Thaddea Thompson

This conversation is closed.

Does god only exist in the extaordinary?

We seem to say that when something unusual happens we say that it is of God. Is he not in our everyday lives? I think in this way we are defining where God is and where God isn't. Am I wrong to say that this would be a way of limiting God and where and how he works?

Closing Statement from Thaddea Thompson

thank all who've responded to my question.I think that I started this question with the majority of people in mind.

  • May 15 2013: Absolutely God is in our daily lives. Those who say otherwise just don't know Him well enough yet.
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      May 17 2013: "those who say otherwise" I think that's putting a generalization on someone who does not hold supernatural beliefs. "don't know him well enough" and you do? If so tell me how to get there.
      • May 18 2013: Self Inquiry.......though there is no there to get to. No path
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          May 21 2013: may i ask what are your current beliefs ( not necessarily of a higher being)?
      • May 20 2013: Ok. It's not that hard. God actually exists. He's not an abstract concept. It's possible to communicate with Him in an entirely two-way manner. All that is required is a sincere desire to know if He's there or not and an open mind. (The open mind is important, because if you're too set in your ways confirmation bias kicks in and you'll just be talking to yourself.) Ask Him questions as if He were in the room with you, and then wait and listen. Most often God talks to us using a combination of feelings and thoughts that seem to just pop out of nowhere. They're recognizably not from you. Your doubts go away and many people feel this warm, loving, undeniable presence. Describing these experiences is kind of like explaining the taste of salt, though, just my words definitely don't do it justice. But this need not be rare, fantastic, or weird. Once you get used to how He talks to you, it's quite possible to start up a frequent relationship with Him. I love it. It's one of the central pillars of my life.
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          May 21 2013: scott i've pryaed to God asking him to give me a reason( pink) to believe because i want to believe.
  • May 16 2013: Allah --High and Sublime is He-- said:
    (هَلْ أَتَى عَلَى الْإِنْسَانِ حِينٌ مِنَ الدَّهْرِ لَمْ يَكُنْ شَيْئًا مَذْكُورًا (الإنسان:1)
    (76:1) Has there not been over man a period of time, when he was not a thing worth mentioning? Moreover, in the Holy Quran, Allah --High is He-- says, while addressing Zakaraya:
    ( وَقَدْ خَلَقْتُكَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلَمْ تَكُ شَيْئًا (مريم:9 ...)
    (19:9) ... Certainly I have created you before, when you had been nothing!"
    [Quran 7.54] And your Lord, Allah, who created the Heavens and the Earth in six days and then settled on the Throne.. [Quran 41.9] Say: "Is it that you deny Him [Allah] who created the Earth in two days?[Quran 22.47] They challenge you to bring forth that torture [in Hell] and Allah will not break His promise; a day of your Lord [Paradise/Hell promise] is like a thousand years of what you count .[Quran 15.13-16] They do not believe the Message, like those who preceded them; 14 Even if We [Allah] opened upon them from the heaven a door and they continued passing through it 15 they would say ‘Our sight is bedazzled, rather we have been bewitched’ 16 It is We [Allah] who have made towering structures in the heavens and made them beautiful for beholders. 17 And We protected them from every evil spirit accursed. [Quran 21.104] On the day when We will fold the heaven, like the folder compacts the books, and as We originated the first creation We shall return it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will deliver. [Quran 51.47] And the heaven, We built it with craftsmanship and We are still expanding.(in its form it is ongoing process) [Quran 14.48] On the day when Earth will be swapped by another Earth and so will be the heavens; and all (creatures) will resurrect before the One Dominant God. [Quran 36.81] Is He not, Who created the heavens and the Earth, capable of creating others like them? also read verse (signs) 3 and 4 of chapter 67 (for those who understand)
  • May 16 2013: To Know God is to Be God.....If "you" aint God, then that "you" does not Know God. The "more" one "knows" of God, the less and less One Is, and the more and more God Is. It's a pity the word God is so limiting and heavily conditioned in our minds.

    Coincidence is the norm. It's the ability to perceive that jacks things up.
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    May 29 2013: As to my last post here: The Four Postulates of God, I think I've got the reference. Both Bertrand Russell and Kurt Godel said things like this that sounded more theological than either based in mathematics or physics. So there you have that.

    The reason this is important is simple. As people we live in the world and we influence the world. On the other hand, we are separate from the world because we only experience it through our senses. And our senses are incomplete. There is more going on in the world than we are able to sense and feel directly.

    But there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that we are programmed by nature (our DNA & our experience) to both seek out a greater consciousness; and to believe in that greater consciousness. In other words, we are programmed to believe in God(s). And that's really cool. NOT because God does or does not exist. That is not a question I know how to answer. But I believe that all the things we associate with God have meaning in our lives and gives us additional insight into how to live live and be successful.

    Sure, some say that you'd might as well believe in faeries as believe in God. And I have no argument to refute that. But mankind as a species has 4000+ years invested in working on this "God" thing. And that much has always been bound up in civilization and faith and education and all the things that go with it. There's a lot there. Is it really worthwhile to ignore 4000 years of human history and experience just to validate my own theories & academic skepticism? I doubt it. I'll just work on changing things, starting with the way things are, today!
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    May 29 2013: Does anybody on this conversation know what Christian Theologian said this:

    The Four (4) Postulates of God:

    1. No supernatural phenomena will ever be discovered or validated by science.

    2. There will always be more that is unknown than known.

    3. Our initial experience at birth includes elements of both the Unknown & Faith. And that comes from a newborn infant's primal scream(s) of both unmet need(s) and total helplessness.

    4. Religion is the original DNA of Civilization. The goal is to minimize the screaming by maximizing the needs met. And religion is the original record of how that was done!

    I found this in some old notes I have kept, but there is nothing that references where the statements originated. I have the name of the course and the professor who taught it, but the professor passed away some years ago. And that particular course is no longer taught in the Faculty of Religion and Philosophy. In fact, there is no more Faculty of Religion and Philosophy. It is now the Department of Religion and the Department of Philosophy (two departments) and both are under the Faculty of Hermeneutics, which I think is at the Institute of Ethics at the La Escuela de Medicne
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    May 28 2013: Do you really mean "god" or do you mean "gods?"
    Most human cultures, including modern Hindus, have believed in many gods. Why wouldn't that be at least as likely as only one god? It seems that defining god as only one is very limiting.

    Yes, I know that certain revered storybooks from long ago speak of one god, but those are hardly authoritative. In most cases we can't even identify the authors, nor where they got their information. If those books were just published this year, rather than being ancient, I doubt if anyone would believe in them. Well, I take that back - someone would.
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    May 17 2013: That's right. But God comes from a time when everything was extraordinay. Lightning, wind, sunlight, fire, you name it.
    In the meantime people have come up with rationnal explanations and turned the extraordinary into the ordinary. There is little magic left, yet people have a hard time facing that. Children, particularly.
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      May 17 2013: little magic left?
      Are you implying that God is in a sense "running out"?
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        May 17 2013: Yeah. What's disapointing is that God used to fill gaps that were the UNKNOWN. Now the gaps are the MISUNDERSTOOD. Take quantum mechanics or evolution, for instance.
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        May 22 2013: People didn't know how the solar system operated, so they made up stories about it. Today people with no scientific background don't understand most of science, so they are tempted to make up stories about them.
        Bad explanations of good explanations. Quantum physics do not have anything to do with consciousness, love life, tofu, yet check out the results you get in Amazon with the entry "quantum".
        • May 23 2013: If your belief (which is the belief in no creator , the Creator , not false gods as eternal universes , or some taken false god in our minds that travels through the universe . If your belief would be rational that well we rethink our thinking because we are lucky , the bee designs its cells hexagon shaped out of efficiency is luck , then why not believing in r2d2 growing consiousness and feeding the poor . How would r2d2 show his emotions ? Do you have any idea? In our imagination , perhaps he would flash a red light if being sadd? But that is incorrect . How would r2d2 himself evolve by luck into expressing sad emotions or caring about other beings ? As for myself I have a cat at home and I as a homo sapien am also studying the cat , how it takes care of its kittens etc. My new study is studying atheists , I understand the behaviour of animals , but not the understanding of the belief of atheists . So tell me when will r2d2 become a consious being . I mean the singularity was infinate small and still look today how big it is! that happened right? That is not extraoordinary to you ? hmm then tell me when will r2d2 become a consious being, compared to that(singularity of the universe at the beginning ) it is very possible isnt it ? Do you atheists also have a bible which contradicts reality? please do not hijack science your belief keeps changing . The universe has a beginning .
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          May 23 2013: Gerald,
          excuse me but I should have made my question more clear.
          What are the gaps that you are referring to, God or science?
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        May 23 2013: People are lazy, so they don't bother to try and understand what is generally understood, and want to believe the universe cares about them.
        Hence, even though a supernatural origin or mechanism of the world is a completely ridiculous thought today, people hang on to it.
    • May 23 2013: the singularity (big bang) is extraordinary why do people say mindboggling? Which rational explanation is the explanation that it popped into existence from nothing . Well I agree Allah is the Oriiginator of the heavens , so yes it was created once from nothing , just as you where created before out of nothing and were not a thing worthy of mentioning in time . Why should we believe in possibilities rather than intelligence behind creation ? In the past people worshipped the sun thinking it was eternal , today we know better , what makes you different in believing the creation(the universe) is eternal? or insisting that it is ? Where is teh rationality of atheists ? why do you hijack sscience if your belief goes against it? Can you show me all steps of evolution in a lab? naked cell , rna , memmory , reproducing then LIFE ITSELF? what about from non living to someting living? doesn't that require a leap of faith just as the singularity which is one of the attributes of Allah does require a leap of faith? As for the atheist knowing what is good and bad that is something given to mankind in order that they may find the good path , many CHOOSE to take the path which will guide mankind to doom . Free will , we do not act the same in certain situations we are not wildebeests . But from your perspective we are lucky , not guided evolution by the Creator but luck . Same with the universe at the beginning if it was not precisely measured it would collapse , to you nature was lucky , rethinking our thinking is also luck , everything is luck or an accident . if that is the case why do atheists bother talking about these subjects ?Why 'wasting'time on these subjects or insisting people to become robots and giving money as charity , or a friendly smile as charity to somebody who is depressed? From your point of view this is because our genes are controling us which is not correct .
  • May 16 2013: as for Allah it is very clear that nothing is comparable unto Him . And scholars always said anything that you imagine in the mind is not Allah . We imagine something with a form containg some substance or it containing a space) that is not Allah . Allah is outside space.time and matter. Allah is the Creator not creation .
  • May 16 2013: [Quran 67.3-4] [Allah] is the one who created seven superimposed Heavens (سبع سموات طباق). You do not see variations in the formations of the Compassionate, so redirect your sight, do you see any creation? (Futtur in Arabic) 4 Then redirect your sight again, your vision returns to you in defeat and regret.

    [Quran 32.5] (Allah) Rules the cosmic affair (Yudaber Al-Amr in Arabic) from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count. [Quran 6.108] Do not curse those who call (to worship) other than Allah, so that they don't curse Allah out of spite and ignorance. This is how We [Allah] appealed to each people its own actions; then they will be brought back to their Lord [Allah] who will inform them of what they have been doing.

    [Quran 51.7] And the heaven full of paths /containg paths (Hubuk in Arabic) means paths and it was asked what are these paths look like? The arabic word itself gives an explanation when I read tafseer it is said paths which are left behind after the wind blows over sanddunes or water , the word also clearly refers to weaved or curly when hair is involved . I have good reasons to belief in the creator the one/unique Creator oitside space/time as it is clear in quran . Creator of time is not part of time or space/time and matter. When Allah says Be and it is it does not mean necesarrily in one instant also very clear is the meaning of day in arabic language which is very clear .The six days are not mentioned as 24 hours a day , in one narration of prophet muhammad(puh) he describes a happening which will occure on earth in the future , it will last 7 days of which the frst day will be as one year that we count . The other days are months and some of the seven are like the days as we know them . salam aleikom . I thank Allah for preserving the quran . Allah say the quran is in arabic in order for you to understand. translations lose their meaning
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      May 17 2013: Please do not just quote the Quran without telling me your understanding of it. (i don't mean generally, but each text. pick one and let's talk.)
      • May 17 2013: . Thank you for your comment . I will be honest to you . I am no expert in quran but some verses indeed are a sign. My intention is not to say well look at te verses they are scientific. As for science I am carefull , if we would see science as a religion it would contain many disrepencies, actually Allah says in the quran that if the quran was not from someone besides of Allah surely it would contain many contradictions . I quoted the verses or ayaats which means signs in arabic, with the intention that maybe you yourself will take the verses and go investigate the quran yourself. La ilaha ila Allah means there are no gods exept Allah (the ''God'') we prefer saying Allah rather than the word God , because the word God can be changed , things in nature change in creation but the Creator does not change . We can not atribute to Hikm creation that is very clear in the quran . I advise you or I guess you are smart enough , that when or IF you read the quran and certain things are mentioned wait till you finish the quran . When the heavens are mentioned take all the verses which speak about this and compare them . I myself am still learning I am not there yet but I picked these verses because I believe there are signs in them . Allah does not end verses with for those who UNDERSTAND . So I guess people of understanding will appreciate the message of the quran . Ok enough said lol let me pick the first one (76:1) Has there not been over man a period of time, when he was not a thing worth mentioning? It is clear in the context that it refers to a long period before we were mentioned. The big bang (singularity I prefer to call it ) was mentioned, the electron as well , sun , earth , flowers mammals, and mankind arrived quite late . Do you agree with this ? Thank you for you being open minded rather than someone who is closeminded and still believes to be scientific.
      • May 17 2013: an error in my typing . "Do they not attentively consider the Quran? If it had been from any besides Allah, they would certainly have found therein many contradictions." (Sura 4:82, This is better
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          May 21 2013: why do you think that the writer would say this? would the writer have been trying to portray Allah in a certain way?
      • May 21 2013: why do you think Allah mentiones that if it was from anyone besides Himself it would contain many contradictions ? I think it is because we are limitted in knowledge . We make mistakes . One example is the bible , the christians themselves allready accepted the contradictions .Sometimes the 4 gospels contradict mathematically and one prophecy is a fase one (not by jesus himself) , the prophecy that the stars would fall donw and that some people in the genration of jesus (puh) would witness the end of the world . There are good teachings in christianity but the bible is not the word of the Creator . The Creator does not show himself , in islam that is not possible because Allah is the Creator He does not show himself in creation , the heavens and the earth , to us they are mindboggling but to Allah the Creator , Most High it is nothing but a ''hand'full or just a grain . The prophet (puh) if the hadieth is an authentic one he described the different levels of universe or universes one above the other / that the lowest one compared to the one above iis like a ring in a desert , the second the same compared to the third one . The message of the quran is how Allah communicates with us mankind . he created us and the djinnkind (a creature made out of a flame of fire ) animals are made of water in quran so that we worship Him . Worshipping in islam is not only praying 5 times a day and walking counter clockwise round the kaaba , but also contributing to society in a good way . Medicine for example and coming with a solution for financial crisis . In islam interest is not allowed , we mankind love interest but as we understand from islam Allah knows better than us what is good for us . He created us . I would say the quran does not force you to believe , rather it says isnt this message from the Creator , if not there is also a challenge . Most people who love to read say it is like it is speaking to you . I guess it is up to you to experience that .
  • May 16 2013: Don't know " HER" well enough.