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Robert Winner

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Is there a correlation between per student spending and educational results.

Experts agree that the drop in educational spending per student was driven more by harsh economic realities rather than ideological preferences. In the coming years more education funding is likely to be allocated to teacher pensions and health care benefits, potentially leaving less for classroom instruction.

Paul E. Peterson, director of Harvard University’s program on education policy and governance, said his data has shown a very small positive correlation between how much is spent per student and how well they do.

“It’s costing us a lot more, but are we getting anything out of it? That’s the question,” he said.

Was education more effective prior to President Carter making Ed a Cabnet Post and the money flowing to Washington instead of the districts and the students?

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    May 27 2013: Results may increase by more spending but what wouldn't? The increase in spending does not parallel the performance.

    Here is an article that none of you will read that explains

    http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/09/does-spending-more-on-education-improve-academic-achievement

    The question is why does the government force people to send their children to attend public indoctrination centers. You might say they are not forced? But they do through taxes which are not transferable.
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        May 27 2013: You bet your ass

        "If you consider public schools indoctrination centers what do you call religious schools ?"

        A choice

        "The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion"

        Yet they take money by force, that cannot be used for a non secular education, WTF that is forcing a choice regarding religion.
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        May 27 2013: Why is it ok for the government to use force to tell you how you get educated?
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        May 27 2013: You are forced by taxes to use the school that the government collective decides is condoned.

        I choose to use my 1st amendment rights to talk about this. You have already expressed your willingness to censor me on this. Why do you also condone the use of force?
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        May 27 2013: If I want to stay I am forced to the will of the majority. If I do no wish to abide than I am forced to leave. Why do you condone the government to use force on areas that would be different if no force was used?

        If all taxes are included at least 50% of your life you are forced into enslavement to the majority.

        How different is this than the Iranian who was talking about creating more freedom in his country?

        You expressed your disdain for the Heritage House which is fine and I expressed by disdain to your lack of respect for the Heritage House. Incidentally the POTUS is accused of using that sort of mentality to attack his political enemies. I also expressed my disdain for your cavalier attitude towards the government using force by saying WTF.

        Why do you condone the use of force by the government? Either by forcing you to leave or forcing you into enslavement for education? There is nothing in the constitution about this.
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        May 28 2013: To paraphrase and cut through the crap, you are advocating force.

        This country would be completely different if force was not used.

        Spare me your conjecture it is moronic.
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        May 28 2013: Just to be clear LaMar is advocating the use of force by the government.
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        May 28 2013: I ain't lying boy.
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        May 28 2013: The government is forcing people people to pay for schools they would they would not choose or putting them in jail.

        You have stated this over and over, you just won't use the word force but it sure as hell is force.
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        May 28 2013: This is like talking to a parrot

        If the government did not use force in education, housing, healthcare, student loans, construction, bonds, money supply, welfare,food stamps, etc. etc.

        There would have been no dumb students, a housing bubble, healthcare bubble and a much lower cost, students with out huge debt and actual jobs when they graduated, lower construction cost because of no Davis Bacon, no inflation, bonds that were a normal interest rate so the FED would not have to print money like it is Weimar, the immigration problem would be greatly alleviated because the government would not force taxpayers to give money to illegal immigrants, the government would not force people to be on welfare into perpetuity because they have been out of the job market for too long, etc, etc

        That is because of government force period.

        I will not respond too any more of your comments.
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          May 28 2013: you just need to get used to doublethink. if you do not want the government to take care of things, you refuse personal responsibility. it is zen.
        • Jun 22 2013: I think perhaps your disagreement with Pat lies not in a misunderstanding as much as with definition. You are speaking of a Democracy, whereas Pat may be hinting that he believes we are now living under a plutocratic form of government. Perhaps that is where your disagreements lie?
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        May 28 2013: Indeed, however if allowed to continue imo has a 8 in 10 chance of imploding.
    • May 28 2013: Public Schools by proven record are not center of critical thinking. They are places where children are learning to be followers, and the leaders are sanctioned. The public school experience today is nothing like it was in the 40's, 50's and 60's. Have you ever looked at the curriculum used in those decades; they are light years more advance that what it is being teached today. Just a couple of days ago a teacher was sanction for teaching students about their First Amendment Right. If we really care about our children, our country our society we must stop being naive about the state of the public school experience. Read the Chasm by Edward Griffin, not just read that paper, but dissect it. The Simple Are Passed by.
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        May 28 2013: That's an interesting observation. My kids' education in urban public school in the early part of this century was definitely more rigorous than mine in the fifties and sixties. Do you have a link to reliable evidence/research that makes a general comparison?
        • May 29 2013: Hence, my point. Since the early 1900's there has been a movement to dumb down Americans so that they can lose their liberties and natural rights, because an uneducated nation is a lost nation. In my early twenties, I used to discuss with my friends that the fall of any great society comes by a massive influx of ignorance (Rome, being a notable historical example.) and I concluded that the U.S. would be overtaken by ignorance and its fall would be inevitable. In Rome the ignorance come from outside its society; in the U.S. the fall is in action, right now, through internal ignorance. Massive amounts of immigrants don't even know that we are suppose to be the nation govern by the States and not governed by a Central Government. When a thirteen year old doesn't thinks that the reason for the 4th of July is a day for a picnic, and doesn't know that is the celebration of an epic event, the freeing of a society from another much more powerful one; that it is about our freedoms. Then the fall is inevitable. Who do we have to thank for this massive ignorance? The public school system that does not enlighten, but rather steels the knowledge of our Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence. I was born in a foreign country; when asked, what makes me American. I say, it is not the color of my skin, the accent in my voice, the food I eat. What makes me American is The Constitution, The Bill of Rights and The Declaration of Independence that ensure my natural rights and not government right. Most Americans, even the very well educated, have no point of reference, they have never experienced a society without natural rights; so in their brilliance they bash the most outstanding society ever given to men; The United States! This doesn't mean we are a perfect nation, but we were better than the rest; regrettably soon we will be another Banana Republic that is subject to the rights of the State, rather than our natural rights as human being.
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          May 30 2013: What she said.
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        May 29 2013: Katharine

        The article I linked above pushes for school choice. They indicate the test scores have remained flat for the last 3 decades while at the same time spending has doubled or tripled one of the most egregious was Detroit with spending in excess of 11k per student (I question the veracity of that number) with a dropout rate in excess of 50%. The main thing they question is how little of the money is actually used in the classroom they said 52% is spent outside of the classroom.

        The main thing I see is that education like housing is being artificially propped up. There cannot be a recovery of either until they are allowed to fail. Then the market will find the real value of an education and build value from that point.

        For example if 50% of the kids want to drop out then let them, if they are committing crimes put them to work at hard labor. Get rid of the minimum wage which would allow work to be moved to Detroit at a price that would compete with China. At this point me thinks people would have a different take on the value of an education?

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