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Carlos Marquez

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How can God exist beyond space and time?

I'm trying to make sense of this "existence" outside space and time. How can something , anything exist yet not exist in space-time? Something completely disconnected from length, width, height, or point in time....
Is this a "truth" that is beyond human comprehension? For maybe this may be one the "truths" that escapes the human intellect. However there are also non-sense statements that require filtering, I believe that existence beyond space and time is one statement that requires filtering.
Does God pops in and out of existence along with virtual particles? Or is God tightly curled up( about a Planck length?) in one or more dimensions of a Calabi-Yau manifold? Or is this existence as useful as the Cosmic Peanut Butter Theory?
Asking if it's possible means nothing, however. The question to ask is, what makes anyone say this? What is the evidence for such assertions? Show me how does anyone got to this statement.
Please as you deploy your arguments don't conflate suppositions with explanations, for these are not interchangeable. Just because it can be imagined, does not make it valid, or even explanatory.
And no scripture as proof.("Behold, heaven and the highest heavens cannot contain Thee... (1 Kings 8:27)) etc, Please and thank you.
Keep the mental contortions civil & courteous, even artful which is always cool. Let's learn from each other!

"You're everywhere and no where, baby
That's where you're at"
Hi Ho Silver Lining


Closing Statement from Carlos Marquez

The operational word in my question was "how" could god or anything exists beyond space and time?, And the core answer after the often heated exchanges is that some folks believe such a fantastic particular possible yet unable to render a demonstrable explanation -why?- because it is impossible.
The incredible thing is that folks believe dogmas as such without questioning. Is similar to lets say slavery or interracial marriage or the prohibition, many in power used (still do ) the Bible to back up such views and today-thanks in a big part by Secular Humanism- are not active policies in our country. Many a Christian believed that all above mentioned stances were correct just as god exist beyond space and time.

I think that as a whole mankind is evolving away from dogmas into new horizons, faith based or divinely revealed knowledge will take a backseat to reason based knowledge. And for that process there is a demonstrable "How".

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      Jul 29 2013: Hello (again).
      I found this a rather odd argument. It reminds me of C.S Lewis's argument from desire. Is that correct? So that due to us seeking mastery, purpose and autonomy it means those are within our grasp? Well those listed (and studied by Daniel Pink in his book "Drive") are achievable. Yet if I desire for something which is logically impossible, say a Square Circle. Then under C.S Lewis's line of argument I am meant for another world.
      I am unsure of what you are trying to argue!
      Kind regards,
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          Jul 29 2013: A fine response! :D
          I guess Science hasn't killed God, because there could still be deity's which act via the laws science has discovered.
          I view, with regards to transcendent purpose, a view rather similar to Michael Shermer. That is there is a transcendent morality and purpose due to humans having shared traits, in other words that due to humans sharing similar traits we have similar needs, thus morality and purpose transcend the individual.
          However I do not believe there is a "transcendent consciousness", due to findings which have impacted me greatly in Cognitive Psychology and Cognitive Neuroscience.
          With regards to "Cogito ergo sum", I am not even sure of that. After-all, I could be a figurement of someone's imagination (or a piece of code). Yet I would still exist in some form (in-fact I have to logically exist in some form), but probably not in the form you think of.
          It is important to note that I find an existentialist belief rather logical in some of these circumstances. That is, some things you just have to accept. It just "is". There is no other reason. Life is no accident, nor does life have no transcent purpose. Life just "is".
          While this quote I think sums up my views rather nicely :
          ""Maybe, just maybe, there is no purpose in life. But if you linger a while longer in this world, you might discover something of value in it, like how you discovered that flower."
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          Jul 30 2013: hi bernard. we may have covered this before but there does not have to be some grand design for us to find meaning in our lives.

          rather than ask what is the meaning of life i suggest asking what meaning do you want your life to have.

          the illusion of some grand plan or purpose may help others. i personally dont need to invent a belief in a god or borrow one of the thousands of god concepts around in order to find meaning.
        • Jul 30 2013: Obey,
          By your own estimation, is meaning found/discovered or is meaning given/bestowed? Similarly does one come to a belief or is belief invented, or could it be both?

          When you speak of a "grand design" or "grand plan" are you referring to science or religion, or both simultaneously?

          Kind regards,
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      Jul 30 2013: i thought the abrahamic tradtions had not perished. yawah is a genocidal vindictive murdurous deity.

      at least according to the bible. hell. global floods. human sacrifices.

      civilisation and .morality has progreesed so i guess religious practices have.

      but the god of the bible is still described in it as a monstor of epic proportions.
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          Jul 30 2013: i appreciate your balanced viewpoint.

          im both relieved that the majority of bible believers chose not to kill adulterers or keep slaves, and amazed at the mental gymnastics to pick and choose and ignore the reality of the evil deity bits.

          even the core christian doctrine of the blood sacrifice required to atone for original sin is cruel, iron age thinking. eternal damnation is the epitomy of evil.

          loving god would just forgive.

          i guess it is both the hulyprocrasy of the selective reading, and thefact that the homoseual killing verses exist and may be used at will that concerns me.

          those that focus on the sermon on the mount, all good.

          your principles of faith seem to me to be simply good principles potentially independent of faith. no issue if a belief system reinforces them, but why not use reason alone to decide how best to live and avoid the mental gymnastics and selective verse picking and hell, and original sin, and the dissonance from the fact it is probably all man made.
    • Jul 30 2013: Theology is hardly an academic discipline. The demand for religion arises from the lack of knowledge with regard the natural world. If ancients 2,000 years ago held the knowledge that we have now then we probably wouldn't ave any theological sectors in society.

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