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Turkish uprising and what the world knows about it...

Our ideas in action now in Turkey. Be inspired and support!
(For TEDsters who want to know what is going on in Turkey and might want to support their fellow earthlings who resist against an authoritarian, oppressive government who perceives everthing that by itself supports a healthy and peaceful planet as sources that should be transformed into money and a government that wants to oppress or make vanish everything, every culture, every worldview, every group that are not like them...)
What is defended here is our common universal values...
What people are standing up for is:
True democracy and human rights, the conservation of nature, the conservation of livable cities, freedom of expression, stopping authoritarianism, minority rights, women's rights, LGBTI rights, animal rights, a free media that is able to show the facts rather than what PM wants, a government that supports human rights instead of pure corporate interests, a government that doesn't lie to the people...

Some links (You can find wide coverage in the international mainstream media. So I am sharing some fieldwork here.):

A little VICE doc:
http://www.vice.com/vice-news/istanbul-rising?utm_source=vicetumblrus
A student explaining why people are fighting:
http://youtu.be/aEapNRakzDI
A good video that shows the first week of the resistance and how it's progressed:
http://youtu.be/59XPBtofVGA
A video showing police violence and people's reactions:
http://youtu.be/899d2F0i0kE
A video from the fifth night. Marching peacefully is enough to get teargas canisters onto your head.
http://youtu.be/Fe20VQ3786U
(You can follow people’s resistance in Twitter searching these hashtags: #occupyturkey #occupygezi #wearegezi)
(There are 4 deaths and many people are seriously injured because of extreme police violence.Some of them went blind,some of them hospitalized with fractured craniums.Police still continues to shoot teargas canisters directly to the protesters and to beat them while taking them into custody.)

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    Jul 2 2013: The New Your Times, July 1, 2013 OpEd piece "The Revolt of the Rising Class" makes this observation: "What is happening in Turkey is not “Les Miserables,” or the Arab Spring. It is not an uprising born in desperation.

    We also find a definition of who the protester are: "mostly young, students or relative newcomers to the white-collar work force who have outgrown the fearful conformity of their parents’ generation. With their economic wants more or less satisfied, they now crave a voice, and respect."
    Bill Keller, its author, makes several points that apply to this discussion.

    1. "The protesters in these middle-class revolts tend to be political orphans, leaderless, party-less, not particularly ideological. To reach a new equilibrium, either the rising class must get organized, or the ruling class must get the message, or, ideally, both."

    2. "The United States has long embraced Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as the model of a modern Muslim reformer. The Turkish prime minister, during his decade in power, has tamed the army of its coup habit, raised the standard of living dramatically, offered an olive branch to the separatist-minded Kurds and demonstrated — alone in the region — that Islam is compatible with both free elections and broad prosperity. "

    3."By fostering economic growth, by keeping the army in its barracks — and by not messing too much with secular lifestyles — Erdogan has won some grudging support from the worldly elite that originally viewed him and his more pious Islamic following as a lurch back to the Ottoman Empire."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/opinion/keller-the-revolt-of-the-rising-class.html?pagewanted=all

    "One possible outcome is that those unhappy with Erdogan will find an avenue into politics, and give Erdogan the challenge he deserves."
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    Jul 1 2013: Are these events in Turkey a protest or a revolution? Or is it an uprising? It appears what you are seeking and stating the events are about is for an "Ideal" perfect condition/society and country. Really? And the plan is to achieve this by protest and riots? Yes, it is possible to achieve most of these things from your wishlist, but it is over time and with careful and intelligent process and lot of diplomacy and sacrifices. Above all this can only be achieved with cooperation, and focused large scale support with an actual solution on hand.

    No Country is perfect and often there is no unity amongst its people. A protest without a clear defined solution, unity or purpose is nothing but noise.

    From the various reports it only appears that there are different groups protesting with different agendas and as usual the only true result is mischief, destruction of public property and no clear solution to problems. Also each group protesting is different in their process. Some of them are violent and the forces cant tell the difference. And in such a situation any country will send in the forces to stop this and bring in civil order. It happens in every country and even in USA.

    So stop reaching out to other countries and people for support. Don’t make a mockery of your great country and history. Get your own heads to gather, propose an intelligent solution, gather support and make consistent gains towards progress. Not destruction. If you think the current govt is not the right one, ask yourselves if you have any better alternative? If not, work towards that. It is great to ask for democracy, but the greater question is can the people handle democracy as a unified nation?
    It is absolutely futile to point fingers, complain and just protest. If you really want change, ask yourself what are YOU doing about it? If you cannot device a solution or at least be a part of the solution, then stop protesting and get back to the drawing board
    • Jul 3 2013: "So stop reaching out to other countries and people for support. Don’t make a mockery of your great country and history."

      I believe that in our Global community, people have the right and should be informed about what is happening in other countries. Most of the times this information is one-sided.
      And I wonder what the world would be if countries or simple civilians didn't reach out for other countries or other people for support.
      But my biggest concern is what the world would look like if other countries did not interfere in one country's internal affairs...
      What would Cuba, Ecuador, Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Egypt, Korea, Pakistan, Greece, Rodesia, ...... look like?
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        Jul 3 2013: I guess you missed my point. My comments were for the specific events in Turkey. The events in Turkey doesn’t have a unified or a focused face/purpose. It is all over the place where there are several groups with different agendas. It is not a revolution or like the "Arab Spring".

        With regards to how other countries that you have listed would have turned out without foreign interference? Mostly they may have turned out to become better I would say. Just like Tunisia, Egypt etc did, on their own efforts. Each country must learn to solve their internal problems with proper process unless in dire circumstances where external help is absolutely essential. Darfur, Rawanda etc.

        USA., UK or any of the other bigger nations solve their own internal problems without other countries involvement. In fact they do not want other meddling in their internal affairs. Other countries too have the same potential, but they need to first learn to exercise that. “Progress” is not an entitlement, it should be worked for and earned.

        But my point regarding Turkey was different meaning that the riots there is due to political indifferences against a govt. that has probably done more good for the country than otherwise. Also it appears there is no viable progressive candidate in opposition. There should be a valid, sound, and intelligent solution devised internally to solve the differences and progress towards a better government as opposed to turning it into an international propaganda as though it was revolution or an uprising like the case in Egypt. After all it all began with cutting down some trees which the court had stopped pending a decision. This cannot be called a revolution and doesn’t warrrant a political rally for international support.

        That’s just how I see it.
  • Jun 16 2013: Perhaps i could not express my concerns truly. These guys do not want to preserve the rights of women, society etc. if they minded this, they would have not mess up all the streets. Turkey is very different from the other middle east countries. We have fair elections, we believe democracy and in last decade she has developed enormously both politically and economically. erdogan has ruled the country since 2002.I will give some statistics for this perıod. Inflation rate has decreased from 60 per cent to only 7 per cent. 2001 year was a crises year for us economically. no one even a man coming from the World Bank saved our economy. Our economy has boosted while other europeans has gone down the recession. Average national income per person increased from almost 3000 dollars to 11000 dollars . everyone can easily say or wear what he wants. actually not everyone we still have a headscarf problem, that is muslim women who want to use head scarf cannot wear. The protestors are against headscarf and for years and years although we have a prime minister like erdogan we could not overcome. when new steps to resolve this are attempted, some powerful minority groups prevent those attempts.
    these protestors dont want to risk their chance to win in elections because they represent mostly 10 per cent of the public. They burn everything they see. they attacked one women , 25 years old, having 5 months old baby due to wearing headscarf on june 1. the baby was also injured. can you say that these protect the rights. If you follow the news from cnn or bbc channels, you see the exaggarations of what happens. The journalists came to turkey before thises events took place. Is it still nonsense?
    A big game is playing. Actually i do not want you to understand all these..these protestors wants to show the country as it was in a war. the reality is not like that. 80 per cent of people do not support this.
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    Jun 25 2013: Turkey is always on my list of coolest places to visit. The wonderful people will prevail. Even though Erdogan's government was elected 3 times. They have no right to push agendas that clearly do not have broad support. The totalitarian response to the legitimate protests is a clear sign they have overstepped the bounds of their mandate. Does that sound familiar? It's clear that they are attempting to ride a "misperceived", or "manufactured" wave of "fundamentalist" sentiments by legislating stricter laws against alcohol. The destruction of one of the few remaining outdoor public spaces in Istanbul is a sign of the same fascist, crony corrupt attitude at work in major cities everywhere. Big developers, AKA banks will use any method necessary, mischaracterizing civil protests even inciting religious, or sectarian violence to acquire land to privatize, and exploit. That's been the tools of the trade of fascists for a long time. The fascists get their hands on the reigns by installing their pigeon, then they use the tools of incitement to make a scene, a smoke screen. That in turn provides an opportunity for more repression, and theft. What a scam huh? Save "secular" Turkey for all the world to share, not for corruption, divisiveness, and fundamentalist, fascist poison. Open space is essential to human development, and health of any city. Let in the light. Erdogan is finished. Fascism is at the core of it all, not just in turkey. It's at work everywhere. Don't ever forget that.
    • Jun 25 2013: Well said!!! Wish I could give you more than one thumbs up!
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      Jul 2 2013: So Peter........quote......."Turkey is always on my list of coolest places to visit."

      Curious ......Why? and the other places are and why?

      And as for ........" Fascism is at the core of it all, not just in turkey. It's at work everywhere. Don't ever forget that."

      Must be a sh*t load of fascists in the world then?

      Go ponder this Peter.................... under a 'true' democracy fascists have the right to exist.................. so does EVERY other ism or ideology.

      Last time I looked even the Muslim hardliners were using or at least attempting to introduce Sharia Law via democracy and then once Sharia Law became the order of the day, democracy as you and I know it, would no long exist.

      Cheers........................
      • Comment deleted

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          Jul 2 2013: Well Peter ..........have to agree with you on a considerable number of points there.

          And accordingly Chomsky's line.......................

          "The general population doesn't know what's happening and it doesn't even know that it doesn't know"

          rings true!

          Further, I suggest it begs the point ..................."People get the Govt they deserve!"

          Cheers.........................
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        Jul 5 2013: I'm sorry I didn't fully reply to the specifics of your question. The tendency in the digital age is to rely on short bleeps of sentences to explain highly complex issues. It's human nature for us to simplify our world, and a disciplined art to respond to this complexity in "Spock Like" precision.

        Turkey is well known to travelers of open mind, and experience as a friendly, and exciting place to be. Life in Turkey is like being in a time warp of the ancient, and the modern. Everywhere you look, the processes of human social transformation is like a kaleidoscope of wonderfulness. You're cruising in a high speed catamaran, one minute, then walking through the ancient Hagia Sophia 1500 year old cathedral turned mosque, then turned to a museum. Theres an old Irish saying, "You have the map of Ireland on your face". That goes for Turks as well. Everywhere you look the faces of the people reflect many thousands of years of Conquest, war, social struggle, religions, trade, learning, and all the amazing things that came to become modern Turkey. There are tens of thousands of obvious signs of Greek, Roman, Persian, Christian muslim, and even ancient animist archaeological sites. It's insanely cool unless one is brain dead : ) How can you not love people with a tradition that requires you to share a cup of tea out of hospitality and polite kindness to strangers?
  • Jun 24 2013: I've just spend who knows how long reading through everything that's been written here and I'd just like to point out a few things. I actually live in Turkey, I've been here 6 years so I feel like I'm "qualified" to say something about this matter, however I do understand that as much as I love this country, it is not "my" country, as much as I wish it was.

    These past few weeks have been amazing, normally people here don't speak up, or if they do it's not heard, and to see the people stand together, to see old women beating pots and pans, to see communities come together, all of it has been amazing. I'm so proud of the people who stood up for what they believe in, even in the face of tear gas and beatings. What you see at gezi park is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Theo however did make a good point (as much as it kills me to say this) there is a problem of what comes next? AKP win elections by majorities because there is no strong opposition, the other half is too divided and there is no one group that can take on the popularity of the AKP. As you know though, these protests are about so much more than just a park or just about RTE, for every person you ask you will recieve a different answer for why they are there.

    I do think that there should be freedom of speach, and I do think that the PM has been to heavy handed, but in a country this big changes cannot happen over night. The people will get tired and they will give up, I wish this wasn't so but I can't see how else it can end. Turkey was founded as a secular state, this is a value that is so important but it seems to be becomeing something that certain people forget, when a country moves forward the worst thing it can do is to then step back, and to me this is what seems to be happening here.

    I would be interested to know what you think would be the best way forward?
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      Jun 24 2013: All excellent points and well stated.
      I currently have a friend, a journalist, in Istanbul, and he has said that he was reminded of the Occupy Wall St. movement, where thousand of people across many cities rallied for change. The demands of the OWS protesters were also undefined, and because of this it was an inclusive movement.
      But the minute the protests became violent and destructive many turned away, and the movement was no longer viable.
      At some point, in the very near future, Erdogan must step down. When that happens there will be a vacuum in the countries leadership. Who will emerge to lead the country toward a more democratic and peaceful future?
      • Jun 24 2013: This is the problem, millions of people love RTE because he has done great things for this country, but while he may have done great things for the country I don't think he's been good for the people. After all what is a country without it's people?? But after he leaves who can fill the gap? As a nation Turkey is very diverse, with different coultures and beliefes and unfortunatly that is why there is so many smaller political parties, none of which I feel could get a majority. Obvioulsy Turkey is an Islamic nation, but it seems to me that they are using people beliefs to affect their political views and it's not right.

        I agree that he needs to go, but I worry what will happen next. I have been worried with this whole situation as the only outcome I can see are: 1) the people give up (obviously not good) 2) RTE resigns (lets be fair that's never going to happen, look at any of his speaches and you will understand) 3) millitary coup (again, obviously not a good idea, plus the army had now be weaked to make this impossible) 4) the civil unrest get's worse and thousands get injured or killed

        I really don't think it's right though to compare this movement to OWS, it's too different, the same applies to people saying it's a Turkish spring, it isn't. I don't think it would be fair to classify thousands of people under one tag, or one word. Look at almost any country in the world and you can see similar movements, people from all walks of life now standing up as one, demanding equality.

        Unfortunatly there's no magic wand to fix all these problems,

        Be it OWS, Arab Spring, the Turkish uprising, the Brazillian protests, everyone just seems to want a better life. The world has become too unbalanced and people just want what should be their right as a human being.
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    Jun 9 2013: Only media can make a minority fighting in Turkey like if it was the whole turkish people. I'm definitely against violence and I don't accept it under any circumstances, but let's be honest, how was Turkey before Erdogan ? Economic, healthn education ...... let's face it, they're calling for an Attaturk turkey, didn't Attaturk torture and killed people ? why all these lies.

    In Erdogan's era, the woman took back her right of practicing her religion and her belief, why are they fighting that ?
    are they fighting for their rights, or against Islam ?

    So many questions, and so many answers ..... and so many sadness in this hypocrite unfair world.
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      Jun 9 2013: Read this again please: "What people are standing up for is:
      True democracy and human rights, the conservation of nature, the conservation of livable cities, freedom of expression, stopping authoritarianism, minority rights, women's rights, LGBTI rights, animal rights, a free media that is able to show the facts rather than what PM wants, a government that supports human rights instead of pure corporate interests, a government that doesn't lie to the people..."
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        Jun 10 2013: That's an awful long list Anon. Would it not be wiser to tackle these thngs one at a time? It is the height of hypocrisy to demand of any government that they make so many changes immediately.

        I have never seen that happen any where on this planet. Such things are only done in civil war. Look at Syria, is this what you want to happen in Turkey? I think someone needs to lead people to calm down, they are obviously excited. You should be doing that in Turkey. As you offered, we are more well informed than you on what is going on there.

        Help your people. Break this thing apart and focus on real change in the proper atmosphere and setting.
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      Jun 9 2013: There is not a historical aspect in this uprising. It's about very basic human rights that every human being should ask its government... People from very diverse backgrounds, political preferences, ages, minorities, religions, sexual identities and orientations have come together, so diverse that it is logical to say that there is something (or things) which is common for all these people to rise up against. There are many devout muslims among the crowd too...
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      Jun 9 2013: And fyi, the gov. is torturing and killing people right now.
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      Jun 9 2013: And there is no real media in Turkey too. They are either direct supporters or strictly under the influence of Erdogan. Our media is Twitter, FB, Android etc...
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      Jun 10 2013: I would like an answer to Abdelbari Khiar questions also Anon. Turkey has come a long way from the other side, why throw all that away? Why not simply vote him out of office?

      I understand when you vote you are voting for a party of people but isn't there ways to determine who will be in these parties? The last election, 85% of eligible voters turned out and voted. Are not the people the people currently in office put their by the majority of the Turkish people? Can't the problems be dealt with in a civil manner, instead of war in the streets?

      To be truthful, I am not very sympathetic with the protesters. I don't like authoritarian methods used against people but such things happen here in the US as well and yes, people get hurt or killed. That is why we have laws in the first place, to create a civil process where these types of differences can be resolved.

      Like I say, we have journalists on the ground in Instanbul, they are watching and, hopefully giving us the real scoop of what is going one.
    • Jun 10 2013: Abdelbari Thanks for explaining things to this American. I am a little surprised that Turkey is not secular, but people should have their own country that represents their own belief. However, I personally believe in tolerance. I can't believe that true Islam faces any real threat in Turkey.
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    Jul 8 2013: Let's give this a little bit of a different perspective!
    I saw this man live in Sofia a few weeks before he went to play at Taxim Square.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_-w0SHKTZk
    I think it's worth noticing his effort to help protesters.
    He was almost arrested and his piano was taken away.
    Still he continued playing for Turkey in his home country.
    I hope he brought some peace to your people. :)
  • Jun 27 2013: You have all my best wishes for succeeding in bringing down tyrranical oppressors wherever they are!
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    Jun 25 2013: Anon Occupy 50+

    0

    TED TranslatorAssociate
    1 day ago: I don't have to explain anything (but you have to because you have too many assertions)... I am neither a leader nor a spokesperson for anybody. If you've read and/or watched what I have shared before and if you have the slightest understanding or empathy for people who are fed up being oppressed, not being able to practice their basic human rights because of a leader's personal desires and his economic vandalism you should have some explanations for not seeing all these facts...

    Btw: Where there is no media freedom there is no democratic elections which is exactly the case here...

    **************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

    Firstly Anon..................YOU DO have to explain any claims or assertions you make otherwise they are worth squat and your nothing but a hypocrite expecting others to do the 'dirty work' !

    And further let me suggest the elections in Turkey are NO more undemocratic than those held in the Western world!

    Also suggest that when people start pedaling 'empathy' as a valid reason as opposed to logical and rational solutions to diverse issues they are scraping the bottom of the barrel of intellectual bankruptcy and are just trying to pull on emotive heart strings because they cant come up with any productive working solutions to the problem.

    You talk of 'oppressed people' yet they have a democratic election process................................. please explain with sources and facts instead of emotive dribble?

    And while your at it maybe could could enlighten us by telling us what EXACTLY entails 'basic human rights' and who's job it is to provide these 'basic human rights'?

    Now that would be some 'FACTS' we could all ponder on !
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      Jun 25 2013: Firstly Blade Runner, "YOU DO" have to read objectively and understand what you've read at least to some extent, "YOU DON'T" have to put words and sentences out of context and put them into a context you desire and "YOU DON'T" have to blather the next time so I can take you seriously and answer. Without this precondition of a decent dialogue anything would be a waste of time.
      Since this is my first encounter with your nonsense I am going to try to provide you with some answers which I hope will make you think more.

      "Firstly Anon..................YOU DO have to explain any claims or assertions you make otherwise they are worth squat and your nothing but a hypocrite expecting others to do the 'dirty work' !"
      Of course I have to explain my claims with sound arguments. Who said the opposite?
      I have written " I don't have to explain anything (but you have to because you have too many assertions)" in my dialogue with Mr. Hoppe specifically for him because he was the one with a lot of assertions but without explanations. It wasn't a general statement. And you would have known it if you had read it carefully and/or objectively.
      >>>
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      Jun 25 2013: "And further let me suggest the elections in Turkey are NO more undemocratic than those held in the Western world!"
      No, I can't let you suggest that... :) What kind of a crooked inference is that? Firstly, "the west" is not a single entity. The political culture and the elections are not the same in US and in Europe. It is not the same process even among the EU members. Apart from this, if the elections in "the west" are not democratic enough and if the elections in Turkey are no more undemocratic than those, then, this line of thought can't lead you to the conclusion that things are ok. in Turkey. It should lead you to "the political system in the western world is quite a mess now and doesn't answer people's needs and that is quite the same case in Turkey too".
      Secondly, yes IT IS much more undemocratic because we don't have a free media. And you would know that or at least have questioned it if you had read my previous posts or some international media coverage about that. (Currently Turkey leads the list of countries which put journalists in jail.) And I guess you know what it is impossible to talk about when the media is not free?

      "Also suggest that when people start pedaling 'empathy' as a valid reason as opposed to logical and rational solutions to diverse issues they are scraping the bottom of the barrel of intellectual bankruptcy and are just trying to pull on emotive heart strings because they cant come up with any productive working solutions to the problem."
      There is noone here, at least not me, who suggests only empathy to understand and solve complex issues of our world. You are the one who is alarmed to just hear the word "empathy" and automatically writes an out-of-context story about it. I am for rationality too. I also think that mirror neurons have an important function in the evolution of our species. Without empathy it would be very hard to imagine the human as a moral animal.
      >>>
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      Jun 25 2013: "You talk of 'oppressed people' yet they have a democratic election process................................. please explain with sources and facts instead of emotive dribble?"
      Yes. The undemocratic one...
      I have shared a lot of links (news, videos, etc.) where you should have understood from the "emotive dribbles" of the people what kind of an oppression we are talking about. If you are STILL not able to do that that's not my problem. Go, google, read stuff, BBC, CNN etc... I am not a news agency tailored for you.

      "And while your at it maybe could could enlighten us by telling us what EXACTLY entails 'basic human rights' and who's job it is to provide these 'basic human rights'?"
      Google for "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" and/or "European Convention on Human Rights"... I think everyone is responsible to provide these rights where necessary, especially the governments...
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    Jun 14 2013: Noam Chomsky's call to the World about the Taksim Gezi Park Resistance:
    http://youtu.be/o1WrOIgQBHM
  • Jun 12 2013: I study in the south of Spain and it's been very well covered here, we have two friends from Istanbul who organised a small protest with banners to show that people are supporting the cause all over the world. This isn't an overnight thing as they have talked about the issues the country has months ago, when I mentioned that although it's an impressive fight nothing much can be done surely in a democratic country, she didn't have much else to say besides repeating ''democratic'' with air quotations
  • Jun 11 2013: To start with I have great respect for the Turkish marijuana/hashish regulation if we had that less people would drink and drive going to the bars and less cases of lung cancer.
    It seems like a lot of your demands are on women's reproductive issues, which is great. Is RU-486 still safe in all it's trials? Don't you think a sensible limit of third trimester excluding cases of when it can't be carried, life of the mother, rape, incest etc.? Just to set a deadline for usual abortions third trimester or when the brain begins to form, something?
    Is the Gezi Park Resistance ready to endorse a party next year an opposition party to make their voice heard legitimately?
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    Jun 10 2013: This is how you create misinformed citizens. 6 big national newspapers with the same headline, word for word! http://showdiscontent.com/archive/gezi-parki/2013-06-07/img/0607-ayni-gazete-kapak.jpg You can't talk about a democratic environment and democratic elections if the media is not free and if the citizens are misinformed.
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    Jun 10 2013: We had an uprise in Bangladesh couple of months back with a demand of bringing war criminals of 1971 under trial. Interestingly that uprise was intiated by a small group young online activist. Being on ground observed how the MEDIA and Politicians twisted the whole thing at different times. One shocking point for many of country people was that Turkish government stood beside the WAR criminals!!

    What I feel about recent Turkish uprise is that ,it's not a mere protest of saving a park only , rather it's overall rejection of the regime now in power in Turkey.
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      Jun 10 2013: The current government is EXTREMELY and inhumanely pragmatic. One day they can look like as if they are against the oppressive dictators in the middle east but the next day they can support the war criminals in your country for some reason they think they can somehow benefit from.

      Yes, it's not a mere protest of saving a park. For a lot of people it is an overall rejection. For some other people it's a big demand to change a lot of things, approaches people are fed up with...
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        Jun 12 2013: As an distant observer of events unfolding these days in Turkey , and having bit of historical background of socio- political system , I feel it's a struggle between medieval fundamentalists vs modern humanist forces of Turkey. What you think about my observation ?
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          Jun 13 2013: Yes Salim, you are kind of right but still I would rather call it a big reaction of the people who can't stand the oppressive tune and the destructive actions of an exclusionist, otherizing, polarizing and a hyper-capitalist government... It's easily observable that the protesting crowds are comprised of people with quite a lot of diverse world views and lifestyles. There are many devout muslims among the protesters too who may not be for a secular social life or maybe a government too. As I see it, the unifying aspects are the characteristics of the gov. that I have mentioned above.
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        Jun 14 2013: Hi Anon
        You might have better insight about what is happening there.
        One point , I want shed light on is...devoted muslim doesn't mean , fundamentalist extrimist Muslim. My country is predominantly Muslim (85%+) , but may be less than 1% are fundamentalists extrimist, rest either have secular view or just keep religious practice at private level instead of mixing it with politics , and some of them are supporters of fundamentalist though they themselves are not fundamentalist.

        The War Criminal issue that referred in my earlier post are from the Fundamentalist group.....and current regime of Turkey did some diplomatic activity in favor of those WAR criminals in my country who did all kind of heinous crime against humanity in 1971. That activity of Turkish Govt was hugely resented by people in Bangladesh who are now fighting against all political forces here to bring those criminals under trial.
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          Jun 23 2013: "devoted muslim doesn't mean , fundamentalist extrimist Muslim" Totally agree on that.

          I also wonder whether you know the reason of the turkish government for that diplomatic activity in favor of the war criminals.
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    Jul 3 2013: And some more Middle Eastern 'Democratic' foreplay the world has to contend with!

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/17862147/egypt-army-topples-morsi/
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    Jun 28 2013: A Digital Collection of Gezi Park Articles
    http://readlists.com/919501ec/
    http://readlists.com/82b241bd/
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      Jun 30 2013: And why would it NOT be correct to state that the data you put up is far from a balanced/complete picture of the actuality and your data is just as selective (like you claim the Govts is) and just a blatant case of you, like the Govt pushing YOUR agenda.

      Btw what exactly is YOUR agenda?

      Cheers...............
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        Jul 1 2013: " the data you put up is far from a balanced/complete picture of the actuality"
        Can you show me your evidence that "my data" is far from a balanced/complete picture of the actuality? And if so, why would I share BBC's Q&A or the readlists with tons of links from different sources? Do you think that VICE has some secret interests in reflecting the incidents pro uprisers? (The first link I have shared in the introduction...)

        Do you think that exposing the human rights violations of the govt. that are barely covered by the media harms forming a satisfying picture of the reality? Would you prefer not to see those?
        Are you aware that what I share here is mostly content that the majority of the Turkish public can't reach because of the corruption of and the pressure on the media? Don't you think that it is very important that these things are exposed?

        Do you really understand what "the general population doesn't know what's happening and it doesn't even know that it doesn't know" means?
        My agenda is being able to live in a democratic environment where people are not oppressed because they are different than the type the PM wants to see, where every piece of nature is not sold...
        What exactly is your agenda with Chomsky on your profile pic but with a total anti-chomsky understanding of things?
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          Jul 1 2013: Suggest there are always other agendas at play besides yours and theirs!

          So you think/believe your 'Savior complex' is the salvation of the Turkish people?

          Suggest this is exactly the point and UNDERSTANDING of the 'whole', of the 'whole everything' on this planet.......

          ****************************
          "The general population doesn't know what's happening and it doesn't even know that it doesn't know"
          *****************************

          Like it or not ...............most people are sheeple and their lives are controlled and taken up by the basic needs to survive via food and shelter and in the Western world they have the 'luxury' of consumerism to keep the wheels of capitalism turning.

          Further suggest that to Govts/politicians of ALL persuasions the people/sheeple are just a commodity to utilize to keep them in power and they do their darnedest/despicable-st to stay in power ............................do your history.

          Suggest that my 'agenda' (if you want to call it that) with the Chomsky avatar line is to generate some thought/ponderings.

          Appears to be working............................ :)

          Suggest I fully understand that Chomsky 'line' but as for believing in any Chomsky ideology as being the silver bullet is another camp fire discussion, another time, under Orion.

          And you perchance are trying to stir peoples 'consciences' because you see yourself as a do good er , have a savior complex or just for the ego glory?

          The evolution of this planet has been a continuum of conflict and conquest and it ain't going to change anytime soon!

          Suggest in two generations after your death (unless you have perchance assassinated a President) your existence will have been lost in time.

          Suggest you make the most of your time here, because nobody else will do it for you!

          Found that the mortgage of real life cures youthful idealism quickly!

          Death is not an achievement!

          How's that for a pedaling out some one liners.................would Chomsky be proud of me? :)

          Cheers..
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    Jun 25 2013: The video shows policemen beating protesters who hid in a parking garage in the Mediterranean province of Antalya. Police did not detain the protesters, but released them after using violence without any official procedure:
    http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/video.aspx?pageID=428#.Ucm7TdfmXMQ
    http://youtu.be/K25hNF0Y8xY (If the first link doesn't work)
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      Jun 26 2013: I post this because it is from the same news source. Anon Occupy claims the media in Turkey does not allow for free elections but clearly this source has presented both sides of the story.

      http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/no-one-can-tell-us-who-to-fire-turkish-pm-erdogan.aspx?pageID=238&nID=49429&NewsCatID=338

      Arguing that protesters knew that they would not be able to gain local support, Erdoğan argued that they had directly addressed the international media from the beginning. He added that the events were reported in an "exaggerated" manner abroad.

      “Right from the start, some from inside and outside spread in a very systematic way that these demonstrations are completely innocent, righteous, and that the police was using violence. Planned operations were carried out in social media. Some media institutions in Turkey participated as head provocateurs. The international media also took part in these operations,” Erdoğan said.
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        Jun 28 2013: "Anon Occupy claims the media in Turkey does not allow for free elections but clearly this source has presented both sides of the story."

        No, that is not exactly what I claim. Because of PM's totalitarianism the media (including Hurriyet) is under intense pressure (among other many non-governmental entities) which means that the majority of the people (electorate) can't get informed about the facts and incidents of their own country and they get stuck in an illusional perception and a viewpoint that are designed and constantly manipulated by the government. You are just distorting stuff to suit your view.

        Erdoğan would really be proud of you. :)
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          Jun 28 2013: Do you think the American people are informed about the facts in the U.S.?
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      Jun 29 2013: Even in Turkey the people are divided about the protests, families are divided.

      "My uncle says that I shouldn't let the protesters influence me. They are the "loud ones," he says, but they don't represent Turkey. The "quiet ones," he and the majority of Turks, he says, stand behind Erdogan. They are the 50 percent, the loyal voters of Erdogan's Justice and Development Party (AKP)."

      http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/turkey-unrest-a-family-split-between-erdogan-and-taksim-a-907619.html
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    Jun 25 2013: Amnesty: [VIDEO] Update on police violence in Turkey
    http://goo.gl/XjgZr
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    Jun 23 2013: Re: the aim of this conversation is having a conversation about the events in which I try to inform interested TEDsters

    You are an anonymous source that is partial to the protesters.
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      Jun 25 2013: "You are an anonymous source that is partial to the protesters."

      Exactly and so? That doesn't prove that I am intentionally deceiving people or I am an agitator.
      Of course I am partial to the protesters and in my opinion every sane mind should be too. In a situation like this it is irrational, unintelligent and inhumane at the same time to be partial to a government that has been systematically violating the most basic rights of its own citizens.
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        Jun 26 2013: MOVE! You will find it is pretty much the same, or even worst, everywhere.
        Its easy to complain and difficult to forge agreement.
        You've stated that your aim to have a conversation about the events in which I try to inform interested TEDsters, but you are not informed or informing. You are reduced to insulting anyone who disagrees with your views.
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          Jun 28 2013: "MOVE!".
          No comment...

          "You will find it is pretty much the same, or even worst, everywhere. "
          Great argument :) to legitimize PM's and his crew's wrongdoings... :)

          "you are not informed or informing."
          At your level of information and judgement about this incident you are not eligible to call me uninformed.
          And I think most of what I have shared here is quite informing for those who open-mindedly want to get informed.

          "You are reduced to insulting anyone who disagrees with your views."
          Yeah I know exactly what you mean: I answer kind of bitterly those who, despite all their ignorance about the incident, Turkey and the gov., speak pedantically, judgementally and impolitely...
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        Jun 28 2013: These issues was already addressed.
        You invited discussion but insult those that disagree with your perceptive.

        You tell others they no nothing about your country, but provide no credentials that you are anymore knowledgable about the protests or a solution..
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    Jun 23 2013: You can see from the responses here that other would rather discuss other issues
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      Jun 23 2013: The interior ministry estimates about 2.5 million people have taken part in demonstrations across Turkey since the unrest began on May 31, Milliyet newspaper reported on Sunday.

      Around 4,900 protesters have been detained and 4,000 protesters and 600 police injured, the report added.

      The interior ministry also said the protests had caused 140 million lira ($72 million) worth of damage to public buildings and vehicles.

      http://news.yahoo.com/turkish-police-break-protest-pm-lambasts-opponents-153851912.html

      When journalists are jailed, corporations are punished with huge tax levies because their owners are deemed unfriendly to the AKP, and the courts are used to dole out political payback, it is the fault of Erdogan and his party’s other leaders whose authoritarian tendencies are clear, but it also the responsibility of Turkey’s other political parties who are all at once ineffective, insular, and feckless, rendering them trivial in Turkey’s fascinating transformation.

      http://blogs.cfr.org/cook/2013/04/23/turkeys-pharaoh/
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    Jun 18 2013: What Turkey and the protesters need to worry about:

    As violent protests rock Istanbul, another cataclysm is building beneath the city.

    Just 30 miles (50 kilometers) from the center of Istanbul, the last domino is waiting to fall on the North Anatolian Fault. Since 1939, massive temblors have marched westward on the fault, moving closer to the city.

    http://www.livescience.com/37512-istanbul-earthquake-risk.html
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      Jun 23 2013: Thanks for showing the Turkish public what to worry about but this is totally out of topic here.
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        Jun 23 2013: Not really.
        Destabilizing the current government does not mean that there would be an orderly transition of power.
        Please explain to us here what the plan is.
        Protests will undermine the current economy, weakening the country and creating more suffering than you have now. And it opens the country up to more militant or fundamentalist faction taking over. See Iran.
        So explain how you transition. Free Elections? You had those and got this government.
        What is the future you envision?
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          Jun 23 2013: I don't have to explain anything (but you have to because you have too many assertions)... I am neither a leader nor a spokesperson for anybody. If you've read and/or watched what I have shared before and if you have the slightest understanding or empathy for people who are fed up being oppressed, not being able to practice their basic human rights because of a leader's personal desires and his economic vandalism you should have some explanations for not seeing all these facts...

          Btw: Where there is no media freedom there is no democratic elections which is exactly the case here...
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        Jun 23 2013: Re: " I am neither a leader nor a spokesperson for anybody."

        You are an agitator and an advocate. You are here on TED asking for our support. What you advocating for must evolve in a nation that has divergent interests? This is an internal matter, but you are here seeking outside support from people that have less information about the Turkey's problems than the Turkish people have.
        You cannot have it both ways. Destabilize the country and you will end up with military rule, again, and not the freedoms you are envisioning.
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          Jun 23 2013: "You are an agitator and an advocate."
          This is exactly similar to what I think about you right now. No consistent relationships between sentences, thoughts and posts but pretending as if you are an expert on turkish sociological, historical scene (although it is quite clear that you are not), telling people what's wrong, what's right and what to do, a clearly prejudiced/biased discourse based on rusty and distorted interpretations of pseudo-information and yet judging me as an agitator...

          The main thing I am trying to do here is to bring some information about the current events into the TED environment. I think this is clear to everyone who followed my posts. And you are weirdly not happy about it. On the contrary you are very negatively reactive about seeing this kind of information here!?!
          So let the people judge who is who here...

          Most of what you wrote is so problematic. :)))
          Take this: " This is an internal matter, but you are here seeking outside support from people that have less information about the Turkey's problems than the Turkish people have."
          Basic human rights can't be just an internal matter, especially if they are brutally violated by a government that is strongly connected to and influenced by the global economic system that is also affecting the majority of the world's population in the same ways.
          I don't even want to waste my time answering this kind of nonsense. I have already done that actually. Check my previous posts if you are willing to and want to understand the international context. Chomsky, Tariq Ali and Zizek spoke about that context... And believe me they all have a point...
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        Jun 23 2013: Re: "but pretending as if you are an expert on Turkish sociological,"

        Certainly not. No one here is. That does not stop you from soliciting support from people who know little or nothing about Turkey. Is this not a contradiction.
        You simply cannot ask for help from unknowing people and at the same time level criticism at those that have differing view points.


        Re: "Turkish uprising and what the world knows about it..."
        Our news is the same corporate media you have. Who should we believe? The fact remains, this is an INTERNAL MATTER. The world is watching but most of us do not have a dog in this fight, and would like to keep it that way.
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          Jun 23 2013: "soliciting support from people who know little or nothing about Turkey. Is this not a contradiction."

          Lovely!

          In order to being able to understand the current uprising noone needs to be a Turk or to know the Turkish history. What one needs is a critical mind and a basic understanding of the current general situation of our world and a little reading about the current events. That's all.

          Secondly, as you insist not to understand it despite me repeating it again and again and again, the aim of this conversation is having a conversation about the events in which I try to inform interested TEDsters (doesn't matter how many) about them and expect to hear their views on them. This whole conversation is not a cry for help :)). If it were I would have made it very clear in the introduction. If you got it that way that is not my problem.

          "Our news is the same corporate media you have. Who should we believe? "
          "Believe" this: "How to Detect Media Bias & Propaganda In National and World News", Dr. Richard Paul and Dr. Linda Elder, The Foundation for Critical Thinking.

          "The fact remains, this is an INTERNAL MATTER. The world is watching but most of us do not have a dog in this fight, and would like to keep it that way."

          1 - The planet is one. The boundries are on legal documents only, they don't exist in real life. The destruction of nature in Turkey DIRECTLY affects the quality of your air, water and soil whereever you are... Think! One of the most important reasons of the uprising is the relentless destruction of nature in Turkey and FYI Turkey is on planet Earth that is where you have your life too.
          2 - OR some people are still not aware that we all have our dogs in all fights against the same corrupt and destructive establishment that represents itself under different names in different geographies.
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    Jun 18 2013: Brazil is experiencing unrest as well but for different reasons.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brazil-protesters-vow-hold-big-205422440--spt.html

    Note that this is under the Sports News because they will host a major event, much like Turkey's bid to host the Olympic.
  • Jun 17 2013: I think these protests gained a margin of validity today when we saw the trade unions attacked. There has been talk of crack down on political groups and arrest of lawyers. Still I wonder what's going to go on with the constitutional referendum? Also have women's groups thought about talking to trade unions to see about getting more women in the workforce? I still think the Kurdish workers party the PKK will be a major force bringing women's rights to the middle east, I wonder if there less discussed minorities who might pursue cultural liberties in this time of shift? I believe diversity benefits a country.
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    Jun 16 2013: German MP Claudia Roth was among the people in Gezi Park who were attacked brutally yesterday night (June 16th). The following link is a die Zeit interview with her for the German speaking folks...
    http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2013-06/claudia-roth-traenengas-interview

    Latest updates (for German speaking folks again): http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2013-06/istanbul-protest-erdogan-kundgebung
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    Jun 16 2013: Two great intellectuals' words on the current uprising...
    Noam Chomsky: http://youtu.be/o1WrOIgQBHM (I've shared this in a previous post too.)
    Tariq Ali: http://youtu.be/NymCmgSY6h8
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    Jun 16 2013: There is a disgusting smear campaign full with lies (led directly by the PM and his media) the successful results of which you can see between his supporters. This is what Amnesty International's researcher on Turkey said after his observations: "I did not see any violence being used by the protesters against the police while I was observing the protests in Taksim or in nearby Cihangir from 8.30pm until the early hours of the morning. During this time police continually attacked protestors with tear gas and water cannon."
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    Jun 16 2013: Police taking a woman's goggles and attacking her:
    http://youtu.be/u5UBMlQoQ1k
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    Jun 16 2013: Police aiming water cannon to a protester in a wheelchair...
    http://youtu.be/uVzGVgl1xmw
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    Jun 16 2013: Police shooting rubber bullets aiming directly onto people's faces...
    (Graphic content!) http://youtu.be/TZvJmXfiPjE
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    Jun 16 2013: Police still beating a protester who was run over by their TOMA vehicle:
    http://youtu.be/dm6bQBqV7VI (graphic content!)

    What is a TOMA: http://youtu.be/YFBq1KZdbjI
    Here TOMAs spraying "water". As you can see it's red here. Sometimes it's yellowish. They are adding different chemicals into the water and it burns as hell too.
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    Jun 16 2013: Turkish police raiding a hotel where people took refuge because of the extensive tear gas used outside. They removed people's gas masks, helmets and took their medical solutions away which were crucial to neutralize the terrible effects of the tear gas.
    http://youtu.be/o_qVBf6-7Ew
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    Jun 16 2013: Gas bombs should not be used in interiors. Turkish gov and police is still doing that.
    Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtUHmiG29ts&feature=youtu.be
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    Jun 16 2013: Where are the donation sites?
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      Jun 16 2013: I haven't seen a donation site yet but there are some online campaigns...
      http://www.amnesty.org/en/appeals-for-action/Turkey_Protests
      http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Erdogan_End_the_crackdown_now/
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        Jun 17 2013: Many thanks.

        Here is something you may wish to consider:

        These struggles may have their roots in macro economic issues, however, they are always expressed as neighbourhood actions.

        The question that always occurs to me is - what is the organising nucleus of these outbursts?
        The list of demands you have linked to is unfocussed and disjoint - as Theo mentions in this discussion - this is also the case with the US occupy movement .. no focus.

        And yet, there is an attractor around which the revolts form.

        Is it simply outrage?

        I'd say it is more fundamental than that - it is the cause of the outrage .. what actually is it?

        It is the violation of community.

        And as far as I can tell, community is a local thing .. a neighbourhood thing.

        The principle that should be observed is the respect of the neighbourhood - the default capacity for humans to form up into tribal cells.

        If any political or economic force violates the neighbourhood, it has the right to fight.

        And this is the principle that should be supported - regardless of any other rationale or excuse for the struggle.

        The primacy of the neighbourhood is the only issue. And that is the only thing needed to deserve our support.
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    Jun 16 2013: Erdogan is known to expatriots.

    They have told me what was happening - and how the USA has fomented fundamentalism in Turkey

    We are not fooled.

    Call in your patriots - those who have done the national service to serve the people again.

    The police cannot stand against the servicemen.

    Call them in - get your funding up on the net and get funded - unleash reality on this puppet.

    And make sure that the world follows - the USA is dead.
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    Jun 16 2013: Police spraying water (probably with chemicals) into a hospital!
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151688828621508
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      Jun 16 2013: Get the names of the drivers - shame them.

      They only do this because a man in a uniform is not a man - he is a slave.
      Get his name - speak it aloud and the man will be released to be a man and cast-off the shame of his master.

      No man, woman or child will choose to live with shame.
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    Jun 15 2013: Erdogan was elected by 21 million votes, twice as many as any other candidate. Very little will change in Turkey.

    "ISTANBUL, Turkey – The political standoff between antigovernment protesters and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan eased Friday, but the last two weeks of unrest revealed national fissures and a belief by many that their leader will get his way in the end.

    Erdogan agreed to halt construction in Istanbul’s Gezi Park – pending a referendum and resolution of outstanding court cases – to avert launching a fresh police crackdown after a spate of violence that left four dead and about 5,000 injured. Many protesters, however, suggested that the prime minister’s political skills would eventually prevail."
    • Comment deleted

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        Jun 16 2013: Is Erdoogan a dicator?

        Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is arguably the most successful leader in Turkey's democratic history.

        Over the past 11 years he has dominated the political landscape, and has steered his Islamist-leaning Justice and Development (AK) Party party to three election victories.

        "He has also brought economic and political stability to a country that not long ago lurched from one crisis to another. During his premiership the economy has grown strongly and Turkey is becoming a manufacturing and export powerhouse.
        He has also faced down an army which once stepped into politics - and overthrew elected governments - whenever it felt the need.
        With the tide apparently turning in Turkey, and the strictly secularist establishment losing ground to a more overtly Muslim political consciousness, Mr Erdogan has ridden the crest of the wave."

        The fear is that he will move the country toward a religious society.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13746679
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          Jun 16 2013: So much for democracy Theo.

          We saw this coming - My Turkish wife, her family, the evil of Bush and the capitalistic anti-life stain of the USA perverting community and polarising the world in isolation - you will have this all over the world - we do not forgive, we do not forget, we are coming.

          it is you in the USA - you who call capitalism democracy. you who supported the corruption of the world.

          This is the chaos. This is the network process. This is the self organisation of the reality of self.

          Entropy now asserts the balance - and the flood has us all in its turbulence.

          It comes for you - be ready.

          No power can resist this.
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        Jun 16 2013: It's not so much the park ZX - it's the last park.

        The last straw.

        The patience of the people has been broken- and the fractures spread all around the world - get ready for your last straw to be broken.
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        Jun 16 2013: Fair enough ZX.

        I think the principle still applies.

        I was trying to imagine what would happen here if someone tried to build condos on Hyde Park.
        Although there are many parks in Sydney, none of them have the same cultural significance.
        It's still a last-straw dynamic.
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    Jun 15 2013: June 15th 2013, 23:16 GMT
    Please Copy, Paste & Share
    "URGENT CALL FOR HUMANITY!
    URGENT CALL FOR FRIENDS OF GEZİ-TAKSİM!

    On 19th day of Turkish resistance for democracy and freedom against the JDP government, after the harsh provocations of PM Erdogan in his party meeting today in Ankara, riot police attacked on Gezi Parkı at 20:50 this evening.

    On 12 June midnight representatives of the Gezi resistance, Taksim Solidarity delivered 4 main demands of the movement to PM; however as the government continued to ignore the demands of the movement, Taksim Solidarity, after long and democratic grassroot discussions of the resisters decided to continue the resistance after the basic demands are accepted.

    This evening, after the provocations of PM Erdogan in his party meeting made in Ankara, riot police started a very hard attack on Gezi Parkı with tear gas, water cannons and rubber bullets and blast bombs. There are hundreds of injured people. Police even attacked with rubber bullets against he first floor of Divan Hotel which is used as a temporary hospital and subway where people escaped and people are sending messages as: “We are dying here!”

    We urge friends of Turkish movement, international community and humanity to start every efficient actions for stopping the massacring government and PM of Turkey."
    • Jun 16 2013: you can not find the support from the western countrıes you will be drowned in your big lies, how miserable you are. although everything would go what you want, the public almost 80 percent of turkish people would fight you like happened in gelibolu war.
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    Jun 15 2013: Right now:
    RedHack_EN
    ‏@RedHack_EN
    Small children injured at Taksim, metro stations closed, police attacking injured in hospitals. MASSACRE TAKING PLACE. #occupyturkey
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    Jun 14 2013: Syria's up rising and what the people know about it= there are 95,000 dead.

    Turkey does not have an uprising, it merely hase protests.

    the bank's

    http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2013-06-12/are-bankers-to-blame-for-unrest-in-turkey

    The "Green" element

    http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/the-green-roots-of-turkeys-urban-unrest/
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      Jun 14 2013: I haven't looked at the links you shared yet but I can easily say that naming a social reaction considering only the death toll is not meaningful. It's a more complicated phenamenon than that. And for this occasion it is clear that what happens here is not just a protest...
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        Jun 14 2013: The truth is that the majority of the people support Erdogan. His Justice and Development Party received 21.3 million votes among 42million vote case in the last election. This was more than double the number of votes received by the Republican Peoples Party.

        "Analysts say the protests don't present a threat to Erdogan's tenure, but threaten his legacy. Some say he has ambitions to enter the history books as a contemporary answer to Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founding father of modern Turkey."

        Erdogan has reiterated his support for Turkey's secular democracy. This will end soon just like the Occupy Wall St. movement did.
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          Jun 16 2013: Theo - you would know the truth if you let yourself.

          As it stands You know nothing.

          You fool - you think Occupy is finished?

          It's only just starting.

          You will look around tomorrow and you will change your mind .

          And do not foul the name of Ataturk - you have no idea.
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      Jun 16 2013: Which Syrian did you ask about this?

      What did he/she say?
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        Jun 16 2013: How do you know about Occupy Wall St?
        The general assembly of OWS could not order coffee without major disagreements.
        I aw this first hand.

        I really hope you are wrong about all this because if it comes to that it will be the French Revolution all over again. Those people are not any better than the current lot.
        In the end, lt turns out like some rich banker said, "Buy when there is blood in the streets"
        And it all returns to the same old same old. We are human after all.
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          Jun 16 2013: That is the risk - things are looking so close to those events.

          Here is David Harvey in Ankara 12 months ago .. seems fairly accurate.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWRROclDEp4

          I find all this stuff somewhat terrifying and inevitable.

          From my perspective it is an entropy issue.

          I know it is coming my way soon .. and all I can think is to keep blood off my hands no matter what .. but to speak none the less.

          Because blood says what words cannot.

          With Occupy, my involvement was via anonymous contacts .. and occupy has not stopped - it has simply spread-out along the supply lines of those who pepper-sprayed it out of the streets.

          The entropy question is paramount - there seems a limit to the acceleration it can sustain.
          The economic model of the west relies on the acceleration of entropy - we call it "consumption" but it has manifested in population growth.

          All of this unrest originates in the entropic limit - we bump into it, have a revolution or a war, press the limit back a bit, and press on - the limits are reached in every shortening crisis cycles and will do so until we cease the acceleration of entropy.

          It is the nature of money to accelerate entropy - it becomes the surrogate of life but is not real - it is not constrained to reality and urges us to worship the survival of the supremest - not the fittest as Darwin discovered, but the extremist excess of dominance and the aggregation of advantage for advantage sake.
          The survival of the extremist demands that only one will be left standing - not any species .. one single individual. And that individual is money.
          It is the only entity that demands supremacy.

          While ever we are locked at the altar of mammon and work for money in things called Jobs, the entropy will have its way and there will be blood all over the planet long before runaway warming fries it all.
          So I applaud the protesters - they are the only voices standing out - no matter how fragmented .. the coming desperation will unite them in war.
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        Jun 18 2013: Why would any Syrians understand what is happening to them?
        How are they informed and by whom?
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          Jun 18 2013: My friend says: "When elephants fight, the grass is trampled".

          Information travels by virtue of the design of the social animal.

          But really .. when the dynamics of desperation are triggered, does it matter what triggered the conflagration?

          The trigger itself will be responding to desperation elsewhere.
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    Jun 13 2013: Don't miss this epic night of Turkish uprising, TEDsters!
    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/yomgashum1
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    Jun 13 2013: Protesters enjoying life as it should be :) These are the kind of people one would be very proud of revolting with! :)
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151965919914688
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    Jun 11 2013: TAKSIM GEZI PARK RESISTANCE SPEAK UP: REASONS&DEMANDS
    "This text is written with efforts that aim to detect the reasons and demands of many different people who have gathered in the common ground to give a support to the Taksim Gezi Park Resistance. As a method, the aim of close-knit (face-to-face) working have been explained to the people from many different aspects that came together to resist in the common ground. It was asked them to write down their reasons and demands for resistance. Later on writings of these people were put together. Among those, the ones that consist of humiliating statements were eliminated therefore not stated.
    The text aims to reflect the whole picture of the resistance in general and doesn’t necessarily reflect the opinions of individuals or groups specifically."
    For the rest of the announcement follow this link:
    http://taksim-solidarity.tumblr.com/tagged/english
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    Jun 10 2013: This is how it all started or was ignited. You don't need to speak Turkish to understand. The demolition team comes to the Gezi Park without any legal permit for demolition. People try to stop them. Very interestingly (or not) the police is there to neutralize the civilians instead of the demolition team that do not have the legal permit...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEkln8M70Xo
  • Jun 10 2013: All I can say is, you need to form a true democacy that answers to the people, and to do this it must be secular. If Turkey becomes an Islamic government, you will be worse off.
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    Jun 10 2013: This is a site worth exploring. There are pictures and videos with english explanations. http://showdiscontent.com/archive/gezi-parki/
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    Jun 10 2013: I am reading some comments and questions that are completely irrelevant and can't even come close to what's going on right now. I don't have time to reply to these kind of out-of-mind-approaches or biased questions one by one but instead I would like to suggest you reading a little about the events if you really want to have a grasp on things.
    Ok. Some very basic but helpful Q&A: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22780773
    And a question @John Moonstroller: Are you sure that you at least have clicked on the FIRST TWO LINKS I have shared in my introduction... Most of your answers are there...
  • Jun 10 2013: Have you heard of the French Revolution? Have you heard of of the Russian Revolution? Have you heard of Hitler's Revolution in Germany? Have you heard of the Chinese Revolution? If this goes further, Pray.
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    Jun 10 2013: Anon, the reports we are getting from Journalists on the ground there in Turkey, is that most of these protesters are composed of varying fragmented groups, each with their own agenda.

    They are also telling us that there are elements within these groups that are trying to propagate violence. Is there one unifying cause that brings all these protesters together or is has the original protest against building a mall where a park resides still the main focus?

    I listen to PBS all the time and this is what they are telling us.
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      Jun 10 2013: "Anon, the reports we are getting from Journalists on the ground there in Turkey, is that most of these protesters are composed of varying fragmented groups, each with their own agenda."
      I think that this is true but not complete. As expected there are different groups with different focuses. LGBTI individuals underline LGBTI rights, feminists underline women's rights etc. but also every group knows or at least feels that it is quite hard to achieve their goals under the current government and that is the unifying aspect...

      "They are also telling us that there are elements within these groups that are trying to propagate violence."
      I don't have those news. So far everything has been quite peaceful between the groups...

      "Is there one unifying cause that brings all these protesters together" I think I have answered this part...

      "or is has the original protest against building a mall where a park resides still the main focus?" That is one of the subjects now... The demands are growing bigger. For example people now want some governors and some police officials to resign too because of the extreme violence of the police...
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        Jun 10 2013: Well, instead of showing the world videos about protesters in great numbers, is it possible that some individuals that are considered neutral and level headed by both the government and protesters could mediate the differences? This of course assume there are leaders amongst the protesters who can speak for them.

        You must agree, as long as people are gathered together in large groups, the opportunity for violence increases.

        So we can get a good handle on the protesters side of the disagreement, who do you consider to be a spokesperson or leader for the protesters?

        How about yourself? Are you a leader, spokesperson or simply an instigator?
      • Jun 10 2013: how can you be such a big lier? how you protect women's rights or another democratic rights I could not catch your point. I saw a violence against public or private properties. you have given a huge damage to country, costing almost 40 million dollars. these are only the cost of burning or ripping the paving stones off. stock exchange has seen its deepest value. how can you say that you are protecting the rights of a lot of people.
        did not you see the protestors in ankara burning the Turkish flag or throwing the tear gases to the underground system after police threw themselves.
        there are a lot of fake photos taken from another countries, supposedly showing the police violence in turkey.
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          Jun 10 2013: How can you be so sure that I am a liar? Evidence is all around but you can't see it. That is very tragic. Are you aware that your words reflect exactly what the government wants us to think? What you said seems very similar to what the government controlled media pumps... Don't trust the mainstream media. Your view is the typical byproduct of the planned disinformation Wake up: http://imgur.com/bzTQhJR
          (I am not going to argue with you after this. You can choose to give more effort to be informed correctly or you can stay in the disinformation cloud and be a misinformed individual just like many others with tragic inferences and actions.. That is your choice.)
      • Jun 10 2013: If you do not show your anger with violence, people may find your wants logical. however ı can not link your wants with what you have done in the streets. I am not a fan of the government, so I have got no reason to lose objectivity. I can easily say that in Turkey all mass media are not under the control of the gov. If they wanted to prevent your right to get news, firstly they would prevent to reach social network services. ın those places there are huge disinformation and also someone always swear to dead mother of the PM. Moreover, there is no restriction to watch some press or any ban over following the international ones. There are camera records what protestors( actually the ones provoking) did for two weeks.
        You may have trouble with the ideology of the government, it should be, someone should have different views. But you should react by peaceful democratic protests and elections, only PM is not the one who is hurt, all citizens are injured. In addition ıf you had some respect to democracy, you would not insult the people who oppose you politically. you should learn to respect others, almost 50% of citizens in Turkey voting for this PM.
        I will pay the bill of damages by being taxed or the tradesmen in Taksim are said to have been lost 80% of their trade. you can not say that you are not responsible from these results.
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    Jun 9 2013: This is a hotel in the vicinity of the Gezi Park that has opened its doors to the protesters if they need to use the WC or rest or shower, etc... And these are the two of the protesters who are called by the PM looters (look up the word "chapulling"), provocateurs, boozers, vandals... We are experiencing a very graceful, witty and peaceful resistance in spite of the epic police brutality...
    http://youtu.be/PIZ-Uevb6w8
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    Jun 9 2013: Again :(( Police is attacking people with teargas and water cannons in capital Ankara right now. And the biggest news networks NTV and Cnnturk is showing PM's speechfor the fourth time...
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    Jun 9 2013: I think foreign media has done more coverage than the mainstream Turkish media...
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      Jun 9 2013: Absolutely... People should think about this! One of the biggest historical events in Turkey's history is taking place right now and the mainstream turkish media channels prefer not to cover it... Why?
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        Jun 9 2013: Obvious answer: money...
        All media conglomerates have financial ties with the government, resulting in a self-censoring mechanism.
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          Jun 9 2013: Yes. But they are also beginning to realize that they have some important financial ties with us too. And we can cut these tie too...
      • Jun 10 2013: Okay, I watched your links. This isn't Sweden for sure. Maybe the EEC and others shouldn't be telling Turkey and other countries how to do things. I mean all these protesters seem to miss Ataturk's legacy. Okay there are experts out there, but I am under the impression that Turkey like Egypt the progressives are in the army. Gosh I know not everyone wants to be like the West, but people should face the reality of that fact. I mean we've had idiot Presidents in America, but this Prime Minister seems to have no humanity in his heart. Is the situation so dire that he has to be so callous.
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    Jun 9 2013: I'll be trying to update this conversation with new information and links as new fieldworks arrive... This weekend we are seeing massive crowds coming together in Taksim square... It is also said that the police will try to clear the Taksim square from people beginning from tomorrow. Noone knows how they can manage to do that because not a single demand has been met until now. On the contrary, the PM looks like he is trying to agitate his electorate and to stir up the polarizations which are already quite visible to a new level...
    People in Taksim square: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151652652786907