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Should we legalize hard drugs in the US and elsewhere? If not, what pragmatic (not moralistic) arguments justify continued criminalization?
Elizabeth Pisani, a self-described "public health nerd", makes an extremely persuasive case that governments should make the highly cost-effective decision to pass out needles and condoms in order to prevent HIV.
Today, I read that a mass grave was found with 116 dead bodies, victims of drug-traffickers in Mexico.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-bodies-20110413,0,1508583.story
So, should we legalize hard drugs in order to take away some of the financial power from drug lords and reduce the incentive for violence in the drug trade?
Argument from reason:
Profit from drugs is extremely high because they can only be obtained illegally. Because drug sellers cannot use the legal system to enforce deals, they must enforce contracts extra-legally (with guns, violence, etc.) By financing drug-traffickers' weapons and operations, the drug trade makes other crimes more possible/likely. Legalizing hard drugs in the US a) removes the major market for drug cartels in Mexico, thus removing a huge source of financing for violent, organized crime, and b) provides a non-violent method of dispute resolution for the distributors in the US, possibly saving lives.
Argument by analogy/history:
So, given that ending Prohibition took a huge chunk out of the finances of organized crime:
http://www.umich.edu/~eng217/student_projects/nkazmers/organizedcrime2.html
Argument from authority:
And given that very smart Harvard professors think drugs should be legalized:
http://www.businessinsider.com/all-drugs-should-be-legalized-immediately-says-harvard-prof-2010-10?comments_page=2
I take it as self-evident/overwhelmingly obvious that we should pass out needles and condoms to prevent disease, as Ms. Pisani suggests. But given the aforementioned reasons, should we legalize hard drugs in the US and elsewhere? If so, are there other/better arguments for legalization than the ones I've given? If not, what pragmatic arguments justify continued criminalization?
Bill Harrison 10+
Tim blackburn 30+
Michael Cholewa
The reason we should NOT legalize/decriminalize the drugs is because the prison industrial complex will lose money/jobs?
I'm hoping your entire post was sarcastic, but I can't tell.
Tim blackburn 30+
Bill Harrison 10+
Tim blackburn 30+
Tim blackburn 30+
FREEDOM
Colleen Steen 500+
Passing out needles and condoms to prevent HIV may change someone's behavior to prevent a disease, and does not seem comparable to legalizing drugs, which will cause drugs to be more available, but does not necessarily change the user's behaviors or need to obtain money to buy the drugs...unless with legalization, we are planning to pass out drugs as well!
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
http://www.medicalinsurance.org/marijuana-facts/
Bill Harrison 10+
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/opinion/17carter.html?src=me&ref=general
Tony Sanchez
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/big-pharma-a-real-war-against-drugs/
http://www.uneditednews.co.uk/Other-News/the-pharma-mafia-monopoly
Too many jobs would be lost by legalizing drugs, much more than it would create. The profit of drug trafficking while at the same time fighting a war or drugs spending billions of tax payers money is simply too high to be jeopardized by legalization. How many people are in jail right now for drug use/possession?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CyuBuT_7I4
Tim blackburn 30+
Bill Harrison 10+
Andrew Buchmann
Needle sharing and use has been reduced just by places providing free needle exchange. I know there is one in Syracuse NY, and if I remember correctly, I had a guest speaker in high school from the clinic who said that the program was reducing use.
The key is public policy can make things safer. It just needs to be used effectively.
Bill Harrison 10+
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-drug-policy-20110602,0,1200377.story
It is their job to look at drug policy and come to an objective conclusion on what ought to be done. These are not stupid people, presumably.
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
Tony Sanchez
Tim blackburn 30+
Dan Grahn
I will give you two arguments, although most likely neither one will be to your liking.
Argument from Reason:
Hard drugs create a euphoric feeling in the user generally termed a "high".
Euphoric feelings are addictive, they are why we want a good life.
Joining the first two, hard drugs contain the capacity for addiction (along with anything which induces or entices a euphoric response.)
When addicted to something, a user will go to great lengths to ensure the next "fix".
As the addiction strengthens, these lengths grow.
Much household abuse is a result of drugs, many murders are people looking for drug money (including a double axe murder which occurred less than 2 miles from my house).
Thus, hard drugs should be illegal.
Argument from History:
Remember, crime rates in the US hit all time lows during the prohibition.
Argument from Culture:
A huge majority of American's profess belief in the Bible or in Biblical ideals. (http://religions.pewforum.org/affiliations)
The Bible is expressly against any mind-altering substances.
Recognizing this condemnation and striving for a good life, the substances were criminalized.
My answer:
This world is messed up... really messed up. It won't matter if you legalize drugs, people will still abuse people.
I remember a movie, "That's what I am" which had a simple formula:
Human Dignity + Compassion = PEACE
Until you have something similar to that, then you will still see 116 bodies in a ditch, it's the way the world is.
Personally, I do not use drugs for the same reason I don't drink coffee or overindulge in salt or sugar. I prefer natural high's. Rather than blast my palette with course overemphasized feelings, I take delight in the subtle joys of life.
Hope you enjoyed!
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
To say people who would do anything for their next fix would lead to criminal behavior is without reason. People steal for profit daily, to think all these people are addicts is an unsound argument. Also to consider that these people who steal are only stealing to get money for their drugs is also unsound.
Many murders are for drug money? Really? Here I thought most murders occur in war, gang violence, serial killers, and suicides.
Second argument: Prohibition was where crime rates were the highest, this is where you are wrong. Some of the original gangs and mafias can trace back to prohibition and bootlegging alcohol. Also some of the original counterfeiting for money came from those times.
I agree completely there are natural highs to be enjoyed in life. I agree people are ill-educated on how to live life to the fullest and to be truly happy. I even agree what separates people the most are superficial details involving cultures. However if people were educated in these terms, hard drugs would prove only to benefit.
As of now hard drugs being illegal puts restrictions on our personal freedoms which is completely ridiculous because that makes it more appealing and interesting and make it taboo, and guess what the more people are said not to do something, the more they want to do it. Reverse psychology. Look at my drug abusing generation, the illegality means nothing, they will do it, in fact the fact it is illegal advertises hard drugs more than it would being legal. BECAUSE you would never hear about them then!
Dan Grahn
First, video games, sex, alcohol, cigarettes, etc. are addictive and cause people to act out in many ways. However, they do not offer the same intensity high as drugs (speaking not out of experience, but from general knowledge). In addition video games, cigarettes, and other mild addictive do not have the same mental state altering capabilities. People murder for sex, they kill while drunk. In the same way people will do anything for drugs. I have witnessed friends come begging for money to get the next high, I have seen them ruin their lives and regret every minute of it. In addition, "mild" hard drugs such as crack cocaine are gateways towards drugs like heroine.
I should revise my statement about murders. While a significant number are drug related, many are not. Please note that I am not including war as murder since most war today is well intentioned and (hopefully) falls under the category of a just war. But that is not the question at hand.
I will retract my statement about the prohibition. The data I was referencing has recently been retracted. I should have checked on my sources before doing that.
Debra Smith 200+
They believe that Shakespeare might have been a natural synesthete and many creative people and artists are as well.
Looking forward to hearing your experiences!
The Thread is called "the man who tasted shapes" after a book by that name.
Clifford Thornton
Emory King
Through prohibition, the problem has been portrayed to be in the drugs themselves and the effects they tend to have on society; but the problem rests with the individuals engaging in such behaviors abusively and excessively. If it is just for us to forbid the the use of psychoactive substances, simply because the abuse of its activity holds the risk of causing personal/communal detriment, then what keeps us from forbidding any activity that holds this same risk (sex, exercising, gambling, gaming, eating, living, etc ).
Aaron Nielsen
By removing the prohibition against drugs, we can dramatically lower crime, stabilize the border and reduce the amount of immigration from Mexico somewhat,and open up a new revenue source for the government. We should then concentrate more on treating addicts and educating kids about drugs, and enact all of the necessary and proper regulations to ensure that they are not sold to people under 21, for instance, and that they can't be advertised, etc. I think that over time, the demand for illegal drugs would decrease gradually following a lifting of their prohibition. It's just a personal hunch, but I believe that not too many new people will become buyers when they are no longer buying drugs from their friends at school, or shady dudes in the park, but at drug stores with black box warnings.
Cara Lavan
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
There is a BIG difference between a person who researched the drug they are doing and a person who has no idea what to expect upon consumption. A person who read about and gathered information about a drug before they tried it, KNEW WHAT TO EXPECT before hand and was able to mentally prepare for it. Someone who didn't freaks out and does stupid stuff some of the time.
Education about drugs will prevent drugs from being miss used while having their potential for good to be maximized.
Addiction? So, video games, sex, gambling, working out and other non-substances addictions are better? It is all about moderation; teach it, practice it, and do not be afraid to call someone out on their problems that are killing them slowly.
It is hard for me not to tell a fat person to drop the burger, but I have to, to be "civil". Although obesity is not only a cause of over 12 causes of illness, it is just down right disgusting to eat more than what you need to survive (that part is my opinion of course).
The problem isn't drugs, drugs are awesome they allow you to think alternatively and in new perceptive, plus the colors!! The problem is the education revolved around drugs.
Seriously marijuana is still a crime... talk about a natural medicine that will benefit so many for such a low cost being labeled more dangerous than cocaine and crack. Idiocracy I say!
Tim blackburn 30+
Nicholas Lukowiak 50+
It is just obvious how screw up the system is, because people allow others to convince them of an invisible problem without doing the appropriate research themselves. Then they take legal drugs that are worse than the illegals.
I mean we can give zoloft (cocaine) to kids but dam if you can have some!
Debra Smith 200+
Bill Harrison 10+
I agree with you that drug addictions are terrible for individuals, their families, and society at large. I just don't agree that legalizing drugs would necessarily lead to more addictions.
Smoking cigarettes is legal, but most people don't smoke because it's stupid and no longer cool. Likewise, if crack-cocaine or meth were legal, I don't think most people would run out and start smoking crack or meth. In fact, the money that we save from policing drug lords and prosecuting and imprisoning users could instead be used to run rehabilitation centers.
"To add more is a scary idea that will enslave millions more" - this makes me think that the arguments against legalization are based upon fear rather than reason. Both drugs and addictions are scary, and therefore they should be illegal, doesn't really seem to consider all the other ways we could limit drug use if it was legal.
Legalization doesn't necessarily mean more drug use or addiction.
Debra Smith 200+
Tim blackburn 30+
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=portugal-drug-decriminalization
Aaron Nielsen
Also, I think we should be a little more specific when we talk about legalizing hard drugs--it's not as if they would be able to sell their product with no strings attached. There would be numerous strict regulations that drug companies would have to abide by in order to operate--the whole process of drug use, which happens now without any oversight, would be made much safer.
Tim blackburn 30+
Debra Smith 200+
Tim blackburn 30+
Tim blackburn 30+
Cara Lavan
Aaron Nielsen