Joshua Bowles

This conversation is closed.

What would be the breaking point where you said "enough is enough, time to take a stand!" ?

How far would you have to be pushed, how many liberties taken away and so on before you would stand up and take action?

  • thumb
    Jul 23 2013: Your question is vaguely written, Joshua. Specifically which liberties have been taken away?
    • Jul 24 2013: Lawren,
      Simple answer in the US.
      Our 1st and 4th constitutional amendment rights are trod upon today.
      DIA NSA DHS CIA working with Microsoft Google Verison AT&T BOEING
      and many others. No one bothered to ask Americans whether or not we
      wanted them to spy on us, with our own phones and computers. But they
      are doing so. Every day 24/7. Believe it or not.

      Use Google to find what "Opt out of PRISM" is all about on your computer.
      • thumb
        Jul 24 2013: Well now, are we talking about liberties that have been "trod upon" (illegally, because we still have them), or liberties that have been "taken away." Your original statement still sounds like hyperbole to me.
        • thumb
          Jul 24 2013: As you seem to be a US citizen, did you experience that, lets say, since 9/11, former constitutional rights and privacy concerning matters have changed? Legally changed?

          Do you think that a police-state or other suppressive forms of government do their business illegally, or that they justify their actions by laws accordingly?

          Just by the Patriot Act alone, you lost your liberties regarding your very privacy. It is not just 'tread upon', its taken from you completely and this legally by this single act alone.

          If this is hyperbole to you I wonder what needs to happen to rise your concerns ...
        • Jul 24 2013: Lawren Jones 10+ I am sure you mean well.
          But, what I wrote, although it sounds like an hyperbole, is anything but.

          I refer to CNN's presentation on July 17th's video of the US Congress
          having a hearing with the Deputy Director's of the Department's of Justice, DOJ,
          the DIA, the National Security Agency, NSA. and one other I seem to have
          misplaced at this very moment in my memory.

          In the 3 .8 hour Congressional Committee's hearing, members asked pointed
          questions and received evasive answers, with promises made that a secret
          session would be more appropriate to answer their queries.

          The queries by the Congressmen and Congresswomen were to the point
          of why the NSA and other such agencies were conducting surveillances'
          of US citizens, with partner corporations, collecting said US citizen's information
          from the telephone (cell phone) calls, email messages, and otherwise, that had
          been placed and received, and specifically without the knowledge and/or
          permission of said US citizens, in violation of two of the amendments to
          the US Constitution, plainly illegal acts.

          Hyperbole, not hardly.

          I found upon my Windows7 operating system, evidence of the NSA's Prism
          program that collects my records.

          I am irate, that my 1st and 4th Amendment Rights have been violated.

          I shortened the time yesterday to my own conversation, that you may
          want to read, when a nut-job gave a lady a mean message.
          We don't need that on TED.

          I urge you to read the whole conversation. Make your judgments then.
    • thumb
      Jul 24 2013: it does not have to be all political. I was asking in general, but I see that a lot of people have given it thought.
  • Jul 23 2013: Injustice to me, ones I love or in general, depending on severity.

    A feeling that my effort is worth what I am risking in the fight, or my ability to live with myself if I do not get in the fight.

    A sense that there is potential for success in the fight.

    A sense that I am prepared for the type of fighting that would be associated with the stand.

    A sense of a defined winning scenario.

    Fear associated with not taking a stand.
    • thumb
      Jul 24 2013: Robert I agree with your insight as to when to take battle. Right now I battle with the thought of confronting an employer who's practices managing employees Is truly unethical for a host of reasons. The employer's mantra is one should be grateful to have employment. Surely a stance that is supported by high unemployment rates in my area. Fear is a powerful weapon one can use. I must first put my anger at bay. Now I question myself; will I do more harm than good for fellow employees? Is this a battle that can be won that will ensure fair labor practices in the future? Will I gain any support from fellow employees who are willing to go to battle to implement the necessary changes?
      I remain in a quandary so, I wait for that "sense" you speak to Robert as to whether my actions will support the whole.
      Surely if I only listen to the anger that is conjured when viewing such injustices is solely self-serving.
  • Jul 24 2013: Joshua Bowels.

    Check my TED conversation.
    I've said "enough is enough, time to take a stand.

    Finding PRISM hiding amonst the Office Picture Manager File
    was a surprise. Open it in notebook and read the code.

    NSA's surveillance has been busy. Now to find the DHS's Fusion
    footprint. And there are probably many others too. Looks like
    Microsoft and the rest of the IT bunch are just greedy.
    They sell every call and email we make and get to the Federal
    Government. That is wrong. We are citizens not their slaves.

    The problem is they didn't ask me for permission to spy on me.
    That violates my 1st amendment right, and my 4th amendment right.

    Time the damned President was called to task. This was not the
    change I expected.
  • thumb
    Jul 24 2013: Stand and take up action immediately,

    why wait till the breaking point.

    And have self belief no body can take you the breaking point.
  • Jul 24 2013: From the question and the sub question, I get the feeling you are asking about government limiting liberties. I would expand it to extremist minority groups pushing their agenda and trying to limit my liberties.

    Government I have fought against before and have an idea how to work within and without the system. How to you fight fanatics?
  • thumb
    Jul 23 2013: I agree your question is vaguely written. So far very few people are pushing or taking away my liberties.

    Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma city bomber, claimed he had blown up the building because the government was taking away his liberties. But when they asked at the trial which liberties specifically he could not anwer or name one liberty that had been taken away.
  • thumb
    Jul 23 2013: good question. i think there's a tipping point about to be reached in some countries where, in the past, people have been pretty unmoved by goings-on, largely because they have not been aware of them or else, the goings-on have not been too dodgy.

    in New Zealand, they have just passed laws making it a criminal activity to protest at sea. given our history - namely, the French testing nuclear weapons at Moruroa Atoll, but also because a lot of NZ coastline is now being dredged for iron sand - this is a move by our current government to continue kissing corporate ass.

    i think that many people are too inured to govenrment with agendas that suit the private sector not the people. i also think that people are too busy making ends meet to be able to do much beyond sharing their opinions. of course, democracy is the beautiful lie and people still actually believe that ticking a box every few years is "doing their duty".

    the way i see that particular process is that it is akin to inviting a vampire inside. once they are in, there is sweet FA you can do about their nefarious activities.

    personally, it would be threats against my family and friends that would lead me to protest or take action.

    in the meantime, social media (when used well rather than to share photos of cats wearing glasses or what i'm about to eat for dinner) can be a platform for providing an alternative dialogue to all the propaganda that clogs the media..
  • thumb
    Jul 23 2013: Most people, I think, take on some issues and leave other issues to people who focus on those.

    For example, I might recycle, drive little, and watch my carbon footprint but not write to my congressmembers or campaign door-to-door or by phone in this area.

    In another area of concern I might make sure I am absolutely current on the best thinking and engage personally in all manner of effort.

    Then there are some situations in which almost anyone would step up. Most people will not stand by if they encounter a child being abused.