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i think, therefore we exist.

I think, therefore we exist
Descartes said “I think, therefore I exist”.
Brief summary. If everything turn out to be illusion, e.g. the whole world is like dream or omnipotent is tricking you or that you in matrix…. There is one think you can false back to and prove that you exist.
1) I can’t doubt that I’m doubting
2) I can’t be decieved about whether I’m thinking.

 If I am doubting, I must exist
 I think, therefore I exist.
He was first western to prove and support dualism. Using indiscernibility of identical it possible to prove Mind & body as separate.

However I believe he is not correct. The problem with his agrument is where is he getting the ‘I’. How can he separate the ‘I’ e.g from the illusion or omnipotent or matrix … If he know the ‘I’ he does not even need prove that ‘I must exist’. He simply say ‘I know myself, therefore do not need prove even I exist.’ He or not anyone know ‘I’ only ‘we’, so what is we is dream we is you and dream, in omnipotent tricking you, we is omnipotnet and you, in a matrix we is the matrix system and you. Etc..
1) I can’t separate myself fully from the we.

->we think, therefore we exist

To agrue against 1) I can’t separate myself fully from the we. You say that the part that is doubting is me and other part that is not doubing is other entities. It only prove that you are doubter, not best describation of you.
1) Do you 100% doubt ? very unlikely. Plus
AND
2) While other entites 0% doubt. Very unlikely. (because matrix or omnipotent know what it doing to you, you are one in confusion)
3) If you can know what I is, you are not in doubt. You don’t need prove it.
Without doubt we can only best prove. We (or I) think, therefore we exist.
Therefore it is not possible to separate the body and mind as totally different planes. You need a better prove to prove dualism.
Good thing in case of mind & body, I (the mind or brain) think, therefore we (mind & body) exist. It is hard separate both.

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  • Sep 21 2013: In the eastern tradition. The I is not quick or simply define.
    In Hinduism and Buddhism. there is a school of though that question if everything is a illusion.
    for example one though is Vishnu is dreaming and we are the creation of his dream.
    it is interesting to know that people have consider these question many many years ago and came with a different answer.
    • Sep 21 2013: It is a fascinating question, I agree with you on that. Let us for a moment consider the example you provided: that Vishnu is dreaming and were are all the creation of his dream. For the sake of debate, let us say that this is true. Vishnu is dreaming, and we are all in his dream. Consider this: We you dreaming, your dream is from one point of view - whether that be from one person or as if you were holding a camera above the action in your dream. However, if you are dreaming as if you are holding a camera above some action or event, have you ever noticed you are unable to know what the characters in your dream are thinking? On this planet, we have 7 billion points of view or sets of ideas about the world around us - one for each person on earth - I tried to prove or at least support the concept these ideas do exist, in my last post.

      Of course, I'm trying to mix religion and science here, which gets messy because religion is (by today's standards) impossible to prove. So much of what I'm saying is not pure logical reasoning. But its fun to think about it anyway, eh?! Thanks.
      • Sep 21 2013: I do not know that school of though, i know it exist. I will be bad explainer.
        I am not very religious.

        In religion it is faith. I will say this He is a God.:)

        I will have look at the philosphy to better explain.


        In Hinduism, least in some of them. we do not take God as separate from his creation. we are not created by god, we are part of god. God is different definition, further we are god not separable from (him or her or it). there is not god. further we are god. what why Hinduism is monotheism, polytheism, atheism, spiritualism, athothesium and more ... at same time. remember God is different definition. I am not good ex plainer.


        It is not 7 billion point of view that make Vishnu, it the whole universe or multiuniverse that make Vishnu. it not just mental, physical and unknown and unknowable realm that is Vishnu. In some view , we like atheism or spiritualism. how we normally live and have 7 billion view that is how it is.

        to simply put it, there are many path, we choose a path, point of view to look at the universe and understand it. Vishnu is dreaming is one point of view to view the universe and everything, there are many many more in Hinduism.
        • Sep 21 2013: Thank you for explaining. I appreciate you helping me to understand that, and you did a great job at explaining. It truly is fascinating how many paths their are to understanding our universe.

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