TED Conversations

Carlos Marquez

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How can God exist beyond space and time?

I'm trying to make sense of this "existence" outside space and time. How can something , anything exist yet not exist in space-time? Something completely disconnected from length, width, height, or point in time....
Is this a "truth" that is beyond human comprehension? For maybe this may be one the "truths" that escapes the human intellect. However there are also non-sense statements that require filtering, I believe that existence beyond space and time is one statement that requires filtering.
Does God pops in and out of existence along with virtual particles? Or is God tightly curled up( about a Planck length?) in one or more dimensions of a Calabi-Yau manifold? Or is this existence as useful as the Cosmic Peanut Butter Theory?
Asking if it's possible means nothing, however. The question to ask is, what makes anyone say this? What is the evidence for such assertions? Show me how does anyone got to this statement.
Please as you deploy your arguments don't conflate suppositions with explanations, for these are not interchangeable. Just because it can be imagined, does not make it valid, or even explanatory.
And no scripture as proof.("Behold, heaven and the highest heavens cannot contain Thee... (1 Kings 8:27)) etc, Please and thank you.
Keep the mental contortions civil & courteous, even artful which is always cool. Let's learn from each other!

"You're everywhere and no where, baby
That's where you're at"
Hi Ho Silver Lining


Closing Statement from Carlos Marquez

The operational word in my question was "how" could god or anything exists beyond space and time?, And the core answer after the often heated exchanges is that some folks believe such a fantastic particular possible yet unable to render a demonstrable explanation -why?- because it is impossible.
The incredible thing is that folks believe dogmas as such without questioning. Is similar to lets say slavery or interracial marriage or the prohibition, many in power used (still do ) the Bible to back up such views and today-thanks in a big part by Secular Humanism- are not active policies in our country. Many a Christian believed that all above mentioned stances were correct just as god exist beyond space and time.

I think that as a whole mankind is evolving away from dogmas into new horizons, faith based or divinely revealed knowledge will take a backseat to reason based knowledge. And for that process there is a demonstrable "How".

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    Jul 25 2013: Friends ET AL,
    Let's take a quick look at history-shall we?-. Zeus, Apollo,Ares,,Aphrodite and the other deity imported from Ancient Egypt- Serapis- worshiped in port cities, Atargatis from ancient Syria, Delos ,Dionysus... there is evidence of charms often cut in precious or semi-precious stone, (had protective power). Figurines, manufactured from bronze, lead, or terracotta, were pierced with pins or nails, and used to cast spells. Curse tablets made from marble or metal (especially lead) were used for curses. Symbols would be placed on the doors of houses to bring good luck or deter misfortune for the occupants within. Greeks also adapted Babylonian astrology( the belief that stars and planets influence a person's future)into their own complex system All faith based systems-faith is blind.

    If billions of people today believed in those deities it would be easier to convince others.

    Do religions have seasons?-there is recorded history- Or are religions just a cultural repression of our developed trait to believe in order to be associated with a particular culture, tribe or group? Heard it over and over and your parents told you it was true...they would not tell you wrong, their parents told them. No proof is needed, your surroundings are proof right?
    Zeus was real to hundreds of thousands who lived and died once upon a time.Were they wrong? And if so according to whom or what? Are we Atheists only when it comes to Zeus? Or do the same core explanations for modern deities could be used to assert Artemis?
    Formal persecution of paganism started with Constantius II,Gratian, Theodosius and others until the coronation of Anastasius, who came to the throne in 491, was forced to sign a written declaration of orthodoxy before his coronation. The reason of force not the force of reason in action. And that's how we inherited Christianity.

    ...Somethin' to think about...

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        Jul 25 2013: John perhaps the point is your God concept is just one of many. Its not special except for you.
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        Jul 26 2013: N Residence,
        The historical point that I was making is: that Christianity used terror ,force & legislation to become the predominant religion as the Roman empire decayed. Incidentally the lessons learned were used later in the inquisition.And that's how we inherited Christianity.
        Millions across the globe today like millions in ancient history chose religion as an integral part of their cultural frame of reference. It is part of the cultural DNA of societies.
        Interesting to note that let's say Ancient Egyptians build majestic Pyramids, we marvel today at their achievements and think little of Osiris or RA,we dismiss them as"not true deities" from our point of view, but if you lived in Ancient Egypt and were born and raised an Egyptian (An Astronomer perhaps?) you would have faith in their deities.
        Or take the Greeks in many senses they gave us the basis for present way of life-we think of them as highly intelligent- except when it comes to their deities-they got it wrong there just like the Egyptians, or Mayans ,Aztecs, Incas,Carthagians, How is that so?
        Could we entertain the notion-crazy as it may seem- that religion is after all a cultural phenomena linked to natural selection? Or one of thousands variations of a deities is right, and if so which? Or are they all just a product of our psyche?
        I'm not seeking to convince anyone to anything, I see posts from folks that have ALL the answers (heading for a Nobel Prize for sure!) . This is TED not a religious Pulpit-that is of no interest to me-. What is important are the questions, and the process we use to answer them. To "win' or "loose" at any of these Ted forums is not what I'm after. When we wake up tomorrow JPL,CALTECH, MIT, Vatican, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Islamics will go business as usual.
        What I'm asking is to look at the scenario outside the box,objectively and see where that leads us to.

        That is all.

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