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Nelson Hyde Chick

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Preventing those that would be bad parents from becoming parents

Take a survey of our thousand most successful people about the parenting they received as children; then compare those experiences with the parenting received from our thousand worst criminals. The successful people will tell stories mostly of decent to great parenting, while the criminals will be telling stories about abandonment, abuse and neglect. Also, all those stories we read about people that were about to overcome the obstacles of poverty to go on to do great thing, they all had some good parenting in their past. Society’s worst problem is bad parenting.

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    Jul 18 2013: Nelson.

    This is Eugenics with a capital E.
    It is the ideology that fuelled the worst kneejerk political action in the 20'th century including the Nazi Holocaust.

    I suggest you do some research and gain some true understanding.
    You may begin with the works of Malthus.
    Malthus was an apologist for the rich just like the Marquis De Sade and Crowley.

    While it is true that early childhood parenting is essential in the formation of a human, it is nowhere as simple as you would like to think.
    Awareness of parenting skills is not dependent on money or legal status - which you will find to be accidents of fashion .. not virtues.

    On the other hand, you can make a career out of disinformation and upper-class self congratulation just as Hitler did.
    But I won't be buying your book.

    If you are worried about poverty and crime, may I suggest you look at wealth justice and discriminatory laws before you take the lazy way out by blaming the parents.
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        Jul 18 2013: Oh, I think it comes through loud and clear.
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          Jul 18 2013: Very difficult to get out of the amygdala when faced with such an obvious threat ;)
          Shall we say: good practice?
          (I've certainly not perfected it)
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        Jul 18 2013: Hey TF,
        The eugenics meme is impossible to kill.
        The best we can do is recognise it as a sign of an immature world-view.
        I do think it's a gate through which any serious examination of sociology must pass.
        But the allure of the quick fix is dangerous in the extreme, and will continue to serve as a blockage to true wisdom.
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        Jul 18 2013: Better to get the bloodied nose here online than in a pub somewhere.
        I think Nelson is getting off easy.
        If there's one thing I know about humans: they will fight to the death for reproductive rights.
        I think that is one aspect of humanity that should not be tinkered with.
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        Jul 18 2013: The worst part of it is that I was raised by a Eugenics fan.
        It was part of my own unquestioned world view until life put it squarely in my face and I had to decide as an adult - and try to actually do something about it.
        The answer on the other side of escaping the eugenics meme is to realise that healing is the answer.
        Doing the damage of sterilisation does not heal the damage of abuse. Healing heals the damage. Nothing else.
        Learn healing, unlearn damage .. that's the only way.
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        Jul 18 2013: thanks for the point about "allowing".
        That's important.
        At the moment we are undergoing an epidemic of intolerance. It's not the first time, won't be the last, but that too requires healing.
        This theme of tolerance goes into almost every aspect of our lives .. it's no small thing.
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      Jul 18 2013: Maybe you are the one that needs to read the dictionary definition for the word eugenics. If you did it would tell you that eugenics is making better humans by breeding desirable genetic traits, and preventing those with undesirable traits from procreating. There is a big difference between taking someone’s reproductive rights away from them because they are short and taking them away because they like to have sex with children. Now you should look up the word euthenics, which is better humanity through a better environment; for instance, we are taller and live longer than we did a hundred years ago and this is because we have better nutrition and medical care, and that is euthenics. Don’t mix up means with motivation.
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        Jul 18 2013: Nelson,

        You are engaging in mythology.

        I will oppose you - your myth is destructive, and I question your motives.

        At the very least you are in the thrall of a seductive meme.
        When you gain further maturity and experience you will understand this.
        For now, you would be advised to let go of the interests you have vested in this destructive promotion.
        You can do better - let yourself.
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          Jul 18 2013: About decade ago a woman was given life imprisonment for child endangerment; she had put on a show for her friends of having her Rottweiler sodomize her preteen son. It did not surprise me that someone could do such a heinous act to a child, what amazed me was that she was allowed to have another child after her first two had been taken from her by the state because she had been convicted of felony child for what she had done to them. Imagine the demons that boy will take into adulthood? If I had it my way she would have had one felony conviction for child abuse and that would have been the end of her reproductive days, and thus two less tortured souls walking the Earth.

          I am sorry that your cognitive skills are so lacking that you can’t even comprehend a dictionary definition between the words eugenics and euthenics. Go ahead and call me a promoter of euthenics, but if you use the word eugenics than you are just showing that you can’t even comprehend a simple dictionary definition, and you don’t want to advertise to the TED community your limited intellectual capacity.
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        Jul 18 2013: You personally knew this woman?

        If you base your thinking on what the media tells you, you will be motivated by the agendas of others.

        I don't need the media because I have personal experience of people from all walks of life and had an opportunity to actually track and trace the dynamics of childhood harm through communities and generations.

        You are not qualified to make any statement on this subject.
        I applaud the question, but you should show some willingness to move on to better understanding.
        Perhaps if you got a job in sociology it would help.
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        Jul 18 2013: Look, here's the thing:

        I thought exactly the same as you do for a long while.

        In the end, I had to deal with it face-to-face .. we are all aware of the damage childhood abuse causes.
        But sterilizing people is not the answer.
        When you see the abuse in person, you are saddened, then moved to compassion. Then you start really thinking about what to do.
        In my case, I chose to help with the healing and nurture of the abused child.
        When you undertake that path, the reaction to sterilise, punish and control the parent is just about revenge, it's not about fixing the problem.
        When I went through the long hard process of learning how to help the healing, all my old assumptions shattered.
        It was not an easy time, and was painful. The worst of the pain is realising how wrong the Eugenic approach is .. how lazy it is, and how the very idea of it got injected into our community by psychopaths. I felt like a dupe and an absolute fool. I would hope you get through easier than I did.
        Harming does not do healing.
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        Jul 18 2013: Re: " If you did it would tell you that eugenics is making better humans by ... preventing those with undesirable traits from procreating."

        Can you read your own words? Isn't this exactly what you propose?
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          Jul 18 2013: I had hoped to skip over that one ;)
          Right now I'm fighting up through my amygdala response to realise that Nelson and I have some value for each other .. and how we can both get it.
          Let me tell you - this subject holds intense pain for me .. it's amazing how fresh it all becomes when triggered. But there is a way forward so long as the details of conflict don't keep it bogged down.
          There's actually a lot to be had from this thread. if we can get on to type 2 thinking.
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    Jul 16 2013: How?

    Two words: Zombie Apocalypse.

    On a serious note, I suggest schools should teach parenting to the students. Every school all over the world. A strict regulation that every teenager is taught parenting should be enforced. This will not only ensure a person learns parenting at a young age and will be able to take care of a child in case of the highly infamous teenage pregnancies; but it will also usher teens like me to add more to what we learnt about parenting as the years go by and by the time, we become parents, we would be highly educated on the subject on parenting.

    BINGO!!! wut-wut?
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      Jul 16 2013: Pne can lead a horse to water, but if the horse refuses to drink? Yjere are people no many chances you give them they will fail because that is just who they are. How do we prevent someone who refuses to learn from handing that mind set down to their children?
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        Jul 16 2013: Teenagers are taught so many things and sexual things is one of the most interesting things.

        Teens/Youths can have classes on parenting. I don't mean teaching 13yr old's, I'm talking about classes on parenting to high school seniors and above.

        We all learn so much in our high school, most of which we forget the preceding year and hardly use it in our life. Parenting classes should help.

        Its not teaching on practically raising a child. Its about teaching the values of parenting and how to be a good parent. Should take hardly a few classes.
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          Jul 16 2013: Horse to water? There are those among us that you can't teach anything. Teching is not the solution no matter how much you want it to be.
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        Jul 16 2013: What makes you say so that we can't do it?
        Can't we even try?
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          Jul 16 2013: That is what I have been asking all along, but nobody wants to answer the following question: What would be wrong in taking the reproductive rights away from someone who has been convicted of a felony that victimized a child, say molestation?
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        Jul 16 2013: Its not only molestors and law breakers that are not good parents.

        There are many people that don't know parenting because either they were not raised well by their own parents or because they just don't know anything about it.

        Teaching it in high schools or colleges will benefit everyone. It will help everyone in the long run.
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          Jul 16 2013: I am sorry, Simon, but just education is not the answer because there are people who refuse to learn, and you would be surprised at the number of people this applies to. But could you answer the following question: That is what I have been asking all along, but nobody wants to answer the following question: What would be wrong in taking the reproductive rights away from someone who has been convicted of a felony that victimized a child, say molestation?
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    Jul 14 2013: In the United States (and most other western countries), procreation is recognized as one of the fundamental freedoms. 'Preventing' someone from becoming a parent is not the answer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_rights
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      Jul 15 2013: Sure it is the answer, if say they have a felony conviction that victomized a child.
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        Jul 15 2013: Which part of 'procreation is a fundamental right' are you failing to understand? No law or court can stop anyone who wishes to from becoming a parent. no matter what their past.
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          Jul 15 2013: And I am saying maybe a child should have a right not to be born to someone who has proven themselves to be shit fot a parent!
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          Jul 15 2013: Here is a possible solution, Lawren: A man is convicted of a felony, and the conviction is thrown out because he agrees to get a vasectomy. This would reduce the people currently in prison, and thus save us money now, while helping reduce future prison populations, and saving us money down the road. We could give the felon the option of freezing some of his swimmers, and then if he turns his life around he can start a family; this would reduce unplanned pregnancies, lower abortion operations and lower welfare customers. Theoretically it could even produce healthier children: As we age we are bombarded by radiation, and this is why the children conceived from the sperm of a twenty year old man is going to be healthier than the sperm from that same man when he is forty. A man in his twenties commits a felony, is convicted, and he gets a pass because he got a vasectomy. He turns his life around and decides he wants to have a child when he is forty, but he uses his sperm frozen when he was twenty, the child more likely than not will be healthier than if he had just used his forty year old sperm.
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    Jul 18 2013: Perhaps if you could understand a dictionary definition?
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    Jul 17 2013: I'm sorry if this a personal question so don't feel compelled to answer it, Nelson Hyde Chick, but I don't have the time to read through what seems to have been a very vigorous and lengthy debate. My question is, did you have bad parents or good parents?
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      Jul 17 2013: Good question. Should angry people be allowed to procreate?
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        Jul 17 2013: I'm sorry. My question was simply meant to establish if the person who introduced this idea for a topic had good parents or bad parents. If he himself had bad parents then he has an obvious bias. Whether his parents were actually good or bad, would he really still insist that people who might turn out to be bad parents shouldn't be allowed to be bad parents, if it were his own parents in question, meaning they couldn't have him.

        It takes a village to raise a child and (this is an oversimplification) a lot of bad parents are just bad children grown-up, and in this sense the concept of bad parenting is representative of the society and its poor value system which leads to so many individuals getting together and doing a rotten job raising their kids.

        Angry people, for better or worse, have as much right to procreate as a Zen Buddhist monk. It's not my place to say they can't. I can treat them with loving-kindness. And maybe learn about my own anger.
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    Jul 15 2013: The cause is not new ... the question has always been ... who makes the decision. In Hitler's Germany would it have been only the Master Race survives ... in old USSR non party members not allowed to reproduce ... in China it was a one child rule ... the pattern here is that the decision was made via politics.

    I worked in a prison and they come from all walks of life ....

    You are by far the most frequent commenter on this conversation and make a emotional argument. You do not wish to discuss ... you wish to have everyone agree with you.

    I agree with Pat Gilbert ... lets agree to disagree.
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    Jul 15 2013: To remove poverty we do not remove the poor.

    Nobody can take away the right of any body from becoming parents.
    Society needs to recognise and help such individuals.
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      Jul 15 2013: wow. big brothers are watching me!

      Lots of bad parenting came from things like drug or alchohol abuse, etc. and other problems larger than the person bent under them
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      Jul 17 2013: Abesh, why should someone be able to retain their reproductive rights after sday they have been convicted for felony child abuse?
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        Jul 17 2013: Such a person should definitely be punished and kept away from the society for the duration the judge decides.
        This is a specfic case (child abuse) , what about other crimes?

        Do you believe in concept of rehablitation ? Do have faith that people can change?

        In some specific cases like child abuse, laws first need to be enacted.
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          Jul 17 2013: I think having children is only part of one's life, but being born is all of one's life. We should be more concerned for the plight of a child being born to somone who is likely to be bad parent than whether someone can have a child. A whole life outweights just part of a life.
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    Jul 15 2013: Who would be the judge of who might be the good parent, and who might be the not so good parent?
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      Jul 15 2013: Your posing this obvious question, Colleen, reminded me of the several members of the TED community who might not be alive had this policy been in force. It also reminded me of the stories many here have told of abusers whose public face would never have suggested what they were doing at home.

      Millions upon millions of fine people have overcome questionable parenting to live good lives and contribute to the larger community. They may not share their stories in public, so people do not know.

      This CDC study reports that about 60% of Americans indicate that they had troubled childhoods. 20% , for example, indicate they had a depressive parent. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlife/parenting-family/2010-12-17-adult-majority-troubled-childhood_N.htm
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        Jul 15 2013: If we had listened to the experts that were warning us about overpopulation in the sixties, and now we were approaching four billion instead of eight billion people, Global Warming would be a distant blip on our radar, the Gulf spill would not have happened and the term Anthropocene would not have been coined. Other than there are just too many people, so what if one person out of a thousand from crappy parents makes it, what about those other 999 that end up in our prison and fill our welfare rolls and live lives of anguish? Also, people that make it from bad parenting don’t do it because of the bad parenting but despite it, and just think how much more these people would have achieved if only they had quality parenting in their lives! Being a parent is the greatest responsibility one can have in their lives, but we allow the most irresponsible among to have the greatest number of children; your average American has a fertility rate of 2.1 children while your average American felon has a fertility rate of 2.6 children. Just because what did in the past was wrong does not mean we should continue doing it that way.
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          Jul 15 2013: Yes, people can undoubtedly benefit from better parenting, but these particular people born into troubled families would not have been born to different sets of parents. The researchers in the CDC study drew the conclusion that various forms of support to improve children's living situations and to assist parents to be better parents are productive pathways to pursue.
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        Jul 16 2013: Fritzie and Nelson,
        You both make some very good points! We certainly would like to see happier, healthier children, and I agree that education could help.

        That being said, I still wonder about who would choose, and enforce the idea of "Preventing those that would be bad parents from becoming parents".

        Nelson, you write..."They pick themselves by commiting felonies that victomize children." Are you suggesting that everyone who commits a felony, not be allowed to have children? Again, I ask...who would monitor that, and how would it be enforced?
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          Jul 17 2013: No, felonies that victomize children. Bank fraud, no. child molestation, yes.
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      Jul 15 2013: They pick themselves by commiting felonies that victomize children.
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    Jul 19 2013: What I proposed would only work in places with a reasonably well working rule of law, and that is not the Middle East. But here is what I will say, being a parent is only part of one’s life, and many people are fine not becoming parents at all. But being born is one’s entire life, and being born to parents that neglect, abuse or abandon you can make your life a living hell. For the aforementioned is why if we error it should be on the side of the child. You see the greatest factor to determine the quality of life for future generations will be how many of them are not born; the UN has a low, medium and high projection of peak human population with 8 billion being low projection and 10 being the high projection, and an Earth of eight billion humans will be a much better place than one of nine billion and infinitely better than one of ten billion. We can, and probably already have, forsaken our children’s future by having too many of them.
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    Jul 18 2013: Here is one solution, Colin: A man is convicted of a felony, and the conviction is thrown out because he agrees to get a vasectomy. This would reduce the people currently in prison, and thus save us money now, while helping reduce future prison populations, and saving us money down the road. We could give the felon the option of freezing some of his swimmers, and then if he turns his life around he can start a family; this would reduce unplanned pregnancies, lower abortion operations and lower welfare customers. Theoretically it could even produce healthier children: As we age we are bombarded by radiation, and this is why the children conceived from the sperm of a twenty year old man is going to be healthier than the sperm from that same man when he is forty. A man in his twenties commits a felony, is convicted, and he gets a pass because he got a vasectomy. He turns his life around and decides he wants to have a child when he is forty, but he uses his sperm frozen when he was twenty, the child more likely than not will be healthier than if he had just used his forty year old sperm.
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    Jul 18 2013: Yes, but if you are born to abusive parents what kind of life is that? Sure there are people that are born to abusive parents that come out all right, but they are one in a thousand, and we should be trying to prevent the pain of the other 999. I have a brother that is sitting in a jail cell in Folsom Sate Penitentiary who has fathered six children by five different women. One child ran away from his alcoholic mother and was killed in Oakland; another was arrested for prostitution in Los Angeles; and the last that he fathered between his second and third strike was born to a meth freak and was born severely retarded; none of the other three even finished high school. Would you want to trade places with any of those six? Also, my brother had plenty of chances to get educated, and proof of this is one of my brothers is a Stanford grad and I did my time at Berkeley. There are people who are too irresponsible to be entrusted with the greatest responsibility one can have in their life, which is being a parent.
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      Jul 18 2013: I actually kinda like this idea. Not really the way it is presented, but it is definitely something to consider as our world population swells to even higher, unsustainable sizes.
      Just saying. Didn't say I agree, but the idea itself I find highly thought provoking.
      -C
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    Jul 18 2013: Goodbye, Mitch.
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      Jul 18 2013: Goodbye Nelson.

      Hope you get through .. it's a hard road.

      Get help where you can.
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    Jul 18 2013: Still rambling, but I can respect your point of view.
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    Jul 18 2013: Mitch, now you are off topic and just rambling.
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    Jul 18 2013: You asked, "What have you personally done to help heal the poor child whose mother made him sodomize a dog?" I don't know him, but if I did I would do for him what I could. But what I am doing is working to ensure that other boys like him will not have to go through the anguish he must be living with each day of his life.
    English is not your native language, correct?
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      Jul 18 2013: I guarantee, there is someone you know who has suffered abuse .. maybe more, maybe less than the dog thing. But no less damaging.
      Start there. It's worthwhile.
      It might even be yourself.
      You can't be a spectator any more.
      This is what you have asked.
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    Jul 18 2013: Beating a child and then being convicted of child abuse is not a trait but a behavior. A trait is being short, having sex wityh children is a bahavior. A trait can't be helped, it is your genes. But the bahavior of molesting a child is something you decide to do. I would never advocate taking someone's reproductive rights away for a genetic trait. But child molestation is a behavior, something one has a choice not to do, and if you are convicted af a felony that victomized a child your procreation days should end.
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      Jul 18 2013: Hi Nelson,

      We are engaged in this . you from the start of the process, and me from having that process a long time into my past. You are sort of like me 30 years ago.

      So what does one do about that?

      We can't just stand on the side-lines and shout to the team on this one .. we have to get on the field.

      I'd be doing you a great disservice to just flip you off, when I know that your motive is your compassion.

      So let's start with that and stop just being male gladiators.

      So lets begin with this:

      What have you personally done to help heal the poor child whose mother made him sodomise a dog?
      What did you do?
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    Jul 18 2013: eu·gen·ics
    [yoo-jen-iks] Show IPA

    noun ( used with a singular verb )
    the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)

    What about the definition above has anything to do with taking somone's reprodcutive rights away because they have a felony conviction for child abuse? Below is the correct definition because not being born to crap for parents would improve anybody's environment;


    eu·then·ics
    [yoo-then-iks] Show IPA

    noun ( used with a singular verb )
    a science concerned with bettering the condition of human beings through the improvement of their environment.
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      Jul 18 2013: Nelson,

      You have to stop hiding behind props and get out here in the flesh - everyone's watching now - and that defence is no longer working.

      I'm not actually your enemy .. but since you are still pretending to be a winner .. all the lumps from here on up are self-inflicted.
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    Jul 18 2013: Mitch, you have real problems understanding a dictionary definition. What I propose has nothing to do with genetics. We will disagree, you can call what I propose evil euthenics, but it is not eugenics. Learn to understand a dictionary definition, it will help you a lot in life. Goodbye.
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      Jul 18 2013: My only problem at this point is to get you across the line.

      You put your hand up for this, and we will get you what you asked to get.

      That's not nothing.

      I applaud your courage in this.
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    Jul 18 2013: I don't need to know the woman. All I need to be able to do is be able to read and understand a nespapre story to know this woman should not been allowed to have children after a felony conviction for child abuse.
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      Jul 18 2013: Unfortunately, that's just you lying to yourself.

      In the face of reality you are falling back on a mythological media politics.

      I was there - you were not.

      The more you say, the deeper you bury yourself.

      I would rather you didn't do that. I would rather you got through it.
      Personally, I have little need for victims, and a great need of fellows.

      I'd rather you stepped up .. I think that your compassion qualifies you .. but your pride forbids.

      We all have that. But .. right from here - me .. and everyone watching, would prefer to see you win over your pride and win the game .. we all know that an improved man will step out the other side.

      And that's beyond price .. worth cheering for.
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    Jul 17 2013: Here is one solution, Arkady: A man is convicted of a felony, and the conviction is thrown out because he agrees to get a vasectomy. This would reduce the people currently in prison, and thus save us money now, while helping reduce future prison populations, and saving us money down the road. We could give the felon the option of freezing some of his swimmers, and then if he turns his life around he can start a family; this would reduce unplanned pregnancies, lower abortion operations and lower welfare customers. Theoretically it could even produce healthier children: As we age we are bombarded by radiation, and this is why the children conceived from the sperm of a twenty year old man is going to be healthier than the sperm from that same man when he is forty. A man in his twenties commits a felony, is convicted, and he gets a pass because he got a vasectomy. He turns his life around and decides he wants to have a child when he is forty, but he uses his sperm frozen when he was twenty, the child more likely than not will be healthier than if he had just used his forty year old sperm.
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      Jul 18 2013: Vasectomy does nothing to the sex drive. A child molester with vasectomy can happily go on molesting children and raping women without concern to get them pregnant. Google "does vasectomy reduce libido" and you will get dozens of links all saying the same thing.

      Killing sick people will lower welfare costs and significantly improve the overall health of society.

      But I'm wasting time. I totally agree with Mitch - it's Eugenics with capital "E" and is not far from the idea of genocide. Not vasectomy or sterilization per se - the forced ones. The rationale for racial profiling and genocide is exactly the same.

      Nothing personal, Nelson. As you mention yourself, this idea comes from anger. Anger is a bad adviser. Set the anger aside and reflect on what most people say here.
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        Jul 18 2013: You should read all the remarks, because if you had you would see a lot that agree with me. You and Mitch are the minority, and that is because you two cannot even understand a simple dictionary definition.
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    Jul 17 2013: My motives are to prevent the irresponsible among us from becoming parents because being a parent is the greatest responsibility any of us will have in our lives.
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      Jul 18 2013: Hi Nelson,

      You seem to be advocating eugenics or euthenics, as you yourself formulate it. Here are two links:

      http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/20/us-women-violence-idUSBRE95J0LE20130620

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivvU6_aaIrY

      Just take a look.

      My question is - how will your thoughts or plans stop this? Will they? Isin't is violence and abuse, parental or not, that are the real issues? Examples you used in this conversation are actually exceptions, what is presented in the links above happens on a massive, global scale.

      When it comes to eugenics - the world has already "tried" that, think of Zeitgeist in the 1930's and before. Both Hitler and Roosevelt were into sterilisation, Roosevelt actually had an ambitious plan to sterilise the unemployed to stop their genes from spreading and stop bad parenting. Do you tolerate the thought of getting a vasectomy when threatened with losing your job?

      I agree that having a good parental figure is beneficial but a child's life expands beyond the family. Because of that I cannot agree that society's worst problem is bad parenting.

      Please read all comments in your conversation carefully and take a minute to reflect.
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        Jul 18 2013: Nothing I propse has anything to do with genetics, so it is not eugenics, but it is euthenics. And euthenics is why you are taller and live longer today than your for fathers.
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        Jul 18 2013: Also, what I am propsing would lessen violence against women by preventing the next generation of rapists from being born.
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          Jul 18 2013: So what you need to look at is the military and governments, as history has shown, to prevent the next generations of them from being born...

          But seriously - preventing anybody from being born will not help, educating the ones who already have been born, not necessarily about euthenics but ethics, might.

          I do not fall for your proposition, it seems to be a radical simplification of the intricate, complicated world of human connections and dynamics, both within and outside the family, and what that does to both parents and children.

          "My motives are to prevent the irresponsible among us from becoming parents because being a parent is the greatest responsibility any of us will have in our lives."

          There are people among us that may seem irresponsible and turn into purest, moral gold the first time they see the eyes of their newborn children.
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          Jul 19 2013: Hi again, Nelson.

          A thought came to my mind about a news story that went viral for a short time on the net some time ago. I'll mention this since you are here to discuss parenting, bad parenting, preventing bad parents from having children and you speak of violence towards women and that your idea would reduce it in future generations:

          I have to warn you that it's cruel. What happened is this - two policemen in on of the countries in the Middle East raided an apartment of a single mother and wanted to rape her 14-year-old daughter. The mother wanted to protect her and offered herself just to prevent the girl from trauma. What happened next was that the mother was imprisoned for adultery and the girl lost the only person that truly cared.

          The policemen probably went home to their own wives and children afterwards, maybe they were great parents there.

          It's s true story.

          My question is - who was the bad parent according to your criteria and who should take the consequences?

          Sorry for any discomfort caused.
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    Jul 17 2013: Poor people can be good parents. All those stories you read about someone becoming something by overcoming poverty, more likely than not they had good parents or at least a good parental figure in their lives. Money, no. criminal behavior that victimized a child, yes.
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    Jul 17 2013: Both
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    Jul 17 2013: It is a solution to not handing down those behaviors to later generations.
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    Jul 17 2013: Nelson, you might also like the idea of having a minimum income requirement to have children.

    How about a "child bearing license" that the government would sell for $10,000 that will be used to support and educate abused and neglected children? "Common sense", right? I think, if such policy is implemented, very soon, most children in this country will be illegitimate, abused, and neglected and the fund will run out of money like the Social Security.

    There is nothing wrong with your idea except that it will not work as you think it should and will achieve nothing but unnecessary suffering.
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    Jul 17 2013: The ones loosing their reproductive rights will be making that decision for themselves. You see, one has to decide to victomize a child. For instance, don't molest a child and it would never happen to you, molest a child, be convicted by a jury of your peers, and you get a vasectomy.
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      Jul 17 2013: If criminals were capable of weighing the consequences of their actions, there would be no crime.
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        Jul 17 2013: And that is why they should be prevented from being parents because they are irresponsible people, and being a parent is the greatest responsiblity one can have in their life, or it should be.
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    Jul 17 2013: I say any felony conviction that victomized a child should end one's reproductive rights. And of course there will be errors, but we should error on the side of a child because having a child is only part of your life while being born is your entire life.