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The source of morality

Many times religious people claim that atheist people are immoral, because they have no reason to be good. Claim is false, ungrounded and impudent but it has a point. Atheist people have no base for their morality. When there is no divine ruler; nothing is sacred, everything is permitted. But it is not! Why? Because not! I dumped old beliefs that prohibits samegender sex, or intercourse before wedding or eating pig meat etc. Still my morales very similar with what religion gave us, and when they can say "God forbid it" I can't say anything. I need those explanations. I need proofs that shows incest, bestiality, necrophilia is obnoxious and bad. I need proofs that shows wars ar ugly and bad.

Otherwise someone will just say, the siblings loved each other what is wrong with that? War is best way to develop technology is totally legit and necessary. Torchere is necessary, it can not be removed. No it is mean and ugly! Would you like to be torchered? Why am I a criminal?

I tried to build my own reason. I changed "the good" and "the bad" to "the flawed" and "unflawed" act. Now I can give reasons by revealing flaws of the act I do not approve. It made sense to me. But it is very subjective.

So what do you think about it. If you're not religious, what is your morales based on? Or what community should base their morale on it?

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    • May 26 2013: Hello LaMar
      I was speeding through and my eye caught your first sentence.

      I agree wholeheartedly with your entire message.

      There seems to be an area to yet be explored. Mental Illness,
      or bluntly speaking, the lack of morals in crazy people's thinking.

      I've raised 3 children, and 3 step-children. Several have turned
      to drugs. All but one child, have recovered completely. Of my many
      grand-children, several turned to drugs. One of my children,
      my daughter, and both her children are addicts. Addicts have
      little in the way of a moral code. I felt desperate for many years
      knowing my daughter was 'out there'. I had a phone call from her,
      she said, "Dad, I live a different lifestyle, and I want you to stop
      worrying about me. I am happy with myself. Drugs and all."
      She freed me, but of course I still worry.

      Her two boys on the other hand, are 'rapscallions' of the first order.
      But they still visit, when they think I won't notice drug use. I get to
      worry again. I worry not about the great-grand-children, they are
      wee babies.

      Watching my grandson's lack of moral constraint is difficult, but
      being on a first name basis with the local cops helps here and there.

      But the status in a society of those who cannot recognize that there is
      a moral compass. Means that they must undergo society's punishments.

      Does any society have 'that' right to punish those who violate said society's
      preset moral standards?
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        • May 26 2013: Shades of gray...
          Hi. LaMar...

          Someone. long ago, understood what you wrote.
          And today Judges have limits imposed upon them when sentencing.
          Well thought out limits in most cases.

          The acceptance of homosexuality is harder for us oldsters than it
          should be. But like color, we will change and accept the differences.
          Morality improved.

          A bit late for me to get on that bandwagon.
          ===

          I have a Black son-in-law. Wonderful man. Works hard, takes great
          care of my daughter, and is a kind man. I could say more nice things.
          He grew up, adopted into a White family. I don't think he knows what
          color he is. I don't either. Morality improved.

          He had, and has conquered drug addiction, as did my daughter.
          They do not enable one another. It has been many years ago for both.
          I salute them both. Morality improved.
          ===

          My heritage, is Arkansas, through and through.
          I bet my relatives may have boys that still chase their sisters
          (as the jokes go).
          The moderator has my permission to strike this paragraph. LOL
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        • May 27 2013: LaMar,
          I don't think I want to weigh in on this one....
          hahaha I'm splitting a gut.
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          May 26 2013: MMMMMMM.....interesting.......

          "Don Wesley
          2 days ago: Perceptions are often offered as contending arguments, unfortunately.
          Perceptions are too often bubbles that keep us filled with funny information"
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        • May 26 2013: Don and LaMar.
          I'd like to weigh in on this.

          I pose the argument that religion makes no difference.
          Religion merely expresses it's morality, it's code.
          Religion gives followers 'A sturdy wall, it's moral code, to lean upon'.
          Religion comes with conditions, based upon it's code.
          :
          The conditions of western religions, "Believe and Be Saved."
          Otherwise, "Be Damned to Hell".

          Before the "Bible" was written, there were like writings in other societies.
          The Egyptians, Ethiopians, Persians, Chinese, Indians, Islanders, etc..
          Writings and Gods, all closely related in the story telling.

          So guys, believe as you will. And, believe me, you will do exactly that.
          Be moral, and have a direction in your hearts that is beneficial.
          Thank you both for a stimulating conversation or two or more.
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        • May 26 2013: LaMar,
          You nailed it.
          You've won the coveted HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD award.
          ===
          About that Example, the man just needs not to sit on thistles or poison ivy.
          that could be a moral dilemma.
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          May 27 2013: Well I hoped that Link by Dan Ariely explained why people always believe God is on their side.
          I'm yet to see a war where people go "God is on the enemy's side! And we must fight against God!". (:P).
          I'm against viewing God as a "delusion", and I think you are overestimating the negatives of a belief in God. I have many religious friends (in the UK) who are perfectly normal people. Some (many) even more intelligent than me
          (Out of interest (if you don't mind me asking) how long have you been on the TED community. Because it's pretty impressive you have TED Cred score "10" already!)
          Anyhow I'm not altogether sure Christianity is a "shame based religion". I think it just tried to remind you of the fragility of man... (Which is kind of true when you think about it!).
          Regards,
          Bernard.
          Did you read all the link? :-)
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          May 27 2013: WOW! I'm impressed. It's taken me so long to this TED Cred score! :D
          Seems you must have a gift! ;)
          I'v definitely studies "Jim Jones" due to reading the "Lucifer effect".
          "Jesus Christ"? Why do you compare Jesus Christ to Jim Jones? This is very odd.
          Considering Jesus Christ preached about "compassion and forgiveness", while Jim Jones exploited various psychological mechanisms like "Obedience". (As you study in the "Lucifer Effect") Clearly Jim Jones is not worthy of being called a Christian, considering he did not follow the Jesus Christ's messages.
          "anyone that disagrees is of the devil"
          I must disagree with this. As stated, I know many Christian people, who have never claimed that I am "of the devil". I have never heard such absurd claims...
          Maybe only in America? :P
          What's the difference between an "illusion" and a "delusion" then?
          Considering I am agnostic, I do not know whether they suffer from a delusion. However if their beliefs give the hope and they do cause much harm I see no problem. Tolerance is a virtue.
          "Yes I did read the link."
          Did you read the LinkS? (All of them?)
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          May 29 2013: Lamar.
          Are you replying to me (considering I am not getting notifications of these replies!).
          Tolerance within moderation is a virtue. For instance if you tried to steal from me. You die.
          However if you had a difference of opinion from me, with well-thought out opinions, then we debate. If we can not come to a compromise we "agree to disagree" (without being disagreeable).
          I admit religion can cause harm. I have never stated otherwise. I just feel that many portray religion doing more evil than it actually does. Considering most Christians are peace loving, law abiding citizens. It is the "Availability heuristic" which creates this illusion.
          Watch "Atheism 2.0" (http://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_atheism_2_0.html), or read his book "Religion for Atheists" (http://www.alaindebotton.com/religion.asp) to give you an impression of some of the positives of religion.
          Or even watch "RSA Animate - The Truth About Dishonesty" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmJay_qdNc) for some other positives of religion...
          "A delusion is something the person actually believes to be true that does not exist in reality and an illusion is something a person uses to convince others something is true that does not exist in reality."
          However I do not know God does not exist, so how can you be certain they suffer from a delusion? (:P) Read "Am I an agnostic or Atheist" : http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell8.htm
          So then (in your subjective eyes) God is an "illusion + delusion". However I am firm in my belief (I know you never said this) that to declare that religious people are "irrational and have a low IQ" is ignorant in itself.
          I have to admit as stated the atrocities have usually been more political...
          For more information watch "The Crusades - Pilgrimage or Holy War?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0zudTQelzI)
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          May 29 2013: Oh dear...
          "It won't work and Don knows I am correct and so do you!"
          He really doesn't. Insulting people is no method of persuasion! ("rescue of Don" You could frame this in so many ways...)
          You should know better.
          Also you are (unconsciously) negatively stereotyping "religious" people, which will influence how you deal with their opinions.
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