TED Conversations

Jah Kable

Thinker ready to be unleashed upon the world,

This conversation is closed.

Is the world really going to sit back and watch as these peaceful protesters in Turkey are attacked by police with chemical weapons?

Peaceful protesters are being attacked with chemical weapons and RUN OVER by swat vehicles. Is this not worthy of help from the world? Is it possible that respect can be worth more than a resource that we readily fight for at the drop of a hat? Why are human rights being ignored? Peaceful protest meets non-peaceful police and the world just stands by and watches. Where is this right? Do our leaders have any morals? We intervene whenever a resource is in the equation.

Share:

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.

  • thumb
    Jun 6 2013: Jah.

    When you start talking of violating the right of sovereignty of a nation, you are also talking about the erosion of your personal sovereignty.

    If some knight in shining armour goes into Turkey and skewers the violent police on his shining spear of justice - you will not have grounds to complain when you find yourself impaled on that lance when it comes for you.

    The unrest in Urban Turkey was engineered by US neo liberalism.

    Doctor heal thyself.
    • thumb
      Jun 6 2013: Rationalism states that the sovereignty of a nation-state may be violated in extreme circumstances, such as human rights abuses.
      • thumb
        Jun 6 2013: Here's a document that confirms your assertion here above:

        http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

        I find it kind of nice how that works out! And thanks for the thumbs up!
        • thumb
          Jun 11 2013: Reflex flag-waving is not all that impressive. There is a higher document signed by most nations at the UN. For what it's worth.

          THe developments in Turkey are well known to me - my Turkish relatives have been giving me understanding of how the secular Turkish government was undermined by events in the gulf and US interference which allowed the mullahs to re-establish their grip on Turkish government and assertion of fundamental religious agendas.
          The oddity is the co-insurgence of corporate dispossession of the Turkish urban commons - it is this unholy alliance that has precipitated the current violence.
          Have a look.
          I say again - you who are diseased have no claim to the surgeon's scalpel.
        • thumb
          Jun 11 2013: @Juan re post below:

          To "fix" terrorism is to stop creating it. That's the answer to both #1 and #2.

          I don't command facts - they are public domain - if you bother to get them.

          You are at more risk than you imagine - you really aught to look at this:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDjWvLtQfK4
          ( I know it's a long presentation - but it's worth hanging in there to see the guts of this monster close-up)

          What is going down in Turkey is already ready to happen in the USA.
          The best we can do is to give solidarity to the Turkish protesters - perhaps by funding, but also by spreading the protest to your social media and streets.
          The other part is to watch closely how the Turkish fascist regime goes about its ugly business - because you will be prepared for your own struggle against your own fascism.

          If you think that you are immune to the dispossession, then think again - the walls will not be high enough to keep out the outrage of the dispossessed. And no country under corporate fascism is immune - even my own.

          We all need to watch and learn.
        • thumb
          Jun 11 2013: And solutions?

          absolutely - I have a few ideas, but solutions must come through getting the ideas of many and putting a structure under them.

          For one - the constitution of corporations must be mandated to include liability for externalities. As it stands, corporations are programmed to be psychopathic - the basic profit motive excludes compassion.
          For two - the design of the operation of money has to be fixed. As is stands all quantative easing is done through debt - no money is currently created into the economy except by loan defaults. THis is not obvious, but all the evictions from the sub-prime are actually creating money - all loan defaults leave currency in circulation that cannot return to the banks - it is where all the deflation is being corrected, and relies on cutting-off the life supply of victims - it is a form of mass-murder.
          The capitalist solution to running an economy on zero-sum(plus usury) debt is by increasing turnover of debt-capital - and the limits are reached - all that remains is dispossession or hyper-inflation.
          For 3: the outmoded model of the invisible hand as a religion must fall. What Adam Smith revealed was simply one emergent property of a chaos system - he did not see all the others, and very few economists even admit they exist .. but they do.
          FOr 4: the role of the state only works when the state is formed as representation of the voters. As is stands it is no more than a choice of dictators to occupy the primary power niche of the nation. Corporation has seized it - and corporations are all national-socialist organisations serving the corporation as nation - at best they are feudal.
          For 5: People must re-learn that what they work for gets their strength - and that the choice must be empowered. There is a massive difference between job and work - job is for money, work is for life. We need to re-learn that distinction.

          What are your ideas?
      • thumb
        Jun 6 2013: Yup, what Jah said!
      • thumb
        Jun 11 2013: The terrible sad thing is that what is being played out in Turkey right now is likely to happen in the USA very soon - it happened in the 60's and it happened before then and it will happen again.

        By your reasoning I should urge my government to come in and destroy the USA to save the street protesters you kill, maim and pepper spray into political oblivion. Occupy is just the start.

        I am sorry, a document of rights is a sop to the deluded.

        Fix USA before you go off to fix Turkey.
        • thumb
          Jun 11 2013: Well, I mostly know better than to argue with that. Perhaps you command the facts and I merely rearrange the wax fruit?

          Two questions: 1) How do we fix terrorism? AND 2) What should have been the correct response to the events of 9/11.

          I'm not just tossing that out to put a cramp in your brain. I really do want to know. We get a lot of "Wave the flag & salute for heroism" stuff going on here from time to time. Some of that is important. Some of that not so much. I might as well ask to be informed by your enlightened perspective. And you make predictions. Any solutions to go with those predictions?
        • thumb
          Jun 11 2013: Yup the USA def. has it's problems Mitch. I can't even say what i want to say because it will just come off as "conspiracies". I really do agree with you though. We definitely needs some maintenance ourselves but that has never stopped us from playing world police. We put ships in hostile water and expect them not to be torpedoed, we fly planes over hostile countries and expect no retaliation, we put troops down where they have business being then say we were attacked. The USA is unbelievably good at provoking hostile actions and twisting the stories that follow. The cost of these planes we got... is ridiculous.
          These are the new fighters we're about to buy. Should be the standard plane by 2015. Each one cost a little more than $150 million, and if you multiply that by the around 2400 they are projecting to buy.......That come to a little over $360 BILLION! And I thought we were in a recession. The current debt is around $16 TRILLION and about 30-40% is gov't.
          For the Planes.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II
          For the Debt.
          http://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/
      • thumb
        Jun 11 2013: Hey Jah,

        We are in it all together.

        All I'm saying is that the best way to help the protesters in Turkey is to carry their message to our own countries where exactly the same injustices thrive.

        I look to the USA because the USA is the power and all things have to happen there before any other country can do it. I mean .. we will anyway, but if it gets won in the USA, then there's hope for victory here - and in Turkey.

        Apart from that, we could drop some donations on the Turkish protesters to help them stay mobilized. They are on their own ground and know what the details are.
        For this country we are about to elect the greatest fascist ever born on planet earth and there will be so much violence before the voters wake up to what they've done. It's self preservation on my part to hope and pray for some real leadership in the USA to give us hope for our own futures.
        • thumb
          Jun 12 2013: I don't have hope for any leader in the USA. No matter what they say when they are up and coming, they always change when they receive the power they desire. Obama did it. Bush did it. Everyone does it. And as for the rare few that don't.... We all know what happened to JFK and Lincoln. They paid the ultimate price for trying to better the world. Before JFK was shot he said this-
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xhZk8ronces
          I believe this is exactly what is happening today in the USA. The things he warned of are happening now. It pains me to think this man paid his life and people just nodded and forgot. I just noticed things he said line right up with things I personally regard as laws to myself and my actions.

          "An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it." -JFK
      • thumb
        Jun 12 2013: The USA produced Kennedy and others like him. Those kind of people are one in 300 million or more.
        There are 7 billion of us - good people exist.

        The thing is that we are born into ignorance and it takes half a lifetime to even begin to get our noses above the mud.

        It just has to be that way because we can do little more than play the game as we find it - our survival is touch and go every single day, and there's precious little left over to stand back a little and see wtf is going on.

        Robert Sapolsky tells us that lower primates such as baboons need only 2 hours per day to satisfy their daily needs. What is it that humans did wrong that we work dawn til disk, and beyond, just to keep a roof over our heads and a crust in the mouths of our children?
        It is the big lie - when I was employing people, I was not permitted to hire a single soul if the company did not gain 9 tenths of the surplus of their work. They get 10 cents in the dollar on their own lives and have no time at all to stand back to see what's going on.
        We are less than baboons. But we can be so much more.
        • thumb
          Jun 13 2013: And that is exactly the system of "behind the curtain" slavery we live in. Most people don't know they are only getting 1/10th. They think they got it good because they are getting by. I don't work and that is one of the reasons why. I refuse to support that system in any way. Don't get me wrong I'm not lazy and I do want to provide for myself and those I care about BUT I'm not going to lick boots for that 1/10th. I was taught to get respect you must give respect. so I do and when If don't receive it back... I'm done. That is one thing I will not tolerate at all. I had a job in a warehouse doing sanitation. My boss always got on me about staying 15 minutes late because I wanted to make sure my job was completely done. He also liked to ask me to work 10-14 hour shifts when other people fucked him over and didn't come in. Keep in mind that I was making less money than the people that were calling in regularly. I asked for raises and told them why I deserved it and continually heard no. When I finally did get a reason for the denials, it was "You can't just keep asking for a raise and expect to get one." I was hired for sanitation at the warehouse, yet I was covering forklift drivers shifts and I wasn't doing enough. Forklift drivers are part of a union and made literally more than twice what I did. That's unacceptable to me. I never heard a complaint from my boss either. I never told him no until i repeatedly heard it. I remember days I went to work at 7am and didn't walk out the door til 9pm. I still can't believe that sh*t. Ever since then I've had no desire to impress any employer. I'm quite sure of the treatment I'm going to receive so whats the point of going above and beyond when you're treated like you're below and behind. A simple truth I like to follow is "You get what you give." I've given and given and received the minimum consistently. Now that is what I give, to the system at least. Things like this I give my all because it's the right thing to do. =D
      • thumb
        Jun 14 2013: Well .. that's why I developed my slogans : "Abandon your job take up your work".
        Job is for someone else, work is for life.
        Whoever you work for gets your strength
        If you work for money, money gets your strength.
        etc etc.

        Living in ignorance these truths are very quickly crushed into perpetual discontent.
        But to regain these truths, one finds that the truth is still more powerful than the lies we are forced to eat.
        When you find your work, everything just falls into place so you can do it. And you find that you can even take a jobe to finance your work - and that removes the sting from the pain of being a job-slave .. because you will leave the job the instant that your work is satisfied - and that subjugates job into your work - you gain mastery of your own life.

        Once you get your work .. man .. it's almost like magic .. alltrhose others doing their work start coming out of the woodwork and you find yourself in the real community .. the real economy .. and there's your behind-the-curtain reality .. and it does not even have to hide itself.

Showing single comment thread. View the full conversation.