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Discussing the fundamental nature of Katz presentation and the validity of the claims he makes in the video.

He makes claims in this video that are false.
His statement and focus on men ignores the fundamental question why do some people abuse other people.
Non-feminist oriented studies made says that women abuse there male partners physically and emotionally to the same degree as men do their female partners and according to some studies even more.
Also there is more spousal abuse in female homosexual relationships than in male homosexual relationships. If the problem is men why do homosexual women hit their spouses more?

What he is doing and talking about makes it harder to help people because what he speaks of is fundamentally false. Perhaps some in the audience work in healthcare system. A woman comes in and has signs of abuse. Shes there with a woman. The nurse/doctor given the myths reinforced by this talk will not think that the woman sitting there with their patient might be the one that psychically abused her.

Also when it comes to sexual abuse etc. at least 20% of the perpetrators of sexual abuse of children are female. Young boys taken advantage of by older women are not seen as victims of abuse but a lot of them suffer psychological effects that lead them to violence and drug abuse.
When college students were asked about if they had sex even if they didnt want to a lot more men than women said they had had sex even if they didn't want to.

When it comes to his "By stander approach", it has not been scientifically evaluated. He has no factual backing if it works. There is no comparatives studies made at all with regards to any of his methods. He has just made the methods up from what I can tell. Hes a good salesman so people buy into the feminism inspired male bashing.

Essentially the video and the presenter lies and/or is totally uninformed with regards to the research that exists, the statistics that are available.

If men are the problem why do women do the same thing? Perhaps its not a sex issue, perhaps god forbid its something else entirely

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    Jun 10 2013: It must be uncomfortable for a victim of abuse to read all this rumpus. What cannot be debated is the existence of the problem of abusive behavior. It happens from the nursery to the elder care facilities and everywhere in between. Should TEDsters step-back a second and ask if we are bringing anything to the table that is worth sharing? Perhaps protecting the innocent is more important than placing the blame. In firefighting they get the fire out first, then search for the cause. We seem to be in the way of those trying to put out the fire here. I understand there are complex causal relationships and that statistics are valuable contributors to solutions, but we ought not lose sight of the immediate need to stop this problem.
    • Jun 10 2013: Yep. But if we only look at some of the perpetrators we might be missing the actual causes for the violent behaviors etc. Men arent violent because they are men since almost no men are violent in practice.
      Females arent violent because they are female either. Need to look at what the cause is for the violent behavior.
      Masculinity is a feminist go to solution which is just wrong. When feminist and like-minded individuals discuss they usually take everything negative about men as a whole and name that masculinity. No one would say that femininity is the cause for a violent woman.
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        Jun 10 2013: Andreas,
        You say..."almost no men are violent in practice". You want to think about that statement a little more?

        You are absolutely right....we "need to look at what the cause is for the violent behavior".

        Katz encourages ALL PEOPLE.....both men and women....to address the challenge. Why does that bother you so much?
        • Jun 10 2013: "Katz encourages ALL PEOPLE.....both men and women....to address the challenge. Why does that bother you so much?"
          You keep repeating that but thats not the thing I have problem with. Since you fail to see the issue then there is nothing to debate regardless how many times I write it in one way or another. But I do one last try.
          He says men violent, men and women should help with it.
          I say individuals (both women and men but not always the same percentage) are violent and we should help and recognize all their victims and prevent individuals regardless of gender to become violent in the first place.
          Can you see the difference in approach?
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        Jun 10 2013: I am repeating because you are repeating Andreas.

        Andreas, I do not "fail to see the issue". I have been addressing the issue of violence and abuse for 60+ years. I am failing to see YOUR issue.

        I totally agree with you...."we should help and recognize all their victims and prevent individuals regardless of gender to become violent in the first place."

        Katz also recommends what you recommend. That is why I keep asking if you actually watched the video:>)
        • Jun 10 2013: Please enlighten me to where in the video he says what I'm saying. Would be benificial. All I hear is men do this men do that. Not, some men do this or that. Neither do I hear some women do this or that.
          The talk would be more factual and not ideologically biased if it talked about domestic violence and abuse from a gender neutral standpoint. Such as both some men and women do bad stuff in relationships. We need to get more men involved in this since this concerns them as well. both as potential victims and as community members.

          If this was a talk about black mens as group violence this would not even been posted. Same goes with muslims and other groups. But when it comes to men you can talk on a general group level without anyone raises an eyberow. Since thats just how men are.
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        Jun 10 2013: Absolutely Andreas..."We need to get more men involved in this since this concerns them as well. both as potential victims and as community members".

        That is EXACTLY what Katz is saying!
        • Jun 10 2013: No its not he ignore the lesbians violence, he ignores the female abusers etc. So its not exactly what hes saying. I include women as perpetrators of crime he does not.
          How this keeps getting missed is beyond me.
          Personally I find it sexist not to recognize women as potential criminals. Its also a major cause for concern since female criminals do not get the help they need because women do no wrong. This attitude then is detrimental for the women because they run the risk of getting even more involved in crime because of how society views female criminals.
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          Jun 10 2013: Yes, it really is what he is saying.

          Perhaps reading the transcript will make it more clear?
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        Jun 10 2013: I think I see your concern that portraying males as the (sole) cause of abusive behavior is off-target. I suppose that easily retrieved statistics could illustrate the percentages of male versus female initiated abuse and that would put that question to rest. Then we are left with the question, "How do we stop it?" Am I understanding your issue? By the way, you may want to explain the statement, ". . . almost no men are violent in practice." Thanks for sharing your perspective.
        • Jun 10 2013: See my posts higher up in the conversation with regards to prevalence.

          " By the way, you may want to explain the statement, ". . . almost no men are violent in practice." Thanks for sharing your perspective."
          Issue is that we talk about men violence against women on a general level. But almost no men actually are violent against women. Its a very low percentage of men that excibit this behavior. When looking at who hits and kills women its not normal men either.

          Its like talking about muslims and terrorism. There are 1.2 billion muslims so talking about muslims commit terrorism takes things out of proportion. It takes one characteristic of some terrorists and generalizes it to all muslims. Some terrorists are muslim but therefor it does not mean all muslims are terrorists. The terrorists are not terrorists because they are muslim (male, member of a fraternity, etc). Most muslims from the same background, cultural environment etc does not end up being terrorists.

          Also we as a society care deeply about women getting hurt. We ridicule men that get hurt.
          A thoughtfull rant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA4EPRbWhQ
          Can see whole clip first in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh1p_UWXjBw

          How we react to women beating men and men beating women. And he says the cause is men and manhood and men should be more involved?
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBHD6oTJIA
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          Jun 10 2013: Andreas,
          You write..."almost no men actually are violent against women. Its a very low percentage of men that excibit this behavior"

          The links you provide do not support your claim, and in fact, serve more to reinforce what Jackson Katz talks about.
        • Jun 10 2013: As a short reply to Colleen Steen.

          Dear Colleen - how i the world can you find that the to videolinks supplyed by Andreas is supporting the overall tone in Jacksons performance. Both videos - in a disturbing manner - show EXACTLY why some of us men are so upset. The videos give a clear voice to the growing feeling that some people - women mostly - think it is OK to rant and talk down on men.

          "Shame on you Ms Steen" - not to understand this.
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          Jun 10 2013: Dear Pär Jönsson,
          I do not accept the "shame" you are trying to give to me. Perhaps it is your own shame?

          The first video shows a man using abusive, offensive language. Rather than reinforcing abuse, it would be helpful if that man was part of the solution, rather than part of the problem....as Jackson Katz suggests.

          I'm not sure why some of you men are so upset at a talk, which clearly says that both men AND women can be part of the solution.
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      Jun 10 2013: Good points Edward.

      "The person who says it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it".
      (Chinese Proverb)

      It appears that this discussion was started for the purpose of criticizing Katz, which doesn't make any sense, nor does it provide anything of value toward dealing with violence and abuse in our world.
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        Jun 10 2013: Like any of us, Mr. Katz is open to criticism. I think he is trying to contribute to a solution, or, as your proverb would say, he is trying to "do it" while Andreas N. by questioning the assumption of male causation, is saying "it can't be done (that way)". I think both of the contenders are focused on factors not immediately helpful to victims and that's OK I guess, even though I would prefer asset (Time, Thought, Communication, etc.) expenditures more focused on putting-out the fire. Thanks for sharing the proverb! Be well Ms. Steen.
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          Jun 11 2013: I agree Edward, that anyone is open to criticism, even when effectively contributing to a solution.

          In this discussion, however, we are seeing arguments, including, "almost no men are violent in practice", which is a total denial of facts.

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