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Moe Aye

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Why can't women have equal rights? What makes this impossible for people to accept?

Many people always told me that men and women are different. They are not equal, and that the role women plays are for the benefits of men. I believe that all of us, no matter what our age or gender, are always and will always be equal. Why is there so much difficulty in accepting this?

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    Tao P 50+

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    Oct 4 2013: The answer depends on which context you are speaking of. Since your comment is in response to 'why we have too few women leaders' I will reply to economic and political equality.

    Women will never be equal in the current system. I believe this to be true as almost every female leader who has come to the top plays a woman impersonating a man. In this way they are a shadow, an actor at best. Woman need to embrace their feminine power to be respected, but this is just the excuse that is most often cited as to why they cannot reach the top: they need to be tough, to be respected by the boys club.

    So make a new club. Make a new movement in which women support one another and there will be many men who will come to your aid as well. I think most who gravitate toward TED realize the current system has huge faults and if women only want to get to the top of the current system... well lets speed on towards the cliff.

    The dali lama said 'western women can save the world' and I think he is right. But this will not be achieved by Woman who chase money and power, it will be from those who realize what a woman's strengths are, and embrace them rather than trying to imitate a man.
    Embrace your femininity, your power, your sexuality, your emotions, your power of relationships, of community, of family.
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      Oct 4 2013: Well said Tao!

      Pat Heim, Ph.D., and Susan K. Golant address this issue in their book...":Hardball for Women".

      From the cover...
      "Author Pat Heim shows that you don't have to act like a man to understand and use the proven strategies of the business culture. Hardball for Women will allow you to flourish in the workplace while remaining true to your inner self so you can enjoy your work AND the rewards you deserve". "The Hardball for Women Playbook" is also very good.

      I totally agree Tao....when we embrace our femininity, power, sexuality, emotions and relationships, (know thyself) we are better able to flourish in various situations.
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      Oct 5 2013: Why is being at the top not for women and only men? Why can't a woman be at the top and not be called as impersonating as a man? We are embracing our feminine power and I am sure that there are movements around the world for that, just not as known. What if I don't want to grow up, get married, and push out babies but be involved in politics and economics instead? Am I a man now? Am I being irrational about being born a woman just because I am dedicated to having money and power as well as compassion?
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        Oct 10 2013: Hi Moe:>)
        Tao's statement is..."Women will never be equal in the current system". I think it is true that in the past, some women in leadership roles took on some characteristics more common to men, in order to fit in with the system.

        Often times, it is said that women are too sensitive....too compassionate.....etc....to be in leadership roles. I perceive Tao, you and I, as saying the same thing. Women CAN be in leadership roles and still support each other, embrace femininity, and emotions, with sensitivity and compassion, while being a good leader.
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    Oct 4 2013: My Dear Moe,
    Your profile says...."one day I will be making a difference in this world". You are ALREADY making a difference my dear, by asking questions which stimulate pondering and conversation.....good job!

    It seems like you answered your question! We are different...there is no question about that. I also believe, as you say, that no matter our age, gender, culture, etc., we can be equal regarding rights. We all could have the right to live without constraints. I DO NOT believe that the role women play is for the benefit of men, and that idea needs to be buried with the historical times in which it was encouraged!

    It seems like it is as simple as recognizing and appreciating our differences, while recognizing that as humans, we all have the same human rights.
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      Moe Aye

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      Sep 30 2013: That is a very interesting and valuable information you just said. It is true in most cases that women can only be equal if they see themselves as one and stop blaming other people.
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          Oct 4 2013: You are both stunning....inside and outside....mentally and physically:>)
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          Oct 5 2013: Thank you so much! Haha, I'm so flattered :)
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      Oct 4 2013: Excellent idea Fantasy and Moe!
      When we perceive ourselves as inferior, accept the "role" as given to us, and blame others, we fail to see our own strengths and qualities. Why do we expect others to give us something we are unwilling or unable to give ourselves?
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          Oct 10 2013: My pleasure Fantasy:>)

          It is a question I asked myself years ago, and one which I ask women who expect or desire something from others, that they/we are unable or unwilling to give our "self" :>)
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    Oct 2 2013: How do you define equality? If not for robots, that lookalike, act alike and get treated alike, what is equality? Or do you mean why can't men and women join and live for one another in the act of living? Where language exists, so does inequality, because we appraise and value things not uniquely, but in comparison. In comparison, there is always a second best. Like tennis. It is called competition, and equality would end competition and greed. Do you want to put the brakes on the world economy and stop power and greed?
    Please choose a more worthwhile and realistic struggle.
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      Oct 4 2013: Good to see Tao again Johnny :)
      I am agree with you.. !
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    Sep 27 2013: 1) Women are on average different from men
    2) two random people are different from each other
    3) when we are considering 'rights', then we are on a level of society organisation. I think most people should have somewhat the same rights...
    But that does not change the fact that differences in culture, gender,... on group and individual level exist.

    As a man, I don't consider it a right to get babies. I consider it my right to dress like a woman (If I would so choose). I consider it my right to behave among men differently as when behaving myself amid a mixed sex group. As I am free to behave different towards children or hooligans.

    Do you wish to discuss specific rights?
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      Sep 27 2013: I am quite sure that women are basically different from men in physical ways. What do you mean by 'I don't consider it a right to get babies'? Are you saying that the main role for the existence of women is to give birth to future generations? I hope I'm not sounding rude and I apologize if I am, I'm not used to debating over the internet and I might sound cold.
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        Sep 27 2013: Moe,

        I don't think I defined a role or a purpose to man or women. I wanted to point out that, being a man, I cannot bear babies, and cannot consider it a right. A women can get pregnant, and it is her right to do so.

        I do think that we need to reproduce, and if all women would stop getting pregnant, I would think men should either convince them that such an idea is rather fatal for our species (or we might agree that this is a good idea, or men might try to create artificial wombs). Same goes if men don't want to fertilize the eggs anymore...
        So, if you push your argument: we do wish to procreate, so we take up the roles accordingly. I don't say it is our main role, nor our only role. But it is one that should not be ignored.
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          Sep 28 2013: Oh yes, I agree with you entirely on this. Now if I look at this on a global scale, it is quite frightening. There are teenagers getting pregnant and therefore the term, 'unwanted pregnancy' comes in. We have over six billion people on earth and for every two person dead, three/four babies are born. That's a very rapid pace to be reproducing don't you think?

          It is, in my opinion, a requirement that women should give birth (or adopt a child if she cannot get pregnant) at least once in her life to keep the generation going, but it also makes me very upset when I see a TV show or an article about a woman giving birth to her 14th baby or carrying quintuplets. We need to find a balance in this or else overpopulating the earth can have a negative impact on the environment and to humans.
  • Sep 26 2013: In Islam (my religion) Man and woman are equally have rights
    the meaning of equality may be the problem, In my opinion I think every one has a role in life and the two sides can't live without the other side.
    The God have a wisdom in this.
    If the earth is only men can they live??!! and vice versa.
    there is integrity between men and women.
    This is the equality.
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      Moe Aye

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      Sep 27 2013: I respect all religions. It's the people that are the problem, sweetheart. It has always been like this, and I want to be the one to change this.
      • Sep 28 2013: that's I mean, if we follow our religion, we won't find any distinction and if not you can change your world.
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          Moe Aye

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          Oct 1 2013: It's not my world I want to change, it's for the others who are suffering from it. I can suffer, burn, crash and do what it takes if it means that this will make a change for the future generations.
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    Oct 1 2013: religion,philosophy,economics ...first we have a bunch of men who theorized women were inferior by their connection to nature(assuming nature was dumb)...then we have religion conspiring to build mythologhy to support such a belief,while quietly taking all wealth and property inheritance from women,then the economic argument is the last rung on a very convienient ladder for men ...birth,caretaking is not an economic event that factors into mankind..its external....one argument backs up the other with its new disguised argument...and then throw in a few women who claim to enjoy a submissive lifestlyle and there is WHY...We dont have street cars that are carriage assecibleor international daycare,but we have huge stadiums for men to enjoy football. I believe that men in fact dont like children as I examine iur priority list..and I dont think they really like women either as they guard their advantages under social myth...all this to unveil a ridiculous plan to drill into the earth and fight over resources that if family were the real goal would cease to make sense.
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    Oct 1 2013: I appreciate your kindness and zeal on this matter.I hope your thread will appeal to more conscious people of helping those women who still haven't got their merited social rights in some specific countries. And encourage the women in those countries to go on fighting for their future.
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      Oct 1 2013: Thank you very much, Yoka. I have a deep passion in changing how other countries such as India and Pakistan see women.
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    Sep 30 2013: Patriarchal systems and deep religious mindsets are deeply embedded into human's society, making gender equality highly unlikely in foreseeable future.
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    Sep 30 2013: No issue for me with equal treatment under the law for all citizens regardless of gender.

    equal pay for equal work.

    no problem for me.

    maybe made easier since I don't follow any sexist religion and born after women's equal rights established in law.
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      Oct 1 2013: I am glad that you see the discrimating horrors of sexist religions. I am surprised how many people don't realize what they believe in.
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    Sep 30 2013: Moe, As conversations on this subject always do ... this one is heating up. So in order to keep the focus on your question ... Please explain what you mean by rights. Human rights, civil rights, Bill of rights rights ... is there some confusion on rights, entitlements, or any other terms.

    What is allowed in one culture .. may not be allowed in another ... since TED is a international conversation site there should be some qualifiers ...

    So to be fair and have a meaningful conversation .... Define rights and identify the rights that women are denied.

    I think this will help the conversation and take opinions off the table.

    Thank you. Bob.
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      Sep 30 2013: When I mean by rights, I mean everything that shows inequality so there can either be laws involved or it can be based on just the emotional view of an individual. I take anything I can get.
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        Sep 30 2013: Moe, that is a perfect example of an emotional argument. Please do do confuse rights with anything I can get. The result will always be a circular argument and use of emotions ....

        I support your efforts ... there are problems ... address them with facts and present viable solutions. The continued misuse of the word rights will not help to address your concerns.

        You have a long fight ... choose battles not wars and chip away at the problem one step at a time.

        I think your a great kid and I admire your moxie .... hang in there.

        I wish you well. Bob.
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          Oct 1 2013: Thank you, Robert. I appreiciate your advice for me to fight on in this debate further.
  • Sep 29 2013: Its a question that people have struggled to find answers to.. I explored this idea a long time ago. It is something you can't completely get rid of. Men and women have equal legal rights (at least in most countries). In terms of brain power, both are capable of equal performance.
    BUT.. why is equality difficult to achieve? it has to do with traditions and social norms sooo subtle... people did not think it can cause some form of inequality.
    Example: in a household, who is expected to earn? and who is expected to take care of the family?... who is expected to provide security? there is traditional role and no matter how much you disagree with it, it applies to everyone. Who is expected to ask for a date? who is expected to pick up who for a date? who is expected to pop up the 'will you marry me" question?.. i can think of a few more traditional "gender" roles which rarely goes into question... but my opinion is.. these roles are sometimes so small and so rooted in society that overall it does reflect something of a society that is led by males... Equality is not really the issue.. there are differences that exist, anatomically and socially.
    You just have to accept the differences and consider these differences as it is. In terms of other rights however, you have to consider both genders equal. However.. it is easier said than done.
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      Moe Aye

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      Sep 30 2013: This really does answer all my question in every way possible. Thank you, Jeff.
      • Sep 30 2013: You are very much welcome.

        Remember all of these issues are rooted in societal norms.. written so deeply in our social habits that we always failed to examine them.
        Unfortunately for the most part, most of the world follows a path which gives advantage to the male sex.

        However, if you are interested to learn more regarding these issues, know that there are a few societies (unfortunately i can't recall them, one group is composed of ethnic chinese, and one is somewhere in Africa) that is completely female dominant! In fact the females sex dictates everything! and the males are almost just for reproductive purposes... let me repeat that... MALES...are just for reproductive purposes!
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          Oct 1 2013: That is quite horrible for the male to be this worthless. I don't just fight for women but for men also and it's horrifying to see how much there is to change in this world and especially in the third world countries. What makes this fight difficult is that many people stick to their customs and cultures for tradition purposes and it takes a large amount of passion and guts to speak out against them. I hope that one day this would change.
      • Oct 2 2013: They're not really worthless. That is their role in that society. In the eyes of the group, they are doing the part they were suppose to do. While it may seem degrading to us, for them its not.
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    Sep 29 2013: We should not be striving for equality, but rather unconditional acceptance of 'difference'. Impossible for many men in positions of power to accept women in a fiercely dominant patriarchy.
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      Moe Aye

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      Sep 30 2013: Why is it impossible for many men in position of power to accept women in a fiercely dominant patriarchy? What if, in this scenario, a man and a woman of both equal power meet? What do you think they would say in the thought of gender equality?
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    Sep 28 2013: it's always a woman who ask this question ,wonder too why the men can't have equals rights like women and some women can't handle that we're same!! ,maybe the nature is the cause or the old generations is the cause by their intolerence and we're fellowing it like truth or the next generations wil ask the question i did above like a dream from you.
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      Sep 29 2013: Can you tell me rights that men don't have?
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        Sep 29 2013: like the questions we did it's your right now and it's a dream for me...
  • Sep 27 2013: Thousands of years of social pressure and norms don't disappear overnight.

    It started out due to might makes right. Before the dawn of civilization, and even to a certain extent today, force of arms is the ultimate authority long after everything else has been abandoned or ignored. As men are simply more biologically fit for combat (by a wide margin in ancient times, and only marginally better since gunpowder came along), and more socially conditioned to fight (by quite a far margin), the power belongs to the men.
    This has been reflected in everything from social norms, to religion, to laws, and has ingrained itself deep in both people's consciousness and culture. All of these are notoriously hard to modify after being established.

    Seeing as there is more to a man or woman than his/her ability to fight, especially in our modern world, this attitude is quite unfortunate. Even completely disregarding the morality of it, shunning women as second rate is plain and simple a waste of resources.
    Of course, people rarely base their opinions and decisions quite so rationally. Which is why we have left overs from the stone age guiding our thought patterns even today.
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      Sep 28 2013: I completely agree with you. This problem is not going to change over night, but one day in the future there will be a major debate over gender equalities.
      • Sep 28 2013: Don't expect the change to be so sudden. Laws can be changed overnight, and have been in much of the world, but things more deeply ingrained in the culture can only be shifted gradually and with great difficulty.

        This is just one of those persistent problems that gets better over the generations, but may never actually be solved entirely.
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    Sep 27 2013: Depending on your view of history, male dominated society might have started about 6,000 years ago, the time the earlier part of the very-male-perspective of the Old Testament God was written/played out. (sorry, no reference on this). Male-dominated society is now being challenged - perhaps signaling that some aspects of history are cyclical and the current era may be a transition time. The older "stories" of Atlantis, Lemuria, etc also tend to have a much more equal, if not female-dominated flavour to them.
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      Sep 27 2013: Thank you for your comment. This gives me a better view on the history of how this happened.
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    Sep 27 2013: To have equal rights the women have to be strong enough to seize all rights first and then show generosity by sharing the half to men. That's how men did it once.
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      Sep 27 2013: Can you show me when or how men 'gave' half the rights to women? I believe that we shouldn't even have to share the generosity. That shouldn't even exist because it should be equal from the start, not one gender being generous to the other like charity. I want balance, not power.
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        Sep 28 2013: No I cannot. One cannot see one's own eye. :) But I believe history of human social development bear enough accounts in line with my statement. I read somewhere that the necklaces, bangles, ear rings are signs of prehistoric chains and buckles with which women were tied down by men as possessions.
        I am an old fashioned man and as taught by my father do silly things like pulling a chair for a woman. standing up to greet her, give up a seat to one in the tube only realizing way too late that all these gestures are sexist in core and reminders to women that they are weak and entitled to generosity by men.
        As regards balance, it is not free of power - we call this empowerment in modern days. It will be silly for women to do all things men do just to assert equality because men will never mother a child or hardly give up a career for a child.
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          Sep 30 2013: Very interesting notion indeed. It depends on the woman's view to judge on the man. You are, like you said, very polite and well-mannered and I see that as a good thing, on the other hand, there are people who don't for their own reasons. There's not such thing as a purely logical debate on these type of topics since the emotions we feel are always shadowing behind our arguments. Thank you, Pabitra.
  • Sep 27 2013: There is a lot less difficulty than you might think. That being said, a lot of people have a lot of personal gain from presenting institutionalized inequality as somehow inevitable. People who are in the favored group stand to lose a great deal. Virtue often goes by the wayside when it's personal comfort or convenience on the line.

    It's easy to be moral when it's something you would already want to do.
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    Sep 27 2013: why would men give up their advantages? it is like asking a dictator to stop terrorizing the people. majority of the people won't stop an activity just because it is morally wrong. they need some more incentive.
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      Sep 27 2013: I am not asking men to give up their advantages, only for men to accept women as their equal. What troubles me that gender equality is basically common sense, and yet why is it so difficult for people to follow that concept? I do know that everyone has different morals whether it is ethical or inethical. Do you mind explaining on what you meant by 'more incentive'? I am very interested in your opinion.
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        Sep 27 2013: if you are superior, and then you accept the other one as equal, you give up advantages. never in the history of mankind, the old culture gave its place to the new culture without a fight.
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          Sep 28 2013: Can you tell me a case when a person thinks they are superior and gives up advantages? This is the first time I've heard of it. For example, if I were to think of myself as superior to others and also see other people as my equal just because of my morals, there is no way I would give up advantages to success.
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        Sep 28 2013: no i can't. this is my point. people don't give up their privileges. women wanted to vote, they had to fight for it. slaves wanted to be free, they had to fight for it. blacks wanted equal treatment, they had to fight for it. injustice don't go away by people realizing it is not just. people are perfectly fine with injustice as long as they don't directly suffer from it. the ones that suffer always have to fight.

        good news: once an injustice defeated, it rarely comes back. slavery is gone. nobody argues for it anymore. women's suffrage is here to stay. one day sexual prejudices will go away. and then probably they will never return.
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    Sep 27 2013: Think, why your mother thinks in such manner? Because she has experienced this in her life. The Man dominant Society is not the result of one day process Moe. Many Centuries have been passed and every generation adding something to Societies knowingly and unknowingly. What we see today, is the essence of whole history about man and woman.

    -- Society View--
    Tell me why women have more rights when it comes to custody and ownership of items during divorces, women have the whole sexual abuse/rape "rights" as well. Why ? Why woman are insecure ? And who are they, making them insecure? Its man ! And now man are giving rights to woman like doles. I think this is unfair to woman, but still i can not blame man. Unluckily, there was not any jury of men and women (having equal ratio of both) to decide the rights of their own, in our present society.

    -- Nature view--
    Is there something in woman that can be snatched by man.If naturally there is an equality, why only woman are scared ? why not man scared for the same reason. Life (nature) do not follow our rules Moe. A seed (Man) multiplies itself in the womb of Earth(woman). A man can pregnant many woman in his life, but a woman cant give birth that much babies in her whole life. This is Nature (life). However, truth behind this natural difference is that both satisfy or compensate each other. Man is incomplete without woman and vice verse. Only bcoz of a woman a man is a man.

    -- Religion View--
    If i m not wrong all religion are man made. Why a lady priest is not there in any religion. Why not any religion is started by a lady. So, Religious view should be kept aside, since it will be partiality.

    Ok, so finally, in my opinion ,, I dont think women are lacking somewhere. The root of this 'discrimination based on sex' is deep under . It may take some decades to root out these inequalities completely, as our civilization is around 5000 yrs old, . Sure! everyone is equal and must be treated equally, including 'Eunuch'... :)
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      Moe Aye

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      Sep 27 2013: Can you tell me what your opinions are in changing this man-dominated society? It is a myth that women have more rights when it comes to custody and ownerships (statistically it is true, but it is uncommon for men to have custody either) but I believe that the majority reason on why women have an advantage in that position is because she is a "mother", and mothers have natural abilities on taking care of children. That is stereotypical of course, but it is always up to the judge to rule them out. But that doesn't mean that men cannot get full custody. In a show called 'Deadly Women', the judge decided to give full custody to the husband who used his wife to pay for college, cheated on her with his younger and more attractive co-worker, and has been verbally abusive. Why is that? What makes this behavior seem okay?

      Manliness is usually weighed out by the physical ability of that person. There are 26% more muscle mass in men than women, and that usually gives them confidence and ego. Women on the other hand are seen as individuals with empathy. Because of this reason, we hare supposively 'submissive'. There is even a sexual foreplay involving this behavior known as S&M. Fifty Shades of Grey is written by a woman, and that speaks volumes about how even through all this hardships we have fought for, there are always these small stereotypic behavior embedded inside the brains of both gender; and that is on how men are seen as the more 'powerful' gender because of their physical manipulation.

      Religion also plays a major role. There are various religion that provides balance for both genders, and ones that don't. Many people are struggling to change this aspect in life because it is a tradition, and tradition is part of history. It is very precious to people no matter the consequences and morals. It all comes down to the individual on whether or not they are accepting of their lifestyle.
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        Sep 28 2013: You doing good, your thoughts are not like your mom. You are not following that tradition Moe. You have changed. Think differently and one can make a big change in the system. Thoughts changes the whole scenario. Now, you wont live your life lyk traditional lady, nor your coming generations.

        You ll be agree that Men have not done anything intentionaly to make this kind of society. I suggest, Do not demand for women rights, Do not ask to make new rules or acts from men, from the Government... they are merely politics and men are clever & versed politicians. Where is the need of begging for Rights. Its your Birthright.You were born, found yourself in this man made unfair society. Society is not a individual body, it does not have any face that can be faced.Women should be the system. They must be involve in every field, specially Government Agencies. She should not ask for the rights, she should be the maker of rights equally.

        Transformation has already been started in society its been around 1 and half century. Even your this conversation is a good contribution towards this. Ppl are being aware of this. They have started think differently now..

        You doing good, keep it up. :)
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          Sep 30 2013: Thank you, Manish. My ideas and thoughts are not accepted because of my role as a woman but I am fighting through this. I am hoping one day I can be a role model for everyone out there.
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    Sep 27 2013: Moe thank you for bringing out a Debate on equal rights of gender and why people are not accepting it.
    I will give you an example in the place where I live Mumbai (Bombay) The Metropolitan corporation which have their own bus service were getting complaints from Women rights wing that it has become very difficult for women to travel in buses which are always jam packed (just think how women's who don't like people by chance looking at her, In jam packed bus people are rubbing each other for the movement from entrance to exit) Majority will give their sympathy to women and that what has happened exactly, the metropolitan Started reserving 12 seats in their bus. from the said example the other side of the story is The bus is a common medium for male and female to travel, both the gender suffer a lot because of jam packed bus both the gender are working and travel everyday thus both are having equal rights to sit on the seats but male are stronger physically the occupy most of the seats and out of sympathy, manners and respect they give their occupied seats to older women, pregnant women, women with a child carrying and sometime regular women too. (This happen in equal rights) while once the seats are reserved in order to empower women, what women started doing was, they started occupying those seats which are not reserved for women with an excuse that I want this seat, so now in the bus which has total capacity of 50 seats out of which 12 seats are reserved and no man can sit on them while 10 seats are always mostly occupied by women which are not reserved as they get the opportunity to choose the seats since they enter the bus from the first stop. Know the males and man carrying child along with other were feeling helpless and jealousy started rising and everyday verbal fight along with chaos is the new story in the bus So the point is equal rights like situation where there was no reservation is correct or reservation and giving preferences to one gender is right
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      Moe Aye

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      Sep 27 2013: There is no preference in gender equality. I want to point out that being ethical is different from haivng manners. There may be pregnant women and elderlies but this is up to the Metropolitan Corporation to help invent a better bus with more space. For example, Japan has a seperate bus for women only because of sexual abuse. Finding balance in everyday problems is much easier than it seems if everyone cooperated and speak their thoughts about it. This is a global problem. I believe that men who are taking care of their children should have the rights to take seats from women who are doing fine without them. I cannot control these people on what they think, no one can, but a little bit of persuasion can start a new root to solve these problems. Thank you for commenting Kuldeep, I learned a little more on everyday activites that causes strong feelings for both genders. I appreciate your perspective.
  • Sep 27 2013: It is going to take time and more competent women in the male dominated professions. Today, they are payed much less than their male counterparts - equal pay for equal work is what I believe in. In many cases women in these professions are ignored, degraded, and put in positions to fail. (not copied on e-mails, information is withheld, etc.) If someone is interested in the inequality of pay,

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghancasserly/2013/02/14/gender-pay-gap-wider-2012-and-its-great-for-women/
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      Sep 27 2013: The time starts now. Women need to be motivated to dominate and stand up for themselves no matter what the stereotype is. I can't believe what I was seeing when I read this article. Thank you for sharing this article, it is very helpful to me and this plays a major part in discrimination.
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    Sep 27 2013: .
    a) Because of males
    b) see a)

    As a matter of fact: Men and women are different and they are not equal!

    But this ONLY in their biological and psychological differences. And for the 'psychological' ones only those who are not acquired.

    In and for anything else, both gender are equal!

    The difficulties in accepting this lays in the fact, that no one is leaving an advantageous position without fighting it (which goes for my gender) and because it takes a lot of effort to free oneself from indoctrination (which goes for yours).
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      Sep 27 2013: Can you elaborate about 'biological' and 'psychological' differences in genders?
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        Sep 27 2013: Sure.

        Most of these 'biological' and 'psychological' differences are related to the asymmetry in the reproduction of our species and some may have manifested themselves by natural selection.

        Biologically, woman and man deviate by there genitals as well as in their overall layout concerning their part within reproduction. This goes down to the structure of the skeleton, covers organ placement and their development, as well as the muscle/fat relation of which most of it and in many cases is visually distinguishable from one another.

        Significant psychological differences can be observed in the following areas:

        - Sexual behavior
        - Aggression / Belligerence
        - Communication abilities
        - Multitasking abilities
        - Patience
        - Empathy

        This list is neither complete nor ranked in any order, yet we will find statistical significant differences in both genders which could not be sufficiently explained by cultural influences alone.

        Does this explains a bit what I was aiming at?
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          Sep 27 2013: Yes, thank you Lejan. I see your point clearly now. This is a very interesting fact and I am very happy that you are willing to share this with me.
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        Sep 27 2013: I have to thank you for starting this interesting debate!

        Unfortunately, even though we are writing the year 2013, this your debate has not become obsolete by now and is most likely not to be for many more years to come.

        I don't know if you did some reading about Matriarchy already, but it surly helped me to understand, that dominating 'roles' are no natural constants, even though some like them to appear them that way ... :o)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy
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          Sep 28 2013: Wow, this is an interesting page. Your involvement in this debate had me digging deeper in the history of genders and their roles. Thank you, Lejan.
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        Sep 28 2013: All of these interesting aspects, views and information your debate collected here seem to be in very good hands by your strong and clear sense of justice. So I have to thank you as well! :o)
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    Sep 27 2013: .

    Biologically, husband and wife are one "co-body" integrated spiritually.
    So, humans can survive in very difficult situations.

    There is no question of equality.
    It is a kind of primary symbiosis.
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      Sep 27 2013: Can you specify more of what you mean by 'primary symbiosis'? This is the first time I've heard of it.
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        Sep 28 2013: .
        Thanks!
        Very glad to!

        Please have the following:

        “...
        4. Parenting (Primary Symbiosis)
        Parenting is the first or starting period of primary symbiosis of a newborn person’s life.
        ...

        5. Sexual Love (Primary Symbiosis)
        Sexual love is an essential component of the second period of primary symbiosis in a person’s life.
        ...

        6. Marriage (Primary Symbiosis)
        Marriage is one of the most important parts of human primary symbiosis.
        ...
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          Sep 28 2013: Thank you. This gives me full understanding on Primary Symbiosis.
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    Sep 26 2013: Are you asking about any particular country? Since 1971 in the United States, the Equal Protection clause of the 14th amendment has been interpreted to include protection against gender discrimination. Do you know many people where you live who do NOT believe women should have equal rights?

    The laws, though, are not binding on, say, your mother if she says that only the girls in your family are allowed to help in the kitchen or if she says only the boys are allowed to go downtown by themselves at night.
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      Sep 27 2013: Can you explain, then, why women are paid less than men? Isn't that discrimination? I remember a woman walking out of the restaurant (such as Carl's Junior) she worked in (without taking her pay) because there was so much gender discrimination. She was paid less just because she was a woman, even when she was working as hard as other gender. It's not just the fact that there are laws to protect us, but the fact that most people cannot follow it. Teenagers (both genders) in my school (if you are wondering, I am a freshmen in high school) use such degrading names to call women such as (excuse my language) 'bitch' or 'cunt' and it's ridiculous to see that they are laughing at something so serious. Why is it that I can understand the seriousness of things and they can't?

      Have you ever wonder why less than 8% of women have high roles in societies such as a CEO or a judge? For the particular country, I am mainly talking about the U.S, but I am also looking at this at a global scale. Thank you so much for the information of the 14th amendment. This is a great comment.
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        Sep 27 2013: I thought you were talking about rights, as in the rights people are guaranteed by law- to speak, to vote, to congregate, to practice their religions, to a jury of their peers, to the full protection of the laws, and so forth.

        I don't know anything about how salaries are determined at restaurants. In many jobs, salaries are negotiated individually. A person is offered a rate of pay and he says yes, or no and may not even know what others are paid. An employer will offer a rate of pay he thinks is the lowest the person will accept given the opportunities he may have elsewhere.

        Other jobs have a pay scale, like that entry level people are always paid a certain wage or a wage that is very precisely determined by factors like how much schooling or experience they have had.

        I think if girls are being called demeaning names at your school, either you girls or your parents need to speak with the school administration or counseling staff. My daughters never experienced this and it would not be tolerated at my son's school. What you describe about the girl leaving Carl's junior sounds more like a case of harassment than what people normally call gender discrimination. An employer that promotes an environment hostile to women is vulnerable to a law suit.
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    Sep 26 2013: Where, in the power structure of our society, are these people you mention who have difficulty accepting the idea of equal rights for women. Chauvinists and misogynists have virtually no chance of being elected to a policy-making position in modern America. So government and social policy is vigilant in assuring equal rights for everyone. Are you addressing the whining, snivelling, petty, socially insignificant men who have no power or influence to speak of. If your goal is to "convert" them I can only say lots of luck. Focus your intellect, energy, and passion on liberating those who are actually denied equal rights, like the unborn.
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      Sep 27 2013: Thank you very much, Edward, I am working towards a goal for global peace and happiness for both genders. I am a freshmen in high school, and I do know that I do not have enough power to stand on my own feet, but I am working hard with passion. I would just love it if women are more politically involved and could have their opinions heard just as loud as men do. Yes, there are many men who can get away with being whiny, petty, and awful and people just make excuses saying "Oh, no worries, he's just being a manly." When women do the same thing, I would hear "Would you look at that? How sad is it to see a woman so worthless?"Do you ever see an article about world-wide debates in women's magazines? Even some women themselves support their stereotypes. For instance, having children, the importance of being intimate with your partners to literally having a written out article mainly on pleasure directed towards men.

      I'm not exactly sure on how to persuade people into seeing serious debates like this in different perspectives. I might as well just write a book. Thank you so much for your opinion and I enjoyed reading your comment. This means very much to me both as a woman, and as a human being.
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    Oct 9 2013: none of us are equal within our own limits or in the eyes of a creator. it is naive to think age is not a factor

    man still thinks of himself as THE provider, and the womyn THE caregiver...
    as time goes on these roles have changed with WOMYN being the PROVIDER having more employment opportunities than most men.
    this emasculates them causing resentment...
    it's not that WOMYN don't have EQUAL RIGHTS - it's man emasculating man
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      Oct 10 2013: Carlo,
      I am curious to know where you got the information that women have more employment opportunities than men? According to statistics, the workforce is made up of 88% men (2012)....down from 98% men in 1956.

      Here is one of many sites that give us this information:
      http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/19/news/economy/men-workforce/index.html

      It is too bad that some men feel "emasculated" because of changing roles. Perhaps a new worldview would be helpful to them.
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    Sep 30 2013: IMO "Gender Equality" will probably NEVER happen... at least until we reproduce asexually.

    We were not born equally, we differ in knowledge/culture/personality/environments. With so much variables how can we still expect a constant?

    There will probably be that one guy that thinks women should be able to work and have job advancements just like every other male equally.
    [Politically equal]
    Cool, then what happens when the girl is pregnant? Guys don't get pregnant. How are you gonna make that equal? Guys have to be induced in labor too?[Machines that does that exists already] Maternity is given to both genders?

    I love it when people say "women deserves equal rights". They always forget {EQUAL RIGHTS MEANS THE OTHER SIDE HAS IT TOO}
    What i mean is, look at the law, there is laws for "People","Children","Things[Buildings/music]","Women". There is no additional legal rights for man. It was never equal, and it will probably never be equal anytime soon.
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      Sep 30 2013: I didn't forget that the other side has to be qual too. I'm not telling everyone to change their bodies on any way and this is clearly insulting the beauty of pregnancy and reproduction. Just because a woman is born with a womb to carry a child does not mean that men are not involved in the process of it. You make this a bit more complicated than it needs to be.
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        Oct 1 2013: IMO Well its the little things that add up.

        After reading Robert Winner's post, i wonder what angle are you hoping to get at this question specifically?
        Because on an emotional level, thats reallllllly hard to have equality.
        Alternatively, how would you encourage the law to be altered that would be considered fair?
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          Oct 1 2013: No one is really speaking out these days. The government is in chaos, the people are changing in negative ways and there are no time for men and women to speak out their opinions. It is difficult to encourage the law to be altered by myself but if many other people demand the same thing as I am, this will have a positive effect and it will be taken as a step forward to the future generations.
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      Moe Aye

      • +2
      Sep 30 2013: The truth is, women will fight for their rights and equality no matter what, but not while looking like a total slob.

      ~me
  • Sep 29 2013: Hi Dear Moe Aye,Do you think men and women are equal?
    When I was young,I did think men and women are not equal.But when I start to get into middle age,I am aware of men and women not that equal or unequal question.we are individual...we should do what we can do ,but try to do what we can't do.I don't know why people like to have a competition particulary between men and women,I feel it is really ridiculous
    • W T 100+

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      Sep 29 2013: I feel it is really ridiculous too.......where have you been dear Edulover?
      I missed you!!
      • Sep 30 2013: lol,Dear Mary:) new term started already,I got been quite busy with my teaching job and taking care of my parents and child....
        My little girl is a junior middle school student now...she starts to be very enthusiastic in maths,chinese,english studying.It is probably from her teachers' motivation.
        How have u been doing?Dear Mary:)I missed u all guys here.
        • W T 100+

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          Sep 30 2013: Off to a new year at school......how exciting!!!
          This conversation is a good one for discussing with middle and high school students.
          Did you read Jeff Cano's answer above? He expresses what I also think, but he does it very eloquently.....I had so many ideas floating in my head, I could not organize it.
          We have been busy too. I am taking university courses and have a lot of homework. TED helps me to relax a little by enjoying the videos and participating in the conversations. I forgot how much stress univ. classes can be......a good part is, there are many age groups in my class, so it makes for lively discussions.

          Have a wonderful week!
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      Moe Aye

      • +1
      Sep 30 2013: It is ridiculous, I certainly agree. It's not about the competition but the fairness of it. The acceptance is wanted by most people of both genders. Women like me don't ask for acceptance, we earn it and we take it by force by our ethical views, but I can't say the same for others which is why this debate was born.
      • Sep 30 2013: Hi Dear Moe Aye:)that's good we got such a nice topic to discuss together.Thank you.