" shared their egos with no attempt to address the issues.

    You accurately addressed the problems and a viable resolution. The communist party set out 41 points for the over throw of the USA and has achieved all but two ... history has shown that our current path will end as you say ... yet in light of these facts ... the march continues.

    The very fact that leadership no longer fears the people and is placing means of "control" in place should serve as a giant red flag ... again ignored by most.

    As a retired, senior citizen, and political independent I no longer have to please and follow stupid leadership who's only goal is to please their masters and protect their rice bowls.

    Every year we go through the same dumb argument about the debt ceiling. Evey year a budget is given and every year it is exceeded. That really is not the problem of government ... that is OUR problem. If we continue to elect irresponsible people we will continue the downward spiral. If we managed our homes / businesses like this we would be broke, divorced, and likely in jail. Leaders should be held to the same punishments for their failures to the people .. and certainly NOT re-elected.

    Always good to talk to another who has "been there". Thanks. Bob.
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    Oct 10 2013: Bob,
    I haven't really come out of the closet, but... I was a Federal Employee for 47 years and assigned to Agriculture, Interior and Defense. I came to the conclusion that the Federal Government does some good things but, It is so bloated and redundant and self-serving and, and .... it has gone from sublime the ridiculous. The Constitution assigns certain tasks to the Feds and the rest is supposed to be left to the states. That idea last until about the civil War. Since then the Feds has collected more and more of governance. Until we are here.
    If the Nation doesn't get smart and hold a state led Constitutional Convention and repeal a number of current amendment and establish term limits and Federal limits.... I see a maybe benevolent dictatorship in our future or maybe not so benevolent.
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    Oct 9 2013: I could be wrong, it's happened before, but it seems that the only Government shutdowns are parks and monuments, Let's save money and shutdown the National; Park Service. Sell all those parks to Disney and they'll be open 24/7/365.
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      Oct 10 2013: Mike, I think that the high states games now occurring are well planned out and nothing is by accident. The prize being the white house in the next election. Notice all of the news conferences the statement ... Republican shutdown. Not my fault .. again. The Republicans refuse to go along with us and I will not allow discussions, negotiations, or committees to resolve our differences.

      So I try not to listen to the ... as Shakespheare put it ... Sound and fury, the sign of a idiot. So lets go to the facts

      Federal employees = 4,373,601 - 800,000 = 3,573,601 Taken from the US debt clock. That is about a fifth or 20%. I tried to validate your question but could not access the Dept of Interior web site to see how many park workers there are.

      The things that have been selected for shutdown are like the mosquito. They are designed to make you mad. They are a inconvenience that the media can blow up into a big story that when analyzed means nothing. But, when combined with " the GOP shutdown" will influence your vote.

      When this first started the polls showed that a large percentage said it was the GOP at fault ... now there is less that a two point spread between the GOP and the Dems and for the first time Obama is being blamed at 41 percent. Interesting. The blame game is backfiring.

      Notice that Obamacare hiring and all of the media blitz is in full swing and spending billions. That federal web site is not down ... yet all the rest are, due to the GOP shutdown.

      You pegged it ..... One side is addressing a issue, the economy. The other is playing politics.

      I just envisioned a Grand Canyon rollercoaster. What a ride. Disney would turn it into a profit maker. But wait that would take away that pesky little mosquito from government control.

      We could go back to a Constitutional government ... and stop the BS .. and the emerging elite.

      Thanks for the reply. Bob.
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    Oct 8 2013: I think your major problem is that your whole system is waaaay too complicated. In Australia we have a lower house where the majority leader is the PM and a senate. If the senate blocks supply to the government, it's dissolved and we elect a new one. Of course we have the advantage that the entire electoral process must be completed in six weeks by our constitution.
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      Oct 8 2013: Actually Peter,
      It started out really simple. Our Constitution is just a few dozen pages and really simple in the concept.
      What happened is that a number of the revolutionaries wanted to set up a kingdom like the Brits had.
      Well, George Washington said no. But, they didn't forget. And ever since they and their descendents have gained office and slowly are turning the USA in that direction. Every two years citizens coronate royalty to go to the castle on the hill over looking the Potomac.
      Think I exaggerate... Check them out.
  • Oct 5 2013: Let me just comment on the accounting part of the government shut-down result. Apparently the computation by MSN or Huffington Post is based on the effect of government shut down on the GDP in the loss of pay by the government employees when they are temporarily laid off. But on the other hand, the government is actually hiring more people, such as the "navigators" for the newly started Affordable Care Act health insurance program. And if I have heard correctly, the House GOP is proposing to give back-pay to this shut-down casualty in order to keep more government offices open. So, hang on to your euphoria. Very likely we taxpayers would incur a net loss, instead of a net gain, as always in this kind of government malfunction.
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      Oct 5 2013: Awwwwwwwwwwwwww. Dagnabit.

      Just like Congress we are going to pay government workers for not working.

      I understand the hiring of the Obamacare people is still going on .... In Arizona we have both radio and TV ads proclaiming the glories of Obamacare. This must be costing us billions. Wonder if they are using Hilary's State department political indoctrination people or hiring it out.

      Ya gotta hand it to the administration they do know how to spend. LOL.

      I wish you well. Bob.
  • Oct 4 2013: You're neither right nor wrong,
    just foolish to continue looking at things the way you do.
    It's wishful thinking that somehow the answer is in there somewhere,
    and it's willful blindness to the truth, which you will never see because
    you no longer know what it looks like, sounds like, or feels like.
    It's not knowing how to look at or see, from a completely different perspective,
    that is not clouded by the induced slumber of brainwashing techniques
    and messages that are the vocabulary the majority now discuss problems with,
    as though they are actually getting somewhere.
    All the while keeping said populace in the control of false fear of how fast stores
    will empty of goods if said populace doesn't approve of what said leaders are doing.
    It is a plan that is being carried out, the slavery will continue, only worse, perhaps with
    a global currency to take or not take (it will be much worse if you don't take it, exactly as they threatened with the bailout), but no less false, as they were paid for the losses they incurred, cough, cough, from their greed for power, control and wealth.
    Your vocabularies (your tools) are broken, do not work and will not work.
    You need a new system and you are afraid of it because all you know is familiar, comfortable fear.
    So more than likely you will accept the new form of slavery.
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      Oct 4 2013: Being foolish and willfully blind and unable to determine almost anything .... must in your eye make me the perfect slave you have declared me, we, us to be ....

      A interesting rant .... but since I have been declared foolish and lacking in so many areas I could not possibly understand it.

      I will work hard to become as wise and all seeing as you.
  • Oct 4 2013: We are looking at the wrong numbers REally raise the Tarrifs and P O O F no deficit.
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    Oct 4 2013: Will Rogers once said that nothing is for sure but death and taxes.... only death doesn't get worse when Congress is in session.
    You know why Congress has such a low rating... They are mostly lawyers...

    I got a million of them..

    Why can't we go back to the old days, when congress gets balled up like this, they go out on the mall and have a duel.
    I miss the good old days.
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      Oct 4 2013: Yeah but then you would have to bury them ... cremation would pollute the air and burying them would contaminate the soil ... and I would hate to waste a good hole.
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        Oct 4 2013: No, No. Bury them whole. Mushrooms will grow. That's what mushrooms grow in.
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          Oct 6 2013: When it comes to lawyers they bury then 100 ft underground. This is because deep down under they are good.