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Theo Katotikidis

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Veganism

This topic is certainly up for debate, but is more an answer to those that proposed that there is no such thing as veganism due to the fact that all plant matter, and fungi have some form of dead or decayed animal matter within, or on the organism. My response to this is: veganism is not about eating dead animal matter within or on the plant form itself; thus, it is about ethics. One should ask themselves, "where does my meat come from?" Then go online and find out what they do within the slaughter houses. If one can't bear to watch it, then how can on consume the meat that comes from the "house of slaughter"? If you would like more information understanding veganism, watch Gary Yourofsky's video on Youtube. You will definitely have second thoughts towards eating meat, dairy and eggs. He is quite informative; a great speaker, and well informed.

Sincerely,

A fellow Vegan

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Closing Statement from Theo Katotikidis

I would like to thank everyone for their opinions or statements. I would have liked to hear more from some vegans or vegetarians, but I guess it was luck of the draw depending on who would have noticed this conversation.

I would like to thank Adesh Saxena and Kelwalin Dhanasarnsombut for their views on Buddhism. You have enlightened and educated me on the different forms of Buddhism. Your comments gave me the motivation to research it throughout the day :)

Lastly, I would like to thank Lamar Alexander. You put up quite a fight, even though I had no hatred towards "omnivorous human beings". You helped me remember the old me and what I fought for. I appreciate your comments/opinions on this topic and hope you will be back for more some time soon! ;)

Take care everyone!

Theo

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  • May 21 2013: I have maintained for a long time that if you eat meat, kill it...at least once. That way, you involve yourself in the gravity/sacredness of your food sources. At the very least, you will confront a part of yourself that needs recognition...what you are willing to do for food/survival, even if you are 'vegan.' I would imagine that even the staunchest 'vegan' would resort to eating meat when faced with death by starvation. The same could be said of killing plants for food, but somehow it seems better and more acceptable than killing an animal. Which brings me to another point: Aren't plants also living beings? Don't they also deserve the same kind of reverence that we give to animals? I understand the emotional response of not wanting to eat something that more closely resembles your own species (and condone vegetarianism on that basis), but let's not confuse that with with the larger issue of snuffing out the spark of life, The fact is, we occupy a place on the food chain that necessitates taking life, whether it is vegetable or animal. If there is an ethical question here, it does not concern what eat, as much as it involves the whimsy with which we treat ALL of our food sources.
    • May 21 2013: Being defined: conscious, mortal existence of life. Emphasis on conscious. To each their own.

      Please, explain to me how these plants feel about this situation? How about we make a deal: you watch how your meat is treated at a slaughter house, and I will go watch a strawberry harvest. We will see which one feels the most.

      Thanks for your opinion Mr. Meyer. Much appreciated!

      Theo
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        • May 21 2013: Please, let us now be serious. I would like you to ask anyone if plants have feelings and ask the plants how they feel when we eat then, and I bet those people will think you are crazy and the plants will not respond.

          Secondly, I absolutely DO NOT own anything made of animal products. Not even toothpaste or lotions, etc. This is part of being vegan.

          If you didn't feel guilty about any of this, you would stop wasting your time making illogical excuses on why everything vegan is wrong.
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        • May 21 2013: No I was not always a vegan. I have been a vegan for many years. Like everyone else, I was raised to eat meat. Just like our parents were raised to eat meat, and our grandparents. Do you see the trend? We are forced to eat meat, we are never given a choice. Just like religion, we are practically forced to believe in what our parents believe in, because that is all we see.

          You are right. I saw the video's and felt the guilt, but that was not the only reason I became a vegan. After the guilt came the extensive research, and I realized that we were never meant to eat meat.

          I have emptied my house from animal products such as leather, wool, etc. I can assure you, I am a true vegan. :)
      • May 21 2013: Like I said, I condone vegetarianism on emotional grounds, and I understand your feeling of sympathy towards animals in slaughterhouses, the treatment of which I, too, think is abhorrent. Like any human being, I have my emotional limits, and my behavior and habits (in this case, my eating habits) are a good litmus test of where those limits lay. Who knows? Maybe I'm a vegetarian...

        Regarding consciousness: what exactly is it and why does it matter in this argument? I mean, if a cow was born without a brain, I am sure you still would not eat it, even though it didn't have consciousness. Why?

        And aside from how you may answer those questions, are you so proud of the fact of your consciousness that you will treat as inferior all life that does not possess it, whatever it is? My belief is that we are not superior to anything because we are a part of everything. So, to clarify, the main point of my post was to encourage people to treat everything with reverence, not only things with some semblance of consciousness.

        I think it is obvious that the emotional and moral questions need to be more clearly defined here. As far as I can tell, the moral issue centers on how respectfully we treat everything in our world...including strawberries. Maybe you also have reservations about growing and eating strawberries that have been modified with a pork gene? I will hazard a guess and say that you do...again, I ask why? Perhaps tinkering with nature in this way hints at our hubris? What does this say about our respect for the natural order of things? I think slaughterhouses are also a telltale sign.

        I think that until we have an unambiguous moral imperative for our natural world, the slaughterhouses you deplore will continue...

        Thanks for the reply. All the best...strawberries, that is. lol
        Karl
        • May 21 2013: Fortunately, we have not altered plant genes with animal genes as of yet. :) I agree with the slaughterhouse opinion as well. They will continue, thus we must do something about it; one person at a time. It will take a long while, but there is evidence that it is affecting the meat industry world wide. Sales for meat has dropped, and these large companies are getting quite angry, especially the milk industry.

          Thanks, again Karl!

          Theo
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    May 21 2013: Your thinking influences what you eat and
    Eating influnces what you think.
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    May 21 2013: Geeta describes three types of food according to the nature of a person
    Rajsic ( King, wealthy and Powerful people)..They eat for taste and vitality
    Tamsic(Beggars, drukards , edicts) Eat dead and decaying matters
    Satvic (Sages, ascetics) ..pure Vegans , they do not eat for taste, they eat as it is a neccessity like breathing air.
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    May 21 2013: .
    .
    Our instincts control our health.

    Instinctively, we taste raw:
    (1) Vegetables good,
    (2) Meats bad.

    So, vegan's health has to be good.
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    • May 20 2013: The whole point with the ethics issue is that there is no true ethical way to slaughter an animal. In your case with the Big Mac, it is not a realistic example, because a situation such as that would never occur, so this is obviously the ONLY case you can come up with to try and make me look wrong. You should really take a look at Gary Yourofsky's video. It will explain everything, and I have researched everything he has said, and it is all true. By the way, the omnivour statement is completely false. We needed omega 3's and fatty acids to evolve from neanderthals to homo sapiens. They helped our brains evolve to what they are now. After that evolution we gained knowledge in harvesting and finding foods (i.e. vegetables and fruits) that contain all the omega 3's, fatty acids, and nutrients to sustain us completely; therefore, we do not need meat. We truly never needed it, but the neanderthal was not intelligent enough to harvest or understand these facts. Also, gorillas have larger canines than we do, yet they are herbivours. Almost EVERY herbivour has canine teeth! Therefore, your statement is invalid.
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        • May 21 2013: I respect your challenge. I do understand what you are saying, and of course you would survive, but that is because that is the only way to eat there IF you lived like the Native peoples. Most people in Alaskan cities have the luxury of going to a grocery store and buying their veggies.

          Look, I do not lack any understanding about anything you have touched upon, and this debate can go on forever; like a debate in religion. I do have one challenge for you though. If you do have a carnivorous side to you then I need you to do something for me. Go outside and kill the first animal you see with your teeth. You can not use any tools, because carnivours do not kill their prey with tools, then eat the whole thing without cooking it, because carnivours do not do this either. Neither do omnivorous animals in our animal kingdom.

          I have read your profile, I respect you and your views. I noticed it states you want to help with environmental issues. A huge way of doing this would be to try being vegan. The meat industry creates more pollution than any other industry on this planet. Just a suggestion.

          Mr. Alexander, it was a great debate, but as I wrote earlier, this debate can last forever just like a religious debate.

          Take care,
          Theo
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    May 20 2013: Why Buddhists don't eat meat, was my 8 year old kid's question few months back. Tried to answer him with the thoughts behind, his next question was " don't they know that plants also are live ?

    I am neither in favor nor against vegaism. Can you please suggest what should be a good answer to such question ?
    • May 21 2013: Well you can explain to your child by stating that an animal can feel. They have all the same senses as a human being does. The word "being" beside human being is not one sentence. A being is a life on this planet, thus animals are also beings. They feel, see, smell, hear, and taste; we do the same. A plant is a living organism, but is does not feel, see, smell, taste or hear, thus it does not "know" what is happening.

      When a child is young, they love animals. They never wish harm on any animal. We are born "pure" towards other beings and we do not know specieism (prejudice towards other animal beings). Buddhist's also believe in treating all beings equal, thus they only eat plant matter.

      Watch Gary Yourofsky's video. It will change you. I was a vegan way before I saw his video, but it is the best way to explain veganism. Please, do not let your child watch it due to the graphic video's and random swear words he uses in the heat of the moment.

      I hope this helps!

      Theo
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      May 21 2013: Buddhists do not eat meat? I'm surprise! I'm Buddhist, and I do eat beef, pork, chicken, fish, seafood, etc. Only I do not really eat beef so frequently cause I don't like it. Although having said this, My diet is based on veg and seafood though. It's nothing to do with my religious practice.

      May be you're talking about east-Asian buddhist (Mahayana) which are more popular in China, Japan, Taiwan, etc. My aunties are. They do not eat beef for the rest of their lives, but still have pork and seafood. Ever year, for whole 10-12 days, they will practice veganism. That's what religious suggestion (only who's very strict to this will do it; It's optional. Some believers do this for the rest of their lives.). I always do this with my family though. It's good for your health, and at least once a year, be concerned about lives that lost so we can live. This would make one realise that we should only eat to survive; not survive to eat. To value all lives and know that live shouldn't be taken without any good course.
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        May 21 2013: Understand your point.
        Well in my country we have a small population of Buddhists many of which are strict veg eater and many are not.
        I lived in Sri Lanka , population of which are predominantly Buddhist are veg eater , though there some who are not that strict about their eating habit.
        Religious beliefs evolves differently in different cultures that's very usual. So in our culture it is established that Buddhist are vegetarian. Once in Sri Lanka my kids (then 9 & 7 years) spotted two monks in one of the fast food shop there who sells chicken , immediately asked me why the Buddhist Monks are in chicken shop ?

        They ask such question because of the knowledge the earned from culture and common belief around.
      • May 21 2013: Thank you. I was not well informed on Buddhism. I appreciate the response!