David Hubbard

This conversation is closed.

Who are the Syrians running from?

My Canadian's view is that they want to get out before the county is levelled. Lets dialogue on this. It's important. Our hypothecating about a better world is meaningless if the big toys come out and they very well could. I don't like having foreign politicians heading down a road that could lead to a nuclear conflict. I suggest that intelligent conversation could help input some sanity into the situation.

  • Sep 8 2013: by 'the syrians' do you mean the syrian people, the rebel forces, the government? i am sure that none of the above forces want to be 'leveled'. let us hope that this doesn't happen. i agree with the ideal of intelligent conversation being a positive input but my observation is that this is something in which the will of the american people is not being considered at this time.
  • Sep 11 2013: Nadav Tropp Your understanding seems well thought out.
    Israel, -- Iraq -- Lebanon. -- Jordan,
    All have good reasons to not get involved.

    Jordan was invaded by a Syrian Army Division some years ago,
    So they have some idea of what Syria might do in retaliation.
    A piece of news that I have not researched --
    During the Chemical Attack, and while people were dying,
    the United Nation's representative had arrived in the city
    and was staying at a Hotel located only 4 miles away.

    Another thought I had concerning reasons for the attack.
    ...Assad's younger brother.
    ...Assad's older uncle.
    Both volatile individuals, and accomplished commanders of
    Syrian forces.
    ...More likely the younger brother, who hasn't been heard of
    for a while, and may be injured.
    ...Less likely the older uncle, a 76 year old, Paris resident.

    Other motives --
    Perhaps, a squabble of some sort between factions?
    The rebels themselves?
    The simplest answer is generally the correct one.
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      Sep 11 2013: Do you suppose that this could be just a local issue that the sensation hungry media and the war profiteers are expanding out of proportion, with oil benefits in mind?
      • Sep 11 2013: I wish it was, but with refugees, foreign backing of some of militias and Assad himself, and the occasional skirmish, terror attack or rocket jumping the border to neighboring countries, it isn't local (unless you consider something that affects an area as large as the middle east as "local").

        Also, there isn't much oil in Syria. They used to export it, but never in any significant amount. Which is why an intervention hasn't happened a long time ago.

        Its also got nothing to do with the sensation seeking media--they're not blowing anything out of proportion. They don't have to, with millions of refugees and a hundred thousand dead and counting.
        The chemical attacks have actually been going on sporadically for months now; its just that last one that caused a lot more casualties than usual, and caught the world's attention because of Obama's handling of it.
      • Sep 12 2013: David, I think this is really a cover-up of the NSA thing.
        First, Obama got caught in a big lie on National TV,
        while on the Jay Leno show, when he attempted to
        lie about surveillances of the American people.

        When added to those recent 'inaccurate statements"
        told by the Director of the DNI, and also the NSA's Director,
        US Army General Keith Alexander, while testifying under
        oath before before both the Senate Judiciary and Senate
        Intelligence Committees, any credibility Obama had was
        gone. Our inept Congress just won't put liars in jail.

        We had Nixon, a shameful sight. We have Carter, a good man,
        But we also had and have both Bush's, both Clinton's and now
        Obama. For shame...

        Are we Americans supposed to close our eyes and ears to what
        our Presidents have been doing for the last 20 years?

        The UK told Obama NO. The French want a UN resolution.
        Obama used the G20 as his soap-box to drum up partners.
        10 of them gave him only a signed statement, nothing else.

        Obama stands naked before the world. Someone will judge him.
        Only a matter of time.
  • Sep 10 2013: It is just my opinion that President Obama is hiding the
    NSA faults behind a Syrian façade.
    It appears that the Lies are coming out to haunt Obama.
    US Army General Keith Alexander, referred to not as a General
    in today's news, but just Keith Alexander, gave inaccurate statements,
    to congressional questions, (under Oath) concerning the NSA and FISA.

    When a US Army General lies (under Oath) to the US Congress,
    that I believe is Treason.

    When his Commander-in-Chief lies, on television, in reliance of
    the General's lies, then tries to assure American citizens that the
    NSA surveillances were NOT being used against American citizens,
    is also guilty.
    How guilty?
    Well, pretty damned guilty.
    Obama is supposed to be the Commander-in-Chief.
    Jimmy Carter would see through this mess in an eye-wink.
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      Sep 11 2013: The spooks have to do something. If we have nothing to hide we have nothing to fear
      • Sep 12 2013: David, we have much to hide.

        We need to know --
        Who is in league with the Rebels today.
        Bandits and Al Qaeda type Terrorists have been suggested as
        having taken control of the Rebellion, and are using US supplied
        Weapons and Ammo.

        What are the connections between the Department of State's CIA
        and the Rebels, both now, and before. Is our 'oversight' working.
        Does Congress know? Why do the American people keep being
        pushed into the dark?
        The Time of WAR is Over. ..No More WAR.
        Cannot anyone see the folly of Mass Murdering 400 wee babies.
        Cannot anyone see the folly of Armed Aggression by the United States.
        Watching deaths on your TV leaves out the taste of the victim's blood.
        The victim's screams ring hollow in my mind. Do they in yours?
  • Sep 10 2013: 25 Countries have signed on to this statement condemning Syria
    for using chemical weapons against its own citizens.

    “We call for a strong international response to this grave violation of the world’s rules
    and conscience that will send a clear message that this kind of atrocity can never be
    repeated, Those who perpetrated these crimes must be held accountable.”

    Last week, the statement was signed by 11 of the G20 Members
    1. Australia,
    2. Canada,
    3. France,
    4. Italy,
    5. Japan,
    6. Saudi Arabia,
    7. South Korea,
    8. Spain,
    9, Turkey,
    10. Britain
    11. United States.

    On Monday, the following countries signed on as well:
    12. Albania,
    13. Croatia,
    14. Denmark,
    15. Estonia,
    16. Germany,
    17. Honduras,
    18. Hungary,
    19. Kosovo,
    20. Latvia,
    22. Morocco,
    23. Qatar,
    24. Romania,
    25. United Arab Emirates.

    “We welcome additional countries expressing their support for this statement
    and our continued efforts to hold the Assad regime accountable and enforce
    the international norm against the use of chemical weapons,” the White House
    said in a statement on its Web site, referring to the government of the Syrian
    president, Bashar al-Assad.
    Other than Turkey, a Nato member, no signatories
    from Syria's neighbors with a common border,
    1. Lebanon,
    2. Iraq,
    3. Jordan,
    4. Israel.
    • Sep 11 2013: Israel as a strong neutrality policy with these sorts of things.
      Seeing as both sides of the conflict hate Israel, and that Israel helping one of them would actually de-legitimize the side Israel helped in the eyes of the Arab world, its been decided that its best to just keep out of it unless attacked first.

      Iraq is still recovering from an American occupation. You can understand why they wouldn't want to get dragged into another war with no proper military to speak of. Unlike the US, they're not on the other side of the Atlantic, and vulnerable to counter attack.
      Jordan has the same vulnerability problem. That Atlantic or even not having a border with Syria is a really nice bit of geography to hide behind.

      As for Lebanon, you must understand they're already knee deep into this civil war. Hezbollah, a Lebanon based militia with a more powerful military than the government, has already engaged rebels at Assad's side. Some fighting and terror attacks have already crossed their border. Lebanon couldn't intervene militarily if it wanted, its military is simply not up to it--its outgunned by a militia in its own country, after all.
  • Sep 10 2013: David, thank you.
    I wonder if perhaps this whole idea of Obama's,
    ...to rattle the chains of WAR, was designed to frighten.
    If so, he has been successful.
    Obama see himself as a Savior.
    Obama's history,
    Solving the pirate problem,
    Killing instead of collecting bin Laden,
    Disrespecting other nation's borders and killing their inhabitants,
    Threatening Syria with - 200 Tomahawk Cruise Missiles (WMDs).
    Suggests a small boy playing with toy soldiers.
    Obama by continuing a 45 year practice of NSA surveillances
    ...of the world's communications, including American citizens,
    Suggests a lack of social conscience.
    ...and the sale to other governments of infected surveillance programs.
    Suggests a lack Business Experience and no Customer Care.
    Tunisia was the first to fall in Arab Spring.
    They had recently bought a US infected surveillance product.
    Suggests Arab Spring authors knew what had happened.
    Interested Researchers might put the whole thing together
    ...before the Internet-Paper trails are erased.
    I hope they will.

    I only started to look, and I found Internet-Paper trails,
    ...not conspiracy theories.
    A fun thing for me to do when old and curious.
    I remain only a wee voice, and easily discredited.
  • Sep 10 2013: Lejan . 50+ Thanks Lejan.

    I shot snooker today and made some adjustment to my stroke with some "ugly results".
    The fellow following my shot was on the "out" hole, with his ball about 1 inch away.
    I needed only to hit my object ball and draw the Q-ball maybe 1 inch to the left.
    Instead I left the Q-ball sitting next to his object ball and he won the game.
    The other 5 players gave me the "ugly results" look of distain.

    Next game I lost with an even more "ugly results".

    I wonder, should I give up the game, or maybe fall down on the other shoulder?
    Decisions, Decisions.
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      Sep 10 2013: Ugly results seem to be in the air. I wonder what Obama is thinking.
  • Sep 10 2013: Fritzie Reisner 200+ Thank you, I respond on both subjects.
    In my (now closed) Microsoft conversation, "Kate", another commenter, from Australia,
    was being hounded by another commenter. One of his remarks was taken down or deleted.

    I was reading "Kate's" most recent comment to me, but it only was a partial comment,
    and it disappeared while I was reading it. Soon, all her comments were removed.
    Kind of a strange thing to occur.
    I've looked for her since, but found nothing.
    The hounding commenter may have complained.
    I did seek him out and lambasted him severely.

    He ignored the "Kate" issue, and wrote comments back to me several times.
    I again wrote him, suggesting that he apologize to "Kate".
    Then I ignored his comments.

    A few days later - He sent me an Email, bland - as if nothing at all had occurred.
    It came to me through an unexpected TED Email process - that I was unaware existed.
    I didn't respond to this TED Email process.
    However I did respond to the Email, but did so within my (now closed) Microsoft conversation.
    I again lambasted him for poor manners.
    He continued to Email me a couple more times via his TED Email process.
    He suggested that "Katy" might not even be a lady.
    I've ignored him since.
    When I last visited my (now closed) Microsoft conversation.
    Many of the responders comments were no longer there.
    Maybe I pushed the wrong buttons.
    I will check and see.
    Thanks for bringing the topic up Fritzie.
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    Sep 9 2013: David, I haven't heard that the Syrians are "running" from anyone. Are you talking about refugees?
  • Sep 9 2013: Lejan . 50+
    You've left me so much to research, on this and my Microsoft conversation.
    I've been so lax in doing so. My excuse is a real one. I fell from my front
    porch and injured my right arm and shoulder. It bothers me to type, and
    play 3 and 4 cushion snooker shots, that thankfully I can do in one more hour..
    I did however watch one of the presentations but forgot to write down those
    10 locations that the NSA is building across the nation. The speaker gave
    them verbally, but I got busy doing something and never went back. Sorry.

    I will try to devote not less than 5 OR 6 HOURS in the next few days.
    It all is very important to do, as both these problems of surveillance's
    and the Syrian government's punishment are coming to a head.

    Unless some of us can put everything into the "proper perspective",
    and understandable, and believable, nothing will stop this Syrian
    tragedy and the secret spying from occurring.

    I don't for a moment think we will have any real success.
    ..But to do nothing will be criminal indeed.
    ...I would prefer to be locked away than to watch only and do nothing.

    I thank TED and David Hubbard, and yourself along with many others
    known and unknown, who have a desire for a better world through integrity
    of purpose.
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      Sep 10 2013: Have a speedy recovery, Frank.
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      Lejan .

      • +1
      Sep 10 2013: Frank, you do whatever you wish and whenever you wish with the information I sent you. And getting well soon is what I wish for you!
  • Sep 9 2013: Discussion, you can have. Just don't expect it to lead anywhere other than depression.

    The situation in Syria has gone completely FUBAR long before the US threatened to make a few precision bombings. The country is being torn asunder by government forces and large organized militias fighting it out.
    The chemical weapons are only a small part of the story.

    The problem started back when Syria was first founded. A former colonial province, it gained independence despite there being no real Syrian people. Instead, what you had was a whole mess of minorities, both ethnic and religious, all mixed together under one government (occasionally switched up by military coups, but staying dictatorial throughout).
    In essence, a civil war waiting to happen.

    Fast forward to today, and not a single faction is in full control of the country. The former government is currently the biggest territory holder, at roughly 50%.
    The militias fighting Assad are a diverse group, some with foreign funding, some without, comprised of a mix of army deserters, secular modernist, religious fanatics, nationalist extremists, and all manner of foreign volunteers; most of them hate each other's guts for various reasons. When Assad goes, they'll probably turn on each other like we saw with the militias in Afghanistan once the Soviets left. That's the stage when the ethnic cleansing is expected to begin to some degree or another.

    As all of the factions are either extremist nut jobs, and/or fighting for their homes and lives, a diplomatic solution to the conflict is about as likely as pigs soaring majestically through the air on wings of pastrami.
    If I was Syrian and had the means to flee, I'd have ran too.

    Why the world decided to fixate on the chemical weapons? Who knows.
    They're only a small part of this entire bloody mess, and if it weren't for Obama's insistence of declaring them a red line, they would have been nothing more than another weapon. Syria has bigger problems than mere sarin and VX.
  • Sep 9 2013: This is another collapsing psuedo-country. If you have the wrong parents, the wrong religious views, etc. you may be hurt badly. With the pooring of the World this will explode pther places.
  • Sep 8 2013: David Hubbard, Great Idea.
    The Syrians revolted a few years ago, and when reporters suggested
    that the revolutionaries might ask for help from the United States, they
    replied with a loud NO!!!

    They told reporters for outsiders to stay out of their fight.
    Recorded as news from the streets during bloody riots.
    How correct the remarks might have been? I don't know.

    Since then only Gossip -- Unsubstantiated
    That the United States has been secretly and is today
    ...training Rebels to fight and providing weaponry.

    The US Gov't has 850,000 employees with Top Secret
    clearances, and a so-impotent Freedom of Information Act,
    even a good congressman cannot get a peek at anything.
    So here we sit. Typing NSA collectables into TED conversations.
    President Obama
    First put 4 to 6 destroyers in position to fling 200 WMD missiles into Syria,
    and stationed an Aircraft Carrier and Fleet. He began asking for Partners.

    Then he publicly threatened the Assad led Syrian Government with a
    Military response, appropriate to their use of Chemical Weapons that
    killed and maimed 1400 Syrian citizens.
    He told the American people and the world he had proof.
    But he never showed any.
    There is news from the refugee camps. So we know this part is true.
    Estimates of several million Syrians have already fled the revolutionary WAR.
    They try to live in remote areas, in Syria, and inside refugee camps in neighboring
    nations that are willing to help them. Turkey and Jordan, and maybe others also.
    This is a scenario that has been repeated for many years, because of WARS.
    Mr. Putin claims that rebel outlaw Terrorists did the deed.
    Mr. Obama claims it was Assad's government.
    Mr. Assad says the Other Dude Did It. ODDI Defense.
    The G20 wouldn't agree to help much.
    Cameron sided with Obama and forgot about the UK vote.
    Obama doesn't want to wait for the UN Security Council vote,
    ..because China and Russia will likely Veto.
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      Sep 8 2013: 'So here we sit. Typing NSA collectables into TED conversations.'

      Well said!

      Could anyone leak a keyword list please for us to shape their attention ... :o)
      • Sep 8 2013: Lejan.
        I went back to my old closed Microsoft conversation and found
        most commenters have been removed. I wonder why?

        If you noticed, hardly any American TEDsters commented.
        Seems the issue is decided, by apathy...
        The Spying and Surveillances won't be stopped by public outrage.
        At least on TED.

        By the time Outrage appears, Bluffdale, Utah will already be filled.
        The IRS and the NSA will be contributing to the health and safety
        of the Mormon's Deseret State aka: Utah.

        Jay Leno's tricky question, and Obama's Lie will be memories forgotten.
        Turkey will have expanded and will be in charge of the Middle East.
        Israel will be the United States Energy Tzars.
        The US Military will select our President.
        We will pay the NSA or CIA to rewrite world history, for the second time..

        People will ask -- Who is John Galt?
        ...But no TEDster will know the answer.
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          Lejan .

          • +1
          Sep 9 2013: '...But no TEDster will know the answer.'

          I am certain that there are TEDsters who only read the book which, '... of course, involves orcs', as they listened carefully to John Rogers quote about John Galt.

          And those who did may know about 'the one', who binds them all and remained sensitive about it since childhood.

          This country has never seen so many people awakening from their American dream than it does today. Thats no apathy, thats morning tiredness! Give them some time, some coffee, some more austerity programs, some more wikileaks. Let them have a view more Brad Mannings, Edward Snowdens and Goldman Sachses and they will begin stretching again ...

          They can't just shake off centuries of carrot chasing prosperity hope away in a heartbeat.

          I know it is there, still, and plenty of it, it's just buried and a bit anxious to come out, that's all...

          And some will know how great stories begin, as 'in a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit'. This morning has broken!
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          Lejan .

          • +1
          Sep 9 2013: Frank, there are more than just 2 who choose to blow the whistle while knowing that would ruin their lives in their own countries forever:


          Three came to speak at the 29th Chaos Communication Congress (29c3), the annual congress of the Chaos Computer Club [CCC], which is a hacker community in Germany.

          True hackers by their nature and ethics have no affection for intelligence services and they have the knowledge to defend surveillance and suppressive misinformation, thats why their sources of information are widely spread.

          Thanks to their open and sharing attitude, I was able to get to know about and to listen to Jesselyn Radack, Thomas Drake and William Binney which speeches left me deeply impressed and concerned about whats going on in the 'land of the free' ...

          In case the mentioned term 'Torrorists' is new to you, have a look here:

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          Sep 10 2013: The only time "most commenters" might be removed from a conversation, I believe, is either when all those commenters turn out to be a single individual posing as several people by using lots of pseudonyms or when people are being so hostile/rude to each other that the moderators think they have violated the terms of use.

          Those are the only cases in which I have seen multiple names disappear from a conversation.
      • Sep 8 2013: while the nsa may be reading this, unless people start talking about 'armed revolution' and 'bombs' and other insanity (how's that for keywords) the nsa is not currently likely to do much more than file the conversation away.
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          Lejan .

          • +1
          Sep 9 2013: So all my writing here is just for some dusty hard-drives and collector-bots?

          *bomb* *extremism* *Allah*

          And no real agent is reading through all of my funny English?

          *attack* *parcel received* *72 Virgins*

          How then will I ever be able to make them understand, that they've lost it?

          *AK47* *Iحزب الله* *'plutonium*

          But if YOU, aka THEY, do read this 'live', just give us a sign of good will, or at least a hint if those *keywords* trigger anything ... in you?

          *supercritical* *42*

          end of message ...

        • Sep 9 2013: Robert, thank you,

          I have been surprised that the Seniors at the Senior Center of my
          small community are as one in their opines about Obama's failures.

          If I didn't know better I would call them all Republicans. Not so.
          They for the most part voted for Obama, or after he won election,
          wanted him to have a chance because he was a black man, and,
          most of us white guys, are tired of listening to non-stop bitching
          from those who act down-trodden. I may be more sensitive, as
          my son-in-law is black as the ace-of-spades. He doesn't bitch,
          because, like most men, we are slaves to our women.. Ha. Ha.
          "Time marches on". ..I note that the other minorities have joined
          America society without a whimper. Now that the back-packers
          and plastic-porkers are getting their way, who can bitch about not
          being free?

          I apologize for my descriptive analysis but I am very old and haven't
          learned to change the date on my VCR yet, and I still believe that
          Microwaves fry your brains. And if you call me, don't try to leave a
          message, I don't have a recorder. How can they charge more for gas
          after taking the Lead out?

          The US Gov't has 850,000 employees with Top-Secret Clearances.
          Only 2 of them have come forward to sound the alarm.
          ..Only 2.
          ...Only 2 that we know of.
          ....Scary huh?